Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Nori1958 » Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:20 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:07 pm
After watching all 4 my thoughts.
Religion was mentioned twice, once by AP and once by his daughter. There was more religion at the two weddings he missed games for.

His passion for the region and the club was obvious and looked genuine.

VK talking football and motivating was on another level. Incredible man

His point in the boardroom on his opinion of Ash Barnes changing was insightful.

The arrival of Al-Dakhil with his contract and bonuses being explained was enlightening, even if the figures were omitted.

I loved the scene with the lady in the fan zone and APs actions.

Ash Barnes will become a manager.

8/10. If it comes out on DVD I’ll have one.
The stuff about the transfer was interesting

Mr Pace is definitely passionate, some said on here recently that he's not a fan :lol:

Worried that others now see how good Kompany is

The woman with the table was a nut. Decided she'd have a moan about something, but Pace called her bluff, and when he returned with the cloth the table wasn't even dirty.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:31 pm

Interesting they talked about psychological profiling of players, it’s not something that gets talked about a lot across football and I can only assume it happens at some clubs but maybe not at others

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Silkyskills1 » Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:31 pm

martin_p wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 10:47 am
I’ve watched episode four and for a start she’s being misquoted on this thread. She doesn’t say letting Dyche go was an act of faith, she says even when times were bad, letting Dyche go, relegation, they had to have faith that something greater was coming and uses the phrase ‘god has a plan’. The bit about having to believe something better is coming when times are bad could be the literal definition of a football supporter!
Could be the second coming of the greatest Charles Dickens character 'Mr. Micawber'. He was the ultimate optimist and nothing wrong with that.
I've watched all four episodes and thoroughly enjoyed every aspect of it. That's my take on it.
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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by claptrappers_union » Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:59 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:03 pm
Echoing Clarettrappers views here, I am of the belief that a lot more of the doc could have been selling the club to neutrals, on our rich history and pedigree in the game, a lot less on Pace and co and their beliefs which were revisited numerous times.
I would've liked more of the Mormon stuff and the club history stuff. It's an angle that I was expecting to see more of, though I suspect that the LDS was a topic the filmmakers intended to start with, but in the end, it's probably not that engaging.

The Mormon Church is very protective of its image. That is probably why we didn't see any footage of the Pace family inside the church, and I suspect the shots of them walking through the car park were mocked up when it was closed, so the filmmakers probably didn't have much to work with. That's me speculating.

As I said, I think more could've gone into the series, possibly stretching it out to a six-parter, but I felt it was dragging a bit as four episodes, especially when we were approaching the Middlesbrough game; but it was getting late and I was getting tired, but I was committed to binging all of it for chit-chat when I go to the match later today. I might like it more upon second viewing.

I'd be interested to see the deleted scenes and extended cuts if there was an opportunity to look at them - It might be more interesting to Burnley fans, though.
Last edited by claptrappers_union on Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:00 pm

Spiral wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:19 am
Now I've watched the first episode, I feel somewhat more vindicated in my comments about framing than some of the replies since its release led me to expect. Simple fact of the matter is, people either don't understand framing, and they don't understand composition, or they do and they simply don't want to acknowledge it. It's as though people are holding to the standard that nothing short of wall to wall spirituality would validate what I've said, when in fact I've never made such a claim. Ep.1 should've been titled 'The Passion of the Chairman'. The meta narrative of ep.1 is Pace's Passion (as in the Latin 'Passion' associated with Christianity, meaning suffering, bearing i.e. the cross - not the way we use 'passion' in every day language). There are church organs (synthesised) playing over the intro sequence where the owners are playing football and their comments on their religion overlaid, which sets the tone from the outset. This is a deliberate compositional choice. This has the effect of predisposing a passive viewer to unconsciously pass the subsequent images and spoken words through a prism or filter of religious meaning, because an association in the viewer's mind has happened between the owners, their faith, and the club without the uncritical viewer even consciously noticing it (nobody has mentioned the church organs yet, I think I'm the first to comment on the church organs opening up the entire documentary). The cinematic language tells the viewer: this is a spiritual story.

