Burnley Town Centre

[jrgbfc]

Not sure you can compare Burnley to places like Skipton and Hebden Bridge.

[Rowls]

You can compare Burnley to these places. How useful the comparison is depends on what you're comparing

Skipton is a classic old market town with a castle and Burnley isn't any of these things. However, Burnley wrecked it's old market place and if it hadn't done this it would be a little more like Skipton.

Skipton isn't blighted by bad architecture. Presumably there was either more resistance to bad architecture or they had better sense not to destroy their heritage. Again, if Burnley had done the same in the 60s and 70s it would be a little more like Skipton.

The reason hebden bridge is doing so well now is because it was largely derelict and empty in the 60s and 70s. The hippies and lesbians moved in to escape the prevailing culture.

They preserved and cared for their architectural and industrial heritage while Burnley tore it's down and put up concrete monstrosities. Thank goodness Burnley council in the 60s weren't responsible for Hebden too!

Burnley could never be entirely like hebden bridge because hebden is smaller town on a through road and Burnley isn't. But if Burnley had done what hebden did and preserved it's culture, it would be a little more like Hebden.

[bfcjg]

Accrington have kept their market and my goodness what a depressing town centre that is.

[JohnMcGreal]

Town centers are now a thing of the past unfortunately.
To try and halt their demise is both costly and foolish.
A huge combination of factors, mainly technology progress, has contributed to every towns troubles.
The reasons for their decline can be discussed and analysed but not reversed.
Large scale demolition of retail streets being replaced by housing villages is the most efficient way of progressing and not wallowing in a decaying past.

Agreed. We have a shortage of houses and struggle to get them built without upsetting someone. Levelling large areas of dead town centres would unlock a lot space for house building, with generous green spaces to boot.

[kentonclaret]

The proposal recently put forward by Michael Gove to convert empty shops into housing will hardly revive the fortunes of our High Streets and Town Centres.
News just recently that Wilko are facing closure with the loss of 12k jobs will be another blow to many Shopping Centres.

[ArnoldBenson]

Out of town centres with easy parking, Amazon in particular, tolerance of organised begging (not the homeless who occupy doorways in an evening and deserve help) and unimaginative councils all contribute to the perceived decline of the High Street. However it is not irreversible. Towns like Skipton, Clitheroe, Kendal etc all have active High Streets attracting locals into town, not just tourists who tend to spend in eateries but not retailers. Yes they have a natural aesthetic advantage, but they play to their strengths where others don't. There are niche suburbs of larger cities that have sprung up with great retail offers by day and an active evening presence. Altrincham almost died on it's backside when the Trafford Centre was developed, but it reinvented itself to appeal to a more discerning clientele than those who want a soulless shopping centre. Blackpool is relocating several hundred office workers from out of town to new purpose built premises in the town centre to generate a greater all year round presence in the town. Whether a rich or poor town it's about an imaginative joined-up approach to giving people a pleasant town centre experience. If we build it they will come.

[Woodleyclaret]

Foa Inchy
Bracknell has got a new town centre makeover
The problem is the locals with more chips than MacDs
It's the attitude capital of Britain and this from someone who worked there till April.However, some of the new shops are shut after 1yr due to extortionate rents and rates from greedy landlords

[No Ney Never]

For who would it be a problem if there was no longer a centre of a town, the old, the middle aged or the young?
Does a town in the future need to go have a centre? If so, why? If not why?
By centre I don't mean the mathematics of cartography, I mean the social hub where everything has to be centred.

[AlargeClaret]

Only tramps , junkies , feral kids ,pensioners and the unemployed have time to go into town centres , hence the plethora of stores to cater their needs .

Big retail multiples destroyed the high street long ago and let’s face it 95% of us have been a party to it . It’s called “ progress” and it’s the way society has moved ( love it or loathe it ) . As for the perennial “ it’s rent and rates and greedy landlords “ moaners , twas ever thus.

