Ground Capacity Increase.

[TsarBomba]

All well and good just saying chuck in rail seating in the CFS, but there’s safety to think of. Doubtful whether it would get signed off. Fans are already saying the concourse is a death trap, and with limited facilities to go with it.

[Spijed]

All well and good just saying chuck in rail seating in the CFS, but there’s safety to think of. Doubtful whether it would get signed off. Fans are already saying the concourse is a death trap, and with limited facilities to go with it.

Makes you wonder how QPR get a safety certificate for the cramped spaces in their away end.

[It Is What It Is]

8000 away tickets ?

Sorry guys...big fingers on my little keyboard meant 2k not 8k....my dyslexia dosent help neither!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Hope not, best suggestion I read was to redo the ground where it is now but move it further away from the road to allow the BL to be a proper 2 tier stand. I don't personally think the ground needs expanding, couple of bad seasons and 16th place finishes and we'll be back to 18000 gate

Moving the ground where it is?
We’d need to ground share for a season at least.
Probably need to buy some of the houses behind on Chichester close to allow for the need for extra space

[CoolClaret]

I have no idea how long the time span to tear down/put up a new stand would be, but if it was up to me (if possible) I’d probably pull the Bob lord & CFS down and do a single tiered stand all the way round with the corner filled in.

The idea of relocating away from our current site should never, ever be entertained even in light discussion.

We’d seriously lose so much of our identity & charm/soul

It would be absolutely catastrophic imo - not just for the club but the town as well

[Bordeauxclaret]

All well and good just saying chuck in rail seating in the CFS, but there’s safety to think of. Doubtful whether it would get signed off. Fans are already saying the concourse is a death trap, and with limited facilities to go with it.

It wouldn’t increase capacity with rail seats would it?

[wilks_bfc]

It wouldn’t increase capacity with rail seats would it?

It would depend on the size of the rail seat

If the seat same size as the current seats then no, but if smaller then would gain some extra

[TheFamilyCat]

You forgot putting away fans in the JML.

Damn it!

[NewClaret]

It would depend on the size of the rail seat

If the seat same size as the current seats then no, but if smaller then would gain some extra

I think rail seats are the same size as plastic ones, but smaller than the wooden ones so I think you’d get a small increase by replacing them all in the CFS.

[NewClaret]

is there any evidence that a club can grow?

Yes, crowds can increase with success, but will disappear fairly quickly over a few seasons once relegated and there is no quick return. That's not growth, just jumping on the bandwagon.

It depends what you mean by club can grow?

If you mean evidence we can grow our fanbase, absolutely yes; just look at our ST count, average attendances, etc. I’m sure if you mapped those on to a graph you’d see a steady increase over the last three decades.

More broadly the club has grown across a whole range of metrics, like revenue, social media followers, engagement, probably nps scores if we took them, etc.

Of course less fans will attend matches if the product is less appealing, which it would be if we were in the third or fourth tier but I’d like to hope attendances would be higher in future than they were in the past when we were in those leagues if that were to happen.

What I don’t think you should do is put a ceiling on what the club could be by being fearful of what might happen if we were to be less successful in future. You need to remain ambitious and aspirational to attract fans and keep pushing “forever forward” else is becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[NewClaret]

all very expensive though and that is the key here - how long (if ever) will the ROI take

I think on stadium redevelopment it’s very difficult to ever achieve an ROI, particularly at our club, which likely explains why it’s been so underinvested by our previous owners.

Or at least the ROI runs so far in to the future that the owners know they won’t be around to benefit. For me the benefits are intangible but strong nonetheless:

- Better players want to play in good stadiums with good facilities.
- More fans will want to attend - restricted views and being rained on puts people off!
- It projects an image of a growing and aspirational club.
- Ultimately it’s an essential cost because you have to maintain your asset. Nobody likes having your car serviced or new windows in the house, but you have to do them.

Although with AP’s comments about “sweating the asset” in his early interviews I hold out zero hope of any proper refurbishment anytime soon.

