Square pegs in round holes

[Stayingup]

The style at the minute is our defence getting ripped to shreds every game, so I’d hope VK would be open to adapting the much fabled ‘style’.

Today particularly ought to be a big wake up call for VK. And the style we are playing, getting thrashed every game, needs a reappraisal.

[IAmAClaret]

No other team in this league, has their best centre half playing right back, and their best right back playing left back.

Whatever Vinny has achieved previously, this is not the norm. If he proposes the current solution is better, he is wrong, and someone needs to tell him fast.

It's an absolute disservice to both Al-Dakhil and Roberts.

[Burnleyareback2]

I think the Idea that one day he'll manage Man City is looking less likely with each match.

Based on 3 games against teams that will be in the top 6?

[Claretforever]

It was obvious Taylor had to play today. Sure, he’s one dimensional, but he’s good at that and we were never going to be allowed to play higher up the field, so it made sense he played.

To play Roberts at left back and Dakil at right back was a disaster waiting to happen, Dakil had an absolute nightmare of a game, and you could see after 25 mins all he wanted to do was pass back to Trafford. He’ll learn a lot of lessons today, but I’m sure we could have made it easier for ourselves.

FWIW I felt Brownhill played well when he came on and Foster looked really good again. Amdouni played well too. Also, Koleosho is going to be a fine player when he develops.

[jrgbfc]

I didn't see Roberts do anything today that Taylor couldn't have done. Also felt sorry for Al Dakhil, particularly in the second half, felt like he was hung out to dry by Kompany a bit.

[BigGaz]

I think we are struggling to find an identity at the moment. I am not sure what the game plan is. Our slick possession based passing style seems to have gone out of the window.

Spurs pressed up when our GK had the ball and put pressure on our defenders and they were panicky and wasteful in possession. It worked a treat from Spurs point of view.

I feel quite confident in saying that if our back line was Muric, Maatsen, Ekdal, Beyer and Roberts then that wouldn’t have been nearly as effective.

[kentonclaret]

Based on 3 games against teams that will be in the top 6?

Let’s hope VK gets it sorted pretty quickly otherwise we risk making around a dozen teams looking like “top 6”.

[DCWat]

I do get the whole argument that Taylor isn’t right for the system. I’m just not sure that without proper left back options, that we have the personnel to solve the issue.

I think we seriously need to consider utilising Taylor and adapting accordingly. Time for a bit of pragmatism.

At the same time, I’d possibly even consider Cork starting games. He isn’t what he was but his cameo today showed that it’s not all about young legs, it’s about nouse, which Cork has in abundance.

[123EasyasBFC]

3 league games in and already 3 completely different defences.
Vs Man City - roberts al-dakhil O’Shea Beyer Vitinho
Vs Villa - roberts al-dakhil O’Shea delcroix
Vs spurs - al-dakhil O’Shea Beyer roberts
You can’t do that at the top level, one thing we had under dyche for years was a very settled back 4 who all knew their jobs

[DCWat]

3 league games in and already 3 completely different defences.
Vs Man City - roberts al-dakhil O’Shea Beyer Vitinho
Vs Villa - roberts al-dakhil O’Shea delcroix
Vs spurs - al-dakhil O’Shea Beyer roberts
You can’t do that at the top level, one thing we had under dyche for years was a very settled back 4 who all knew their jobs

We’re ripping up the rule book and building from the front.

[123EasyasBFC]

We’re ripping up the rule book and building from the front.

Building what from the Front

[alwaysaclaret]

Taylor doesn’t fit with the style and system he wants to play.

I absolutely get that, but how and why he thinks playing a right back in the left back position fits it any better is absolutely beyond me. And not only that he supplements it by playing a central defender in the right back position and then further down the line puts the same player in midfield, and then people are saying that player has had a mare, I fail to understand why that is all dakhills fault.

[DCWat]

Building what from the Front

To be fair, there are some real promising signs offensively. Finding the balance is the tricky part.

