Dyche & Woan

[warksclaret]

Whilst their past record with BFC up until around 12 months ago was admirable, are these two in danger of becoming the new Warnock & Jepson combination. This latter two very much old school and somewhat detached from the modern game, as we have seen in the change at Middlesborough's fortunes since Warnock left. You have a similar situation at Nottingam Forest since Hughton left and Steve Gibson took over

I have seen a rigidness this season in particular to not experiment,not change personnel, tactics, or formation and as we have seen recently v Leeds, Newcastle and Watford, all in and around our league position, we have become very stale,with one or two players starting to look demotivated. What do other readers think ?

[Shaggy]

Dyche has always been rigid and has a system that he will not deviate from. People are just starting to see through him now.

[taio]

Whilst their past record with BFC up until around 12 months ago was admirable, are these two in danger of becoming the new Warnock & Jepson combination. This latter two very much old school and somewhat detached from the modern game, as we have seen in the change at Middlesborough's fortunes since Warnock left. You have a similar situation at Nottingam Forest since Hughton left and Steve Gibson took over

I have seen a rigidness this season in particular to not experiment,not change personnel, tactics, or formation and as we have seen recently v Leeds, Newcastle and Watford, all in and around our league position, we have become very stale,with one or two players starting to look demotivated. What do other readers think ?

Steve Gibson is the chairman of Middlesbrough

[ClaretTony]

Dyche has always been rigid and has a system that he will not deviate from. People are just starting to see through him now.

Not always played the same system

[Winstonswhite]

Dyche has always been rigid and has a system that he will not deviate from. People are just starting to see through him now.

We’ll it’s took them long enough.

*uck me he’s played virtually the same way for ten years and other managers- some of the worlds best- have struggled to see through him.

[JimmyRobbo]

Dyche has always been rigid and has a system that he will not deviate from. People are just starting to see through him now.

Certainly has deviated from his 'system'.

[warksclaret]

Steve Gibson is the chairman of Middlesbrough

Thanks RV-I meant Steve Cooper

[warksclaret]

Even Boreham Wood play 3 at the back

[Row Z]

Not always played the same system

Ok CT, he's played 4-3-3 for 10 minutes of the odd game, or very unsuccessfully played 4-5-1 at least once.

As a percentage of games, it must be 98%+ that we've stuck to a rigid 4-4-2.

[ClaretTony]

Ok CT, he's played 4-3-3 for 10 minutes of the odd game, or very unsuccessfully played 4-5-1 at least once.

As a percentage of games, it must be 98%+ that we've stuck to a rigid 4-4-2.

When were fourth in the league and playing Hendrick behind one striker (Wood) we had people on here moaning that we weren’t playing 4-4-2 with two strikers. We are only playing with one striker now.

[TheFamilyCat]

Dyche has always been rigid and has a system that he will not deviate from. People are just starting to see through him now.

Nothing wrong with the system or the system if he has the right players.

[RVclaret]

When were fourth in the league and playing Hendrick behind one striker (Wood) we had people on here moaning that we weren’t playing 4-4-2 with two strikers. We are only playing with one striker now.

Disagree with your comment that we are only playing with one striker now. Pretty clear that it’s 4-4-2 with Cornet playing alongside the other striker. Although to be fair I don’t think he really knows what movements he’s meant to make because he’s not a natural striker.

[claret59]

I have been intending to start a post for some time now asking: "Just what does an assistant manager do?" The tactical errors seem obvious to many on here and you would think it might be a subject of discussion on the pitch side but they both seem to be of the same mind or Woan is programmed to agree with everything that SD does. We are in a serious predicament but a lack of tactical nous and a unwillingness to change is dragging us down to an inevitable conclusion.

[ClaretTony]

Disagree with your comment that we are only playing with one striker now. Pretty clear that it’s 4-4-2 with Cornet playing alongside the other striker. Although to be fair I don’t think he really knows what movements he’s meant to make because he’s not a natural striker.

I don't think he's playing as an out and out striker though. To be honest, I'd prefer him out wide.

[RVclaret]

I don't think he's playing as an out and out striker though. To be honest, I'd prefer him out wide.

Here are the heat maps of Cornet (top) and Weghorst (bottom) v Watford. Ignore the bits from Cornet on the left as that was only from his switch second half. But that to me looks like he’s very much up top as a striker. If anything Weghorst was playing deeper.

Agree that Cornet should be played out wide he’s far better with play ahead of him.

[bfcjg]

It's not the systems it's the constant insistence to pass the ball across the back four then as the opposition approach because our midfielders are awful at dropping deep to collect the ball and pass and move forward the ball is just tw@ted forward regardless of 442 433 451.

[jackmiggins]

Whenever I see Woan, it always reminds me of Bradley Walsh in 'Mike Bassett England manager'.

[Hantsclaret]

It's not the systems it's the constant insistence to pass the ball across the back four then as the opposition approach because our midfielders are awful at dropping deep to collect the ball and pass and move forward the ball is just tw@ted forward regardless of 442 433 451.

Could not agree more - the oppo seem to be set up to force the ball to Ben Mee who - whilst I love the guy to death - is our worst passer of a ball (maybe Stephens excepted after Sat night!)

[SalisburyClaret]

It's not the systems it's the constant insistence to pass the ball across the back four then as the opposition approach because our midfielders are awful at dropping deep to collect the ball and pass and move forward the ball is just tw@ted forward regardless of 442 433 451.

