McNeil is younger than Twine!!!

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:55 pm

This seems mad to me. But there's a point to bringing this up. We're bringing in a lot of young lads and we're hoping they develop as players, help bring us success etc. I've been resigned to losing Cornet almost definitely, and of the others we have Brownhill, McNeil, and Collins, at least two of whom I'd hope we are able to retain. Collins is going to the very top of the game, but we've only ever seen him in a system in which defenders always thrive, whereas McNeil has not in his time at Burnley had the luxury players like Collins, Tarky, Mee, Keane have had in playing a system set up to accentuate their strengths. With this in mind, and what we think we know of Kompany's style, is Dwight the single player most important player for us to keep? To me at least he is. I keep on forgetting how young he is. By some accounts VK likes his forwards to come in narrow, and when you consider the flashes of brilliance Dwight has shown from central positions, does this make him our crown jewel of those attracting interest? Apologies if starting a new thread clutters up the board. I'd be happy for this to be merged with another thread if so; I just didn't want to interfere with the transfer thread.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:01 pm

I don’t think in this context it matters quite as much as you’re attributing to it; McNeil maybe ‘young’ but he’s played 134 PL games for Burnley so he is in fact experienced.

If he was just breaking on to the scene then yeah that’s entirely different - Twine is just getting started comparatively.

I think he could still be a good player for us but it wouldn’t suprise me if VK isn’t entirely sold on him; I also don’t think he fits his system well.

To me Dwight is an old fashioned wide midfielder that could probably play as modern day wing back but I don’t think he is the sort of between the line attacking midfielder that VK likes to employ.

Could be wrong though.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:02 pm

Not for me. Does not work hard enough out of possession and switches off at key moments as a result. I would suggest far from the jewel in the crown, talented as he undoubtably us, he was a luxury we simply could not afford last season and really has to buck up this year. I would be very surprised if any PL manager is seriously looking at him as a starter.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:02 pm

No. He is poor. Whatever he had a couple of years ago it has gone. Too much to young. Our own Deli Alli.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:06 pm

Young players will have plenty of ups and downs. Dwight wasn’t great last year but he’s still a damn good player.

Our system wasn’t the best for him. There was a big expectation defensively, on top of a big and unfair expectation on him from the fans, following his hugely positive introduction into the team.

He will have learned from last season and, should he stay, I think we will see a very different McNeil this season.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:11 pm

DCWat wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:06 pm
Young players will have plenty of ups and downs. Dwight wasn’t great last year but he’s still a damn good player.

Our system wasn’t the best for him. There was a big expectation defensively, on top of a big and unfair expectation on him from the fans, following his hugely positive introduction into the team.

He will have learned from last season and, should he stay, I think we will see a very different McNeil this season.

Well said,
and even in what many say was a bad season he was still just about the most entertaining player we had.

dandeclaret · Post by **dandeclaret** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:14 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:02 pm
No. He is poor. Whatever he had a couple of years ago it has gone. Too much to young. Our own Deli Alli.

Poor?

**** me, you’re in for a shock this year if you think McNeill is poor.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:15 pm

Some nonsense on here about the lad.

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:18 pm

McNeil will be an absolute joke in the Championship if we manage to retain him. I think a season being as dominant as I believe he will be is exactly what he needs to get his confidence back.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:19 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:02 pm
No. He is poor. Whatever he had a couple of years ago it has gone. Too much to young. Our own Deli Alli.

That’s got to be up there for some of the biggest pile of rubbish I’ve read on this board

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:19 pm

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:14 pm
Poor?

**** me, you’re in for a shock this year if you think McNeill is poor.

no assists no goals no pace one foot no head no tricks and whist a couple of years ago he looked like he could cross a ball now he doesn’t look like he could cross the road. He is a very poor player and one of the reasons we were relegated.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:21 pm

He has the potential to be phenomenal in the Championship.

People forget he’s played all his football at Premier League level, in a stifling system and still for the most part been the Jewell in our crown.

I hope we keep him, he could tear it up.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:21 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:19 pm
no assists no goals no pace one foot no head no tricks and whist a couple of years ago he looked like he could cross a ball now he doesn’t look like he could cross the road. He is a very poor player and one of the reasons we were relegated.

And how many more than reasonable chances did he lay on only to see them wasted?