[123EasyasBFC]

To be fair, there are some real promising signs offensively. Finding the balance is the tricky part.

I agree with that but at the minute we are going to have to create 30 chances a game to have a chance to out score other teams

[warksclaret]

Think the International break has come at the right time. This is a challenging time for VK and time to rethink how we move forwards. On a positive- good to have Beyer back, plus Zarourry and Tresor will be available next game, and Foster is starting to be a powerhouse No 9 (a la Antonio of WHU).

Having seen Muric at Forest, and I am not his biggest fan, but he deserves to start next game. On Wednesday with him it was like having an extra defender. He was reading the game well, and he knew where to pass it even before he got the ball. Very important we protect Trafford, and his confidence. He will turn out to be good but at present he is shouldering a lack of confidence across the whole team, and he should not be doing this at his age

Above all we need to support and back our manager in this critical period-he deserves it

[Casper2]

To be fair, there are some real promising signs offensively. Finding the balance is the tricky part.

[DCWat]

Loving the Benny Hill clip, not sure of the point though.

[123EasyasBFC]

No other team in this league, has their best centre half playing right back, and their best right back playing left back.

Whatever Vinny has achieved previously, this is not the norm. If he proposes the current solution is better, he is wrong, and someone needs to tell him fast.

It's an absolute disservice to both Al-Dakhil and Roberts.

No way is al-dakhil our best centre half

[Wembley09]

Jordan Beyer is our best CB!
Guy is class, looked too good for the Championship last season.

He looked tired today when he went off, but no surprise.. our defense had alot of work today.

[bobinho]

Spurs showed today that playing out from the back has its merits, and we all know it does after last season, but what they also showed us is that it shouldn’t be “play out form the back at all costs”. They lumped it when we pressured them in their own box… we persevered with the game plan to our peril. Lose the ball on the half way line and regroup, not in your own box. Today was just bizarre. Utterly bizarre, and I fail to see what was gained from playing Roberts at LB.

[bobinho]

Think the International break has come at the right time. This is a challenging time for VK and time to rethink how we move forwards. On a positive- good to have Beyer back, plus Zarourry and Tresor will be available next game, and Foster is starting to be a powerhouse No 9 (a la Antonio of WHU).

Having seen Muric at Forest, and I am not his biggest fan, but he deserves to start next game. On Wednesday with him it was like having an extra defender. He was reading the game well, and he knew where to pass it even before he got the ball. Very important we protect Trafford, and his confidence. He will turn out to be good but at present he is shouldering a lack of confidence across the whole team, and he should not be doing this at his age

Above all we need to support and back our manager in this critical period-he deserves it

Very important we protect Trafford?

Are you talking to us, or VK?

Whilst I agree our manager needs our support, his decisions will help massively in getting that. The set up today was Garth Crooks-esque in how bizarre it was.

We already have a reset going on due to our success last season…. Resetting by playing players out of position is just mental.

[FeedTheArf]

Today particularly ought to be a big wake up call for VK. And the style we are playing, getting thrashed every game, needs a reappraisal.

Unfortunately I don’t think it will be. I thought Roberts was just about ok at LB which may prolong keeping Taylor out of the team, even if that weakens us at RB.

[bodge]

Beyer went off today as he injured his calf, hopefully that won't be serious and he'll be back in 2 weeks.

It's clear that the shape of the team is wrong, good job it's apparent now as it can be changed and worked on.

We can't expect changes to the results at home unless we set up differently, particularly as the next 2 are United and Chelsea, we simply have to be harder to play through than we have been so far.

[gandhisflipflop]

I've been shocked at how poor we've been. How unfit do we look?! Yes we've played some good teams, some excellent teams. But what we've done to impact the matches has been way below what I was expecting and what's needed. We've been weak, slow, soft, disorganised and ill-disciplined. Other than that, up the Clarets.

