Today was an absolute disgrace

[SimonSays]

on this board on the whole. We lost a match, so what. Move on and bloody enjoy it. You bunch of big babies. Dear god

[bfcjg]

on this board on the whole. We lost a match, so what? Move on and bloody enjoy it. You bunch of big babies. Dear God.

Just had to.

[burnleymik]

Not sure why you come here if you dislike different opinions so much? You keep saying the same thing...

Of course there are some over-reactions, but each to their own.

[Devils_Advocate]

[Burnley1989]

He’s right

[tiger76]

Haven't read through all the threads, but when we lose 5-2 then it's only fair to expect a negative response to that defeat.

And we can hardly say that score line didn't reflect the game over the 90 minutes.

It's fine looking fantastic going forward, but if we defend like headless chickens as has been the case over several weeks now, then teams will know where they can hurt us and Sheff Utd certainly exploited our shortcomings.

Hopefully it's just a one off at a good side and we can get back in the saddle next Sunday.

[NRC]

From what I’ve read there is very little evidence from posters of “we’re crap.” What I’m reading is that, with the benefit of hindsight todays defeat was avoidable by making a side’s selection based on horses for courses

[warksclaret]

Sadly having just watched the game again, certain performances look worse than the first time. Few guys went missing, but lets move on and learn from our mistakes

[Aclaret]

Sadly having just watched the game again, certain performances look worse than the first time. Few guys went missing, but lets move on and learn from our mistakes

Blimey, you sat through it again ?

[warksclaret]

Blimey, you sat through it again ?

YES-the first half, if you are a neutral is as good a 45 minutes you will see in the Championship, and worth it just to watch Benson again. I find you see things the second time you missed . You really see the players who are hiding and dont commit to a challenge, but I am not going to share that in case of being perceived negative

[Jamesy]

on this board on the whole. We lost a match, so what. Move on and bloody enjoy it. You bunch of big babies. Dear god

Simon Says…….. Put your hands in the air, let yer backbone slip. Ad nauseum.

[Hipper]

From what I’ve read there is very little evidence from posters of “we’re crap.” What I’m reading is that, with the benefit of hindsight todays defeat was avoidable by making a side’s selection based on horses for courses

It's not hindsight though.

Many including me thought the side lacked height and knew we were suspect at corners. Anyone whose seen anything of Sheffield United will know how good they are with corners and throw-ins. They also should have been aware that energy levels of our players may struggle after a long game on Wednesday (something I didn't pay too much attention to beforehand). Energy levels are the key to us keeping sides at bay.

Surely it is the job of our management to be aware of these issues but it seems they thought we would get by (VK's comments after the game seem to support this). They were spectacularly wrong, hence the criticism.

Let's hope lessons are learnt and we continue to improve.

[Jamesy]

It wasn’t a disgrace, I would say it was more of a wake up call. The signs were there on Wednesday night the way Rotherham pressed us and troubled us on several occasions, when they weren’t wasting time sh!thousing.
Sheffield United cruelly exposed our weaknesses at the back. We have a giant of a keeper who cannot cope with any high balls or physical presence and no command of his area and that didn’t just start yesterday. Coupled with this we have got defenders who are not very adept at getting their heads on the ball or clearing their lines. Again it has been this way all season, however because we have been so good in the other two thirds of the pitch we have compensated for these weaknesses. Albeit with too many draws.
We are good going forwards and creating chances and Vincent has found some exciting young talent. However if we don’t develop a strong jaw at the back, several teams with the right sort of players will do this to us again.
I know I am going to get pelters for suggesting it but Beyer needs to be dropped and big Kevin Long needs to be in central defence alongside THB. Additionally, Charlie Taylor needs to replace Maatsen as this lad is good going forwards but he cannot defend. Then get Bailey PF between the sticks and we might have a defensive unit that can actually defend?

[Belial]

We're still a work in progress. We've come on a lot when it comes to attacking but it's clear we've lots of work to do defensively and if there was ever a game to highlight where we need to improve its this one. Move on and have faith

[GrahamBranchsPerm]

Sure Vinny will get us back on the horse, he's an intelligent winner and not stubborn in his thought process.

He'll use the next month after the Bastards game to work out where to strenghthen to get us over the line in the top 2. Reckon he will weigh up GK (and I think he will stick this season), striker (to de risk a Jay injury) - I think he will push hard here, and CH (prob play McNally Tuesday to see how his coaching has bedded in - a unit who might be very useful from the bench on such occasions like yesterday).

VK and Pace will be thinking the Belgium shopping mall has proved itself. Benson and Zaroury have clearly appreciated massively so the model works, Bastien is solid enough, so they now know the Belgium league defo stacks up at being better than Champ level. So might push hard again for a striker or a big CH who can play from there.