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:23 pm

Not many. You can’t have it that our strikers are starved of chances and then say, oh but McNeil is a great player.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:26 pm

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:28 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:23 pm
Not many. You can’t have it that our strikers are starved of chances and then say, oh but McNeil is a great player.

I can't recall having said they were starved of chances.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:30 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:23 pm
Not many. You can’t have it that our strikers are starved of chances and then say, oh but McNeil is a great player.

After a brilliant start - I think it’s fair to say that he was the catalyst to keeping us up when he came into the team - his form did drop.

Isn’t it fair to suggest that because other teams became more aware of the threat that he possessed, his job became all the more difficult. Add to this the struggles that the team as a whole faced last season, is it right to now see him as “a very poor player”.

You’ve got to give young players time, accept that they’ll have ups and downs and realise that consistency comes with age.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:30 pm

Not you in particular but it has been said a lot on this board… mainly because it is true.

We will see. My opinion is that the best of Dwight is behind him. You all think he will do well. I hope you are right. However there doesn’t seem a lot of Premier League interest in him.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:32 pm

DCWat wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:30 pm
After a brilliant start - I think it’s fair to say that he was the catalyst to keeping us up when he came into the team - his form did drop.

Isn’t it fair to suggest that because other teams became more aware of the threat that he possessed, his job became all the more difficult. Add to this the struggles that the team as a whole faced last season, is it right to now see him as “a very poor player”.

You’ve got to give young players time, accept that they’ll have ups and downs and realise that consistency comes with age.

Or some players just never realise their early promise. Either outcome is possible.

Oh and i agree i almost single handed lay kept us up in his breakthrough season. But like I said he has gone backwards and I see no sign of that reversing.

taio · Post by **taio** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:33 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:30 pm
Not you in particular but it has been said a lot on this board… mainly because it is true.

We will see. My opinion is that the best of Dwight is behind him. You all think he will do well. I hope you are right. However there doesn’t seem a lot of Premier League interest in him.

'kin hell...he's only 22.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:34 pm

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:34 pm

Just because a player is 22 doesn’t mean he gets better.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:35 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:32 pm
Or some players just never realise their early promise. Either outcome is possible.

Oh and i agree i almost single handed lay kept us up in his breakthrough season. But like I said he has gone backwards and I see no sign of that reversing.

It is, it can happen. I just think you’re jumping the gun here.

After just one season below his previously high standards, it’s far too soon to write him off.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:37 pm

Like I said I hope you are right. It gives me no pleasure to see a promising Burnley player not progress as I would have hoped and expected.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:37 pm

I’m excited to see Twine and the others we’ve brought in but I fully expect Dwight to have a better season and be more influential than those next year.

Assuming he stays with us, of course.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:38 pm

As a team we were 13th for big chances missed last season. We also hit the woodwork 15 times. Only Chelsea, Leeds, Arsenal and City hit the woodwork more. And on the big chances missed stat, like the hitting the woodwork stats, it's noticeable that the teams who missed more are far more offensive than Burnley (not a difficult task, to be fair) and because of this tend to have more opportunities to miss. So we weren't creating a lot, sure, but we were definitely blowing a lot of the chances we created. While in fairness Dwight contributed to a few of those missed chances, the stats seem to back up most folks' view that we had totally misfiring strikers all season long.

taio · Post by **taio** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:41 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:34 pm
And

AND it's unreasonable singling out and writing off such a young player.

There has been interest from PL clubs by the way.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:41 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:34 pm
Just because a player is 22 doesn’t mean he gets better.

Not necessarily, no, but on the other hand we seem to have based the entire recruitment policy on the assumption that many indeed do.

claretbob · Post by **claretbob** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:45 pm

It’s always a bit annoying when the lack of assists gets thrown at Dwight. It’s not his fault if he sets up the chances and the strikers miss! His expected assists was over 5 and that put him in the top 15 in the country. There are players with far lower ea who had 10 plus assists because they were playing with decent forwards. Lack of goals is a criticism but the boy has a sublime left foot and it will be extremely frustrating if he is sold on the cheap. I am firmly in the McNeil will light up the Championship camp.

