That’s not why they say. They say she has been included for “trying to take education back to the 1950s”.
Either way, it’s petty beyond belief isn’t it?
Aggi’s question was a very clear one that you’ve avoided here.
Sorry, it was early in the morning.ksrclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:33 amAggi’s question was a very clear one that you’ve avoided here.
He asked why you aren’t suggesting other schools emulate the methods of the Islam Girl’s High School, not if you’ve congratulated them or not.
Is it that you aren’t aware of their methods because they don’t promote them like the Michaela School do?
And yet none of this happens in the very modern, recently established Michaela school.It Is What It Is wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:57 amIn the 1950's it was normal to have the blackboard wooden backed duster thrown at you, as well as the chalk and pencils, and the cane about a dozen times year for really trivial "kids messing about" things.
Didn't do me any harm, instilled discipline and paid attention more often.
The teachers of today if they did that would be arrested, charged, court and lose their job.
It was just the part of a school day and Everyone was ok with it.
Now that I can understand. As a teacher myself in a Sixth Form College, I have known for some time that traditional teacher-led lessons are far more effective than inquiry-style lessons that became the fashionable thing around 20 years ago and still dominate a lot of the pedagogy in teacher training programmes today. Thankfully, this is slowly being overturned.
jdrobbo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:59 pmI have spent quite a long time monitoring her interactions with fellow teachers on social media over the last six or seven months. Many of her tweets have been deleted but a five minute search will guide you to many posts that still remain. The thing that I find disturbing most here is how she appears to treat people within the profession… Like they were dirt on the bottom of her shoe, in some examples.
What I also would like to question is her methodology behind commanding respect. I’m not going to slam it down, because different schools take different approaches, and I dare say there are excellent features within her philosophy, but what I would say, is highlighting social deprivation as a means for extremely strict discipline, is not something that I necessarily agree with….
Clear rules and boundaries - yes… Respect for everyone - yes… Sanctions for lack of compliance - yes. Zero tolerance on a number of issues - yes.
I do feel as though I’m in a good place to comment… I’m just about to finish my 18th year at the same school in an incredibly challenging inner-city area. At some stages throughout this period, my place of work has been situated in an area that has been in the bottom 1% (one percent) nationwide for social deprivation.
It’s tough, it’s bloody tough, but that doesn’t necessarily mean children come to school to be badly behaved or that they’re always hard work.
We give everything we have to give the children the best possible chance and shot at life… everything!
We’ve had boys in our fashion club, children of all ages, playing steel pans… full key stage choirs (120 children), boys in the netball team… Girls in the football team… Opportunities and love, wherever it is possible. Talents nurtured and allowed to blossom.
Our attendance for the last decade has been over 97% in every single year, apart from during the pandemic. This year and last, it’s over 98%. We make our school a place that children like to come.
Our results? They have been above national average for seven of the last eight years… Above national average!!! And as an added extra, many of our children arrive from Eritrean and Ethiopian backgrounds, having barely spoken a word of English before reaching four years of age. Their entry points are as low as they come!!
Suspensions? One child in the last 12 years.
Exclusions? None.
We don’t send children into isolation if they can’t afford their dinner money… we make them something different and we teach them the volume of good food and money!! We trust that they will eventually pay what is owed… And we very rarely have a problem, getting the money back!
There are a number of ways to skin a cat, so please forgive me for not showing much support for this alternative approach. Just because some areas are unbelievably difficult… There are several ways to garner respect. I’d like to think that all the children I have taught, and their parents, will respect me for that!
Hi jdrobbo,jdrobbo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:39 amHave you looked into this woman’s admissions policy in detail? Have you looked at what this woman has to say about social deprivation? You see, despite the area we work in, we never use it as a sweetener or excuse.
And why is progress 8 the only measure by which this person and her school is being placed on a pedestal?