Throughout the episode Pace is metaphorically 'suffering', such as at the moment of relegation (I use inverted commas on 'suffering' not to suggest he wasn't hurt by relegation, because I believe he genuinely was; I use the inverted commas to highlight the analogue to religious Passion, this is what I mean to convey by putting the word 'suffering' in inverted commas). What is his mercy from this suffering? His Church, i.e. God. The scene immediately following the dust settling on relegation is his visit to the church. The meta narrative here is thus: life is suffering, consolation is found through the Church. This narrative arc told through the edit sequence is another conscious storytelling choice. Pain...god...mercy. His visit to his church juxtaposed against the pain of relegation communicates this spiritual message which the viewer has been primed to be receptive to by the compositional choice in the opening sequence. Who is the saviour in this story of Passion? Vincent, of course. Here the Saviour is placed outside of He who suffers (He/Pace who suffers suffers for all of us/Burnley fans), and thus the world has its saviour (with the benefit of hindsight this was a good choice of saviour). This spiritual theme, communicated through editorial 'wordchoice', image, sound and recorded speech, is readable from the first scene in ep.1, and I've not even watched the other three. There's enough cinematic language being spoken that ep.1 can viably be viewed critically through the lens of The Passion.
Hi Spiral, firstly, I guess I must disclose that I've not yet watched any of "Mission to Burnley." All I've done is read all the comments on this thread and TV reviews in The Times and The Guardian.

My thoughts: we know Alan Pace and all the ALK Capital ownership group are Americans; we know Alan Pace and several of ALK Capital are members of the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormons); we know that Alan Pace's father came to Lancashire (and maybe elsewhere) in his Mormon missionary service; we know that Alan Pace was involved with Salt Lake City football club; we possibly also all know that the Mormon church has significant wealth.

We all know that when Alan Pace and ALK Capital acquired their majority stake in Burnley Football Club that they borrowed money, both from the club and from MSD to fund a large part of their purchase. (This loan from the club to ALK Capital, via Calder Vale and the rest of the corporate structure based on the 31st July 2022 financial accounts remains owed to the club). Over the period since ALK Capital bought their shares we've been introduced to new investors: Malcolm Jenkins, JJ and Kealia Watt, Dude Perfect. JJ Watt and Dude Perfect in particular appear to have very public profiles through which they can promote the club. I don't think it stops there.

"Mission to Burnley" is also promoting investment in Burnley Football Club. Yes, it's great for the fans to watch 4 episodes that cover very exciting times in the club's evolving history. I don't know whether you have spent much time in the US. I lived for a short time in New York. For more than a decade I worked for US owned businesses and visited the US for work regularly, often for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. Church and religion flows through a lot of US society. It's not just the Pilgrim Fathers who left Plymouth some centuries ago, or the Irish who emigrated in the 19th century, or the southern churches where many of the superstars of pop learnt to sing in the 1950s/60s. My work colleagues, when I was in New York, would speak on Monday morning (if Christians) about the church service they attended at the weekend. Other colleagues who were members of the Jewish faith would leave the office early on the eve of their sabbath to observe their faith.

I contend that "Mission to Burnley" is particularly promoting investment in Burnley Football Club to US investors. This is why Alan Pace's Mormon faith features in the series. Yes, maybe Alan Pace will be delighted if there are few more making their way to the Church of Latter Day Saints on some weekends. But, he and his ALK Capital colleagues will all count "Mission to Burnley" a success if it converts a few more wealthy US investors to become investors in Burnley Football Club.

And, more money invested in Burnley Football Club means more success on the football field for the Clarets and more for us all to enjoy and celebrate as fans.

Exciting times.

UTC

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:02 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:44 am
Speaking of literal definitions - taking action based upon beliefs of unfalsifiable claims is exactly what an irrational person does.
You really love the word unfalsifiable don’t you. Does it make you feel cleverer.
Anyway there's a reason it's called 'faith' and not 'absolute'.

There isn't anyone that can give an absolute proof of a God, yet billions of people around the planet believe in one deity or another.

Your atheism, whilst relevant to you, doesn't give you the right to rubbish other people's feelings.
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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by CoolClaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:16 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:02 pm
You really love the word unfalsifiable don’t you. Does it make you feel cleverer.
Anyway there's a reason it's called 'faith' and not 'absolute'.

There isn't anyone that can give an absolute proof of a God, yet billions of people around the planet believe in one deity or another.

Your atheism, whilst relevant to you, doesn't give you the right to rubbish other people's feelings.
I like the falsifiability hypothesis of course - it’s genius by Karl Popper.