AwayClaret · Post by **AwayClaret** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:46 pm

Let's not write him off yet. I can't see in to the future so don't know whether he's going to tear up the championship or not but he didn't have the best of seasons last season but then again not many players did hence why we went down plus he had his confidence zapped away due to the constraints of the way we set up and how he was asked to play. Young players can go through bad rough patches especially in a team thats struggling. There's so many variables to being a young footballer. And nobody knows how he'll respond to playing under a different manager and hopefully a better set up. Fir what it's worth I think VK will give him his confidence back then we'll see.

RogerBest · Post by **RogerBest** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:50 pm

McNeil is a star who has been treated poorly.

He has loads of talent and has been forced to burn himself out doing donkey work rather than, doing what he is best at which is, putting the opposition on the back foot.

In the right framework he will thrive.

I hope it is with us but would not begrudge him a move as he has given us the last two years to the detriment of his own development.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:51 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:19 pm
That’s got to be up there for some of the biggest pile of rubbish I’ve read on this board

Certainly the biggest I can remember

Mattster · Post by **Mattster** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:53 pm

Still seeing people claim Dwight doesn't work hard enough out of possession, it's a joke. He works very hard out of possession and is probably our hardest working player in possession to boot.

Only 3 players in the PL last season made over 200 tackles and completed over 200 take ons.

Richarlison (208 + 200)
Kovacic (205 + 210)
McNeil (208 + 261)

And you still regularly see people calling out his effort and saying he's lazy.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:07 pm

I’m obviously in the minority and I truly hope you are all correct.
However, ignoring the damning stats… he didn’t look to be creating a lot. A nice touch every couple of games is not enough for a player who is given the ball as often as he was. We tried to use Dwight to create things. But as a team we failed. Maybe if we had better options on the other side or through the middle it would have been different. But that is speculation. What actually happened is we had game after game with few or no chances with a system that looked to Dwight to provide them.

Oh and I don’t think he is lazy… i think defensively he is better than most creative players.

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:10 pm

Rather than take the view that McNeils form was one of the reasons Burnley went down I prefer to think that his form in previous seasons was the major reason they stayed up.

It’s a well worn cliche but form is temporary etc.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:17 pm

Why do people act like an old maid whose had a bucket of p1ss thrown over them if they don’t agree on a player ?

While Dwight’s an undoubted talent , and he should tear up the champ .With occasional notable exceptions he’s been average the last 2 seasons, and his general poor crossing , lack of goals/confidence and being very one footed can be frustrating for fans . I really hope we keep him though as when confident he’s a delight to watch .

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:23 pm

andyh wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:19 pm
no assists no goals no pace one foot no head no tricks and whist a couple of years ago he looked like he could cross a ball now he doesn’t look like he could cross the road. He is a very poor player and one of the reasons we were relegated.

He is the only Burnley player that other teams targeted to keep quiet. Keep McNeil quiet and you keep Burnley quiet.
Dyche never gave him a foil to partner with.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:37 pm

Nonayforever wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:23 pm
He is the only Burnley player that other teams targeted to keep quiet. Keep McNeil quiet and you keep Burnley quiet.
Dyche never gave him a foil to partner with.

Yes I agree.. but he was kept quiet for the whole year. Now you can chose to say “if he had better players around him” or “if we had more outlets”. The thing is that is speculation. What happened was we as a team and Dwight as an individual were not creative enough. There was an expectation on him that he didn’t live up to. Now maybe Dyche should have given him a different role or used tactics that lightened his load. But he didn’t and Dwight was poor for around half the matches.

Maybe a change of manager, tactics, style and opposition gives him another roll of the dice but if he has a season like last year (and he could well have) he will not play in the Premier League again.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:49 pm

McNeil is now poor?

F**k me

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:52 pm

I can’t believe there are so many detractors to McNeil, and think it’s just a case of the negative ones being the most vocal.

Did he have a great overall season? No. Nobody really did as we got relegated. Sure, one or two stood out such as Tarkowski and Pope, and McNeil in a poor side wasn’t great. In the games he did performs well he was great. His touch first class.

When you look at him as a player he’s slick, has great ball control, can beat a man (when confidence is high), can cross, and works hard (when confidence is high). The negatives are that his work rate drops dramatically when his confidence is shot at and he’s having a stinker, something which doesn’t happen to great players as they battle away despite their form.

Give the lad a break. He is our best player for me now (Collins is raw but will go to the top), and at Championship level will shine!

We either need McNeil playing for us, or need £20m+ compensation for having to try and replace him.