[Spijed]

What I don’t think you should do is put a ceiling on what the club could be by being fearful of what might happen if we were to be less successful in future. You need to remain ambitious and aspirational to attract fans and keep pushing “forever forward” else is becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

And we now see plenty of clubs with the same mindset.....

Who then get relegated, have borrowed against future earnings....

And find themselves in big trouble....

But, yes, go ahead and imagine that' we'll never get relegated and see all the riches of the Premier league disappear over a season or two.

[NewClaret]

And we now see plenty of clubs with the same mindset.....

Who then get relegated, have borrowed against future earnings....

And find themselves in big trouble....

But, yes, go ahead and imagine that' we'll never get relegated and see all the riches of the Premier league disappear over a season or two.

Where did I say we should borrow money?

I’ve always said I dislike us having debt.

The time to invest in this infrastructure was when we had £50m-£80m in the bank. But we all know those running the club at that time were more interested in extracting that money for themselves than investing in the right areas for the clubs long term benefit.

[IanMcL]

that is some some tardis like maths

Tardis Moor


Time And Relative Dimensions in Seating

[2 Bee Holed]

Surely the easiest and quickest way to increase capacity is replace the wooden seats in the CFS & Bob Lord stand with plastic ones.

Just what's needed under there. Even more people trying to use the same space and 6 urinals.

[Dark Cloud]

Regarding our ground being embarrassing, don't away fans see it, like Everton's, as a "Proper" ground, that fans tend to appreciate more?

I know what you're saying and yes, a good number do describe it that way, but I'd suggest it's the "older end" like myself who were around in the 60s, 70s and 80s when grounds did tend to be a hotchpotch of building different bits in different eras and were somewhat cobbled together with little heed paid to comfort or H&S. I'd suggest the younger element amongst fans tend to expect better, particularly in terms of purpose building and facilities behind the stands etc. and this will become increasingly so. Having said that, I have absolutely no wish or desire for BFC to move. The location of the Turf is brilliant and these days somewhat old fashioned when compared to many clubs being so close to town, but to me that's exactly how it should always be.

[bfcwest]

It depends what you mean by club can grow?

If you mean evidence we can grow our fanbase, absolutely yes; just look at our ST count, average attendances, etc. I’m sure if you mapped those on to a graph you’d see a steady increase over the last three decades.

More broadly the club has grown across a whole range of metrics, like revenue, social media followers, engagement, probably nps scores if we took them, etc.

Of course less fans will attend matches if the product is less appealing, which it would be if we were in the third or fourth tier but I’d like to hope attendances would be higher in future than they were in the past when we were in those leagues if that were to happen.

What I don’t think you should do is put a ceiling on what the club could be by being fearful of what might happen if we were to be less successful in future. You need to remain ambitious and aspirational to attract fans and keep pushing “forever forward” else is becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Spot on.
If we had a bigger capacity, with more seats that people want to sit it, then we would be getting bigger attendances.
And so what if we went down and the ground was a bit too big for certain games! You have the capacity ready for when good times return.

[bfcwest]

And we now see plenty of clubs with the same mindset.....

Who then get relegated, have borrowed against future earnings....

And find themselves in big trouble....

But, yes, go ahead and imagine that' we'll never get relegated and see all the riches of the Premier league disappear over a season or two.

The clubs that have been relegated and got into trouble are as a result of over investment in players and wages, not the stadium!

[depechedingle]

Until there is a definite long term need for an increase in capacity, I would leave it as it is.

We weren't selling out the last time in the Premier League and I get that it is all change now and the feel good factor means that demand outstrips availability, but it won't be this good forever and we wouldn't want a 30k stadium half full would we???

[Paul Waine]

I was with supporters of other clubs last night and so many of them were saying they were delighted we were back because they love coming to the Turf despite the poor facilities on offer for away fans.