He will have been through this with the likes of City, where the odd style is just harder to handle given the skills / make up / physical composition of the team playing against. Most games we control the ball so much, it limits the number of corners and throws and even then, Sheff U have two very good strikers at this level and they made it count / capitalised.

There was always a chance Sheff U away was the perfect storm and unfort that how it turned up. More frustrating as if we see out the first 15 after half time we prob win or draw. Credit to SU though.

Most teams who play that style are no where near as good as Sheff U. Thinking Millwall next best? And we beat them easily enough as they could not get the ball off us. And not saying Sheff U are the best thing since sliced bread - that style might not work against Rotherham on Tuesday night for example. They are our biggest challengers though and I think we both go up.

We need to capitalise on this unreal start to the season. Got to get through the next two games in a good place and no better league game coming to dispel the doubts of a heavy loss.

UTC

[GrahamBranchsPerm]

PS - Taylor for Maatsen been saying it for weeks. Maatsen I'd pick against fodder we need to beat at home but he's a poor defender and cheats positionally. See Blackpool 2nd goal / Rotherham and more. We are good enough not to take these risks and Taylor gives us the height. Not saying every game, but away / vs aerially strong oppo.

UTC

[ClaretPete001]

I think with a game on Wednesday and the loss of Jay Rod and Brownhill this was always going to be an uphill struggle. In addition, Cullen has been injured and Cork is 33 and is going to struggle to play matches little more than 2 days apart.

However, it was a horror show second half show and Muric was very much central to that...!

Benson wasn't great for two of their goals nor was Jack Cork so it wasn't all about the defence and goalkeeper.

Did they win headers because they were taller and stronger: possibly, but as often as not they were completely unmarked in the box.

Have we been naive throughout the whole season: yes. Have we been vulnerable to that kind of team: again yes but we are top of the league.

I'd say that after 20 games you'd have to think that if we keep going as we are good enough to compete for those two top spots. The only real danger is the loss of Jay Rod and the central midfielders. The young players are just that and in some cases you can see why they are struggling to make it in the PL even with the considerable talent they have.

So, no concerns for this season; however, the system and style of play works best when you have the best players in the world - when you don't it can look a bit shambolic. Fortunately, we have the best squad in this division but whether we are building on sand is another matter.

[Chester Perry]

Sure Vinny will get us back on the horse, he's an intelligent winner and not stubborn in his thought process.

He'll use the next month after the Bastards game to work out where to strenghthen to get us over the line in the top

It was announced that VK is part of the BBC's World Cup broadcasting team - let's hope he is just working from a studio in Manchester and not out in Qatar

[ClaretPete001]

Sure Vinny will get us back on the horse, he's an intelligent winner and not stubborn in his thought process.

He'll use the next month after the Bastards game to work out where to strenghthen to get us over the line in the top 2. Reckon he will weigh up GK (and I think he will stick this season), striker (to de risk a Jay injury) - I think he will push hard here, and CH (prob play McNally Tuesday to see how his coaching has bedded in - a unit who might be very useful from the bench on such occasions like yesterday).

VK and Pace will be thinking the Belgium shopping mall has proved itself. Benson and Zaroury have clearly appreciated massively so the model works, Bastien is solid enough, so they now know the Belgium league defo stacks up at being better than Champ level. So might push hard again for a striker or a big CH who can play from there.

He will have been through this with the likes of City, where the odd style is just harder to handle given the skills / make up / physical composition of the team playing against. Most games we control the ball so much, it limits the number of corners and throws and even then, Sheff U have two very good strikers at this level and they made it count / capitalised.

There was always a chance Sheff U away was the perfect storm and unfort that how it turned up. More frustrating as if we see out the first 15 after half time we prob win or draw. Credit to SU though.

Most teams who play that style are no where near as good as Sheff U. Thinking Millwall next best? And we beat them easily enough as they could not get the ball off us. And not saying Sheff U are the best thing since sliced bread - that style might not work against Rotherham on Tuesday night for example. They are our biggest challengers though and I think we both go up.

We need to capitalise on this unreal start to the season. Got to get through the next two games in a good place and no better league game coming to dispel the doubts of a heavy loss.

UTC

Good post but a few caveats. I wouldn't assume there is any money to make any real changes. I'm not sure Benson and Zaroury have really increased their value neither looked great off the ball yesterday. Benson in particularly had a Jeckyl and Hyde afternoon.

We didn't comfortably beat Millwall - they made us look very ordinary for much of the game. Again, Benson turned that one around with a blistering last 20 minutes as he did against Rotherham.