The midfielder's role is to win the second ball after the ball has been tw@ted forward. If you're expecting our midfielders to collect the ball from the back 4 and build a passing move resulting in an attack then you might want to get in the queue for a Twix while you're waiting

[Shappie]

Whenever I see Woan, it always reminds me of Bradley Walsh in 'Mike Bassett England manager'.

"yes boss"

[davetheclaret]

Disagree with your comment that we are only playing with one striker now. Pretty clear that it’s 4-4-2 with Cornet playing alongside the other striker. Although to be fair I don’t think he really knows what movements he’s meant to make because he’s not a natural striker.

Exactly, Dyche knows cornet has to be in the side but isn't sure where to play him, he's also unsure where to play McNeil. Its only my opinion but like a lot of other supporters id like to see 3 at the back, bringing Collins into the side, id then play a 4 in midfield, id put McNeil into a free advance central midfield role and keep the 2 up front 3412 some may say its a 352 there isnt much difference but you can soon change to 343 playing with this system, if fit Taylor and Roberts would play wide in midfield, in fact the teams almost picks its self.

[Fretters]

Exactly, Dyche knows cornet has to be in the side but isn't sure where to play him, he's also unsure where to play McNeil. Its only my opinion but like a lot of other supporters id like to see 3 at the back, bringing Collins into the side, id then play a 4 in midfield, id put McNeil into a free advance central midfield role and keep the 2 up front 3412 some may say its a 352 there isnt much difference but you can soon change to 343 playing with this system, if fit Taylor and Roberts would play wide in midfield, in fact the teams almost picks its self.

Absolutely this.

[superdimitri]

I don't think Weghorst is used to playing with wingers. He usually played with 2 or 3 attacking players behind him narrow, rather than wide.

[ewanrob]

Radical ? ..... but why not put Collins next to Tarks , Mee left back with Charlie just in front of him...great cover for Mee and good at bombing forward.
This then gives Dwight a roaming role....by the way I know absolutley nothing about tatics ;>)

[longsidetrumpet]

Radical ? ..... but why not put Collins next to Tarks , Mee left back with Charlie just in front of him...great cover for Mee and good at bombing forward.
This then gives Dwight a roaming role....by the way I know absolutley nothing about tatics ;>)

Or spelling

[ewanrob]

Or spelling

Oh my god, im so sorry, the amount of times Ive seen a spelling mistake on this board and never ever felt the need to mock...ffs

That comment says everything about this board and some of the people on it...ta-ta

[spt_claret]

Exactly, Dyche knows cornet has to be in the side but isn't sure where to play him, he's also unsure where to play McNeil. Its only my opinion but like a lot of other supporters id like to see 3 at the back, bringing Collins into the side, id then play a 4 in midfield, id put McNeil into a free advance central midfield role and keep the 2 up front 3412 some may say its a 352 there isnt much difference but you can soon change to 343 playing with this system, if fit Taylor and Roberts would play wide in midfield, in fact the teams almost picks its self.

This wouldn't work.
If our only width is provided by wing backs it is easy to squeeze us, isolate them and force them back. Taylor and Roberts as good as they are do not have the rapid pace and dynamism of a TAA/Robertson, and even they have wide forwards ahead of them.
We could field McNeil and Cornet in WF roles but then you have just a midfield two who are already being overrun at times, again with all respects to Westwood and Brownhill they are not Jordan Henderson or Paul Pogba or N'Golo Kante, or indeed Fred or McTominay. And they still often have a third midfielder alongside or ahead rather than a defender behind.
I guarantee you this formation would see our fullbacks pushed back into a flat back five and/or our central midfield completely isolated- even more than currently.
There's an argument for 4231 like United field, but with Orsic failing to arrive, Vydra injured, Lennon aging and Jay/JBG out of form it would be difficult to assemble a strong 3 behind Weghorst. I'd give it a go, but I think our abject January window has left that switch no better than our current setup.

[BigChaCha]

The sycophancy from Mr Woan in the last TV interview I saw of him towards 'The Gaffa' was vomit-inducing... I'm not a fan of his, to be honest, and all of our creative players (which isn't many) over the last few seasons have all gone backwards under his coaching stewardship!

[davetheclaret]

This wouldn't work.
If our only width is provided by wing backs it is easy to squeeze us, isolate them and force them back. Taylor and Roberts as good as they are do not have the rapid pace and dynamism of a TAA/Robertson, and even they have wide forwards ahead of them.
We could field McNeil and Cornet in WF roles but then you have just a midfield two who are already being overrun at times, again with all respects to Westwood and Brownhill they are not Jordan Henderson or Paul Pogba or N'Golo Kante, or indeed Fred or McTominay. And they still often have a third midfielder alongside or ahead rather than a defender behind.
I guarantee you this formation would see our fullbacks pushed back into a flat back five and/or our central midfield completely isolated- even more than currently.
There's an argument for 4231 like United field, but with Orsic failing to arrive, Vydra injured, Lennon aging and Jay/JBG out of form it would be difficult to assemble a strong 3 behind Weghorst. I'd give it a go, but I think our abject January window has left that switch no better than our current setup.

I take your point spt claret but i doubt we'll ever know weather it would work or not because Dyche wont ever play 3412 but by playing 442 i think we are to predictable and although we are keeping clean sheets and picking a few points up without a change i can't see us getting enough points to stay up, i hope im wrong and only time will tell.