ARTICLE: Clubs should hang their heads in shame over derby tickets

[Fretters]

bfcfan1882. Thank you very much for the link. It was interesting reading all the details within the account.

Agreed, up until yesterday I hadn't seen the detail of how I've accumulated my 6500 points since 2005.

I definitely have an unfair advantage over those who are, say, 20 years younger than me who attend every game. I got over the 6000 threshold purely by being older than them. I never go to away games these days due to having two young (expensive!) kids so it wouldn't have been fair for me to get a derby ticket over somebody who has been to every away game this season, yet has below the 6000. I do think a rolling time period system would be much, much fairer.

[Darnhill Claret]

I'm not that keen on going!

[Darnhill Claret]

Couldn't find the smiley.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Has anyone else bought a season ticket and then realised their points aren't on the same "new" account? Is it easy to merge accounts?

Needless to say i'm not bugging the ticket office about this just now but.....

[Claret Till I Die]

Has anyone else bought a season ticket and then realised their points aren't on the same "new" account? Is it easy to merge accounts?

Needless to say i'm not bugging the ticket office about this just now but.....

There was someone in the ticket office with the same problem this morning. They were given an email address for "somebody who deals with that".

I assume if you send them an email they'll redirect you to the correct office

[ŽižkovClaret]

Cheers CTID. be a laugh if they asked me to nip down

[AGENT_CLARET]

All this moaning and yet Rotherham tickets are still available! Thousands of "Super fans" yet we've not sold out Rotherham away yet and down to 2000 points......

There'll be a good few like me that can't do midweek games if over an hr away because of work

[jrgbfc]

Has anyone else bought a season ticket and then realised their points aren't on the same "new" account? Is it easy to merge accounts?

Needless to say i'm not bugging the ticket office about this just now but.....

Similar thing happened to me. Thought it would be a simple fix in the ticket office but they told me I had to email someone, so I just couldn't be bothered and left it.
Mind you this was towards the end of the Dyche era when getting away tickets was no bother!

[Jimmymaccer]

I suspect that in line with what many clubs appear to do, they'd expect the scale to be slid to reflect the clubs defined measure of loyalty. Don't most clubs slide the scale to reflect the likely barrier where the most loyal customers get tickets (Eg, if offered 2,000 tickets, and normally 80% of people in the loyalty system take them up, then run a process for the top 2,500 customers in your database). I totally get all of the arguments about this becoming a self fulfilling cycle, and the unfairness / inefficiency of attracting new fans in this, but that is the measure the club has set, and indicated that they may use where there are ticketing opportunities where friction is caused.

I think there's 3 learnings from this.

1) And by far... Blackburn are softer, bigger shysters that we ever thought, and appear a pretty weak set of leaders - from the board, through the manager, to the fans who created a whole myriad of reasons why Burnley fans shouldn't go.

2) The loyalty system needs to be reviewed, and clarity on how it will be used communicated to fans (to point out the absurdity of it, I haven't had a season ticket for 10 years, but still have way over the requisite points for this - if I decided to renew at some point in the future, I'd go back into that top tier - I am not a loyal fan, I don't go to any where near enough games to wear that badge)

3) When you have a system in place to reward the fans you've identified as your top tier fans, then don't throw that system in the bin at the exact time it's supposed to be used to differentiate. It will cause dissatisfaction amongst your most loyal customers - edit - as defined by your metrics.

I always thought that if you didn’t renew your season ticket you lost the points? Years ago I had a friend who didn’t renew for personal reasons and was pretty sure that’s what happened?

[ChorltonCharlie]

The bit about ‘deserving’ keeps coming up. I’d flip it the other way. I’m someone who ever since the system was created has always had the number of points for the initial sales phase, but I still think the system is bobbins. As someone who doesn’t do the majority of away games these days, I do think those who go home and away NOW ‘deserve’ priority over me. It’s a football club at the end of the day and we’re all supporters. I want to see us sell out away grounds whether I’m there or not. We want people with the commitment to travel all around the country even with some of the awful TV times these days. Anyone who has done that kind of thing knows it’s a way of life. There’s a togetherness, whether that’s with your mates or on the terraces with strangers on a cold Tuesday night at Millwall. Telling those kinds of people their support hasn’t been good enough will never sit right with me. I couldn't care less about age or any social judgements that I've seen from some. They're our fans and they've represented us all season and that should be recognised.