I, too, worked with megalomaniac heads. There seems to be a lot more about nowadays. I don't believe teachers are underpaid.Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:22 amEverybody and his dog has an opinion as the best way to educate. Everyone has been to school and so knows what they're talking about(allegedly)
All governments of all parties have been guilty of given the fool in the cabinet the education gig
Often for 6 months before a cabinet reshuffle takes them elsewhere. Since Shirley Wiliams as education minister little changed
Gove even did the job till he got switched and you don't get much more incompetent than that clown .
Unfortunately there is no silver bullet just lots of often misguided options. As a teacher of over 40yrs I have taught in most types of schools and worked with megalomaniac heads and dedicated underpaid teachers in equal numbers.
You seem to be playing the woman not the ball there, as well as stereotyping everyone who agrees with her as braindead, which doesn’t seem the way to win a debate.daveisaclaret wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:46 amhttps://x.com/Miss_Snuffy/status/172039 ... 58544?s=20
Link there to her Twitter post of the letter.
She enjoys attention. Not sure that's a great trait for a teacher but I'm sure the braindead people who like her will think this letter is good.
I'm not having a debate, never mind trying to win one.CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:47 pmYou seem to be playing the woman not the ball there, as well as stereotyping everyone who agrees with her as braindead, which doesn’t seem the way to win a debate.
Leaving that to one side, the issue she was highlighting appears to be whether as a country we should be promoting selfishness or generosity, she clearly believes people have become more selfish in recent years and that attitude in general makes it harder for her to teach her kids the values she believes in.
She clearly has a point to me about the M&S ad, even if she did object to it a bit more strenuously than many would have. As for selfishness in general, I see more examples of this year after year and the country appears to suffer as a result.
That probably explains why no other European country has been stupid enough to vote itself into the gutter.brexit wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:59 amInterestingly, I occasionally show some of the threads on this forum to my European Colleagues, and they are astonished about the lack of well constructed arguments and the inability to accept others' view points. They question the British Education system, which is based on exam preparation and rote learning. European schools have a wider curriculum and encourage critical thinking skills.
Is the problem, and I'm speaking as an outsider of the teaching profession, lack of leadership and poor training.
I am 6,000 miles away and have just got in from a few [quite a lot] beers with my wife. I'll attempt a coherent answer tomorrow, Colburn.Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 1:47 pmIs the problem, and I'm speaking as an outsider of the teaching profession, lack of leadership and poor training.
I left a factory where I worked for 10 years, where my boss was a great fella. He knew the factory inside out, very easy going, but hadn't got a clue about dealing with personnel.
I was fortunate to do an NVQ Level 4 in management in a previous job, which taught me so much, and obviously opened my eyes to all his errors.
My wife works for MENCAP, and has already switched houses due to endemic bullying. My daughter in law also works for MENCAP, she is also going through a similar issue. She isn't being bullied, but one of her co-workers is bullying a client. When she put in a complaint her boss made excuses for them, and then called them in for 'mediation'. Her boss is apparently a really nice fella, but again not trained for leadership. They get the positions because they can do the job inside out, but that leadership role, dealing with conflicts and disagreements, organising rotas etc is just completely absent. Chucked in the deep end to sink or swim, and the detrimental knock on affect this has on the staff is horrendous.
Do school heads have to go through extra training, or is it all down to whoever sticks their hand highest.
KB works in one of the most deprived areas of London. Progress 8 is the best measure for evaluating the academic performance of a school although it should not be the only criterion for assessing the overall effectiveness of education. Nearly 40 years working in secondary schools tells me that this woman is getting it right. I'd love to work for her.jdrobbo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:39 amOver 80% of our pupils starting our school over the last decade have begun with no English…zero…four years into their life. On leaving school, in almost all of those years, they have left our school with cohort data that is in-line or often, above national averages in reading, writing and maths. We don’t make a song and dance about it and as before, we focus on enriching their lives in as many ways possible, be it through singing, sport etc.
Have you looked into this woman’s admissions policy in detail? Have you looked at what this woman has to say about social deprivation? You see, despite the area we work in, we never use it as a sweetener or excuse.
