Pace Out?

[bobinho]

Pace in. Most definitely pace in.

I’m of the opinion it’s probably better for us to wait for him to fail drastically before calling for his head.

Not done an awful lot wrong for me.

[warksclaret]

Hardly Pace’s fault . We all know we needed a CM pretty desperately, we tried hard it failed ,but we’ve strengthened ,kept Tarky ,and I firmly believe IF we can keep the likes of Cornet /WW/Taylor fit we’ve a great chance of staying up . I also think with a bit of real quality upfront the likes of Roberts and Lennon can attack from the right .

Which CM's did we try to buy

[Gordaleman]

Which CM's did we try to buy

He doesn't know, but neither do you. Unless that is, you're a member of the Burnley FC Board and somehow, I doubt that.

(It could have been ten, but I'm not privy to the board's discussions either.)

All I know is that Orsic has made it clear that we had an agreement with Zagreb and he, Orsic, changed his mind. How is that Pace's fault? Whether various CMs did the same, no one knows. Not even you.

[ClaretMov]

In my view Orsic used us to get a nice fat pay rise at his club

[Gordaleman]

In my view Orsic used us to get a nice fat pay rise at his club

That's totally irrelevant to the position Burnley found themselves in. However, if it was about money, he would have got a lot more here.

[ClaretMov]

That's totally irrelevant to the position Burnley found themselves in. However, if it was about money, he would have got a lot more here.

I personally think he always wanted to stay with his home town team, and used us to get more money out of them, yes he could of got more here but did he really want to up sticks for him it's a win win, but we will never know

[Downhamclaret]

Pace in for now.not been a big fan of any of our chairman's since the Bob lord days .frank teasdale was probably the best .the rest of them have been on the make.utc

[Dark Cloud]

Pace in as I really do like the guy and I genuinely think he went the extra mile this January to try to get more quality bodies in. However, he failed in most cases, so genuinely nice guy or not, he's on borrowed time with me right now.

[beddie]

Pace in for now.not been a big fan of any of our chairman's since the Bob lord days .frank teasdale was probably the best .the rest of them have been on the make.utc

“Teasdale was probably the best” I think you’re forgetting the good work a certain certain Mr Kilby did.

[DCWat]

Far too early for these sort of reactions.

However, I don’t expect to hear more rehashed excuses of previous failed windows. I’d like to hear an acceptance of the problems and have confidence that there’s a plan to move forward with.

There have been a few pluses in his first 12 months but there remain some serious concerns. He has a real job on to get everyone aligned as we were when Dyche settled into his role.

Another poor window, when much better was needed, has done him few favours. This on the back of increasing, less than positive, press coverage of the takeover / finances.

Dyche’s contract was a plus although I can see conflict ahead, if Dyche and Pace have different views, which perhaps have hindered our recruitment? We took something of a step forward in the summer and two back in January!

Aside from this, and a few flashy screens, I probably expected a bit more after twelve months, the next twelve could be make or break!!

[warksclaret]

My career enabled me to see a lot of senior staff join where I was working. Many were very impressive on arrival, said the right things but as they became challenged some proved to be real tossers and out of their depth.The acid test was they were forgotton within several weeks of being fired. For me you need time and results to judge people. The bottom line in this window for me is YES we bought a striker but imagine the backlash had we not used any of the Wood money, and maybe some guilt of selling Wood. YES AP flew to Croatia to persuade Orsic to join BFC. Firstly why is the owner of the club doing this-does he not trust anyone else, and the bottom line is he failed . Secondly there is no evidence of signing anyone in the next 3 days after Orsic had said no. For me the jurys out I'm afraid

[ClaretDiver]

My career enabled me to see a lot of senior staff join where I was working. Many were very impressive on arrival, said the right things but as they became challenged some proved to be real tossers and out of their depth.The acid test was they were forgotton within several weeks of being fired. For me you need time and results to judge people. The bottom line in this window for me is YES we bought a striker but imagine the backlash had we not used any of the Wood money, and maybe some guilt of selling Wood. YES AP flew to Croatia to persuade Orsic to join BFC. Firstly why is the owner of the club doing this-does he not trust anyone else, and the bottom line is he failed . Secondly there is no evidence of signing anyone in the next 3 days after Orsic had said no. For me the jurys out I'm afraid

I don't think it is a case of Pace not trusting anyone, I think it is more down to a culture of wanting to show he is invested in potential players. Regarding the days following Orsic saying no.....who says the club weren't trying to sign anyone.....