I was in a sports club earlier this week in football kit after a walking football session. The young barman asked me, is that a Burnley shirt? I replied yes - though most on here would know I was wearing the white training top when the Clarets first got promoted to the Premier League. He said he always enjoyed going to Turf Moor and having a drink in the cricket club. He told me he was a Crystal Palace fan. I told him I enjoy going to Selhurst Park, although the away fans view isn't great, particularly high in the stand with the low roof and restricted view of the edge of the pitch to the left.

UTC

[houseboy]

We’ve had this discussion so many times. There is absolutely no need for an increase in capacity and never has been. Our average in the top flight has always in my lifetime been around 19/20k. That’s even when we had a far bigger capacity and could pull in over 30 for big games, when it was pay on the day and we got 10k visitors. Even then the average was only around the twenty mark.

[yTib]

i too think the current capacity is about right.

i still hate the two 'new' stands though.

[timshorts]

The amount of times I've reluctantly had this conversation with dim, glory hunting, Sussex born and bred Chelsea fans

Sorry, but what is this bit about? There are parts of sussex where it is easier to get to Chelsea, arsenal, West ham than it is to get to Brighton if going by train. The road and rail system is all designed to get people to London.

Totally agree with the man u point, though.

[dandeclaret]

I think the older fans do, as a sort of trip back to how it used to be "in the good old days"

Not so much the younger generation I guess with everything plastic and having a short life span
in this throw away society.

It’s mostly young people on the vlogs that get shared on here, and they seem to give the traditional ground the thumbs up more often than not.

[alwaysaclaret]

Spot on.
If we had a bigger capacity, with more seats that people want to sit it, then we would be getting bigger attendances.
And so what if we went down and the ground was a bit too big for certain games! You have the capacity ready for when good times return.

I honestly believe we could become a stoke /west brom type, ie 25/26,000 if we continue to do well and play good football under vk, the biggest reason we're not getting to that is because the capacity is not there, I totally agree. Yes there are always probably between 250 and 1000 seats depending who we're playing but a lot of those seats are on the edges etc, or with poor views, and then you have to factor in the weather and getting drenched because the roof and design of the j mac, and Longside don't provide enough cover, this needs addressing. But I'm sure today's technology and design could put a small tier ie 1000/1200 seats on the bob lord stand, and then new cricket field stand similar to the one at forest again with a small tier up top to incorporate an extra 1500 on top of what it is now, moving forward we have to aspire to be a bit bigger club, and give fans the chance to come and watch. The long term financial gain would be massive to a club like us imo.

[ClaretPete001]

It depends what you mean by club can grow?

If you mean evidence we can grow our fanbase, absolutely yes; just look at our ST count, average attendances, etc. I’m sure if you mapped those on to a graph you’d see a steady increase over the last three decades.

More broadly the club has grown across a whole range of metrics, like revenue, social media followers, engagement, probably nps scores if we took them, etc.

Of course less fans will attend matches if the product is less appealing, which it would be if we were in the third or fourth tier but I’d like to hope attendances would be higher in future than they were in the past when we were in those leagues if that were to happen.

What I don’t think you should do is put a ceiling on what the club could be by being fearful of what might happen if we were to be less successful in future. You need to remain ambitious and aspirational to attract fans and keep pushing “forever forward” else is becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

"If you mean evidence we can grow our fanbase, absolutely yes; just look at our ST count, average attendances, etc. I’m sure if you mapped those on to a graph you’d see a steady increase over the last three decades."

I'm sure if you spent 2 minutes on Wikipedia it would become self evident that mostly that isn't true.

21/22   Premier League  18,300
18/19   Premier League  20,534
17/18   Premier League  20,688
16/17   Premier League  20,558
14/15   Premier League  19,131
09-Oct   Premier League  20,654
75/76   First Division (- 91/92)  20,318
74/75   First Division (- 91/92)  23,468
73/74   First Division (- 91/92)  19,837
70/71   First Division (- 91/92)  21,831
69/70   First Division (- 91/92)  19,030
68/69   First Division (- 91/92)  20,231
67/68   First Division (- 91/92)  20,031
66/67   First Division (- 91/92)  20,178
65/66   First Division (- 91/92)  22,901
64/65   First Division (- 91/92)  18,562
63/64   First Division (- 91/92)  22,627
62/63   First Division (- 91/92)  26,905
61/62   First Division (- 91/92)  23,738
60/61   First Division (- 91/92)  22,628
59/60   First Division (- 91/92)  28,990

[NewClaret]

I'm sure if you spent 2 minutes on Wikipedia it would become self evident that mostly that isn't true.