And why is progress 8 the only measure by which this person and her school is being placed on a pedestal?
As I say, we don’t run to the press with our start v end data! There’s far far far more to a child’s education and a school’s success than a set of progress data.
You’d be able to hold the line with her.Uwe Noble wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:26 pmKB works in one of the most deprived areas of London. Progress 8 is the best measure for evaluating the academic performance of a school although it should not be the only criterion for assessing the overall effectiveness of education. Nearly 40 years working in secondary schools tells me that this woman is getting it right. I'd love to work for her.
You've done nearly 40 years, Uwe?Uwe Noble wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:26 pmKB works in one of the most deprived areas of London. Progress 8 is the best measure for evaluating the academic performance of a school although it should not be the only criterion for assessing the overall effectiveness of education. Nearly 40 years working in secondary schools tells me that this woman is getting it right. I'd love to work for her.
I think I mentioned upthread about the company she keeps and with appearances at stuff like the National Conservative conference it's no surprise that she's pulling in the Trump supporters.Uwe Noble wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:26 pmKB works in one of the most deprived areas of London. Progress 8 is the best measure for evaluating the academic performance of a school although it should not be the only criterion for assessing the overall effectiveness of education. Nearly 40 years working in secondary schools tells me that this woman is getting it right. I'd love to work for her.
If enough people share your views, then her school will close for lack of pupils. It doesn't seem to be happening.
My views have been stated but in extremely simple terms (there are so many within the profession and available online), my views are this:
Disappointed no leather or whips involvedRowls wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 10:27 amA documentary is set to air on Sunday night, covering the going's on in the Michaela School in Wembley, north London.
Titled "Britain's Strictest Headmistress" it shows the methods and daily running of this absurdly successful school. Many of us on here have been discussing Katherine Birbalsingh's successes as the eponymous headmistress.
I'm very keen to watch this and I'm sure it will be of interest to many others.
ITV, Sunday 22nd May 10:15pm.
The national curriculum is far too restrictive IMO. The whole policy of making school bigger and bigger, the size of small towns in many cases, is wrongheaded in my book, as is the idea that all schools should have the same curriculum. There should be much greater freedom of choice by both parents and schools and let state schools (just like in the private sector) specialise in whatever they blinking well want.jdrobbo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:21 pmMy views have been stated but in extremely simple terms (there are so many within the profession and available online), my views are this:
It’s not appropriate to demand absolute silence at all times for all pupils in corridors. I don’t think such transitions help children for every day life but my main view is that some pupils may have special needs and find it very traumatic. Remember, it’s ALL pupils, no exceptions.
I don’t agree with her constant references to the inner city…as I’ve alludes, the area I work in has been in the bottom 1% nationwide for social deprivation on numerous occasions in the last 20 years. Our pupils (almost all) start with no English and their exit progress is frankly ginormous (results above national average despite a four year English language learning deficit)….BUT WE NEVER EVER USE OUR AREA AS AN EXCUSE FOR OUR PUPILS. It doesn’t matter where they’re from: they’re all fantastic and we will endeavour to give every single one of them an equal opportunity to achieve their aspirations.
I absolutely don’t agree with this particular head narrowing the curriculum by removing access to certain subjects. Pupils should legally be able to access all subjects until they make their choices and when they do (make choices) they should still be able to choose music, design and technology etc… It is a fact that this doesn’t happen.
It is also well known that Ofsted inspectors were paid to come into their school, tip them off about the next inspection and provide an incredible amount of ‘inside information‘ about what to expect at their particular inspection, which duly and conveniently followed.
I don’t agree with the isolation rules they have around lunchtime provision.
I could go on (calling people lunatics online is a dreadful look for a Headteacher; quite intentionally lying about evidence she has given to frame her narrative whilst not seeing timestamps to the contrary and then not apologising is a poor look)… and on….
They get great results with a much narrowed curriculum! If others are okay with that (remember it’s illegal), then this is not a discussion for me. For the record, I’ve been very interested by the thread. Some really good discussions either way.