Anything worth knowing or doing has to be falsifiable or it’s irrational whether it upsets people or not, facts literally do not care about people’s feelings - the entire scientific method is basically the falsifiable principle.

That’s fine people are happy to have those beliefs as long as they don’t infringe on other peoples liberty which they do in countless countries around the world.

This is where your argument holds 0 credence - I’m not asserting anything in my viewpoints at all nor do you have any idea what my own personal ’beliefs’ are.

It’s not that it’s relevant to me (not that you know what I actually believe) it’s the fact that it just, erm, is.

I will invoke ‘Hitchens Razor’ here -

‘What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence’.
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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by JTClaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:21 pm

I watched all 4 episodes last night and loved it.

I thought Pace came across fantastically well. I also didn't know that his links to Burnley stemmed from his dad who had been in the area for religious purposes... which to those making comments about the religion side, I feel it ties in as it answers 'Why Burnley?' as so many asked of him.
I loved the little prep talk he received on relegation when he was fighting to hold a smile in front of the cameras - This could be a good thing, now you can do it on your own, your way. What a fantastic thing to say to someone in that moment.

Kompany is exactly what everyone thinks he might be, and we are lucky to have him.

As a few people have said, I was one who would tape the clips of Burnley on the tv back in the 90s. I had to pinch myself I was watching an amazing season, including winning the league at 'the enemy' in 'THE game', on a Sky documentary about the club. What a time this is!

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Re: Mission to Burnley

Post by Cooclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:27 pm

claret wizard wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:15 pm
It is! You complaining?

The back streets are in the credits though.
No not at all. There’s a very large Mormon presence in and around Hest Bank and Carnforth. Wondered if that’s where the Chairman is based.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:29 pm

Are we just going to continue banging on about religion?

I’m an atheist and I’ll take apart religion all day on twitter when I’m bored but I’m not sure why it’s such a big issue on here for some right now….
Especially as it barely features in this documentary
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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by MT03ALG » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:31 pm

Where can I watch all 4 episodes without waiting for the next 3 weeks ?

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by CoolClaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:32 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:29 pm
Are we just going to continue banging on about religion?

I’m an atheist and I’ll take apart religion all day on twitter when I’m bored but I’m not sure why it’s such a big issue on here for some right now….
Especially as it barely features in this documentary
No I’ll stop now. Just feel like it was unnecessary in the doc and was filler where other/better selling points of BFC could have been utilised.

There, I saved someone 10+ pages

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Cooclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:33 pm

I wonder if this documentary puts to bed some of the issues people have found with the chairman and how the club was acquired and is being run?

It’s a fantastic piece of exposure for the club.
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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Cooclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:36 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:16 pm
I like the falsifiability hypothesis of course - it’s genius by Karl Popper.

Anything worth knowing or doing has to be falsifiable or it’s irrational whether it upsets people or not, facts literally do not care about people’s feelings - the entire scientific method is basically the falsifiable principle.

That’s fine people are happy to have those beliefs as long as they don’t infringe on other peoples liberty which they do in countless countries around the world.

This is where your argument holds 0 credence - I’m not asserting anything in my viewpoints at all nor do you have any idea what my own personal ’beliefs’ are.

It’s not that it’s relevant to me (not that you know what I actually believe) it’s the fact that it just, erm, is.

I will invoke ‘Hitchens Razor’ here -

‘What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence’.
The issue with science, is that it’s a very incomplete tool.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:41 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:33 pm
I wonder if this documentary puts to bed some of the issues people have found with the chairman and how the club was acquired and is being run?

It’s a fantastic piece of exposure for the club.
It should do
There were many comments that AlK didn’t understand football, were out of their depth, didn’t understand what the club means to the fans etc

I think it shows the complete opposite and that they’ve also had budgets they’ve tired to stick too etc
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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by CoolClaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:41 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:36 pm
The issue with science, is that it’s a very incomplete tool.
Staggering.

It never claims to be anything but an ongoing process based upon repeatable, falsifiable results.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Cooclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:15 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:41 pm
Staggering.

It never claims to be anything but an ongoing process based upon repeatable, falsifiable results.

As is religion, science is nothing more than an extension of religion.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by CoolClaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:21 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:15 pm
As is religion, science is nothing more than an extension of religion.
It really, really isn’t.