Did you see that I’d said last three decades?

[Claretforever]

"If you mean evidence we can grow our fanbase, absolutely yes; just look at our ST count, average attendances, etc. I’m sure if you mapped those on to a graph you’d see a steady increase over the last three decades."

I'm sure if you spent 2 minutes on Wikipedia it would become self evident that mostly that isn't true.

21/22   Premier League  18,300
18/19   Premier League  20,534
17/18   Premier League  20,688
16/17   Premier League  20,558
14/15   Premier League  19,131
09-Oct   Premier League  20,654
75/76   First Division (- 91/92)  20,318
74/75   First Division (- 91/92)  23,468
73/74   First Division (- 91/92)  19,837
70/71   First Division (- 91/92)  21,831
69/70   First Division (- 91/92)  19,030
68/69   First Division (- 91/92)  20,231
67/68   First Division (- 91/92)  20,031
66/67   First Division (- 91/92)  20,178
65/66   First Division (- 91/92)  22,901
64/65   First Division (- 91/92)  18,562
63/64   First Division (- 91/92)  22,627
62/63   First Division (- 91/92)  26,905
61/62   First Division (- 91/92)  23,738
60/61   First Division (- 91/92)  22,628
59/60   First Division (- 91/92)  28,990

Your reply wasn’t to me, and I understand the point you’re making, but the Premier League era attendances aren’t the best example. By that I mean we were restricted by capacity. Many games in MOST of those seasons we could have had many thousands more on, so the average would have been higher.

I’m not a build a huge ground just in case kind of person, but we could definitely make use of another 3-4,000 when in the Premier League.

[Spijed]

Last season average 19,697 so approx 2000 below capacity

[ClaretPete001]

Did you see that I’d said last three decades?

For what purpose New? Comparing attendances in the PL and the lower tiers is meaningless.

You've got 60 years of data saying the same thing, which is that the attendances at the club are the same because of fundamental issues like the size of the population and local competition.

30 year ago we were in division 3. And yes the club has more followers on social media than in 1992/3 and no doubt we sell more tickets online than in 1992 and the club's supporters have smaller phones etc. but you have no evidence that we have a bigger fanbase.

The last season we had one of our largest ever attendance in the season prior to that one of the lowest in the PL.

And prior to that it's been pretty consistent...

[wilks_bfc]

Last season average 19,697 so approx 2000 below capacity

You need to do the average excluding away fans to have any meaningful figures

If the away section only sells 500 of their allocation then it’s not as though the remaining can be sold onto our fans

[ClaretPete001]

Your reply wasn’t to me, and I understand the point you’re making, but the Premier League era attendances aren’t the best example. By that I mean we were restricted by capacity. Many games in MOST of those seasons we could have had many thousands more on, so the average would have been higher.

I’m not a build a huge ground just in case kind of person, but we could definitely make use of another 3-4,000 when in the Premier League.

Indeed but we didn't sell out the home end often and prior to that we did have a larger capacity and still had the same average support because people didn't have to buy season tickets to get in..

Rovers is a great example, they have average gates as high as 25,000 in the PL because they could sell out an away stand of 6,000 but they now have to shut sections of stands for the East Lancashire derby.

In other words, if you only increase capacity by 2,000 it's hardly worth doing it and if you increase by more you might actually lose STH to walk-ons.

But my main point is, the stats suggest that the potential fan base is limited by more than footballing issues.

[Jamesy]

The bob lord doesn't even reach this side of the road, never mind the other side. Extending it above the offices would be enough.