At least having a system that recognises that kind of support means each and every season we all know the deal and all know what we have to do. Having a season ticket must be a pre-requisite. Go away and you know your support will be rewarded when the time is right. Go to some and you know it’s touch and go. Hardly go to any, and you can’t really complain when you can’t get a ticket for the biggest games. It’s a simple system that works.

[Targetman]

All this moaning and yet Rotherham tickets are still available! Thousands of "Super fans" yet we've not sold out Rotherham away yet and down to 2000 points......

I would wager that many of those fans who are going to Rotherham, and indeed also going to Reading and Bristol City haven't been able to get a ticket for Ewood.

But of course a ballot seems to be the fairest way!

[Elizabeth]

Just hope the 6000 pointers create a better atmosphere than they did at Blackpool,Sounded shocking on the box.

This is not about tickets being given to the 6000 pointers , there will be plenty well over 6000 points who have been able to get tickets

[midlander63]

Down_Rover got it right when he pointed out the 400 replies without agreement - incredibly divisive subject!

For what it's worth my opinion is:

1) First and foremost Blackburn Rovers are predominantly to blame here - petty, spiteful and all because they don't want too many Burnley fans turning up and celebrating - bunch of babies!
2) Burnley should have introduced an extra level of 8000 points - not beyond the wit of man as I recall them doing it for Aberdeen?

On a lighter note I have a solution - Rovers just give the whole ground over to Burnley fans - just think of the advantages

1) All Burnley fans can now get a ticket
2) Increased revenue for Rovers (can't win them all)
3) Rovers fans spared the embarrassment of watching them actually play this game
4) Rovers fans can watch it on TV from the comfort of The Golden Cup

Everyone wins!

[Winstonswhite]

There'll be a good few like me that can't do midweek games if over an hr away because of work

Sounds to me like you look for any excuse not to go. The other week you were boycotting a home game because you weren’t told your seat wasn’t available for a cup game.

[Cabbage]

That's OK but could potentially mean that a current season ticket holder may not have the chance to buy a ticket for an away they wish to go to, which can't be right, imo all current season ticket holders should have the chance to do that. So for instance I don't have the required loyalty points so haven't had the chance to apply, but I am a current season ticket holder, surely this should be a pre requisite before we even get to loyalty points, I stand to be corrected but is it not possible that as a result of relegation coupled with the sacking of Sean dyche some people relinquished their season ticket so hence are not current, but by virtue of having over 6000 points from previous seasons are eligible to enter the ballot and potentially get a ticket, or taking the ballot away are eligible to purchase a ticket for any given away game, that surely can't be right, the eligibility to purchase should always be to current season ticket holders.

As well as awarding points for away games only, why not have a 5 year life for loyalty points. I think it’s already been mentioned. Regular, recent supporters who travel away will continue to be rewarded and those hanging their hats on their loyalty 10 years ago but now passing tickets on to their grandkids at others expense would drop off the list. As regards new fans not getting a look in, I think it’s only a handful of games this season that there’s been an issue getting tickets. (Huddersfield, Luton & Blackburn) they could quickly accrue points if they regularly attended away games.

[4midable]

Just re-read this thread again and its up there with one of the best seen on this board

Aww no ticket

[agreenwood]

If I’ve understood the current system correctly, you get 350 points per season ticket and 10 points for every away game. On that basis if you landed on the planet 10 years ago and a) had a season ticket every year since and b) somehow bought a ticket for every away game in the last 10 years, you’d have less than 6000 points today?

That means you wouldn’t have been eligible to apply for the Rovers ballot despite not missing a game for ten years. You may also have only have half the points as a fan who was a regular until last summer and then hasn’t stepped foot on any games this season. You possibly wouldn’t even have as many points as a fan who hasn’t stepped foot on a game for several seasons.

System seems broken to me. I agree with those who have suggested either something based on season tickets or a rolling system that rewards recent-ish loyalty.

[Sproggy]

System seems broken to me. I agree with those who have suggested either something based on season tickets or a rolling system that rewards recent-ish loyalty.

It is based on season tickets. You have to have the points and a ST to qualify.

[Elizabeth]

Tony , you said you didn’t expect your article to get universal approvement. Having read the strength of opinion , would you change anything in it ?

What would have been the title of the second piece you wrote that you didn’t publish?

[agreenwood]

It is based on season tickets. You have to have the points and a ST to qualify.