[mybloodisclaret]

Pace in. I like him, he has made 4 very good signings in 2 window's. Yes we needed more no doubt he knew it also. The stadium is improving, the squad is improving. Give him time. A united approach always works better than a fractured one.

[RVclaret]

Brilliant gesture by Pace to create the student ticket initiative as well as give away 1000 tickets to schools.

He’ll be as gutted and disappointed as anyone that we didn’t bring more in. I’m sure he had been working around the clock in efforts to add but as mentioned previously, attracting players isn’t really his job. With us being 20th, low scorers and not a ‘media darling’ it definitely makes life trickier.

I like how hands on he is, walking around the ground before matches, talking to fans, being open to chat when he’s out walking on Pendle Hill. There’s not many owners who are that approachable, especially when fans have doubts over the buyout.

I have faith.

[mybloodisclaret]

My career enabled me to see a lot of senior staff join where I was working. Many were very impressive on arrival, said the right things but as they became challenged some proved to be real tossers and out of their depth.The acid test was they were forgotton within several weeks of being fired. For me you need time and results to judge people. The bottom line in this window for me is YES we bought a striker but imagine the backlash had we not used any of the Wood money, and maybe some guilt of selling Wood. YES AP flew to Croatia to persuade Orsic to join BFC. Firstly why is the owner of the club doing this-does he not trust anyone else, and the bottom line is he failed . Secondly there is no evidence of signing anyone in the next 3 days after Orsic had said no. For me the jurys out I'm afraid

Hi Warks,

It would appear now with the signing of a more lucrative deal that his apparent interest was merely somewhat convenient, and perhaps we have been played.

I think the Chairman flew out to show leadership, he wanted the player, Dyche wanted the player and he believed we were close and could perhaps close the deal in person. When it became apparent that we were being played AP jumped on the aircraft and bugged out of Croatia. That's my take on it anyway. Fair play to him, although it is a real shame that we didn't get more additions in, I genuinely don't think it was for a lack of trying.

[California Colner]

Do people start threads like this just to wind every one up?
I hope CT removes it

[warksclaret]

I don't think it is a case of Pace not trusting anyone, I think it is more down to a culture of wanting to show he is invested in potential players. Regarding the days following Orsic saying no.....who says the club weren't trying to sign anyone.....

Sorry Claret Diver there is no one on this board going to convince me otherwise. There was no plan and no real effort in the last three days. We are in the depths of relegation, had the money from the Wood sale, and my instincts tell me very little was done to pursue a signing or a loan . My instincts are rarely wrong. They should have had targets for the positions in question which have been obvious since the first defeat of the season

[warksclaret]

Hi Warks,

It would appear now with the signing of a more lucrative deal that his apparent interest was merely somewhat convenient, and perhaps we have been played.

I think the Chairman flew out to show leadership, he wanted the player, Dyche wanted the player and he believed we were close and could perhaps close the deal in person. When it became apparent that we were being played AP jumped on the aircraft and bugged out of Croatia. That's my take on it anyway. Fair play to him, although it is a real shame that we didn't get more additions in, I genuinely don't think it was for a lack of trying.

Fair play indeed Myblood, but I saw very little evidence of anything being done in the last 3 days to secure key players to strenthen our team. There was obviously no plan, and no list of targets. Sadly it does not surprise me

[houseboy]

Alexa - show me a thread on my favourite football team forum that is a reason why I don't frequent it as much as I used to...

I’m beginning to think this site contains maybe the worst aspect of our support. I’m considering another break from it because I’m disgusted by so many on here who seem to want us to fail just so they can be right. I’m saddened by all this bile from people who save zero knowledge of running a football club. It is actually darkly hilarious how many ‘experts’ there are on here, not to mention those with magical inside information. If you think our transfer window was depressing some should take a look at their own posts. Reading on this site just now is approaching masochistic.