I’m not sure what sort of construction you have in mind, but to build cantilever roof stands requires quite a large footprint.

[Royboyclaret]

Your reply wasn’t to me, and I understand the point you’re making, but the Premier League era attendances aren’t the best example. By that I mean we were restricted by capacity. Many games in MOST of those seasons we could have had many thousands more on, so the average would have been higher.

I’m not a build a huge ground just in case kind of person, but we could definitely make use of another 3-4,000 when in the Premier League.

Not for the first time, Claretforever nails it......Be good if someone with influence was listening.

[Claretforever]

Indeed but we didn't sell out the home end often and prior to that we did have a larger capacity and still had the same average support because people didn't have to buy season tickets to get in..

Rovers is a great example, they have average gates as high as 25,000 in the PL because they could sell out an away stand of 6,000 but they now have to shut sections of stands for the East Lancashire derby.

In other words, if you only increase capacity by 2,000 it's hardly worth doing it and if you increase by more you might actually lose STH to walk-ons.

But my main point is, the stats suggest that the potential fan base is limited by more than footballing issues.

My thinking is actually more long term. I understand that whilst in the Premier League we’ll always be punching above our weight in this day and age.

Whilst we are in the Premier League though, we could be future proofing the club by enticing the next generation of fans from further afield, perhaps even from the traditional catchment areas of other clubs which increases our normal fanbase even if we are relegated again.

How do we do that?
We market like mad as the only Premier League club in post-1974 Lancashire. One issue we have is that there isn’t enough free space to risk marketing right now as we will sell out our 19,500 home seats, or will be close most games.

What’s their experience right now if we get a new potential fan through the gate?
Well we’ve sold out season tickets and other games will be sold in advance, meaning all decent seats and views will be gone. An adult brings his child and ends up in the corner of a bottom tier, maybe getting wet through. Not great.

Redevelopment will not only enhance the match day experience for our current fans, it may allow us to market the club heavily, do deals, free transport (Blackburn did this massively as far away as Lancaster to the university areas in the 90’s) etc and those fans to get a decent view, maybe even to a reasonable fixture.

Again, I’m not talking 8-10,000 seats, just 3-4,000 which would give us around 25,000.

We are also signing players quite strategically I feel, such as Foster, where the South Africans go mad for him. They’ll want tickets. If we sign a Chinese or Japanese player, they’ll also gravitate towards us. It’s why JJ Watt has been brought onboard. It’s how some of the bigger clubs increase their global fan base and sell more shirts and tickets. 2023 is a whole different ball game to 1973, and even 2009. There will be a limit but the potential to grow a little is definitely there. It depends how brave we are.

[Spijed]

You need to do the average excluding away fans to have any meaningful figures

If the away section only sells 500 of their allocation then it’s not as though the remaining can be sold onto our fans

Up to the Cardiff game (There is no figure for that match) the away average last season was 1334 out of about 2200 or thereabouts so that means we had about 1,100 unsold on average for each game last season in the home ends.

[Claretforever]

Up to the Cardiff game (There is no figure for that match) the away average last season was 1334 out of about 2200 or thereabouts so that means we had about 1,100 unsold on average for each game last season in the home ends.

They sold 1,700 and that was the figure their side were reporting. No sales on the day.

[Wokingclaret]

Not for the first time, Claretforever nails it......Be good if someone with influence was listening.

Always thought we should have a 25K capacity, but thank goodness we didn't build the Bread bin stand

[JohnMac]

8000 away tickets every game

[JohnMac]

In all seriousness and respect to the OP's typo, I don't think we can justify more capacity. The attendance boost recently has been down to VK's success, we had it under SD but it soon dropped away.

[Quicknick]

No thanks.

[yTib]

i would demolish the beehole. rebuild it with one steep tier. then do the same with the longside a season later.

maybe a thousand or so extra capacity but more about atmosphere on matchday and more arenatastic for events.

