We are good enough to go up

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:10 pm

1 defeat all season.

2nd highest scorers in the league.

2 points off the top.

Haven’t left 1st gear yet.

Key attacking player yet to play more than 20 minutes.

Thoughts?

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:13 pm

We're good enough and we're going to get better.

jen1066 · Post by **jen1066** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:15 pm

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:10 pm
1 defeat all season.

2nd highest scorers in the league.

2 points off the top.

Haven’t left 1st gear yet.

Key attacking player yet to play more than 20 minutes.

Thoughts?

And going off what Bellamy says, this is merely the warm-up season.

Swizzlestick · Post by **Swizzlestick** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:15 pm

We have to fix some things and i’d like VK to choose a more settled defence but we can absolutely get promoted from this league. We have quality on the ball, just need to channel that ruthless streak.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:16 pm

Hard to argue with the facts you've listed but I don't know. I thought the possession stuff was great at first but it's pretty tedious to watch. Distinct lack of creativity and very nervy at the back. Very much still a work in progress but the points on the board and single defeat are very positive.

jen1066 · Post by **jen1066** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:16 pm

Another for the list - given away at least 8 points from not killing off games. That's a positive, as it shows the potential once we sort that out more often.

jen1066 · Post by **jen1066** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:17 pm

Neil wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:16 pm
Hard to argue with the facts you've listed but I don't know. I thought the possession stuff was great at first but it's pretty tedious to watch.

But if you don't like 'Dyche-ball' (in the air) and you don't like passing across the ground, what's left?

Massivefloodlights · Post by **Massivefloodlights** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:17 pm

We are running away with it

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:18 pm

jen1066 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:17 pm
But if you don't like 'Dyche-ball' (in the air) and you don't like passing across the ground, what's left?

Quite a lot......

Superjohnnyfrancis · Post by **Superjohnnyfrancis** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:19 pm

jen1066 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:17 pm
But if you don't like 'Dyche-ball' (in the air) and you don't like passing across the ground, what's left?

The big difference today is that the ball was travelling forwards not sideways all the time. They have taken the criticism on the chin as expected, well done lads.

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:19 pm

Neil wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:16 pm
Hard to argue with the facts you've listed but I don't know. I thought the possession stuff was great at first but it's pretty tedious to watch. Distinct lack of creativity and very nervy at the back. Very much still a work in progress but the points on the board and single defeat are very positive.

How is there a distinct lack of quality? Distinct? Really? It might be not as frequent or as ruthless as we'd like yet or as it needs to be. But a distinct lack of quality? Sorry, opinions, but that's wrong.

jen1066 · Post by **jen1066** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:19 pm

Neil wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:18 pm
Quite a lot......

If only.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:20 pm

Seriously?
The last 5 matches have had the same pattern, score early desperate defending in the last 20 minutes, this time we got away with it.
We have not played any good teams yet.
Currently, we will be lucky to be mid-table at the end of the season.
Twine won't ever play for us - new vydra/drinkwater/gibson/howe.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:20 pm

Pickles wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:19 pm
How is there a distinct lack of quality? Distinct? Really? It might be not as frequent or as ruthless as we'd like yet or as it needs to be. But a distinct lack of quality? Sorry, opinions, but that's wrong.

Read it again

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:21 pm

Neil wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:16 pm
Hard to argue with the facts you've listed but I don't know. I thought the possession stuff was great at first but it's pretty tedious to watch. Distinct lack of creativity and very nervy at the back. Very much still a work in progress but the points on the board and single defeat are very positive.

We do need some more creativity I agree but for example that was Zaroury’s first start in English football, 21 years old. There’s potential there. Like I mentioned in the OP I think Twine (when fit) adds another gear to this team and I would be shocked if I’m wrong.

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:22 pm

Neil wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:20 pm
Read it again

Creativity. I meant creativity, was too late to edit. Point still stands.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:22 pm

brexit wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:20 pm
Seriously?
The last 5 matches have had the same pattern, score early desperate defending in the last 20 minutes, this time we got away with it.
We have not played any good teams yet.
Currently, we will be lucky to be mid-table at the end of the season.
Twine won't ever play for us - new vydra/drinkwater/gibson/howe.

Not sure what the funniest part of that is tbf

jen1066 · Post by **jen1066** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:23 pm

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:22 pm

Not sure what the funniest part of that is tbf

I think he has a rod in his hand.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:25 pm

brexit wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:20 pm
Seriously?
The last 5 matches have had the same pattern, score early desperate defending in the last 20 minutes, this time we got away with it.
We have not played any good teams yet.
Currently, we will be lucky to be mid-table at the end of the season.
Twine won't ever play for us - new vydra/drinkwater/gibson/howe.