Is that true? I’d never thought about how points are accrued until this week, but based what I’ve read on this thread, could there not be fans with 10k+ points who didn’t buy a season ticket this year or even last? I’m assuming if we’ve now got fans on 13k points, they passed the 10k mark years ago.

[welsbyswife]

Tony , you said you didn’t expect your article to get universal approvement. Having read the strength of opinion , would you change anything in it ?

What would have been the title of the second piece you wrote that you didn’t publish?

Acknowledging you might have got something wrong or gone about things differently isn't quite the done thing on UTC is it! That's not aimed at Claret Tony specifically but maybe it would be a better board if people did acknowledge they might not be right all the time!!

[Elizabeth]

Acknowledging you might have got something wrong or gone about things differently isn't quite the done thing on UTC is it! That's not aimed at Claret Tony specifically but maybe it would be a better board if people did acknowledge they might not be right all the time!!

He’s caused a big stir and I think he has the right of reply

[welsbyswife]

You don't seriously expect a change of tack though do you Elizabeth!!

[Cornwallclaret]

Blackburn have effectively killed the derby for whatever reasons,pettiness,grudge or just plain jealousy,our season has been phenomenal,as a fan living in Devon it’s been impossible for me to get to home games let alone away games due to no tickets being available when I know I could go,it’s the price of success I’m afraid,fortunately we’ve been on tv a lot this season . I targeted the cup game at Bournemouth because I knew I’d get tickets for that,it’s been my only live game the season. There’s no doubt we could have sold 10000 plus for the rovers game but only getting 2000 was always going to be a challenge for Burnley to do it fairly

[Elizabeth]

I’m not sure what I expect other than a reply from Tony. I empathise with his low periods and as he wrote such a strong article criticising the club I assume he is in a much better place now to react

Response to welsby’s wife

[Elizabeth]

This might sound like an attack on Tony to some people but let me assure you I have always found him a man of integrity and look forward to what he has to say having read what he always knew was going to be controversial

[AGENT_CLARET]

Sounds to me like you look for any excuse not to go. The other week you were boycotting a home game because you weren’t told your seat wasn’t available for a cup game.

If you say so, but for what it's got to do with you I can't take time off when I want I'm contracted with Lcc to term time only

[Jakubclaret]

Blackburn have effectively killed the derby for whatever reasons,pettiness,grudge or just plain jealousy,our season has been phenomenal,as a fan living in Devon it’s been impossible for me to get to home games let alone away games due to no tickets being available when I know I could go,it’s the price of success I’m afraid,fortunately we’ve been on tv a lot this season . I targeted the cup game at Bournemouth because I knew I’d get tickets for that,it’s been my only live game the season. There’s no doubt we could have sold 10000 plus for the rovers game but only getting 2000 was always going to be a challenge for Burnley to do it fairly

Blackburn have effectively killed nothing if you think the 2000 that are going are all going to have a miserable time, there's a possibility that Blackburn have actually done people a favour if they end up winning beating Blackburn in their own backyard isn't guaranteed although present conditions do indicate there's better chance than ever of that happening.

[AGENT_CLARET]

He’s caused a big stir and I think he has the right of reply

Most people don't get a right to reply, if you do and it's not what people want to see it's removed and you're banned for 48 hrs

[Elizabeth]

Most people don't get a right to reply, if you do and it's not what people want to see it's removed and you're banned for 48 hrs

I do think the moderation of this board is of a questionable standard but that doesn’t mean I think Tony will not reply. Especially as so many people think he wrote the article because of sour grapes

[Bangers&Mash]

It turns out the chant is correct - Burnley is full of fannies!

Well done on making us a laughing stock. At least being Cry Baby FC gives us a week off being Parachute Payment FC

A lot of the usual suspects sounding like absolute tools on this thread, and disappointingly a few I respected a little have shown themselves up too

[Leisure]

If I’ve understood the current system correctly, you get 350 points per season ticket and 10 points for every away game. On that basis if you landed on the planet 10 years ago and a) had a season ticket every year since and b) somehow bought a ticket for every away game in the last 10 years, you’d have less than 6000 points today?

That means you wouldn’t have been eligible to apply for the Rovers ballot despite not missing a game for ten years. You may also have only have half the points as a fan who was a regular until last summer and then hasn’t stepped foot on any games this season. You possibly wouldn’t even have as many points as a fan who hasn’t stepped foot on a game for several seasons.

System seems broken to me. I agree with those who have suggested either something based on season tickets or a rolling system that rewards recent-ish loyalty.