[RammyClaret61]

I would just increase the Bob Lord. Room to add about 10 rows of seats. 200 ish per row. I’d put a decent sized walkway where the stand finishes now. Also going up the sides of the steps I’d remove one seat from the end of each row to widen the entry/exit. Would probably be a net increase of 1500.

[Claretforever]

Plans to increase the size of the Bob Lord, taking the stand back to the original back wall of the old Brunshaw Road stand, in the early 2000’s.

Not a second tier, just an extension of what we have now, further back above the current exec areas with is empty space. Not sure the rules on concourse sizes etc as it’s be a squeeze unless they repurpose some areas in the exec areas?

By my reckoning it would add around 2,500 to the capacity, especially if the stand was renovated with *cough* plastic seats which are around 10-15% smaller I believe?

I think it was Dave Roberts who posted this on Twitter?

[Spijed]

i would demolish the beehole. rebuild it with one steep tier. then do the same with the longside a season later.

maybe a thousand or so extra capacity but more about atmosphere on matchday and more arenatastic for events.

It could never be used for regular events due to poor transport links and parking.

[ClaretPete001]

My thinking is actually more long term. I understand that whilst in the Premier League we’ll always be punching above our weight in this day and age.

Whilst we are in the Premier League though, we could be future proofing the club by enticing the next generation of fans from further afield, perhaps even from the traditional catchment areas of other clubs which increases our normal fanbase even if we are relegated again.

How do we do that?
We market like mad as the only Premier League club in post-1974 Lancashire. One issue we have is that there isn’t enough free space to risk marketing right now as we will sell out our 19,500 home seats, or will be close most games.

What’s their experience right now if we get a new potential fan through the gate?
Well we’ve sold out season tickets and other games will be sold in advance, meaning all decent seats and views will be gone. An adult brings his child and ends up in the corner of a bottom tier, maybe getting wet through. Not great.

Redevelopment will not only enhance the match day experience for our current fans, it may allow us to market the club heavily, do deals, free transport (Blackburn did this massively as far away as Lancaster to the university areas in the 90’s) etc and those fans to get a decent view, maybe even to a reasonable fixture.

Again, I’m not talking 8-10,000 seats, just 3-4,000 which would give us around 25,000.

We are also signing players quite strategically I feel, such as Foster, where the South Africans go mad for him. They’ll want tickets. If we sign a Chinese or Japanese player, they’ll also gravitate towards us. It’s why JJ Watt has been brought onboard. It’s how some of the bigger clubs increase their global fan base and sell more shirts and tickets. 2023 is a whole different ball game to 1973, and even 2009. There will be a limit but the potential to grow a little is definitely there. It depends how brave we are.

The long term attendance data suggests that there is a limit to attendances because of local population and competition. When we won the old First division in the 60s the attendances reached 28,000 but were soon back to closer to 20,000.

The reality is that in the one set of data we have ALK reduced non-broadcast revenue. We don't know why but would it not be a reasonable assumption that it is because they focus on things which are more speculative and not the hard work of creating commercial opportunities locally using traditional business methods?

The Burnley brand is not going to create lots of global opportunities any more than JJ Watts tweets. Saudi backed City group own a New York based football team that plays in the Yankee stadium and they get the gates we do.

ALK do not appear to be sufficiently capitalised to be really be able to increase marketing spend, particularly on branding, maintain the clubs position in the PL and spend considerable money on social media projects.

But what would the consequences be of increasing the stadium be: shutting stands? Reducing capacity? Reducing income when we most need it and what would the benefits be - a couple of million extra revenue in a league where we get £120 million from broadcast revenue.

You may have a brilliant point but put some figures on it..

[dibraidio]

Plans to increase the size of the Bob Lord, taking the stand back to the original back wall of the old Brunshaw Road stand, in the early 2000’s.

Not a second tier, just an extension of what we have now, further back above the current exec areas with is empty space. Not sure the rules on concourse sizes etc as it’s be a squeeze unless they repurpose some areas in the exec areas?

By my reckoning it would add around 2,500 to the capacity, especially if the stand was renovated with *cough* plastic seats which are around 10-15% smaller I believe?

