Weghorst

[Cooclaret]

I think the way it goes is that if someone is challenging another opinion the onus is on them to support that challenge with facts. The alternative is to simply respect other opinions .
Additionally anyone who ever reads my posts will know exactly what I think of an over reliance on stats . Note I relate to using stats too much as I do myself look at stats eg goals scored

Which I have earlier in the thread;

He has a better goal ratio in Europe’s top leagues than any of our current strikers

He has more international caps than any of current strikers

He has more international goals than any of our current strikers

He has played for top clubs in multiple countries

He is picked consistently for international games and has scored in a World Cup semi final

I could go in with stats and more, but you’ve been made to look foolish enough.

[Jakubclaret]

Which I have earlier in the thread;

He has a better goal ratio in Europe’s top leagues than any of our current strikers

He has more international caps than any of current strikers

He has more international goals than any of our current strikers

He has played for top clubs in multiple countries

He is picked consistently for international games and has scored in a World Cup semi final

I could go in with stats and more, but you’ve been made to look foolish enough.

It's more yesterday than tomorrow, I've defended him before on here but it's taken me some time I've slowly come to the conclusion especially after the United performances we've been sold a pup.

[claret2018]

Which I have earlier in the thread;

He has a better goal ratio in Europe’s top leagues than any of our current strikers

He has more international caps than any of current strikers

He has more international goals than any of our current strikers

He has played for top clubs in multiple countries

He is picked consistently for international games and has scored in a World Cup semi final

I could go in with stats and more, but you’ve been made to look foolish enough.

He’s a striker with 2 goals in 37 premier league games. That’s the only stat you need to look at.

[Cooclaret]

It's more yesterday than tomorrow, I've defended him before on here but it's taken me some time I've slowly come to the conclusion especially after the United performances we've been sold a pup.

Not the discussion, is he that best striker we have on the books, or are others better.

[Cooclaret]

He’s a striker with 2 goals in 37 premier league games. That’s the only stat you need to look at.

If he stays, he’s a 15 plus striker.

[Boss Hogg]

If he stays, he’s a 15 plus striker.

What’s this based on ? Certainly not his PL record and performances to date.

[Rileybobs]

He’s a striker with 2 goals in 37 premier league games. That’s the only stat you need to look at.

Jay Rodriguez has 3 goals in his last 60 PL appearances. Lyle Foster has 0 PL goals, so if that’s the only stat you need to look at then the counter argument isn’t looking great.

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

If he stays, he’s a 15 plus striker.

Yeah, I agree. In five seasons in the prem.

[Jakubclaret]

Not the discussion, is he that best striker we have on the books, or are others better.

That's just a petty point scoring debate which doesn't make any sense, of course he's better can you imagine man united being interested in any of our other players or even remotely, the discussion is what to do with him because it's looking very likely he doesn't have a future here, he's a pedigree player declining like a lead balloon.

[Cooclaret]

That's just a petty point scoring debate which doesn't make any sense, of course he's better can you imagine man united being interested in any of our other players or even remotely, the discussion is what to do with him because it's looking very likely he doesn't have a future here, he's a pedigree player declining like a lead balloon.

Further up the thread; people were claiming that WW isn’t the best striker we have at the club. I was disagreeing.

[Cooclaret]

Yeah, I agree. In five seasons in the prem.

Bet? 50p says he gets them in 2!

[dsr]

Weghorst is a complete donkey look what a disastrous effect he had on Man United when they were forced to play him in their hour of need:-

Had to start 17 games because of Martials injury and how did this effect the team.

Well surprisingly they won 13 drew 3 and only lost 2 ... away to Arsenal and Liverpool

There best run of form since the Fergie years ... maybe more teams need to play a donkey or heaven's forbid maybe he isn't as [expletive deleted] as a lot of the pundits on here reckon.

I think you need to check the stats again, because for one thing he started in the defeat at Newcastle, and for another 13+3+2 doesn't add up to 17. But I get the point - Man U were a good side with Weghorst in it.

In the 16 league games before he arrived Man U won 12, drew 2, lost2, so you don't need to go back as far as Ferguson to find a comparable run. So there's the counterpoint - they were a good side without him as well.

[123EasyasBFC]

If kompany wants him and weghorst mentality is right then he will be a good player for us, roberts will of already forget about their little disagreement if it wasn’t already squashed after the game

[Elizabeth]

Which I have earlier in the thread;

He has a better goal ratio in Europe’s top leagues than any of our current strikers

He has more international caps than any of current strikers

He has more international goals than any of our current strikers

He has played for top clubs in multiple countries

He is picked consistently for international games and has scored in a World Cup semi final

I could go in with stats and more, but you’ve been made to look foolish enough.

Yet he's been bobbins in the PL for all these stats you've provided. It's not as if I'm judging him on a couple of PL games.
You know that , I know that, everyone knows that.