I know it’s all about opinions and what individuals feel, and my view is that those sayings he’s worth nothing and they’d get rid cheaply are off their heads and haven’t watched us over the past few seasons.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:16 pm

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:02 pm
Not for me. Does not work hard enough out of possession and switches off at key moments as a result. I would suggest far from the jewel in the crown, talented as he undoubtably us, he was a luxury we simply could not afford last season and really has to buck up this year. I would be very surprised if any PL manager is seriously looking at him as a starter.

This is an interesting one where the perception and the stats don't marry.

Looking at our regular starters he's second in pressures and pretty high up in blocks, tackles and interceptions. The stats suggest he works harder off the ball than most of the team.

Juan Tanamera · Post by **Juan Tanamera** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:49 pm

I always have a little chuckle at the comments of McNeill being predominantly left footed.
Supporters of a certain vintage will remember Doug Collins, who couldn't tackle, couldn't/wouldn't head the ball and had little pace.
He could also tie himself in knots like McNeill by taking on too many players.
But, just like we know McNeill can do, he set up many chances with that left foot.
So does being so one footed really matter?

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:57 pm

There's a right bell end on this thread. And it's not me.

welsbyswife · Post by **welsbyswife** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:09 pm

The minute I read a post which says that Dwight could be a "modern day wingback" I realise the poster is watching a completely different game to me. I just can't fathom who would look at Dwight and think wing back.

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:08 am

"Kiss me with your mouth"

"McNeil is younger than Twine!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxBd2tG ... nnel=mtk84

clive40golf · Post by **clive40golf** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:13 am

I think it’s worth a note that ONeils natural facial features and his Physical standing make him look like he’s lacking confidence and not enjoying himself. Even when he smiles/laughs he doesn’t have that assured, confident luck. I hope he stays, gets played in the right way, gets some of the defensive duties lifted from him,the ones where he has to track so far back, that his attacking attributes are nullified.
Another poster likened him to Deli Ali, personally I wouldn’t mind if we had a go at trying to get Ali cheap. I think VK really could turn this young man around.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:53 am

Totally agree with the OP. Mc Neil would [hopefully will] thrive under Kompany, and he is our main player.

ClaretPete001 · Post by **ClaretPete001** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:36 am

aggi wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:16 pm
This is an interesting one where the perception and the stats don't marry.

Looking at our regular starters he's second in pressures and pretty high up in blocks, tackles and interceptions. The stats suggest he works harder off the ball than most of the team.

I wonder if that would have been true 5 or 6 years ago when we had Westwood and Cork in their prime along with Hendrick, Arfield and Marney.

Stats deal in numbers, measure more qualitative judgements, like effectiveness and quality, less easily.

To the naked eye, Mc Neil looks less defensively effective than when going forward. It could be because he has a languid manner or it could be because he is not particularly effective and the stats are blunt instrument to measure presses.

Saying that I think he is a super talent and looked renewed in MJs first couple of games. He has quick feet but he doesn't seem to have the power and pace of a Cornet and that is perhaps what the Premiership looks for....!

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:49 am

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:36 am
I wonder if that would have been true 5 or 6 years ago when we had Westwood and Cork in their prime along with Hendrick, Arfield and Marney.

Stats deal in numbers, measure more qualitative judgements, like effectiveness and quality, less easily.

To the naked eye, Mc Neil looks less defensively effective than when going forward. It could be because he has a languid manner or it could be because he is not particularly effective and the stats are blunt instrument to measure presses.

Saying that I think he is a super talent and looked renewed in MJs first couple of games. He has quick feet but he doesn't seem to have the power and pace of a Cornet and that is perhaps what the Premiership looks for....!

Looking back at the stats (FBRef) we did press more 5 or 6 years ago. However, when you look at the seasons that McNeil played he is consistently near the top of those stats so it's hard to make a judgement.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:50 am

I'm amazed at some of the comments regarding Dwight on this thread, sure he didn't enjoy a good season last year, but he certainly wasn't alone in that.

And now we're in the Championship, plus under new management with Kompany he'll thrive, and I'll wager he'll be in the Championship team of the season come next May.

Firstly under Kompany we'll play a more attractive attacking brand of football, and given he'll also have someone like Twine to ease the burden on him as the sole creator, Dwight will be a player with a new lease of life in my view.