J
How would you assess the good and bad schools in this scenario (and good teaching for that matter)? You won't be able to have standardised exams (and obviously exams are a pretty blunt tool when there are lots of other factors to consider as well) after you do away with the curriculum, or if you do what is on the exam would become the de facto curriculum.dsr wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:10 amActually I would do the same with teachers as I would with referees. Remove nearly all the non-teaching and non-refereeing experts who are looking over their shoulders watching their every move. Remove the national curriculum, or most of it, remove the Education Authorities, make Ofsted inspections last longer but have less regard for box ticking and more for good teaching, give the parents more choice in which schools they want to send the children too, and let the schools that can't attract pupils be closed down because if the parents think they are not good, then the parents are probably right.
Let the teachers teach. Let the "experts" mind their own business. Let the bad schools, and the bad teachers, go to the wall. Let the good schools thrive and (if appropriate) expand.
They had exams long before the national curriculum was invented. Teaching to the exam didn't start in infant reception class then,. and it won't now.aggi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:07 pmHow would you assess the good and bad schools in this scenario (and good teaching for that matter)? You won't be able to have standardised exams (and obviously exams are a pretty blunt tool when there are lots of other factors to consider as well) after you do away with the curriculum, or if you do what is on the exam would become the de facto curriculum.
For many years up until about 2010 the UK was sliding down the internationally respected PISA ratings systems.ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:10 pmThe current educational vogue is imported from America with Charter Schools and the likes of DT Willingham and E.D. Hirsch with their core knowledge curriculum. Their argument has been that creative thinking is so dependent upon knowledge it cannot be taught external to knowledge and expertise. So, the Gov't and the likes of Miss Snuffy (KB) obsess about rote learning knowledge from a very early age. In many ways KB is a remarkable person but has lost all sense of perspective to ideological dogma.
I didn't suggest Labour would do any better or should wholly reverse the last 13 years, however, empirically measuring a nations education system is notoriously difficult and Gove and Gibb placed much more emphasis on it than the previous Labour administration.Rowls wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:30 pmFor many years up until about 2010 the UK was sliding down the internationally respected PISA ratings systems.
Since the government brought in reform of the education system, we have begun to rise back up the ratings. We've made specific progress in reading following Michael Gove bringing in phonics teaching.
The countries who score highest in the international PISA ratings follow the teaching methods favoured by schools like Michaela: The have strong discipline, firm adult authority, knowledge based curricula and teacher-led lessons. If these methods are seen to be simply "in vogue" it is because they work and produce strong results:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50563833
Wales and Scotland, who have took their own route and did not follow the reforms that Gove brought in, were "dragging the the UK down" to the detriment of the UK's overall score but more importantly, to the detriment of their own children:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38230328
It's interesting you reference the PISA ratings. Beyond the Asian countries at the top the first and second European countries are Estonia and Finland who don't follow the teaching methods that "work" but instead employ a lot of those methods that you seem to preach against. It's almost like one size doesn't fit all.Rowls wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:30 pmFor many years up until about 2010 the UK was sliding down the internationally respected PISA ratings systems.
Since the government brought in reform of the education system, we have begun to rise back up the ratings. We've made specific progress in reading following Michael Gove bringing in phonics teaching.
The countries who score highest in the international PISA ratings follow the teaching methods favoured by schools like Michaela: The have strong discipline, firm adult authority, knowledge based curricula and teacher-led lessons. If these methods are seen to be simply "in vogue" it is because they work and produce strong results:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50563833
Wales and Scotland, who have took their own route and did not follow the reforms that Gove brought in, were "dragging the the UK down" to the detriment of the UK's overall score but more importantly, to the detriment of their own children:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38230328
The case of FInland is indeed very interesting. There is a good deal of lag in education between implementing a policy and seeing the results of the policy.aggi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:03 pmIt's interesting you reference the PISA ratings. Beyond the Asian countries at the top the first and second European countries are Estonia and Finland who don't follow the teaching methods that "work" but instead employ a lot of those methods that you seem to preach against. It's almost like one size doesn't fit all.