[Cooclaret]

Yet he's been bobbins in the PL for all these stats you've provided. It's not as if I'm judging him on a couple of PL games.
You know that , I know that, everyone knows that.

Your argument, if I’m right, was that he’s not the best striker at the club. Not if he’s bobbins in the Premier League or not.

He is the best striker at the club currently. That’s a fact, it’s backed up by facts, and it remains a fact until someone overtakes him from the current or future squad.

You can’t change the discussion to suit your preferred outcome. Sounds suspiciously Tory of you.

[Elizabeth]

Your argument, if I’m right, was that he’s not the best striker at the club. Not if he’s bobbins in the Premier League or not.

He is the best striker at the club currently. That’s a fact, it’s backed up by facts, and it remains a fact until someone overtakes him from the current or future squad.

You can’t change the discussion to suit your preferred outcome. Sounds suspiciously Tory of you.

Tony and the mods have asked that we keep politics out of these threads.

The fact that he is useless in the PL is very relevant to our next season.

I m sure we currently have strikers at the club who will perform better next season than Weghorst.has so far done in 2 seasons.

All I've seen from you is a CV that looks impressive. Not the first time someone has been employed with a good CV only to disappoint.

Rather than it looking like a disagreement based on your political and personal beliefs shall we let it go now ?

[Rick_Muller]

Personally I don’t care who thinks what about WW. For me, if he stays he gets my support. If he goes, good luck to him.

If VK wants him, I’ll trust that.

What anyone of you who are bickering like children in the playground think is quite frankly irrelevant.

Good day

[Elizabeth]

Personally I don’t care who thinks what about WW. For me, if he stays he gets my support. If he goes, good luck to him.

If VK wants him, I’ll trust that.

What anyone of you who are bickering like children in the playground think is quite frankly irrelevant.

Good day

Why didn't we just listen to you in the first place. Feel free to stifle any other threads you so wish

[4midable]

Has the plant pot been seen at gawthorpe yet

[Cooclaret]

Tony and the mods have asked that we keep politics out of these threads.

The fact that he is useless in the PL is very relevant to our next season.

I m sure we currently have strikers at the club who will perform better next season than Weghorst.has so far done in 2 seasons.

All I've seen from you is a CV that looks impressive. Not the first time someone has been employed with a good CV only to disappoint.

Rather than it looking like a disagreement based on your political and personal beliefs shall we let it go now ?

That isn’t politics. That’s a statement.

You’ve changed your argument time and time again, during which you have said some really confusing things.

I’m still waiting on you providing evidence you’re bullied in this platform as you alleged the other day. In particular you said I did.

Happy to leave it, buttery sticking to your argument and beliefs before you question anyone’s else’s.

[Robbie_painter]

That isn’t politics. That’s a statement.

You’ve changed your argument time and time again, during which you have said some really confusing things.

I’m still waiting on you providing evidence you’re bullied in this platform as you alleged the other day. In particular you said I did.

Happy to leave it, buttery sticking to your argument and beliefs before you question anyone’s else’s.

Think you should leave it as you’re coming across as a proper tw&t.

[Cooclaret]

Think you should leave it as you’re coming across as a proper tw&t.

Appreciate your view, but sometimes people need to be challenged when they throw about accusations from behind a keyboard without substance.

[andyh]

I can’t help but feel this could be a humble pie thread for the future. Until VK says he isn’t in our plans he is a Burnley player who is likely to start or be on the bench most matches. What he would be like in VKs system is anyone’s guess and no amount of trotting out goals in Prem stats make any sense.

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

Bet? 50p says he gets them in 2!

You’re on, although I’m not convinced that he will get the opportunity to in the prem, with us or anyone else.

You don’t sound too confident of your assertion of 15 goals a season though, you’ve effectively halved it for a 50p bet.

[Cooclaret]

You’re on, although I’m not convinced that he will get the opportunity to in the prem, with us or anyone else.

You don’t sound too confident of your assertion of 15 goals a season though, you’ve effectively halved it for a 50p bet.

Far point; 50p that he gets them this season.

50p is the maximum bet in our family for any bet. Round of golf; 50p. Who’ll lose their head first at Christmas; 50p and so on. Used to be a good return, but inflation has hit it hard.

[Big Vinny K]

What a very daft thread.
Some people convinced he is sh-ite. A ridiculous description IMHO given his career and what it takes to be a professional footballer (let alone one who has played for top clubs and for a major national side)

Some saying it’s a “fact” that he is the best striker at the club…..how can an opinion be a fact now ?

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

Far point; 50p that he gets them this season.

50p is the maximum bet in our family for any bet. Round of golf; 50p. Who’ll lose their head first at Christmas; 50p and so on. Used to be a good return, but inflation has hit it hard.