[Roger1960]

On line retail takes between 20 & 30% of spending therefore there is just not the demand for as many shops . The surplus space on the edges of the centre needs converting to alternative uses , primarily residential to bring more spending into the centre. Town centre management needs to be far more intrusive and proactive the current argument between the police and council about who enforces the bylaws against begging and drinking needs sorting and then enforcing . Who wants to pass benches of people f ing and Jeff ing out of their heads on stuff on your way to m&s . The town will never compare to clitheroe skipton or hebden they are all much smaller and rely a lot on tourism but even there you will see a lot of empty shops but it’s not as obvious as they don’t tend to have the big stores Burnley has. Out of town retail in Burnley is actually a misnomer as all the units are easily walkable from the centre and Tesco and Sainsbury’s offer the only free parking so help the centre footfall. How pioneer place affects footfall will be interesting to see especially in the evening and if it encourages any more restaurants to come into town. At the end of the day though Burnley has a relatively low average income and the spending that is available is reducing with inflation etc so the centre isn’t going to improve substantially in the foreseeable future

[Foshiznik]

Not sure how you can compare the shopping experience of a approx 70,000 town with that of Hebden Bridge (4,500) and Skipton (14,500). Completely different economies.

[4midable]

Any bit you need amazon deliver next day - even same day
Similar price and saves driving into town trying to find a 40 min space and get soaked thru

Drive to home bargains once a month for essentials and thats it
Rest online

[GetIntoEm]

Can't even go Asda or Tesco without some fake homeless crackhead sat outside. It's a disgrace

Poor people just abuse food banks now so they have more money to spend on drugs and vapes

[ksrclaret]

Can't even go Asda or Tesco without some fake homeless crackhead sat outside. It's a disgrace

Poor people just abuse food banks now so they have more money to spend on drugs and vapes

Could be worse. They could spend their time making stuff up on message boards.

[GetIntoEm]

Is that worse? Strange outlook on the world but fair enough. Each to their own

[Belial]

Any bit you need amazon deliver next day - even same day
Similar price and saves driving into town trying to find a 40 min space and get soaked thru

Drive to home bargains once a month for essentials and thats it
Rest online

There are plenty of local businesses who will deliver as well... Two that I visit or order online depending where I am are A&O Seafood and Coffee Exchange. Amazon is handy when you need something quick but if you want to help out, you can support local guys too

[4midable]

There are plenty of local businesses who will deliver as well... Two that I visit or order online depending where I am are A&O Seafood and Coffee Exchange. Amazon is handy when you need something quick but if you want to help out, you can support local guys too

If you want fish or coffee fair enough
I dont have either and there's nothin id order from a local shop personally.

[evensteadiereddie]

Could be worse. They could spend their time making stuff up on message boards.

That's brilliant.

[Clovius Boofus]

Out-of-town shopping centres are bland, soulless places frequented by the type of person who goes to Ikea to celebrate their wedding anniversaries. Can you imagine getting all giddy at the thought of spending your Sunday in the Trafford Centre? It doesn't bear thinking about.

[claptrappers_union]

Accrington has kept its market, and my goodness, what a depressing town centre that is.

They also build a high Arndale Centre which is now empty apart from WH Smith and they moved the bus station which was located on the market's doorstep.

The traditional town centre needs rethinking. These days they need to be centred around coffee shops, bistros and cafes during the day and options for bars and clubs at nightclubs

Rawrenstall seems to be doing ok.

[Clovius Boofus]

Rawtenstall town centre is tiny in comparison to Burnley. It's a couple of small streets.

Burnley town centre looks positively thriving when compared to Nelson, Accrington or Rochdale. Granted, the antisocial behaviour needs clamping down on, whether it's feral youths, aggressive begging or drunk/drugged-up chavs.

[DanH90]

Saw something on the One Show the other evening about a company/enterprise that had bought 10 empty shops to be given to businesses rent free for 2 years, it allowed small start ups that previously wouldn’t have a chance the opportunity to build a client base without the pressure of rent. Seemed to work.

Also, I think Burnley town centre needs to remarked itself, and try and become a place where people eat out, as opposed to lots of shops and pubs/clubs, that’s just not the market anymore.

[CaptJohn]

Same in nearly every town unfortunately.

Er no. Just got back from centre of Chester. Place is heaving. People everywhere, restaurants booming and pubs full.

[Jambounchained]

Bury is always busy when I go there (usually my go to if I need to go shopping).

They made a really good job of “The Rock”.

[Claretnick]

Er no. Just got back from centre of Chester. Place is heaving. People everywhere, restaurants booming and pubs full.

Filled with day trippers like you no doubt.
How can you fairly compare Chester with Burnley....