How is the system broken? It works perfectly well for 90% or so of games. The only time that it's questioned is for games where demand massively outweighs supply but there is no alternative system that can address that issue. If you read through the whole of this thread there are numerous suggestions of how it should be changed but whilst some changes may improve things for some people they will probably be to the detriment of others. If you look at the systems used by other clubs, there are numerous different systems used. Indicating that there is no one perfect system.

[TheFamilyCat]

It turns out the chant is correct - Burnley is full of fannies!

Well done on making us a laughing stock. At least being Cry Baby FC gives us a week off being Parachute Payment FC

A lot of the usual suspects sounding like absolute tools on this thread, and disappointingly a few I respected a little have shown themselves up too

Laughing stock? Really?

[MDWat]

How is the system broken? It works perfectly well for 90% or so of games. The only time that it's questioned is for games where demand massively outweighs supply but there is no alternative system that can address that issue. If you read through the whole of this thread there are numerous suggestions of how it should be changed but whilst some changes may improve things for some people they will probably be to the detriment of others. If you look at the systems used by other clubs, there are numerous different systems used. Indicating that there is no one perfect system.

It’s not broken for you, but it’s broken for many. And that’s okay. It’s not broken for me personally because I have enough points for the vast majority of games.

The mistake the club has made here I think is that they stated they would change the point threshold for games where there would be more demand. But I probably think they’ve made a mistake because I’m being selfish in wanting a ticket where I haven’t got one.

At the end of the day it’s just life. Some you win, some you don’t.

The club could implement their actual system and then it wouldn’t be broken. But they don’t. So it is.

[Leisure]

It’s not broken for you, but it’s broken for many. And that’s okay. It’s not broken for me personally because I have enough points for the vast majority of games.

The mistake the club has made here I think is that they stated they would change the point threshold for games where there would be more demand. But I probably think they’ve made a mistake because I’m being selfish in wanting a ticket where I haven’t got one.

At the end of the day it’s just life. Some you win, some you don’t.

The club could implement their actual system and then it wouldn’t be broken. But they don’t. So it is.

So the system isn't broken if they'd just implemented it correctly.

[Elizabeth]

You might not have got one if they raised the points number as well. Like you say , it’s just tough

Reply to MDWatt

[MDWat]

You might not have got one if they raised the points number as well. Like you say , it’s just tough

Absolutely. It’s a game of football. I’d prefer to be there but it’s not the end of the world. Life goes on. I don’t feel I’m any more or less deserving of attending than anyone else.

[MDWat]

So the system isn't broken if they'd just implemented it correctly.

A system that allows me to have accrued points over 18 years or whatever it is since it’s being implemented but a 16 year old only over 16 years maximum (and that assumes attendances from the age of 0) is not really fair.

[Leisure]

A system that allows me to have accrued points over 18 years or whatever it is since it’s being implemented but a 16 year old only over 16 years maximum (and that assumes attendances from the age of 0) is not really fair.

Why is that not fair?

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Yes but if there are 2,000 tickets available they give them (1 each )to the 2,000 fans with the highest points .
Not Rocket Science

[MDWat]

Why is that not fair?

Because I have more chance of tickets than a 16 year old purely because of my age. They are no more or less loyal, not more or less passionate about the football club than I am.

[Leisure]

Because I have more chance of tickets than a 16 year old purely because of my age. They are no more or less loyal, not more or less passionate about the football club than I am.

Agree but life isn't perfect. An older, wealthier fan has more chance of attending all games than a poor 16 year old but that's life.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Please please please close this topic now ZZZZzzzzz

[agreenwood]

How is the system broken? It works perfectly well for 90% or so of games. The only time that it's questioned is for games where demand massively outweighs supply but there is no alternative system that can address that issue. If you read through the whole of this thread there are numerous suggestions of how it should be changed but whilst some changes may improve things for some people they will probably be to the detriment of others. If you look at the systems used by other clubs, there are numerous different systems used. Indicating that there is no one perfect system.

Did you read the example I gave?

I’m guessing you have a very large number of points that puts you in the top tier under this system. If you stopped going on for the next few years, you feasibly might remain in that top tier based on the slow rate at which points are accrued.

My point is it’s such a slow moving system, that it takes barely any account of recent loyalty, particularly if we follow Tony’s argument that he and others with 10k+ points should have been given first refusal on the Rovers tickets. That would pretty much rule out most under 30s, unless their parents had been taking them on throughout their childhood.