[Wokingclaret]

Time will tell if we get relegated, after, will be the big test for Pace and ALK

[bodge]

You're not on your own houseboy, it's a misery fest isn't it.

It's supposed to be our passion, an escape from the day to day drudgery and the corporate cliches and then you hear utter nonsense like "my instincts are rarely wrong" whilst peddling the doomsday scenarios on a very regular basis.

[mybloodisclaret]

Fair play indeed Myblood, but I saw very little evidence of anything being done in the last 3 days to secure key players to strenthen our team. There was obviously no plan, and no list of targets. Sadly it does not surprise me

Without wanting to disagree too much, I suspect Orsic had probably been moving along for a few weeks. We were given encouragement by the player and agent however there was perhaps a different narrative? Who knows? There are only very limited parties who would know.

In so far as other signings, I believe we tried and pushed for a few, but it was probably too late in the day. We must improve on this. Buying a top flight footballer is not like buying a car, you can't pop into dealership, agree a price and reserve it.

I think we will always face this challenge in windows, we can agree fees and have a plan around wages, but that is when I suspect some other parties get involved to gazump us. Clubs with more money, clubs that are a bigger attraction or of course we could face their current club giving them a large loyalty bonus new contract.

I really think the club wanted at least another two players in, but it is what it is. I think everyone associated wanted more, but we have to go with what we have got.

[Jakubclaret]

I’m beginning to think this site contains maybe the worst aspect of our support. I’m considering another break from it because I’m disgusted by so many on here who seem to want us to fail just so they can be right. I’m saddened by all this bile from people who save zero knowledge of running a football club. It is actually darkly hilarious how many ‘experts’ there are on here, not to mention those with magical inside information. If you think our transfer window was depressing some should take a look at their own posts. Reading on this site just now is approaching masochistic.

Just chill out & relax, far too many people take this board far too seriously, people are obviously disappointed by preventable problems it’s nothing to do with hoping the club fail to be proved right it's exactly the opposite people want the club to do well & to be proven wrong, on this board it’s actually got to the stage where reality is discouraged & mistakenly confused with negativity with people just raising serious concerns about the long term health of the club.

[Gazclaret83]

Everyone said give them time. I have. The club is a mess. Our squad is a joke. Any team that has Aaron Lennon as 1st team regular deserves to be relegated.

No more BS Pace. No more.

Burnley 3 Watford 0 believe

[Quicknick]

Stupid thread.

[Damo]

I would like pace to agree to speak to Simon Jordan, I don’t understand why he won’t.

Perhaps Pace has spoken to volunteer councillors like Jordan in the past and now knows they talk absolute ********, and just give really bad advice and crow about it on football messageboards

[Jakubclaret]

Perhaps Pace has spoken to volunteer councillors like Jordan in the past and now knows they talk absolute ********, and just give really bad advice and crow about it on football messageboards

Like I say you’ll get lord lucan on there before pace.

[clarethomer]

Just chill out & relax, far too many people take this board far too seriously, people are obviously disappointed by preventable problems it’s nothing to do with hoping the club fail to be proved right it's exactly the opposite people want the club to do well & to be proven wrong, on this board it’s actually got to the stage where reality is discouraged & mistakenly confused with negativity with people just raising serious concerns about the long term health of the club.

When you accept that what you describe as ‘reality’ is an individual perception of reality, then you would soon realise that your reality may make sense to you but doesn’t make sense to others who have a different perception of what is going on.

Having a Pace out thread in my reality is nothing but ridiculous.

I accept that others may feel overwhelmingly against him though and that’s fine.

When you quote things like long term health of the club is why your concerned, I would ask that you consider what you actually mean by that and what actual facts that you have that make these concerns something to you?

If it’s just based on stuff written by media outlets and said by people who are paid to generate attention for who pays them- then that’s fine but that to me doesn’t make it a reality in truth.

If you genuinely want to believe that things have been preventable then again that’s fine but have you considered what else could have happened if your initial conclusion was wrong?