If VK decides to keep him and play him then he will get my full support and I hope that I will be handing over 50p by the end of the season, I can’t see it happening though. If he goes elsewhere in the prem I hope that you are giving me the 50p, not that I wish him any ill will, I don’t want him scoring for a rival!

[Cooclaret]

What a very daft thread.
Some people convinced he is sh-ite. A ridiculous description IMHO given his career and what it takes to be a professional footballer (let alone one who has played for top clubs and for a major national side)

Some saying it’s a “fact” that he is the best striker at the club…..how can an opinion be a fact now ?

It’s fact based on the metrics used to identify success of a player in a position.

[Big Vinny K]

It’s fact based on the metrics used to identify success of a player in a position.

It really isn’t a fact.
It’s your opinion and it might be the majority of peoples opinions too - as from the metrics like you say that would be the logical conclusion.
But nonetheless it’s not that hard to differentiate opinion from fact.

[clarets12]

It's opinion based.

[Quickenthetempo]

In the 16 league games before he arrived Man U won 12, drew 2, lost2, so you don't need to go back as far as Ferguson to find a comparable run. So there's the counterpoint - they were a good side without him as well.

Di he arrive on the 17th game of the season?

Only asking as it would be fairer to judge the record from the beginning of the season. With or without him?

[Cooclaret]

It really isn’t a fact.
It’s your opinion and it might be the majority of peoples opinions too - as from the metrics like you say that would be the logical conclusion.
But nonetheless it’s not that hard to differentiate opinion from fact.

He has more international caps and goals than any of the current forwards at the club. That’s fact, it’s supported by data.

How is that an opinion? I’m struggling to see your working out…

[StayingDown4Ever]

Jay Rodriguez has 3 goals in his last 60 PL appearances. Lyle Foster has 0 PL goals, so if that’s the only stat you need to look at then the counter argument isn’t looking great.

If Jay Rod and the pony Foster are our best two striking options by the time the season starts then we are in massive trouble.

[Big Vinny K]

He has more international caps and goals than any of the current forwards at the club. That’s fact, it’s supported by data.

How is that an opinion? I’m struggling to see your working out…

Are you being deliberately argumentative ?
You’re embarrassing yourself now tbh

What you have said above may well be a fact.

That’s not the same as whether he’s the best forward at the club. Conor Roberts has the most international caps of our defenders - is it a fact or an opinion that he is the best defender ?

It’s really not that difficult to understand the difference between 2 words.

[beddie]

If Jay Rod and the pony Foster are our best two striking options by the time the season starts then we are in massive trouble.

Yes if we serious about staying up we definitely need a quality striker bringing in, hopefully we’re working on that. In regards to Weghorst, if we’re lumbered with him I’d imagine the first thing VK will do is assess his attitude. I can’t imagine for one moment VK will allow anyone not fitting into the group for whatever reason.

[taio]

He has more international caps and goals than any of the current forwards at the club. That’s fact, it’s supported by data.

How is that an opinion? I’m struggling to see your working out…

This might hold up better if the players being compared were the same nationality and had played in the same domestic leagues.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Yes if we serious about staying up we definitely need a quality striker bringing in, hopefully we’re working on that. In regards to Weghorst, if we’re lumbered with him I’d imagine the first thing VK will do is assess his attitude. I can’t imagine for one moment VK will allow anyone not fitting into the group for whatever reason.

Don’t worry, I think we will get someone else in.

[alki claret]

They played approx 31 games before he made his debut won 21 lost 7 and drew 5.

The main point being that although he is a striker that doesn't score many goals, he actually appears to improve the performance of the team through his link up play.

In our case we would be looking at Tella, Benson, Zarouray and Browhill scoring more goals when he is playing than if Foster or Rodriguez was playing.

The other plus points are that he is very quick to integrate into a team and steers clear of injury.

[Cooclaret]

Are you being deliberately argumentative ?
You’re embarrassing yourself now tbh

What you have said above may well be a fact.

That’s not the same as whether he’s the best forward at the club. Conor Roberts has the most international caps of our defenders - is it a fact or an opinion that he is the best defender ?

It’s really not that difficult to understand the difference between 2 words.

You really are aggressive with your words. You didn’t need to be so. You highlight another issue with the board, but that’s a different discussion.

I was highlighting a metric that could be used as a measure as a base to draw a conclusion from. So yes, you could argue that Conor Roberts is the best defender at the club using that metric.

If data is so meaningless in your world and opinion rules, why are we seeing an increasing movement towards it in football?

[Cooclaret]

This might hold up better if the players being compared were the same nationality and had played in the same domestic leagues.

Agreed, a direct comparison would be ideal.

So compare JR and WW. Who has scored more, who has more assists?

[taio]

Agreed, a direct comparison would be ideal.

So compare JR and WW. Who has scored more, who has more assists?