If you changed it to something that looked back over 5 or so years, you could still be rewarded with first dibs if you were an Uber fan, but the younger fans would have a decent chance too. That seems fairer to me.

There’s no agenda from me here. I have a season ticket, but only go to a handful of away games most years. I accept I’ll never be able to get an away ticket when the allocation is limited (unless our fortunes take a nosedive).

[Bigbopper]

Yes but if there are 2,000 tickets available they give them (1 each )to the 2,000 fans with the highest points .
Not Rocket Science

In that case the person with the lower amount of points can never catch up. The whole thing of "I deserve to go because I have not missed a game in 10 years " is nonsense. All ST holders should have the same chance of a ticket for HIGH demand games. I am not a ST holder just to be clear.

[MDWat]

I’d rather support a system that works over a rolling period.

Those with the most points would still have top dibs but if those people stop going as much over, say, a 5 year period, you’d allow those with less (likely younger fans) points chance to get to big games, which is more likely to breed the next generation of fan.

I don’t support a system that just purely works for me.

[NewClaret]

The bit about ‘deserving’ keeps coming up. I’d flip it the other way. I’m someone who ever since the system was created has always had the number of points for the initial sales phase, but I still think the system is bobbins. As someone who doesn’t do the majority of away games these days, I do think those who go home and away NOW ‘deserve’ priority over me. It’s a football club at the end of the day and we’re all supporters. I want to see us sell out away grounds whether I’m there or not. We want people with the commitment to travel all around the country even with some of the awful TV times these days. Anyone who has done that kind of thing knows it’s a way of life. There’s a togetherness, whether that’s with your mates or on the terraces with strangers on a cold Tuesday night at Millwall. Telling those kinds of people their support hasn’t been good enough will never sit right with me. I couldn't care less about age or any social judgements that I've seen from some. They're our fans and they've represented us all season and that should be recognised.

At least having a system that recognises that kind of support means each and every season we all know the deal and all know what we have to do. Having a season ticket must be a pre-requisite. Go away and you know your support will be rewarded when the time is right. Go to some and you know it’s touch and go. Hardly go to any, and you can’t really complain when you can’t get a ticket for the biggest games. It’s a simple system that works.

Good post this, and I see your point. Agree with your way of life point. I probably go to 1/3rd to half away and with home games mixed in that feels a big commitment. To go to every game is absolutely next level.

Basing away tickets on historical away attendance, maybe over the last two years combined, vs historical home support is probably a fair way to do it. With additional credit applied to the really unsociable fixtures.

Ballot every game, give them to the the highest away points that enter the ballot (in order) until sold out, then any left over on sale to ST holders, then general sale.

[MDWat]

Did you read the example I gave?

I’m guessing you have a very large number of points that puts you in the top tier under this system. If you stopped going on for the next few years, you feasibly might remain in that top tier based on the slow rate at which points are accrued.

My point is it’s such a slow moving system, that it takes barely any account of recent loyalty, particularly if we follow Tony’s argument that he and others with 10k+ points should have been given first refusal on the Rovers tickets. That would pretty much rule out most under 30s, unless their parents had been taking them on throughout their childhood.

If you changed it to something that looked back over 5 or so years, you could still be rewarded with first dibs if you were an Uber fan, but the younger fans would have a decent chance too. That seems fairer to be.

There’s no agenda from me here. I have a season ticket, but only go to a handful of away games most years. I accept I’ll never be able to get an away ticket when the allocation is limited (unless our fortunes take a nosedive).

Articulated better than me

[levraiclaret]

It is Rovers fault

Thats it

The club have just tried to mitigate it in what they think is the fairest way possible

And failed. They know how many supporters are in each points band and they know how many away games each supporter has attended each season. So withsome thought and effurt they could have devised a fairer system.
To me this shows that they don't understsnt the commitment of the travelling supporters.

[Rick_Muller]

Agree but life isn't perfect. An older, wealthier fan has more chance of attending all games than a poor 16 year old but that's life.

If that was a reference to my post in this thread where I compare an old chap with a 17 year old I think that’s being a little disrespectful tbh.

Do I need to point out the massive flaw in the “loyalty” system we currently have? It’s to do with individuals having access to numerous claret numbers for their cliques and over the years they buy multiple tickets for large groups and amassed the points when not necessarily attending. Ring any bells Pete?