Very few issues are black and white and it’s the failure to recognise the complexity of what goes on is what makes these things difficult to discuss/understand but as soon as you realise that your reality may be a version of a potential reality, the sooner you will see that you can’t conclude these issues with such certainty.

[TheFamilyCat]

Like I say you’ll get lord lucan on there before pace.

You have a weird infatuation with Simon Jordan.

[Top Claret]

Rome wasn't built in a day and Pace needs to be given time to put right the mess Garlick left.

Pace as signed 4 quality players in his 1st two transfer windows more than Garlick did in years of playing the club for his own benifit.

[CrosspoolClarets]

We have entered a cultural generation where many small minded types want resignations for minor issues (or non issues) and / or want people to go before they have actually had a chance to fail.

All it means is that nobody of quality would ever want those roles.

I would urge people to look at the “sliding doors” alternative, i.e. either Garlick’s bunch remaining (almost certainly no Cornet, Collins or Roberts) or that Egyptian chap fronting a takeover (I’m very happy with ALK in comparison thanks).

We’re also in an era where there is huge resentment of anyone with significant money and I understand why (the levelling up paper gets published today and that goes some way to explaining it). But again that can be dislike before the person does anything wrong.

I advise some very big businesses in financial matters so I do understand why people are twitchy about the buyout terms, but having done that I’m reasonably content since so lets give Pace a break and all pull together.

[Jakubclaret]

You have a weird infatuation with Simon Jordan.

I just find it incredibly strange why pace refuses to speak to SJ, if somebody was publicly shredding my business model the first thing I’d want to do is have it out with that person & set the record straight to overturn that scathing assessment, I’d definitely have some sort of a say even if I was in the wrong but I believed I was in the right.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I just find it incredibly strange why pace refuses to speak to SJ, if somebody was publicly shredding my business model the first thing I’d want to do is have it out with that person & set the record straight to overturn that scathing assessment, I’d definitely have some sort of a say even if I was in the wrong but I believed I was in the right.

He is probably like 99.9% of the world has no wish or need to speak to a bellend like Simon Jordan.

You are bigging up a failed football club owner, talksport gobshite and a columnist for The Sun for some very weird reason

[Jakubclaret]

He is probably like 99.9% of the world has no wish or need to speak to a bellend like Simon Jordan.

You are bigging up a failed football club owner, talksport gobshite and a columnist for The Sun for some very weird reason

But 99% of the world aren’t systematically getting picked apart by jordan & wouldn’t have any wish to confront Jordan.

[claretonthecoast1882]

But 99% of the world aren’t systematically getting picked apart by jordan & wouldn’t have any wish to confront Jordan.

Yet there is only you out there waving his Jordan pom poms who is arsed about what Jordan is saying.

This is also the same Jordan who is mates with Mel Morris and defended his actions at Derby until he knew all the facts, maybe he should have learnt from that to keep his mouth shut when he has no idea what he is commenting on. Then in doing so he wouldn't be appealing to his target audience which unsurprisingly contains yourself.

[randomclaret2]

We have entered a cultural generation where many small minded types want resignations for minor issues (or non issues) and / or want people to go before they have actually had a chance to fail.

All it means is that nobody of quality would ever want those roles.

I would urge people to look at the “sliding doors” alternative, i.e. either Garlick’s bunch remaining (almost certainly no Cornet, Collins or Roberts) or that Egyptian chap fronting a takeover (I’m very happy with ALK in comparison thanks).

We’re also in an era where there is huge resentment of anyone with significant money and I understand why (the levelling up paper gets published today and that goes some way to explaining it). But again that can be dislike before the person does anything wrong.

I advise some very big businesses in financial matters so I do understand why people are twitchy about the buyout terms, but having done that I’m reasonably content since so lets give Pace a break and all pull together.

Isnt one of the concerns about Pace that he doesnt have " significant money " , certainly not in football club owner terms ?

[Jakubclaret]

When you accept that what you describe as ‘reality’ is an individual perception of reality, then you would soon realise that your reality may make sense to you but doesn’t make sense to others who have a different perception of what is going on.

Having a Pace out thread in my reality is nothing but ridiculous.

I accept that others may feel overwhelmingly against him though and that’s fine.