I sincerely hope that you’re trolling - if not then I suggest that you should stop watching Jordan Peterson’s new pseudo Intellectual content designed to grift his fan base

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:34 pm

Just finished the final episode

Really enjoyed it all, some good insights into not just the club but football in general
Casts us in a very good light, I think, and shows long may that continue

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by AlargeClaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:38 pm

I thought the sheer naivety of some of Alan’s Mormon buddies when it came to transfer fees and having any understanding of prem /English football was mind boggling . Though their finance model and budgeting etc were definitely not in doubt. Though the embarrassing and quite ludicrous opening set up with Al and mates having a “spontaneous kick about “ while whooping to “ go for it “ we got this “ was unitentionally hilarious .

As a BFC fan I very much enjoyed it , it’s hardly “ warts n all “ and is a bit stilted because we were always winning . Thought gives a decent surface look into the running of the club . As for religion , it’s certainly runs in the background without ever being obtrusive IMO . Though AP comes over as well apart from a bat sh1t crazy daughter , Ashlyn ??

VK naturally comes over well and you can only hope we keep faith if things get tough . All in all a decent 7/10 .

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Big Vinny K » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:42 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:15 pm
As is religion, science is nothing more than an extension of religion.
Wibble

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Cooclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:51 pm

Just having a bet with a pal; which three would be first on to bully/criticise. One short but enough to win the bet…

Thanks lads, you never ever let us down…👍🏼

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Spiral » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:55 pm

It's amusing how a post ending with the sentence 'ep.1 can viably be view critically through the lens of The Passion' is being read as a genuine 'review' and not the high-effort ironic over-analysis that it is. The giveaway is the follow up post where I say to TheFamilyCat that he may be reading too much into a line. :lol:

Still to watch the other three episodes this weekend, but being serious for a minute, what I like about the first episode at least is how genuine Pace's emotional investment in the club is. I think he gets it more than some other owners, and while all that really matters to a fan is whether or not they're good owners, them feeling the club at an emotional level is always a good thing. Aside from some legit concerns over the leveraged buyout, I don't think this emotional investment has ever been much doubted about Pace, and it's nice to see that backed up in the doc.
Last edited by Spiral on Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by CoolClaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:56 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:51 pm
Just having a bet with a pal; which three would be first on to bully/criticise. One short but enough to win the bet…

Thanks lads, you never ever let us down…👍🏼
Imagine posting that after trying to falsely equivocate the scientific method with religion.

Muppet

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by HitchinClaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:57 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:51 pm
Just having a bet with a pal; which three would be first on to bully/criticise. One short but enough to win the bet…

Thanks lads, you never ever let us down…👍🏼
What do posters get from being antagonistic all the time? Why can't you just post on here as if you would converse in a pub with your mates?

There are a lot of mental health problems in the world today, but surely none can be solved by picking petty arguments on a football message board. This is not just pointed at the poster quoted, but quite a few others who I understand have issues also.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Spiral » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:59 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:38 pm
I thought the sheer naivety of some of Alan’s Mormon buddies when it came to transfer fees and having any understanding of prem /English football was mind boggling . Though their finance model and budgeting etc were definitely not in doubt. Though the embarrassing and quite ludicrous opening set up with Al and mates having a “spontaneous kick about “ while whooping to “ go for it “ we got this “ was unitentionally hilarious .

As a BFC fan I very much enjoyed it , it’s hardly “ warts n all “ and is a bit stilted because we were always winning . Thought gives a decent surface look into the running of the club . As for religion , it’s certainly runs in the background without ever being obtrusive IMO . Though AP comes over as well apart from a bat sh1t crazy daughter , Ashlyn ??

VK naturally comes over well and you can only hope we keep faith if things get tough . All in all a decent 7/10 .
Still to finish it but this feels like the best take to me based on what I've seen.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by aclaretinstevenage » Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:31 pm

HitchinClaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:57 pm
What do posters get from being antagonistic all the time? Why can't you just post on here as if you would converse in a pub with your mates?

There are a lot of mental health problems in the world today, but surely none can be solved by picking petty arguments on a football message board. This is not just pointed at the poster quoted, but quite a few others who I understand have issues also.
Absolutely agree. Attention seeking at it's worst.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by jedi_master » Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:33 pm

HitchinClaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:57 pm
What do posters get from being antagonistic all the time? Why can't you just post on here as if you would converse in a pub with your mates?
One of life's great mysteries - particularly when you realise, regardless of beliefs/political opinions and whatever else, we're all Burnley fans.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Cooclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 4:51 pm

HitchinClaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:57 pm
What do posters get from being antagonistic all the time? Why can't you just post on here as if you would converse in a pub with your mates?