It's not worth comparing stats from different leagues. It's ike comparing apples with oranges. We've seen numerous examples of players with oustanding stats in other leagues that don't repeat them in a tougher league.

[Elizabeth]

So the poster who slagged Roberts off endlessly is now using his metric system to argue he’s the best defender at the club.
Oh dear

[Big Vinny K]

You really are aggressive with your words. You didn’t need to be so. You highlight another issue with the board, but that’s a different discussion.

I was highlighting a metric that could be used as a measure as a base to draw a conclusion from. So yes, you could argue that Conor Roberts is the best defender at the club using that metric.

If data is so meaningless in your world and opinion rules, why are we seeing an increasing movement towards it in football?

Data isn’t meaningless - who said that ?
The data supports your opinion that he is the best forward at the club in case of Weghorst. I can see that.
In the case of Roberts it possibly doesn’t but it’s absolutely not a problem for someone to have that opinion.

But if people were saying it’s a fact that Roberts is the best defender then they would sound as daft as you do.

Oh and stop deflecting your constant need to bicker by pulling out this “aggressive” nonsense. You do this on a lot of threads when you dig yourself in a hole.

You are just plainly wrong this time - and that is not an opinion. It’s a fact.

[Cooclaret]

So the poster who slagged Roberts off endlessly is now using his metric system to argue he’s the best defender at the club.
Oh dear

I said you could use that metric to argue that point.

I haven’t slagged him off ‘endlessly’, I criticised him in certain games for slowing the game down when he moved into the midfield in possession. I feel he is someone we could upgrade in the future or now to make the team more effective.

Didn’t you recently allege that people on this board purposely log on to jump on your posts, add a negative spin/comment and alluded to that as bullying?

[clarets12]

Talk about him as a striker, but what about if he played in the centre of our attacking 3 behind the forward?

So basically behind the forward.

[Cooclaret]

Data isn’t meaningless - who said that ?
The data supports your opinion that he is the best forward at the club in case of Weghorst. I can see that.
In the case of Roberts it possibly doesn’t but it’s absolutely not a problem for someone to have that opinion.

But if people were saying it’s a fact that Roberts is the best defender then they would sound as daft as you do.

Oh and stop deflecting your constant need to bicker by pulling out this “aggressive” nonsense. You do this on a lot of threads when you dig yourself in a hole.

You are just plainly wrong this time - and that is not an opinion. It’s a fact.

You say things that aren’t needed.

‘You’re making a fool of yourself imo’

What’s the need for that sentence?

‘Your constant need to bicker…’

I’m not in a hole, you just agreed that the data supports my opinion. But to you,

‘You are just plainly wrong this time, and that’s not an opinion. It’s a fact.’

Seems you’re confused.

[Elizabeth]

I said you could use that metric to argue that point.

I haven’t slagged him off ‘endlessly’, I criticised him in certain games for slowing the game down when he moved into the midfield in possession. I feel he is someone we could upgrade in the future or now to make the team more effective.

Didn’t you recently allege that people on this board purposely log on to jump on your posts, add a negative spin/comment and alluded to that as bullying?

As I have been commenting on this thread since yesterday evening I’m hardly jumping in. It’s difficult to shut you up so go and look at the Foster thread in Feb and you’ll find your answer about your behaviour on this board.

In the past I’ve been guilty of being drawn into exchanging insults with other posters until I realised it does no good nor does it help what is a good forum overall.

[Big Vinny K]

You say things that aren’t needed.

‘You’re making a fool of yourself imo’

What’s the need for that sentence?

‘Your constant need to bicker…’

I’m not in a hole, you just agreed that the data supports my opinion. But to you,

‘You are just plainly wrong this time, and that’s not an opinion. It’s a fact.’

Seems you’re confused.

Why am I confused ?
I agree with your “opinion” on Weghorst that he is the best current striker at the club.

But that doesn’t mean it’s a fact

[Flying Without Ings]

As I have been commenting on this thread since yesterday evening I’m hardly jumping in. It’s difficult to shut you up so go and look at the Foster thread in Feb and you’ll find your answer about your behaviour on this board.

In the past I’ve been guilty of being drawn into exchanging insults with other posters until I realised it does no good nor does it help what is a good forum overall.

I don’t think antagonising posters does any good either.

[Cooclaret]

As I have been commenting on this thread since yesterday evening I’m hardly jumping in. It’s difficult to shut you up so go and look at the Foster thread in Feb and you’ll find your answer about your behaviour on this board.

In the past I’ve been guilty of being drawn into exchanging insults with other posters until I realised it does no good nor does it help what is a good forum overall.

I went to look and reflect. Disagreements don’t equate bullying. In fact, going back to point to one thread four months ago disproves that sufficiently.

Difficult to shut me up? Why would you want to do that? It’s rather oppressive.