When you quote things like long term health of the club is why your concerned, I would ask that you consider what you actually mean by that and what actual facts that you have that make these concerns something to you?

If it’s just based on stuff written by media outlets and said by people who are paid to generate attention for who pays them- then that’s fine but that to me doesn’t make it a reality in truth.

If you genuinely want to believe that things have been preventable then again that’s fine but have you considered what else could have happened if your initial conclusion was wrong?

Very few issues are black and white and it’s the failure to recognise the complexity of what goes on is what makes these things difficult to discuss/understand but as soon as you realise that your reality may be a version of a potential reality, the sooner you will see that you can’t conclude these issues with such certainty.

You mention the individual perception of my reality being flawed but if you look around this MB & the threads & posts you will see I’m not the only poster with this delusional state of reality, the number of posts pertaining to the concerns regarding the owners are sizeable in volume. Regarding facts I could go on all day but that reality would leave myself open for negativity.

[Chester Perry]

I just find it incredibly strange why pace refuses to speak to SJ, if somebody was publicly shredding my business model the first thing I’d want to do is have it out with that person & set the record straight to overturn that scathing assessment, I’d definitely have some sort of a say even if I was in the wrong but I believed I was in the right.

While I have long had concerns about aspects of this takeover, the last thing I would want any chairman (not just ours) to do is talk to Simon Jordan on TSR about his business dealings. It is totally inappropriate and would likely cause more faux concerns than resolve any, simply as a result of the way Jordan and TSR go about their sensationalising business.

A more appropriate move would to be less opaque in reporting, the recent detail about the ownership structure on the club website is a good start (https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/company-details), and hopefully the accounts due by the end of April will provide real detail on:
- the MSD loan and its terms (length, interest, even value);
- the related party loan from the club - if it is actually a thing - we do know it is now possible as a recent of the changes in the Articles of Association, but not that this ability has actually been utilised. If it has, then it has to be shown, but it would be great if there was additional note information on it.

Any salary or consultancy fees would have to be declared, but we have to consider they may not be taking them at this time. There will almost certainly be no dividends at this juncture. We can even hope that there may even be more on the takeover transaction, small shareholders were informed of the share price in that transaction and the fact that there are also potential performance related additional payments. So why not give us detail of the payment schedule (particularly if there has been an agreed change to it) and even whether Bloomberg were right in the claim about handback if terms are not met.

[Jakubclaret]

While I have long had concerns about aspects of this takeover, the last thing I would want any chairman (not just ours) to do is talk to Simon Jordan on TSR about his business dealings. It is totally inappropriate and would likely cause more faux concerns than resolve any, simply as a result of the way Jordan and TSR go about their sensationalising business.

A more appropriate move would to be less opaque in reporting, the recent detail about the ownership structure on the club website is a good start (https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/company-details), and hopefully the accounts due by the end of April will provide real detail on:
- the MSD loan and its terms (length, interest, even value);
- the related party loan from the club - if it is actually a thing - we do know it is now possible as a recent of the changes in the Articles of Association, but not that this ability has actually been utilised. If it has, then it has to be shown, but it would be great if there was additional note information on it.

Any salary or consultancy fees would have to be declared, but we have to consider they may not be taking them at this time. There will almost certainly be no dividends at this juncture. We can even hope that there may even be more on the takeover transaction, small shareholders were informed of the share price in that transaction and the fact that there are also potential performance related additional payments. So why not give us detail of the payment schedule (particularly if there has been an agreed change to it) and even whether Bloomberg were right in the claim about handback if terms are not met.

Im not talking about SJ interrogating him about the ins & outs of a backend of a fart a 5 min chat & to answer some general questions would go a lot further than complete silence.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Hes doing a good job so far signings wise.

Very difficult to sort out Garlicks mess in two transfer windows (first one was just after takeover so give him the benefit there) but at least he is proactive looking into a market which is affordable (Europe).

If we had pushed for boat out for Phillips when he was available in Garlicks reign we wouldnt have the midfield problems we now have.