There are a lot of mental health problems in the world today, but surely none can be solved by picking petty arguments on a football message board. This is not just pointed at the poster quoted, but quite a few others who I understand have issues also.
I’d argue that there is a culture of fear offered up by some of the members towards others. Sat with a few pals who also post on here, on Twitter etc and we were discussing how some posters get immediately jumped upon no matter what.

So you can’t argue one way and not the other…

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:38 pm

Just watched all four back to back, and I had a tear in my eye during some of that, this made me PROUD to be a Claret

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Tricky Trevor » Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:03 pm

MT03ALG wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:31 pm
Where can I watch all 4 episodes without waiting for the next 3 weeks ?
Sky docs catch up.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:04 pm

Spiral wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:19 am
Now I've watched the first episode, I feel somewhat more vindicated in my comments about framing than some of the replies since its release led me to expect. Simple fact of the matter is, people either don't understand framing, and they don't understand composition, or they do and they simply don't want to acknowledge it. It's as though people are holding to the standard that nothing short of wall to wall spirituality would validate what I've said, when in fact I've never made such a claim. Ep.1 should've been titled 'The Passion of the Chairman'. The meta narrative of ep.1 is Pace's Passion (as in the Latin 'Passion' associated with Christianity, meaning suffering, bearing i.e. the cross - not the way we use 'passion' in every day language). There are church organs (synthesised) playing over the intro sequence where the owners are playing football and their comments on their religion overlaid, which sets the tone from the outset. This is a deliberate compositional choice. This has the effect of predisposing a passive viewer to unconsciously pass the subsequent images and spoken words through a prism or filter of religious meaning, because an association in the viewer's mind has happened between the owners, their faith, and the club without the uncritical viewer even consciously noticing it (nobody has mentioned the church organs yet, I think I'm the first to comment on the church organs opening up the entire documentary). The cinematic language tells the viewer: this is a spiritual story.

Throughout the episode Pace is metaphorically 'suffering', such as at the moment of relegation (I use inverted commas on 'suffering' not to suggest he wasn't hurt by relegation, because I believe he genuinely was; I use the inverted commas to highlight the analogue to religious Passion, this is what I mean to convey by putting the word 'suffering' in inverted commas). What is his mercy from this suffering? His Church, i.e. God. The scene immediately following the dust settling on relegation is his visit to the church. The meta narrative here is thus: life is suffering, consolation is found through the Church. This narrative arc told through the edit sequence is another conscious storytelling choice. Pain...god...mercy. His visit to his church juxtaposed against the pain of relegation communicates this spiritual message which the viewer has been primed to be receptive to by the compositional choice in the opening sequence. Who is the saviour in this story of Passion? Vincent, of course. Here the Saviour is placed outside of He who suffers (He/Pace who suffers suffers for all of us/Burnley fans), and thus the world has its saviour (with the benefit of hindsight this was a good choice of saviour). This spiritual theme, communicated through editorial 'wordchoice', image, sound and recorded speech, is readable from the first scene in ep.1, and I've not even watched the other three. There's enough cinematic language being spoken that ep.1 can viably be viewed critically through the lens of The Passion.
FFS I thought I was the most pompous Burnley fan on here and now we've got this and Karl Popper on one thread. I'm going to have to try harder to be even more insufferably boorish to compete.

You are right I think that was absolutely the intent of the film makers. The whole thing was about religion...

But then again Bill Shankly said that football is a religion, and I think there is an interwoven sub plot about helplessness.

As one of the ALK board members said - the only thing we can't control is the 90 minutes on the pitch, which ties in with your point about The Passion.

As we all know football is an act of faith....

Well some of us know it - for other it's just 3 points for a win.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:09 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 4:51 pm
I’d argue that there is a culture of fear offered up by some of the members towards others. Sat with a few pals who also post on here, on Twitter etc and we were discussing how some posters get immediately jumped upon no matter what.