[dushanbe]

I’m fairly sure that towns like Chester, Hebden bridge, skipton wouldn’t put up with the amount of abandoned **** tips that abound in Burnley. Boarded up mills, old pubs, derelict buildings generally. Even some that are occupied are a disgrace - Church street is a case in point. There’s an old building that was a hairdressers near the Sparrow hawk, that closed in the late 80s or early 90s. It’s still the same as the day it closed other than it shows 30 odd years of disrepair and it’s one of many. I don’t know what councils can do about these buildings but they are eyesores and there appears to be no will to do anything at all with them

[Swizzlestick]

Er no. Just got back from centre of Chester. Place is heaving. People everywhere, restaurants booming and pubs full.

Chester is a city and a tourist destination, with one of the most popular attractions in the country down the road, slightly unfair comparison.

[Boss Hogg]

The proposal recently put forward by Michael Gove to convert empty shops into housing will hardly revive the fortunes of our High Streets and Town Centres.
News just recently that Wilko are facing closure with the loss of 12k jobs will be another blow to many Shopping Centres.

A crap idea like many from Gove. I can think of shops turned into houses in Halifax and Earby. Does nothing whatsoever for the town centre. Just kills it further and makes the place look dreadful.

[summitclaret]

A number of reasons for this but it might help if business rates were looked at and parking charges removed. Fuel costs and parking charges v ordering online. I agree about adding entertainment so it it’s a hub you want to go to. Anti social behaviour needs dealing with too but there are no police. The last time I drove through Burnley with kids in the car two women were beating the hell out of each other and kicking each other in the headI whilst a group of drunk brain dead men looked on. Hardly enticing.

You might be on to something there. Watching uncaged women fighting, whilst getting ******. Certainly different.

[davideyresleftear]

Slightly off topic but Rawtenstall is a cracking place to visit. Lots of cafes, tons of new pubs and bars, and Foodie Friday on the market is a lot of fun. If Burnley could start a nice pub / restaurant scene it would help

[Guller Bull]

Why has no one started a thread "Barnsley Town Centre" ?

[bfcjg]

Item on BBC breakfast this morning talking about the decline of of the high street and shock horror Burnley wasn't the feature which will no doubt upset the Burnley is dieing brigade. It featured Liverpool and a store that has been turned into an entertainment complex with go karts etc, the aim being to utilise empty space for leisure to get footfall for the remaining shops.

[Clovius Boofus]

I think Gove's idea is bonkers and will further exacerbate the decline in footfall. City centre living, like in Manchester etc, attracts young professionals who are high earners. This will be the opposite for small towns in low income areas. I think it will further ghettoise these town centres.

[Leisure]

Item on BBC breakfast this morning talking about the decline of of the high street and shock horror Burnley wasn't the feature which will no doubt upset the Burnley is dieing brigade. It featured Liverpool and a store that has been turned into an entertainment complex with go karts etc, the aim being to utilise empty space for leisure to get footfall for the remaining shops.

If people think that Burnley is bad, they want to have a look down Accrington Town Centre! They might then have a higher opinion of Burnley.

[Flixtonclaret1]

If people think that Burnley is bad, they want to have a look down Accrington Town Centre! They might then have a higher opinion of Burnley.

It’s full of TY’s charity empire.

[bfcjg]

If people think that Burnley is bad, they want to have a look down Accrington Town Centre! They might then have a higher opinion of Burnley.

I posted earlier that despite the market at Accy still being there it is a depressing town centre.

[NottsClaret]

Why has no one started a thread "Barnsley Town Centre" ?

That would actually be a better comparison. It's a much improved town centre. Big, revamped market, loads of cafes and bars. New shopping centre and cinema. It'll never be Leeds or Sheffield and it's easy to be dismissive but they've done a good job with it.

[Roger1960]

[quote="Guller Bull" post_id=2149425 time=<a href="tel:1691351326">1691351326</a> user_id=821]
Why has no one started a thread "Barnsley Town Centre" ?

That would actually be a better comparison. It's a much improved town centre. Big, revamped market, loads of cafes and bars. New shopping centre and cinema. It'll never be Leeds or Sheffield and it's easy to be dismissive but they've done a good job with it.
[/quote]
Barnsley is a comparable sized town but what’s been done there needs careful consideration. The new shopping centre has been financed by the council borrowing like Burnley bc has done for pioneer place but Barnsley have borrowed £100m to do it and a number of the anchor tenants have just moved over from the adjacent Alhambra centre which is now really struggling so the number of new retailers is limited . Burnley’s retail core needs shrinking down to the main pedestrian areas, encourage more residential conversion, the Keirby is a prime project, also continue with expanding the food and beverage offer together with a much firmer management of antisocial behaviour

[Falcon]

I was in Burnley centre on Saturday and it was packed for the Artisan Market (held 1st Saturday every month) which in turn presumably drives trade for the permanent businesses.