Yes, as you say: The phonics IS working brilliantly. It has been one of the few stand out successes this government has brought in.aggi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:03 pmOn Gove's reforms, the phonics may be working (the PISA test scores have stayed broadly similar if that's a measure you want to use) but I'm less convinced by some of his other ideas. I suspect I see a lot more KS2 work than a lot of the people commenting here and I do wonder whether it is really necessary for a 10 year old to pick out a fronted adverbial in a sentence.
Hi jdrobbojdrobbo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:04 pmAll the best to you, as well. I referred to her as a woman because this identifies with her selected pronouns. It’s a very interesting take that you make because, as I hope you already know, despite my dislike of her methods, I’m not one for going around and being derogatory about people. If I had referred to her as a lady, I suspect you wouldn’t have taken an issue. The fact that you did, makes me feel as though you are wanting to alienate people on your own thread....
I really do not understand why you're so against this policy? KB has stated many times that it wouldn't be appropriate for all schools. They didn't start with this policy but they found that the discipline and authority of the classrooms was being undermined by bad behaviour and bullying in the corridors. Hence they brought the rule in.jdrobbo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:21 pmIt’s not appropriate to demand absolute silence at all times for all pupils in corridors. I don’t think such transitions help children for every day life but my main view is that some pupils may have special needs and find it very traumatic. Remember, it’s ALL pupils, no exceptions.
I really have to pick you up on the assertion that KB mentions this "as an excuse". She does no such thing.jdrobbo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:21 pmI don’t agree with her constant references to the inner city…as I’ve alludes, the area I work in has been in the bottom 1% nationwide for social deprivation on numerous occasions in the last 20 years. Our pupils (almost all) start with no English and their exit progress is frankly ginormous (results above national average despite a four year English language learning deficit)….BUT WE NEVER EVER USE OUR AREA AS AN EXCUSE FOR OUR PUPILS. It doesn’t matter where they’re from: they’re all fantastic and we will endeavour to give every single one of them an equal opportunity to achieve their aspirations.
KB is completely unrepetentant about the narrow curriculum. She has stated that it ensures the children put proper focus into the core subjects that serve them best to progress in life.jdrobbo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:21 pmI absolutely don’t agree with this particular head narrowing the curriculum by removing access to certain subjects. Pupils should legally be able to access all subjects until they make their choices and when they do (make choices) they should still be able to choose music, design and technology etc… It is a fact that this doesn’t happen.
I can't find anything about this. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. However, the Michaela School isn't averse to scrutiny. Not only does it receive many times more scrutiny than almost any other schools, it actively courts scrutiny and welcomes visitors every day to this end.jdrobbo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:21 pmIt is also well known that Ofsted inspectors were paid to come into their school, tip them off about the next inspection and provide an incredible amount of ‘inside information‘ about what to expect at their particular inspection, which duly and conveniently followed.
Fair enough if you don't agree with them but how would you enforce payment for lunch? If none of the parents pay for the lunches, the school would face a reported half a million black hole in its budget. The policy was brought in because there was a growing culture of parent's simply not paying for the school lunches.
She doesn't always come across superbly on online platforms and perhaps should use them less. But she gets constant abuse thrown her way. Though I don't agree with everything she says, I think she is usually very reserved and polite online.
I can't believe that you'd remove yourself entirely from a debate because such a tiny difference of opinion. The Michaela School curriculum clearly conforms to the national curriculum so I'm not sure why you've made this into your hill to die upon?
Hi again jdrobbo
Rowls wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:57 pmHi again jdrobbo…
However, given the amazing success she's achieved at Michaela School I would have thought you'd be more generous in your appraisal of her.
Given that, by the Progress 8 measure at least, she's run the best school in the country for two years running, is there anything you could think of where you'd be able to say something along the lines of "Well, it's not what we do in the school I work in for X reason, but it's clearly bringing in great results for KB at Michaela so fair play to her and the school and well done!" ?