[Colburn_Claret]

I’m beginning to think this site contains maybe the worst aspect of our support. I’m considering another break from it because I’m disgusted by so many on here who seem to want us to fail just so they can be right. I’m saddened by all this bile from people who save zero knowledge of running a football club. It is actually darkly hilarious how many ‘experts’ there are on here, not to mention those with magical inside information. If you think our transfer window was depressing some should take a look at their own posts. Reading on this site just now is approaching masochistic.

KTF Houseboy, they may be noisy, but they are definitely a very small minority. In fact you can count the worst offenders on one hand.

[Colburn_Claret]

Isnt one of the concerns about Pace that he doesnt have " significant money " , certainly not in football club owner terms ?

That shouldn't be a concern, just a reality.
BFC, like every other club, should be self sustaining. Carrying debt is a modern reality, the only problem is when the debt payments can't be met. There is no evidence that AP can't meet the debt, and lots of evidence that many other clubs, who are peers, are carrying debt that leaves them dangling over an abyss.
AP will have a business model, we aren't party to it, but I'm confident HE knows what he is doing.

[JohnMcGreal]

BFC, like every other club, should be self sustaining.

We were.

[NRC]

I couldn't believe a thread with this sentiment was actually on the MB. I can't rationalize my stupidity at actually opening it and reading it to this point. I guess it's because it's human nature to watch disaster unfold. I feel like a social media ambulance chaser

[clarethomer]

You mention the individual perception of my reality being flawed but if you look around this MB & the threads & posts you will see I’m not the only poster with this delusional state of reality, the number of posts pertaining to the concerns regarding the owners are sizeable in volume. Regarding facts I could go on all day but that reality would leave myself open for negativity.

You are right - we have all probably been guilty of being wrong or committed to a view that may not have been right at some point. I share the below for reflection and to possibly help with self-awareness of what may be going on within our brains when we get wholly convinced on a football topic that we know better than the experts.

Screenshot 2022-02-02 at 19.39.59.png (323.77 KiB) Viewed 1298 times

You should be thinking - if it was that easy why would someone who has a track record of success in their field not seeing this.

Is it because they are incompetent or is it because we do not really have all the facts, knowledge and information to really understand why something hasn't worked in the way you expected?

Not a pop at you Jakub btw - just trying to help widen perspective on the board as a whole.

[Long Time Lurker]

I'm not at the Pace Out stage of the OP, but I do find myself in a different position to a lot of posters on this thread.

For me, chasing after Orsic wasn't a feather in the clubs cap it was a confirmation of everything that is still wrong with our recruitment.

Taking the unexpected departure of Wood out of the equation, I think it is generally accepted that our recruitment should have been focussed on a number of things

1) Signing players that can benefit the clubs balance sheet with development potential and future resale values.

2) At least one Centre midfielder ( creative or holding )

3) A classical right winger who can create chances by delivering crosses from the wing. The ability to score and contribute defensively would also be desirable.

4) Players that could form the core of a future promotion pushing team should we get relegated.

5) Players who could be expected to have a future at the club beyond 3 or 4 years.

6) Players that fit into the formation and system we currently play. The one that our current players are proficient in playing.

So we decide to focus our efforts on signing a 29 year old inverted left winger who has never played in a top tier competitive league, who will cost us £7m ( upfront ), who probably doesn't have a long time left in his career, who would have had a rapidly declining resale value, who doesn't fit into our system and who would have required us to switch to a new system to get the best out of him and who didn't tick any of our urgent need boxes ( central midfielder or right winger ).

Basically, a player that satisfied none of the obvious needs that most of the posters on here agree that we should be addressing.

And yet, Osric is being held aloft as the difference between success and failure in the poor window that we have just endured.

On the basis of what ?

Some youtube clips, in which he was given acres of space and time to pick his shots ( because the Mickey Mouse Croation league is so unbalanced that Zagreb can dominate the other teams with little effort, especially the bottom five ). Oh, and one European match against Tottenham.

For me that encapsulated out poor recruitment perfectly.

A complete absence of forward thinking strategy that places the emphasis almost completely on what we need now instead of what we need to protect and benefit our future.