Prior to playing Rovers and QPR you would have to think that ourselves and Sheffield United are the best teams in the division. Rovers have lost 8 games and we comfortable beat Norwich. I think with Jay Rod and Brownhill back we will be a different proposition.

Sheffield United have suffered because of injuries and injuries may prove a factor with the big mid-season break.

[GrahamBranchsPerm]

Think it just gives him decent thinking time Chester. Anyone who stands out at the WC will be snapped up by bigger clubs, but I feel it's good he's out of the day to day environment / on a few long haul flights. That's where you get your best ideas.

VK has made an awesome start, is an absolute winner, and will keep improving us.

Loved what he was saying yesterday abut getting them back to the Turf.

Course we as fans feel uneasy after such a result, but it's nothing the next week can't fix.

UTC

[Chester Perry]

Think it just gives him decent thinking time Chester. Anyone who stands out at the WC will be snapped up by bigger clubs, but I feel it's good he's out of the day to day environment / on a few long haul flights. That's where you get your best ideas.

VK has made an awesome start, is an absolute winner, and will keep improving us.

Loved what he was saying yesterday abut getting them back to the Turf.

Course we as fans feel uneasy after such a result, but it's nothing the next week can't fix.

UTC

there are no significant concerns if he is in a studio in Manchester - and no doubt the club have given their permission, I have just not seen the role mentioned on this board, so thought I would without starting another thread

[Top Claret]

Although we got battered yesterday Vinny should stick to his guns and learn from it

[Rileybobs]

Stop being a big baby about other people having different opinions. I’ve read a lot of the threads since yesterdays game and the criticism in the main seems entirely proportional. Maybe some people have overreacted slightly, but didn’t some people also overreact when we beat Swansea 4-0?

Yesterday was the first half of football this season where I would say we were completely outplayed. We conceded 4 goals in the second half. Of course people are going to be critical and why shouldn’t they? The criticism seems unrelated to our season as a whole which I’m sure almost everybody would agree has been exciting and successful.

[Jellybean]

So disappointed with our support yesterday as well, first half brilliant but when our young team needed us most, we were so quiet and many seemed more interested in the Sheffield fans

[Jamesy]

So disappointed with our support yesterday as well, first half brilliant but when our young team needed us most, we were so quiet and many seemed more interested in the Sheffield fans

Those were our youngish fans who shall we say had had a “sniff” or two prior to and during the match.
I don’t know how they afford it in these recession hit times.

[Jellybean]

We had a couple near to us, frightening how dead in the eyes they were and sad they feel they need to do this to have a good time

[Jamesy]

We had a couple near to us, frightening how dead in the eyes they were and sad they feel they need to do this to have a good time

It is very sad. I know I’m an old git but to be coked up by midday is something I cannot get my head around.

[Casper]

YES-the first half, if you are a neutral is as good a 45 minutes you will see in the Championship, and worth it just to watch Benson again. I find you see things the second time you missed . You really see the players who are hiding and dont commit to a challenge, but I am not going to share that in case of being perceived negative

Are you referring to Cullen ?

[tiger76]

Stop being a big baby about other people having different opinions. I’ve read a lot of the threads since yesterdays game and the criticism in the main seems entirely proportional. Maybe some people have overreacted slightly, but didn’t some people also overreact when we beat Swansea 4-0?

Yesterday was the first half of football this season where I would say we were completely outplayed. We conceded 4 goals in the second half. Of course people are going to be critical and why shouldn’t they? The criticism seems unrelated to our season as a whole which I’m sure almost everybody would agree has been exciting and successful.

That is why it's best not to pay much heed to any single result, be that a 4-0 win against Swansea, when many insisted we would walk the league, or the 5-2 reverse at Sheff Utd, there is a balanced view to be aired, which is we are doing well in the main, but that shouldn't detract from the obvious concerns posters naturally have regarding our ability to compete physically at this level, it's great playing stylish football, and I'm sure we all welcome the excitement that brings, as does seeing young players emerging, but equally sometimes you just need to roll up your sleeves and battle to gain a result.

No complaints with the score yesterday, yes we could argue that a couple of their goals might on another day have been ruled out, but they could also have bagged another couple during that dire 2nd half, as fans we just need to hope it can be explained away by us missing some players, and the hectic schedule, however our failure to deal with the high ball has been a constant issue all season long, and yesterday it was finally brought home to those who may still be in denial about this problem, and it is one that we'll need to resolve, as for all our great football if we can't start keeping clean sheets we will find it increasingly tough to win games, even though we sit top we only boast 10 wins from our 20 games, and sloppy defending has cost us several points that we should have gained.