So you can’t argue one way and not the other…
I think some people just need to get out more & find some sort of a hobby that's top & bottom, people with far too much time on their hands with no productive purpose.
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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Cooclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:14 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:09 pm
I think some people just need to get out more & find some sort of a hobby that's top & bottom, people with far too much time on their hands with no productive purpose.
There’s a lot of retired people on here.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:58 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:14 pm
There’s a lot of retired people on here.
Age doesn't really have a bearing, far too many people who are totally engrossed by twitter & to a large degree that sadly allows them to function in a false cyberspace.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Cooclaret » Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:57 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:58 pm
Age doesn't really have a bearing, far too many people who are totally engrossed by twitter & to a large degree that sadly allows them to function in a false cyberspace.
I’d argue it does. The board has a heavy swing towards the older generation, it’ll die with them.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by CoolClaret » Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:11 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:04 pm
FFS I thought I was the most pompous Burnley fan on here and now we've got this and Karl Popper on one thread. I'm going to have to try harder to be even more insufferably boorish to compete.

You are right I think that was absolutely the intent of the film makers. The whole thing was about religion...

But then again Bill Shankly said that football is a religion, and I think there is an interwoven sub plot about helplessness.

As one of the ALK board members said - the only thing we can't control is the 90 minutes on the pitch, which ties in with your point about The Passion.

As we all know football is an act of faith....

Well some of us know it - for other it's just 3 points for a win.
Nothing wrong with a bit of logical positivism

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Hipper » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:37 am

I've now watched all four and quite frankly it's not much more then an edited season's review in order to make some points.

My most memorable take from it was Vinny f....g Kompany and his f...g final motivation f....g talk before a f.....g match. It seems on that f....g procedure things haven't f....g changed since we saw Frank f....g Casper doing a f....g similar thing some f....g forty years ago.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by jos » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:27 am

Hipper wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:37 am
I've now watched all four and quite frankly it's not much more then an edited season's review in order to make some points.

My most memorable take from it was Vinny f....g Kompany and his f...g final motivation f....g talk before a f.....g match. It seems on that f....g procedure things haven't f....g changed since we saw Frank f....g Casper doing a f....g similar thing some f....g forty years ago.
Yes, the swearing took a bit of the shine off.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Healeywoodclaret » Sat Aug 12, 2023 1:20 pm

Watched episode one. Alan Pace …… what a genuinely nice guy. I’m a life long Burnley Fan and have always wanted my Club to do well. For me it’s fascinating watching this thoroughly decent and gentle American guy jumping up and down in excitement when the Team score. Plenty of positives from last night too. VK a true Legend also a genuinely nice bloke. Success and prosperity I wish for our Club. UTC.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Spiral » Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:31 pm

Finished it. Thankfully the cringey religious shite was limited more or less to the first episode. It most definitely places Pace as the doc's protagonist, opening up with that nice canoe shot in the last episode being just one example. That's fine I suppose, I was just expecting a closer look at the team. One the swearing, that's in every single behind the scenes footy doc I've seen since they became a thing. The funniest one by far is Harry Kane dropping fks all over the place to rally the team because he just doesn't have the charisma to pull that off authentically. Vinny can pull that aggression off authentically, so can Pep who did it authentically in the City one, as did Jose in the Spurs one, even Arteta in the Arsenal one. With Kane it sounded so forced on him.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Venkys4eva » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:06 pm

Loved the documentary. Had to smile when he was explaining the transfer embargo to the players. Imagine wayne rooney (who quite a few utc forumites wanted) doing that. 😂😂😂

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by forzagranata » Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:09 pm

The 'Mission' certainly got Sky Sports 'on message' for last night's game anyway.

As well as Pace, they had JJ Watt playing American football with Jamie Carragher, Mrs Watt also interviewed and the 'Dude Perfect' blokes made an appearance explaining which other teams they supported.