A blinkered desire to change the way that we play from a boring but effective system to a more expansive attacking system that is far less effective against teams with the finances and technical players that are better suited to playing that way. If you adopt the same strategy as a competitor and you have fewer resources and a lesser talent base you will lose.

Alan Pace swallowed the Mike Rigg mantra of " the Winter window is too difficult to do business in " and he is now regurgitating it on a regular basis. He benefitted the club enormously by getting rid of Mike Rigg, but the excuse driven culture he developed, the sit back and wait for things to drop into our laps ethos, the poor transfer target selection and the recruitment professionals that he hired are still with us.

For me, hearing about Alan Pace jetting off to get a signing over the line ( if it actually happened ) isn't a cause for celebration when that target made little sense.

The only way that the Osric signing made any conceivable sense is when we consider three possible outcomes.

1) Osric players on the left and we permanently shift McNeill out to the right, playing with inverted wingers that are encouraged to score instead of contributing dangerous crosses that lead to goals or unsettle opponents and disrupt their own attacking rhythm.

2) Osric plays on the left, we play Cornet on the right and we sell McNeill.

3) We completely change our formation and play a forward midfield three containing Osric, McNeill and Cornet.

For me, all three of those outcomes make far less sense than simply going out and signing up a right winger that is either " cheap as chips " or not in the latter stages of their career.

To summarise, our failure to sign Osric wasn't the difference between success and failure in the last window it was the sign of us setting ourselves up to fail from the outset.

That failure to plan for success was bolstered by the comments coming out of the club before and during the window.

" When everyone player is fit we are a force "

" I believe in these lads, they can get the job done "

" The Winter window is too difficult to do any business in "

I find the last one particularly annoying and I feel embarrassed every time I hear somebody at the voice it with authority.

In the last window £600m of business was done by European clubs that didn't find it to difficult to do any business. That figure makes the total business done look far less than the total transactions that actually took place, because most loans have no recorded transfer attached, and it also takes out pre-contract deals that won't be ratified until the Summer.

https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/tran ... 2022-01-03

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng ... ve-leagues

What makes the total business done even more oppressive, to the fallacy of business being too difficult, is that a lot of it was extra business done by clubs who ticked most of their boxes and did most of the business in Summer.

It wasn't business being done by clubs that failed to do what we needed in the Summer and clubs that have 10 players out of contract in the Summer and no players in the development squads that look nailed on ready to step up.

The nature of the buyout and the debts we now have to service are a new problem, but our poor recruitment has been a problem for the last 3-4 years. I would also argue that our poor recruitment performance actually played a big part in exposing us to a leveraged buyout.

Looking at all the things that happened I don't see Garlicks complete reluctance to spend and Dyches stubborn focus on a particular type of player being at the heart of our failed transfer business.

Garlick didn't hire Mike Rigg because he didn't want to spend on recruitment and he wanted somebody at the club he could ignore. I suspect he hired him because he saw that improving our recruitment was a way for us to move forward. The money that we made from selling players like Keane was the difference between us posting a profit and a loss on our balance sheet ( even with our PL income ).

Towards the end Dyche appeared to have very little say in our recruitment. He couldn't even convince the board to offer contracts to players that he wanted to retain, never mind influence new players he wanted us to sign.

For me, the problem was that out recruitment was hopeless. We had a pot of money to spend, To make our cash go further we decided to sign some veteran journeymen as free transfers. That left the bulk of our money free for chasing more expensive targets. Mike Rigg then picked out a host of unrealistic targets for us to chase after with our cash. We signed none of them. That left us needing to make urgent additions late in the window, so we signed more veteran journeymen to plug the gaps.

The outcome was we added more veterans to the squad and wage bill while we amassed a lot of money in the dry powder store. More importantly, the squad wasn't refreshed, the first eleven didn't improve and the future problems were made worse instead of better.

Garlick isn't daft, when ALK knocked on the door he probably took stock of things. The problems we are storing up have increased, the bloke that I hired to improve our recruitment doesn't seem to be up to the job, my relationship with the manger has completely broken down, myself and my family are being abused by the fans on social media and the other shareholders are all getting on a bit and that will create owners changes in the future. I also find it interesting to note that the back room environments at QPR and Fulham turned toxic over recruitment problems, and their managers found themselves out of the loop and at odds with their owners in the latter case, shortly after Rigg joined them.