The new Pioneer Place development which has Nandos and Starbucks as well as the highly rated Icaro; the whole thing positioned adjacent to Next and Primark, should hopefully future-proof the centre a bit as well.

Yes most of the shops above are chains, but it's better than a ghost town.

It's not perfect but it's ours.

[colner]

Last year i went to Southport and they have a market hall converted into a place full of eateries and have a big bar in the middle which is open till about 10,i thought that would be an ideal thing for Burnley market. Put all the other stalls in say where the old Argos was and make the market hall as an eating and drinking venue and open till 11

[Croydon Claret]

I wonder if something like BoxPark would work? Always massively popular and the one in Croydon is always featured on any Euros/World Cup game, although you wouldn't take your kids to it on those days .

Wouldn't personally use the one in central Croydon as it's a dump and full of knobs but as a general principle it could work for Burnley

https://www.boxpark.co.uk/

[GetIntoEm]

Last year i went to Southport and they have a market hall converted into a place full of eateries and have a big bar in the middle which is open till about 10,i thought that would be an ideal thing for Burnley market. Put all the other stalls in say where the old Argos was and make the market hall as an eating and drinking venue and open till 11

ive suggested this before on local facebook groups, build on the take aways and cafes that are in there now. "people of Burnley" hated the idea as they wanted somewhere to buy buttons & cotton thread once a year, and "it stinks".

Theres a lot of rose tinted views of Burnley market, its been shite for 20 years. Needs either getting rid of, or repurposing. A market hall isnt what people want these days

[Clovius Boofus]

The Keirby should be demolished. It's ok tarting up bits here and there along the so-called Town 2 Turf route, but it won't add to much when the Keirby is still there. It's never been one of our most aesthetically pleasing buildings in the town, however, today it looks grubby and dilapidated.

If you didn't know any better, you'd think the rest of the town centre was similar. Hardly a welcoming sight to those who don't know the town centre.

[Carlos the Great]

Business rates are charged on commercial property regardless whether it has a tenant or not … unless the tenant is a charity .. so if you own a shop and can’t get a tenant it’s better let the charity shop have it for free … councils are driving away potential businesses with unachievable rates ..and now we have a town full of shops nobody really wants

[ralph8]

It seems like we have more than our fair share of individuals whose behaviour at times could be classed as anti social. I would think the reason for this is the amount of helpful organisations based in the town centre trying to help these people.
I believe more on the periphery of the town are planned- all due to cheap commercial and residential property being picked up by speculators.
Maybe this should be more spread out across all towns including the ones mentioned earlier.
The planning team need to find some way to limit this industry, including houses of multiple occupancy.

[Gerry Hattrick]

Free parking crops up several times as an encouragement to visit a town. As an example,
Boss Hogg wrote:-
“…………………………………Whilst I can afford it I don’t like paying for parking. It’s certainly more attractive to go somewhere with free parking imo.”

But,
Today, Leisure wrote:-
“If people think that Burnley is bad, they want to have a look down Accrington Town Centre! ……………”

Uhmm?
A map of parking areas and cost in Accy town centre:-

[RMutt]

Examples of towns that have turned their centres around seem to be of the more middle class type. Altrincham, Hebden Bridge, Clitheroe etc.
They had less Industrial Revolution buildings to begin with and also the smaller populace that went with not needing huge work forces for the factories.
They have a demographic that can afford bistro eateries and independent shops. I suspect that type of person who lives in Burnley (or any other large post industrial northern town), drives out to said smaller fashionable towns for their leisure time.
Are there any examples of larger post industrial towns that have managed to turn their centres around?

[GetIntoEm]

who cant afford to eat in a bistro or shop in independent shops? bit narrow minded isn't it?

[AfloatinClaret]

Strange one this.
Darlington had a spell about 4 years ago. A lot of big shops closing...

I think Darlo town centre is a lot more depressing than Burnley's but the absolute worst I've seen recently is Bishop Auckland. It even has vape and phone case shops closing down

[Clive 1960]

Er no. Just got back from centre of Chester. Place is heaving. People everywhere, restaurants booming and pubs full.

Chester is a City and as always attracts a lot of visitors from outside the UK because of it's history.