I wouldn't have been surprised if we had Ronald McDonald having a shoot-out with Mickey Mouse.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:12 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:20 pm
The stuff about the transfer was interesting

Mr Pace is definitely passionate, some said on here recently that he's not a fan :lol:

Worried that others now see how good Kompany is

The woman with the table was a nut. Decided she'd have a moan about something, but Pace called her bluff, and when he returned with the cloth the table wasn't even dirty.
It was dirty, no idea where they are stored, but they should be cleaned before people arrive. she was complaining from the moment we arrived. Someone was winding her up to complain, to be fair.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Spiral » Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:22 pm

A psychologist would look at that whole interaction as someone trying to humble Pace. Princes throughout history right up to the present day in their guise as PMs and Presidents have had to contend with these sorts of immediate interpersonal power plays whenever their power is derived from the consent of the people. The same power dynamic appears here. The psychology goes like this: 'you may own the club, but that doesn't make you better than me, and I'll demonstrate that by having you perform some menial task at my instruction'. Most of the time people aren't even aware they're doing it. We've all been around folk like that lady. Totally harmless and lovely people, but it's easier just to play their game as Pace did.
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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Spiral wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:22 pm
A psychologist would look at that whole interaction as someone trying to humble Pace. Princes throughout history right up to the present day in their guise as PMs and Presidents have had to contend with these sorts of immediate interpersonal power plays whenever their power is derived from the consent of the people. The same power dynamic appears here. The psychology goes like this: 'you may own the club, but that doesn't make you better than me, and I'll demonstrate that by having you perform some menial task at my instruction'. Most of the time people aren't even aware they're doing it. We've all been around folk like that lady. Totally harmless and lovely people, but it's easier just to play their game as Pace did.
You do look into things so deeply, when it’s simple.

Table was filthy, she was complaining to us from when we arrived.

Pace arrived, she ribbed and encouraged to go tell him.

None of us thought she would, she was clearly nervous when she did.

We are clearly embarrassed, some banter pushed her to complain.

Your analysis is completely wrong.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Spiral » Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:01 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:50 pm
You do look into things so deeply, when it’s simple.

Table was filthy, she was complaining to us from when we arrived.

Pace arrived, she ribbed and encouraged to go tell him.

None of us thought she would, she was clearly nervous when she did.

We are clearly embarrassed, some banter pushed her to complain.

Your analysis is completely wrong.
I'm only using her as a demonstrative example of the psychology at work. Both things can coexist - that the table was dirty, and that there was satisfaction in putting Pace to 'work'. Imagine this interaction is with the Queen (yes I know she's dead, but again, a demonstrative example) and not Alan Pace. Now way she's turning around and asking the Queen to get a table cleaned, because in her head (and again, when I say 'her' I don't mean that person specifically, she's just the chosen embodiment of this idea I'm putting across), in her mind there's a clear hierarchy where the Royal family (the popular ones at least) are the 'betters' of 'normal' people, and it's the done thing for 'normal' people to serve, not to instruct, which is why, for example, the protocol exists that you only speak to the monarch when they speak to you. But in the case of Pace, because this power comes effectively from the people and not from coercive force (causing fear) or tradition (causing obedience), you see people reminding the 'democratic Prince' that such a hierarchy does not exist and that they are not above them in a hierarchy. I think when you consider the social-psychology at play, these moments are used to disabuse people in powerful positions of any unearned pretensions.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Spiral » Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:07 pm

BTW I think the reason you might not be willing to give a moment to consider what I've wrote and instead dismiss it as overthinking is perhaps because you feel that, as part of this scene (not the scene as in you're in the doc, but the 'scene' as played out in real life), you feel personally insulted by me in my post, but I swear Lowbank I'm not having a dig at anyone whatsoever. I'm just ruminating on funny behaviours. I don't claim to know what's going on in a person's head, I'm connecting what I see to what I already know about how humans' brains work.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:10 pm

Spiral wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:07 pm
BTW I think the reason you might not be willing to give a moment to consider what I've wrote and instead dismiss it as overthinking is perhaps because you feel that, as part of this scene (not the scene as in you're in the doc, but the 'scene' as played out in real life), you feel personally insulted by me in my post, but I swear Lowbank I'm not having a dig at anyone whatsoever. I'm just ruminating on funny behaviours. I don't claim to know what's going on in a person's head, I'm connecting what I see to what I already know about how humans' brains work.
I often post some very controversial comments which leaves me open to criticism. Justified or not it’s all peoples opinions. In no way do I feel insulted. None of us saw the camera until Pace returned.
Then paperwork had to be signed to allow it to be aired.
It happened, we thought it was funny afterwards.
Poor Jean thought we would not sit with her after the programme, and bless her she had not seen the backlash on social media.

Had it been. Planned event I think she might just change her wording , but it just happened.

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Re: Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

Post by DanH90 » Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:29 pm

If one were to not have sky, where could one partake in watching said episodes of Mission to Burnley? Tried everywhere but no joy!

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