Now, somebody wants to swell my personal bank account by £100m and free me of all this stress. Damn right I'm going to accept.

If it all goes tits up I can step in and resume control, after Pace and Co have taken all the flak for relegation and selling off the clubs assets to made do, taking on the role of saviour. Should things go really bad and the club finds itself in administration I can save it by back it off the administrators for pennies on the pound. If it all goes well the fans will say I did right by the club and I made a stack of cash.

In my personal opinion, the people at fault for our current predicament are Mike Rigg and the recruitment department. They stand at the centre of all the recent problems at the club. Pre Rigg we were doing reasonably well, building slowly and we had a bit of momentum. After he joined our momentum was sapped and we found ourselves standing still, then we started to slip backwards at an ever more rapid rate.

[Winstonswhite]

LTL. You’re slating Pace for going for an inverted right footed left winger and saying we should have gone for a right winger. I know this is a bit out there, but maybe Orsic can play right wing?!

[Long Time Lurker]

LTL. You’re slating Pace for going for an inverted right footed left winger and saying we should have gone for a right winger. I know this is a bit out there, but maybe Orsic can play right wing?!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mislav- ... erein/3535

Zagreb - 169 games played with 6 as a right winger
Inter Zapresic - 90 games played with 8 on the right
Ulsan Hyunda - 70 games played with 4 on the right

So in the last few years of his career, out of a total of 329 games, he has played 18 times out on the right. It will seem that nobody at those clubs thought the position suited him or he didn't want to play there.

In terms of his national career, the Croation managers have never played him there.

It is fairly obvious that Orsic sees himself as an inverted left winger and so does every manager that he has played under.

A cash strapped club probably shouldn't set out to spend £7m signing a veteran player, in a lower tier league, on the basis that he might be able to do the job that needs doing. Signing a player who has proven themselves capable of doing the job that needs doing or a younger player that could be developed to do that job would make a lot more sense.

[clarethomer]

Perfect example of the Dunning Kruger cognitive bias…

[Long Time Lurker]

Perfect example of the Dunning Kruger cognitive bias…

I'm not sure where you are coming from. An important element of the Dunning Kruger hypothesis is the importance of objective performance markers.

Are you really implying that the people doubting the performance of our recruitment team over the past 3 to 4 years are mistaken in their beliefs ( or they are over estimating their own knowledge and judgement ) because they are questioning football professionals ?

In philosophical circles that is classed as a baseless appeal to authority.

However, for the sake of argument, let us consider your Dunning Kruger position and apply objective performance markers to it.

1 ) We have 10 veteran first team players out of contract at the end of this season.

2 ) We have little or no players coming through our development academy that could be expected to play a major part in first team PL next year. Most of the potential candidates are also out of contact at the end of this season.

3 ) The majority of our first eleven players were bought 3 or 4 years ago.

4 ) The majority of players we added to our academy over the last few years were turnstile players that didn't last a season.

5 ) In the past couple of seasons we had to put the kids on the bench just to fill it and play them in the last 10 minutes, not because they were up to the job, but simply to rest players.

6 ) For the second window in a row Pace has apparently been sat on a plane in an attempt to save our window. He must have contemplated the reality of - why am I being required to do this again, surely our recruitment can identify targets that don't result in a last minute flights.

7 ) Our inability to identify realistic targets resulting in no first eleven signings and the accumulation of £40m+ in our dry powder store that made a leveraged buyout possible.

8 ) Our previous technical direct had a devastatingly negative impact on all of his previous clubs - which can be supported with facts and evidence.

9 ) The majority of people Mike Rigg employed to oversee our new data driven scouting came from Middlesbrough. They were involved in a failed attempt to replicate the Brentford model - which saw them waste all of Middlesbrough's parachute money on poor turnstile signings that were secured by paying over the odds in transfer fees.

Would you like me to provide more objective performance markers or have I substantiated the belief shared by many on this forum that the poor performance of our recruitment department over the past 3 or 4 years is at the heart of our current problems ?