[Leisure]

Those were our youngish fans who shall we say had had a “sniff” or two prior to and during the match.
I don’t know how they afford it in these recession hit times.

Interested to know how you can differentiate between drugs and booze?

[basil6345789]

Interested to know how you can differentiate between drugs and booze?

Easy

[Leisure]

Easy

That's not much help!

[basil6345789]

That's not much help!

If you don't know then you're beyond help

[Leisure]

If you don't know then you're beyond help

That's not much help either! Seems like you really don't know but like to pretend that you do!

[Ric_C]

on this board on the whole. We lost a match, so what. Move on and bloody enjoy it. You bunch of big babies. Dear god

Hear hear. Due to us signing a lot of technical players, the trade off was always going to be physicality.

To get both, see Premier league players on 50-100k per week

It's just as important to stick with the team through bad periods as well as good.

Mind you I wouldn't pay too much attention to the louder voices on this board as their opinions change like the wind most of the time.

[Jamesy]

That's not much help either! Seems like you really don't know but like to pretend that you do!

Hey Pete, I’m in my 60’s and I can definitely differentiate between drugs and booze. Sometimes though it’s Coke and booze but you can tell when someone’s been on it.

[CoolClaret]

Hear hear. Due to us signing a lot of technical players, the trade off was always going to be physicality.

To get both, see Premier league players on 50-100k per week

It's just as important to stick with the team through bad periods as well as good.

Mind you I wouldn't pay too much attention to the louder voices on this board as their opinions change like the wind most of the time.

Not that I don’t agree with this - but I think you’d be surprised with some of the contracts our top earners were on over the past few seasons!

[Leisure]

Hey Pete, I’m in my 60’s and I can definitely differentiate between drugs and booze. Sometimes though it’s Coke and booze but you can tell when someone’s been on it.

Cheers but I was asking a serious question as I'm not sure just what the differences are (I must have led a sheltered life).

[Jamesy]

Cheers but I was asking a serious question as I'm not sure just what the differences are (I must have led a sheltered life).

You can tell by their eyes Pete and certain behavioural patterns. Don’t worry though, you probably don’t get the “sniff” brigade travelling on the Accy clarets coaches!

[Jellybean]

They look like zombies, their eyes are dead. The ones next to us were out of it, aggressively joining in all the songs giving 200% but arms flailing everywhere, completely oblivious to people stood near them. No staggering though like if they were drunk. One came back from the loos sniffing and messing with his nose. As someone else has said how do they afford it!

[houseboy]

Got a basic principle for on here which works well for me. After a result like Saturday I just stay away from match threads cos I know what to expect. Not reading all the depressing rants brings me great peace of mind. We had a shocking 45 minutes in an otherwise pretty brilliant season so far. I’m chilled.

[LaLigaClaret]

Yes we lost but......

We did have chances to score more goals ourselves. We were missing Brownhill and Jay Rod. Two of their goals were given through joke officials not clearly seeing it was a goal kick and not a corner and the other goal had two, count them not one but two players offside. One of the other goals they scored was also debatable as the scorer had come back from an offside position.

Yes, the defending was poor, and I am not convinced that we should play Maatsen and Vitinho at full backs in the same game together. Muric I am afraid is not the keeper we need, he makes some really good saves, and his distribution is amongst the best in the Division however his general handling and positioning for crosses and corners is pretty woeful. On Saturday despite having a physical build, he is as nervous as jelly when anyone comes near him, and I am afraid the rest of the Division will have taken notice. This could cost us dearly. I'm still confident we will get promotion. Saturday will have been a shock to the players, but I am sure it will bring about a realistic and better approach from the players.

[boatshed bill]

Yes we lost but......

We did have chances to score more goals ourselves. We were missing Brownhill and Jay Rod. Two of their goals were given through joke officials not clearly seeing it was a goal kick and not a corner and the other goal had two, count them not one but two players offside. One of the other goals they scored was also debatable as the scorer had come back from an offside position.

Yes, the defending was poor, and I am not convinced that we should play Maatsen and Vitinho at full backs in the same game together. Muric I am afraid is not the keeper we need, he makes some really good saves, and his distribution is amongst the best in the Division however his general handling and positioning for crosses and corners is pretty woeful. On Saturday despite having a physical build, he is as nervous as jelly when anyone comes near him, and I am afraid the rest of the Division will have taken notice. This could cost us dearly. I'm still confident we will get promotion. Saturday will have been a shock to the players, but I am sure it will bring about a realistic and better approach from the players.

I doubt he's ever seen long throws like those from Robinson.
I wonder how other GKs would have coped.
In his defence I'd have to say that he was being impeded every time, it needed a defender to intervene.