Look at the Watford game last season, and then think about the last 3 games. It isn’t something new. I just hope that VK can sort it because I love him to bits as our manager.

[aggi]

Look at the Watford game last season, and then think about the last 3 games. It isn’t something new. I just hope that VK can sort it because I love him to bits as our manager.

We were unlucky to lose against Watford last season. Had some really good chances but things didn't quite fall.

[Gazclaret83]

Exactly

Muric
Roberts, Dakhil, Beyer, Taylor
Anyone, Brownhill, Cullen, Berge, Koleosho
Foster

But Taylor can't play in this system haha absolute joke. The defending today was bad. Playing a right back at left back when we have a perfectly good left back is beyond me.

[JohnMcGreal]

I don't disagree that Taylor needs to come in, simply because he's the only left-back we've got.

But Taylor wasn't deemed good enough to play at left-back for most of last season in a lower league. The fact we're all clamouring for him to start in the top flight just shows how badly we've dropped the ball on that position this summer. We shouldn't have let it get to this.

[TheFamilyCat]

Taylor doesn’t fit with the style and system he wants to play.

The style and system he wants to play has seen us ship 11 goals in 3 games. I'm all for sticking to principles but I'm sure Vinny will see that he needs to make some concessions, be that playing Taylor or other changes.

[FeedTheArf]

Radio Lancashire played an interview with Matt Williams before kick off who said Chelsea only came back on deadline day to make a deal for Maatsen. So my question is, if Maatsen wasn’t available in the lead up to the deadline, why hadn’t we identified another LB who we could move on when Maatsen didn’t want to come??

It seems strange because our strategy ever since VK has come in has seemed to be identifying multiple targets for each position so we don’t get caught in precisely this situation.

[willsclarets]

We put all our eggs in one basket with maatsen. Clearly we had reserved the funds to secure him, and while 31 million was probably not the real fee, it must've been north of 10-15. There has to be several players in europe in that price bracket that would've improved us.

It's left us in a real bind, because there's so much focus on solving that problem. How are we supposed to perform as a team when so much energy is spent compensating for a player we don't have.

Taylor must feel like sh*t too. If Kompany is still managing to keep him motivated he's doing a fine job there, many a player would be phoning it in by now.

[Zenwisdom]

Their midfield was superior to ours Maddison looked class act we need to improve in that department every day school day sure VK under no illusion

[Jakubclaret]

We put all our eggs in one basket with maatsen. Clearly we had reserved the funds to secure him, and while 31 million was probably not the real fee, it must've been north of 10-15. There has to be several players in europe in that price bracket that would've improved us.

It's left us in a real bind, because there's so much focus on solving that problem. How are we supposed to perform as a team when so much energy is spent compensating for a player we don't have.

Taylor must feel like sh*t too. If Kompany is still managing to keep him motivated he's doing a fine job there, many a player would be phoning it in by now.

He's under contract & being paid handsomely that aside taylor is far too professional to be making noises & causing trouble that's the last thing he'd want to be doing is upsetting the manager, Taylor is being clever just work hard in training & bide your time & I'm pretty sure he'll feature at some point, it's a long hard season with the games at times coming thick & fast & injuries/suspensions that are bound to mount up.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

We put all our eggs in one basket with maatsen. Clearly we had reserved the funds to secure him, and while 31 million was probably not the real fee, it must've been north of 10-15. There has to be several players in europe in that price bracket that would've improved us.

It's left us in a real bind, because there's so much focus on solving that problem. How are we supposed to perform as a team when so much energy is spent compensating for a player we don't have.

Taylor must feel like sh*t too. If Kompany is still managing to keep him motivated he's doing a fine job there, many a player would be phoning it in by now.