I think it was Dave Roberts who posted this on Twitter?

Serveral thoughts spring to mind. Would the existing foundations be strong enough to support that sort of extension? Presumably yes because otherwise they'd not have gone as far with the design.
Are the existing exits sufficient for increased capacity? With all the buildings along the front of the Bob Lord I can't see us creating any new ones.
Could they build an additional concourse above the existing courtyard area at the cricket field end behind the Bob Lord?
Would they really go for a cantilever roof these days or one with supports either side like the new one at Anfield?
Would it be possible to build the extra capacity and roof and still keep the Bob Lord open?
If the club were to do it I'm sure they would combine it with replacing the wooden seats to have the whole stand in line and that could almost double the capacity. I know it would upset a few people but ALK are more about making money than keeping old folks happy.

The only reason I can so for doing it however is if there is a significant increase in seats that can be sold with hospitality packages. Other than that it's a waste of money and the payback won't be quick enough for ALK as it will take decades.

[ArmchairDetective]

I agree with this.

The most sensible way forward in my view would be to extend the longside around to a two tier CFS, then have a big, wide tunnel in the corner with new state of the art changing rooms in the new quadrant - they are badly needed if we want to belong at this level.

Assuming the same capacity as the Jimmy Mac we’d gain around ~2000 extra seats:

- give 1k to the away team meaning at Prem level we’d be reciprocating their allocations and adding about £30k per home game income + some corporate for rich away fans (there’ll be plenty).
- 1k for us as available for ST holders, where we’re presumably accumulating a waiting list.

Upper tier would be safe standing and follow that around to the longside. Lower tier seating for those who need it.

Leave the BL - it’s loved by the fans that use it and any extension would ruin my view

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Don't anyone dare touch that Bob Lord Stand - and I don't even sit in it!

[Spijed]

What does "Belonging" in the Premier league actually mean?

We had six seasons.

Leicester won the PL and FA Cup as well as playing in the Champions league but couldn't sustain a place in the Prem.

Southampton have been in the Prem for a few seasons longer than us and couldn't survive.

Everton have a bigger fan base than most teams can only dream of yet have been close to dropping.

People need to realise that only clubs with extreme wealth will survive.

Let's just enjoy our time in the Prem without trying to "establish" ourselves. Something that is unlikely to happen unless some Arab takes us over.

[Claretforever]

The long term attendance data suggests that there is a limit to attendances because of local population and competition. When we won the old First division in the 60s the attendances reached 28,000 but were soon back to closer to 20,000.

The reality is that in the one set of data we have ALK reduced non-broadcast revenue. We don't know why but would it not be a reasonable assumption that it is because they focus on things which are more speculative and not the hard work of creating commercial opportunities locally using traditional business methods?

The Burnley brand is not going to create lots of global opportunities any more than JJ Watts tweets. Saudi backed City group own a New York based football team that plays in the Yankee stadium and they get the gates we do.

ALK do not appear to be sufficiently capitalised to be really be able to increase marketing spend, particularly on branding, maintain the clubs position in the PL and spend considerable money on social media projects.

But what would the consequences be of increasing the stadium be: shutting stands? Reducing capacity? Reducing income when we most need it and what would the benefits be - a couple of million extra revenue in a league where we get £120 million from broadcast revenue.

You may have a brilliant point but put some figures on it..

I suppose another question might be when do you do it?

We have the Cricket Field stand which is in desperate need of a new roof as the entire structure is suspect and only just passing safety inspections.

Also, let’s say that we should let do it when in the Premier League because we pretty much fill the ground so capacity would have to drop.

Then we add in the revenue conundrum you pondered; what’s the point in a few million revenue when we get £120m?

I suppose I’d say this; we HAVE to do the Cricket Field soon. Whether it’s a full stand or new roof it HAS to be done.

Also, do we do it when we are in the Premier League with lots of money, or when we’re in the Championship and can’t afford it, and when crowds might not justify it for some fans? That’s a never ending dilemma.