Howe??? I missed him being player manager.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:26 pm

jen1066 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:23 pm
I think he has a rod in his hand.

Hairwing 6/0

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:26 pm

Pickles wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:22 pm
Creativity. I meant creativity, was too late to edit. Point still stands.

I don't think it does. Jay comes deep too much and isn't replaced in the box. There is very little goal threat. We don't pass through teams, we pass around them. If you think there isn't a distinct lack of creativity that's just wrong. I'm not having a go at the team at all. As I said its a work in progress. I'm just giving my thoughts on the opening comment.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:31 pm

I expect is to go up comfortably, hiccups along the way but this league looks incredibly poor and “ feels” a lot weaker than the 2nd SD promotion season .

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:32 pm

brexit wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:20 pm

We have not played any good teams yet.

There's a reason for that. There aren't any.

We've played a cross-section of what's around and they're much of a muchness.

Judge us around early Feb.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:33 pm

We score a lot of goals for a team with a distinct lack of creativity.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:36 pm

Tella will get 20 goals, we need to open talks on a permanent deal, he is a class act

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:36 pm

Neil wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:26 pm
I don't think it does. Jay comes deep too much and isn't replaced in the box. There is very little goal threat. We don't pass through teams, we pass around them. If you think there isn't a distinct lack of creativity that's just wrong. I'm not having a go at the team at all. As I said its a work in progress. I'm just giving my thoughts on the opening comment.

Tbf Jay had two decent chances today.

One where he had to go across goal and the other if he uses his right foot he beats the defender to it.

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:38 pm

Neil wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:26 pm
I don't think it does. Jay comes deep too much and isn't replaced in the box. There is very little goal threat. We don't pass through teams, we pass around them. If you think there isn't a distinct lack of creativity that's just wrong. I'm not having a go at the team at all. As I said its a work in progress. I'm just giving my thoughts on the opening comment.

Fair enough. The passing is designed to stretch teams, causing them to lose shape and it's been effective. Is it a bit frustrating? Absolutely. Passing through teams takes it up a level and we have to be patient with that. It's happened some times and it'll happen again more regularly.

There's room for improvement but of course there is. There should be room for improvement. It would be a freak if there wasn't. Only Sheffield United have scored more than us, and that's only by one goal. We can't lack creativity that much.

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:38 pm

One point to note is that I heard on the radio today that Sheff Utd have an injury crisis and they had to blood a couple of kids in their game today. I think our squad will show its benefit when we hit the really busy period and injuries and suspensions start to kick in. Don't forget we have twine and Westwood to come back into the mix also. Feel like we need to go all out for a striker in January though.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:39 pm

Let’s see how we get on after playing someone decent. Some positives, the biggest one was keeping a clean sheet

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:42 pm

jen1066 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:23 pm
I think he has a rod in his hand.

Thats one way of putting it jen

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:42 pm

Define decent though? Luton, PNE and Cardiff are in the top 10 and they were classed as easy fodder on here a few weeks ago

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:46 pm

Pickles wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:38 pm
Fair enough. The passing is designed to stretch teams, causing them to lose shape and it's been effective. Is it a bit frustrating? Absolutely. Passing through teams takes it up a level and we have to be patient with that. It's happened some times and it'll happen again more regularly.

There's room for improvement but of course there is. There should be room for improvement. It would be a freak if there wasn't. Only Sheffield United have scored more than us, and that's only by one goal. We can't lack creativity that much.

I understand the theory Pickles and I'm not overly frustrated. Maybe a little. If you don't see any of our games and you read the stats on possession, corners etc you'd think we were totally dominant every week.
I just think we need to show more chances and shots on goal from 70% possession. I agree with RV that if we had a fit Twine in the side it would improve speed and creativity.

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:49 pm

Neil wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:46 pm
I understand the theory Pickles and I'm not overly frustrated. Maybe a little. If you don't see any of our games and you read the stats on possession, corners etc you'd think we were totally dominant every week.
I just think we need to show more chances and shots on goal from 70% possession. I agree with RV that if we had a fit Twine in the side it would improve speed and creativity.

We are dominant every week on the whole, until the last five or ten minutes. We need to turn possession into more chances and goals, agreed.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:51 pm

We definitely need a striker as Rodriguez looks like a frustrated midfielder and Barnes isn't the answer

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:51 pm

Ric_C wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:42 pm
Define decent though? Luton, PNE and Cardiff are in the top 10 and they were classed as easy fodder on here a few weeks ago

Yep and the three teams we have played in the top ten we drew against.