£31 million was the fee we bid and that was accepted
It included add-ons yes, but that’s what we offered

[Stayingup]

A couple of things. Our press is very high and we are getting caught with ball over the top. As for the full back situation, it needs to resolved. Beyer didn't look fit and he and O'Shea looked like strangers at time. They will form a decent partnership. Have they played a full game together before yesterday? Midfield needs three, including Brownhill. As for the rest up front they are doing well and will improve.

[Swizzlestick]

Radio Lancashire played an interview with Matt Williams before kick off who said Chelsea only came back on deadline day to make a deal for Maatsen. So my question is, if Maatsen wasn’t available in the lead up to the deadline, why hadn’t we identified another LB who we could move on when Maatsen didn’t want to come??

It seems strange because our strategy ever since VK has come in has seemed to be identifying multiple targets for each position so we don’t get caught in precisely this situation.

Didn’t we also try for Hartmann and I’m sure Sacha said we’d bid for a Belgian left back? Sometimes these things happen and perhaps parameters changed last minute.

[CrosspoolClarets]

For all this mention of square pegs, fair enough, but it wasn’t unfamiliarity with being a fullback on the left that led to Roberts at 0-1 pressing their defence at what looks like 30 yards from the Spurs goal (seconds before we were caught 2 vs 2 and it was 1-1, ending our early brief dominance). In that moment Beyer was at left back, 10 yards inside their half, just as Porro pounded it over the top to Son who was in his own half.

That is tactical suicide. We could have Stones and Dias at CB and they would struggle in that moment. Nothing to do with square pegs although that wasn’t great.

[turbo5]

Whether it's work related , football or any team event you don't change the entire team all at once and expect it to perform like an established team.
I appreciate we need to step up a level in this league and some of the players needed upgrading , we also need to give game time to the new signings who are chomping at the bit to start. (expectation, contracts, need to bed into the team)
Classic boiled frog, either put it in the boiling water or gradually turn up the heat.

Without going into details I walked past the entire team yesterday morning whilst taking the dog for walk . It didnt look like a team to me ! (you can spot team dynamics amongst a group of people) Nobody talking to each other, one or two wearing ear pods . Browny and Jay Rod were the only ones who actually looked like they were enjoying the beautiful walk-on a sunny morning. Also no Kompany.
I get some might be doing their own thing and focusing on the game ahead but I haven't seen so many sad looking faces since kids starting at a new school after a 6 week holiday. It was as though they didnt know anybody in the team It might be nothing but that was the impression I got.

[dougcollins]

In the Villa game, Roberts was all over the pitch, but never in a position to perform his day job.

[FeedTheArf]

I think if we’re going to persist with keeping Taylor out of the team, we’d look better if we just swapped Al-Dakhil and O’Shea. Beyer and Al-Dakhil will have a better understanding from last season and O’Shea has at least played right back in the past.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Might as well have got shut of Taylor in the transfer window because if Kompany is going to play a right back at left back instead of him then he’s never going to get a game.

He must start the next game for me.

[summitclaret]

Radio Lancashire played an interview with Matt Williams before kick off who said Chelsea only came back on deadline day to make a deal for Maatsen. So my question is, if Maatsen wasn’t available in the lead up to the deadline, why hadn’t we identified another LB who we could move on when Maatsen didn’t want to come??

It seems strange because our strategy ever since VK has come in has seemed to be identifying multiple targets for each position so we don’t get caught in precisely this situation.

Wow. That is far more worrying. VK clearly didn't see the need for a left back other than Maatsen.

Also, when he brought on Delcriox on I thought would have gone to left back an Roberts to right with Al Dakhil back to cb. No he kept up the madness. I hope Al Dakhil has the mental strength to get over such a mauling.

[jojomk1]

I'm not disagreeing that Taylor could not play in the system we used last season
But apart from Maatsen neither can anyone else
One key indicator of any good manager (business or sport) is to get the best out of his/her team by utilising their strengths and identifying their weaknesses with a plan to improve them
Taylor is a more than adequate LB in a back four which, in turn, plays to the strengths of the others such as Roberts at RB (where again we have no natural replacement) and Dakhil at CB
I actually thought O'Shea had been brought in as back up to Roberts as he had previously played some games at RB for West Brom
VK needs to take the blinkers off and realise that, at this moment in time (and now up until Jan), we do not have a left sided defender to play to last season's formation
As for CM, many identified this was another potential weak area and whilst Berge has some attributes he, and the others, are not able to impose themselves in a midfield battle due to a lack of strength and pace especially if playing just as a two
I had posted on another thread some time back that it was possible, given the teams we were due to face, that we could maybe not have a point until the end of October
Persisting with this formation, playing people out of position does not fill me with much confidence
But it can change, if VK does so

[pauliopaulio]

Absolutely nothing to do with Trafford.

I don’t have the same agenda as some but their 4th was directly to do with Trafford. A poor lofted ball out to Al-Dakhil that he decided to try to jump and chest instead of letting it go out of play. They picked up the 2nd ball and then it ended up with Madison who curled it in.

[CaptainKirk]

I think we are struggling to find an identity at the moment. I am not sure what the game plan is. Our slick possession based passing style seems to have gone out of the window.

Spurs pressed up when our GK had the ball and put pressure on our defenders and they were panicky and wasteful in possession. It worked a treat from Spurs point of view.

I feel quite confident in saying that if our back line was Muric, Maatsen, Ekdal, Beyer and Roberts then that wouldn’t have been nearly as effective.

I feel confident in saying that if our back line was Schmeical Irwin Pallister Bruce Neville it wouldn't have been nearly as effective, but they weren't available. Neither were Maatsen and Ekdal.
With you on the other 3 though.

[alwaysaclaret]

The style and system he wants to play has seen us ship 11 goals in 3 games. I'm all for sticking to principles but I'm sure Vinny will see that he needs to make some concessions, be that playing Taylor or other changes.

Maybe he'll play Al dakhill up top next game, played him everywhere else, and then may be he'll become the fall guy and he'll decide he's not good enough and bring Taylor back.

[ŽižkovClaret]

This. We are nothing more than a glorified shop window.

You could argue the same for Brighton. It aint bad as long as you get the balance right

[Colburn_Claret]

Obviously short in areas, due to injuries, and a lack of seeing the bigger picture, not using CT, but the biggest problem is tinkering.
Imo Delcroix will be fine at LB, but he should have been left there to grow into it. If the plan is to play him in the middle and Beyer on the left, then do it. We are struggling to integrate new players into the system, against far superior battle hardened teams. We don't help ourselves changing the back line every 45 mins. Everyone can see why we do it, I just don't think it helps.

[Dassey]

Wasn't sure where everyone was supposed to be playing at the back. One minute bayer was left back, dakhil was right back, decroix appeared st centre back or left back? Roberts appeared at right back, wandered off, appeared at left back, only consistant position was oshea at CB. It looked a right mish mash of a set up to be honest. Just hope vk was using these free hits to do a bit if experimenting. I think 3 of our next 4 games are likely to be similar looking at the teams we are facing. Then its catch up time hopefully.

[Dassey]

Wasn't sure where everyone was supposed to be playing at the back. One minute bayer was left back, dakhil was right back, decroix appeared st centre back or left back? Roberts appeared at right back, wandered off, appeared at left back, only consistant position was oshea at CB. It looked a right mish mash of a set up to be honest. Just hope vk was using these free hits to do a bit if experimenting. I think 3 of our next 4 games are likely to be similar looking at the teams we are facing. Then its catch up time hopefully.

[Dassey]

I think the idea playing a left footer on right side and visa versa is to try and send the opposing winger inside towards the more crowded area, likewise to play the ball into mf rather than launch the ball into the wide channels which is Charlie Taylors game. Unfortunately at this level the opposing team spots this as soon as they see your line up or change in play. This is not championship football anymore and you've got to have a plan B C D which we don't seem to have at present.