The next month will be a good indication we will be playing against promotion rivals. Specifically Norwich, Sheffield, reading and Swansea

Swizzlestick · Post by **Swizzlestick** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:51 pm

This ‘let’s wait until we’ve played somebody decent’ line is getting tedious. PNE beat Norwich today. Bristol City were the form team when we played them and we beat them. It’s just looks like a reach to me.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:52 pm

we are nowhere near playing to our level, this could be a great season. I for one am enjoying all the games and the 3 pm kick offs

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:52 pm

Pickles wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:49 pm
We are dominant every week on the whole, until the last five or ten minutes. We need to turn possession into more chances and goals, agreed.

Dominant in our own half yes

I don't think our opinions are that far apart haha

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:56 pm

There's still only 9 points between 4th and 21st. All this top half bottom half stuff is largely meaningless at this stage.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:58 pm

I keep reading that we pass it around at the back and oaky in our own half.

Must admit it doesn’t feel like that to me. We do use the centre half’s but we don’t overuse them and they do break out.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:05 pm

Scored in every game bar Watford. For a team with players still making debut starts for us, even into October, and others yet to even play a full half for us, that's not bad. Sure, we don't crucify every team we play, but again, new team etc. Perspective is important, otherwise fans become insufferably arrogant. It's not brainless happy clapping to be realistic about where this team ought to be. If anything, we're much further ahead of where a lot of people expected by this stage.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:06 pm

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:56 pm
There's still only 9 points between 4th and 21st. All this top half bottom half stuff is largely meaningless at this stage.

When we were in for Obafemi and Swansea didn't sell either him or Piroe, there were many saying they were doomed this season and then again next season when they are forced to sell at a reduced price.

Roll on less than six weeks and they have won five from the last six games and that loss at home to Sheffield United came in injury time, that's six points from their first seven games and fifteen from the next six, just above the relegation zone to top six in the blink of an eye.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:10 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:58 pm
I keep reading that we pass it around at the back and oaky in our own half.

Must admit it doesn’t feel like that to me. We do use the centre half’s but we don’t overuse them and they do break out.

Our issue at the minute is playing the same way in a deeper position in the latter stages of games, there simply isn't an out ball once the zip has gone from the likes of Jay and Tella later in the second half.

The return to fitness of Twine and Churlinov is important for the wider role and number ten but we MUST bring in a new number nine in January, with pace to stretch sides when we are sitting on a tight lead.

As for the post last week about not being good enough to go up, I'm actually more confident than when the season started, it's so frustrating to lose leads at the end of games but we have all the attributes to beat any side at this level, if we didn't I'd be far more concerned.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:13 pm

We aren’t as convincing as I’d like us to be yet. I’d still like to see us win some matches 3-0/2-0 (wouldn’t we all?).

Heartening that we still have Twine and Churlinov injured and Dervisoglu not in the squad as that would probably be a very effective front 3 for a lot of teams in the Championship. The sooner these players are fit and available the stronger we will be and might be able to put teams out of sight a bit better.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:15 pm

The more pertinent question is whether we are good enough to stay up next season. That would be a concern.

Getting there feels the easy bit.

The “feel” of the matches is that we are dominant but need craft at one end and resilience at the other to make our scores more dominant like the performance. We went for these players, the Metz lad, O’Hare, the lad who went to Besiktas. Logic says the cash remains ready. We have Twine and Churlinov injured.

Then we have the stats - top 5 in expected goals, and bottom 5 in expected goals conceded, highest shots on target percentage. One of the highest save percentages, highest possession. These all point to us going up. I feel we will unless we get bad luck aplenty.

We’ve also played the other best side in the league away from home - West Brom. Yes, sounds bizarre given the table, but they are top of expected goals and bottom of expected goals conceded (i.e. they are just wasteful not bad). Against us, they looked like it too. So I’ve seen nothing to worry about.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:17 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:15 pm
The more pertinent question is whether we are good enough to stay up next season.

The answer is no. But we wouldn't have the same team if we went up so it's a moot point.

MancunianClaret · Post by **MancunianClaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:17 pm

brexit wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:20 pm
Currently, we will be lucky to be mid-table at the end of the season.
Twine won't ever play for us - new vydra/drinkwater/gibson/howe.

Where'd you get your infallible crystal ball?

"Brexit" - edgy opinions - clear troll. Welcome to the block list.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:18 pm

Definitely though I think its less likely than Factual Franks new moniker being permanently banned from this forum before the seasons out

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:20 pm

A resurgent Swansea will be a real test next week.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:22 pm

ElectroClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:20 pm
A resurgent Swansea will be a real test next week.

Interesting match up. Both teams possession focused so will it be 50/50 or will we still look to dominate the ball. Either way it should be a good game from two footballing sides.