Amdouni

[CoolClaret]

There was a real connection built between team and fans last season though, special moments shared.

When the majority of them aren’t then playing in your opening three fixtures for a team that doesn’t look any better then the sort of ‘feel good factor’ is of course gone and it also makes supporters question things.

I’m not so sure the PL is a place that you experiment with a very inexperienced young team and expect them to magically get it right by gameweek 10.

The team that have played in the league feels very Watford to me right now - who are our lads putting themselves on the line/running into the ground?

Desperately missing characters like Brownhill and Barnes (not a dig on Foster at all who has been brilliant, but more on field generals).

[RVclaret]

The team that have played in the league feels very Watford to me right now - who are our lads putting themselves on the line/running into the ground?

Well done on finding another thread to say the exact same thing

Interestingly we are top of the ‘distance covered by km’ table by a decent margin, as well as most regains won in the oppositions half, suggests the work rate is definitely there.

[CoolClaret]

Well done on finding another thread to say the exact same thing

Interestingly we are top of the ‘distance covered by km’ table by a decent margin, as well as most regains won in the oppositions half, suggests the work rate is definitely there.

If people post their comments saying the same thing of everything’s fine and dandy when there’s no signs of that (at least imo) then I’ll reply

Saw that stat by the way - might be because we’re also on half way line and find ourselves running back to our own goal constantly. It’s of course good to have good running stats yes but there’s also a balance between running like headless chickens and holding shape - one of the reasons we’re all over the place at the moment is because we’re a bit too gung ho on that front and leaving massive gaps.

You’d hope that we were pinching the ball a bit in the oppositions half if we were effectively sticking 7/8 players there in possession as well!

Who would you say has been really getting stuck in would you say? Koleosho has been battling - defence looks so, so timid though - no grit!

[Anthonini]

If people post their comments saying the same thing of everything’s fine and dandy when there’s no signs of that (at least imo) then I’ll reply

Saw that stat by the way - might be because we’re also on half way line and find ourselves running back to our own goal constantly. It’s of course good to have good running stats yes but there’s also a balance between running like headless chickens and holding shape - one of the reasons we’re all over the place at the moment is because we’re a bit too gung ho on that front and leaving massive gaps.

You’d hope that we were pinching the ball a bit in the oppositions half if we were effectively sticking 7/8 players there in possession as well!

Who would you say has been really getting stuck in would you say? Koleosho has been battling - defence looks so, so timid though - no grit!

You're actually twisting our good stats as a motivated hard working team into running around like headless chickens leaving massive gaps to cover. Hard to read tbh.

[CoolClaret]

You're actually twisting our good stats as a motivated hard working team into running around like headless chickens leaving massive gaps to cover. Hard to read tbh.

Conspiracy theorist posting ‘hard to read’, irony anyone?

They are a bit headless chicken at the mo, I’m sure that will get sorted but yeah overtly pressing/committing (especially if done with poor coordination between players) is exactly how you can get countered.

I just think clutching onto straws like ‘covering the most distance per 90’ after being comprehensively beaten is a bit copium.

Maybe holding shape a bit more and being less gung ho (and therefore lower running stats) would be better for our defensive structure?

[Anthonini]

Conspiracy theorist posting ‘hard to read’, irony anyone?

They are a bit headless chicken at the mo, I’m sure that will get sorted but yeah overtly pressing/committing (especially if done with poor coordination between players) is exactly how you can get countered.

I just think clutching onto straws like ‘covering the most distance per 90’ after being comprehensively beaten is a bit copium.

Maybe holding shape a bit more and being less gung ho (and therefore lower running stats) would be better for our defensive structure?

Bless you

[boatshed bill]

There was a real connection built between team and fans last season though, special moments shared.

That's because we were winning.

[Spindles]

I can see why the fans are feeling nervous, the sea change in the performances on the pitch and the abject defending at times mean we found ourselves capitulating in 12 minutes on Saturday. Is it any wonder some of the fans left after that?
For my part I thought amdouni was not particularly good on Saturday and he should have been replaced by Brownhill instead of berge.

[ArmchairDetective]

The lad clearly has something and will come good. As will many others in this team. And I don't believe it will come too late for survival this season either.

[superdimitri]

It took him some time to come good for his last team. As the FC Basel supporter said when he came here to post, give him time.

[Anthonini]

When he starts finishing those great runs he makes passing defenders as if they weren't there, we'll be glad we gave this guy the confidence.

I also considered taking him out for a real playmaker but I have the feeling Amdouni could become our best player. He reminds me a bit of Salah or Agüero. Wouldn't make sense benching him. He saved us against Nottingham already. Pretty sure the level of opponents we faced were just too high too soon for many of the players.

Especially in our next games I don't think we have anything to be scared about. Arsenal Brighton and Liverpool will probably whip our butts but the rest we can try to win.

We face some decent opponents like Chelsea and Manchester United but we should just play out own way putting them under pressure and hopefully be more efficient. I do see us stealing some points from them. They aren't performing that well at the moment. If Nottingham can make it hard on them so can we.

So no reason to start playing with 9 defenders now. Just keep going and get better. Tresor and Zaroury will make us alot stronger.

[RVclaret]

Starting as the central striker for Switzerland v Muric’s Kosovo shortly.

Didn’t realise he’s the second top scorer in the Euro qualifiers.

[NewClaret]

Didn’t realise he’s the second top scorer in the Euro qualifiers.

[Spiral]

Starting as the central striker for Switzerland v Muric’s Kosovo shortly.

Didn’t realise he’s the second top scorer in the Euro qualifiers.

Scott McTominay joint top WTF?

[NewClaret]

Anyone watch the match? How did Zeki & Aro do.

Meant to watch it but something came up

[aggi]

The same issue today.

Thought based on individual performances today he was one of our better players, played a bit deeper and was pretty involved.

But we had no control of the midfield with the four attacking players and Berge was trying to play in the same area, just not sure how our shape works with him playing.

[CoolClaret]

The same issue today.

Thought based on individual performances today he was one of our better players, played a bit deeper and was pretty involved.

But we had no control of the midfield with the four attacking players and Berge was trying to play in the same area, just not sure how our shape works with him playing.

This might sound mad but I was thinking that maybe we could play him as a false 9 again like we did against City and have Foster giving that inbehind threat coming from wide on the right like Tella did last season - with one of Zaroury/Koleosho hugging the touchline on the left.

Would also allow Berge to roam out wide right when Foster drifts in, if part of a three man midfield.

[KRBFC]

He’s a 10 and too good not to play, we need to build a strong base behind him that allows him the freedom to roam forward and one that is going to play simple and just give him the ball.

Now who are our options for 2 sitters behind?

Berge - can’t defend
Massengo - I don’t recall ever seeing him play
Brownhill - headless chicken, wanders from position and leaves gaps, poor on the ball.
Cullen - struggled this season but looks our best bet to fill one of the 2 because it’s his natural game.
Cork - hasn’t been a regular for ages

Is Massengo good enough? If not it has to be Cork and Cullen sat infront of the back four AT ALL TIMES. Pass to Zeki, simple nothing fancy.

We cannot gain a foothold in games to provide a platform to feed the really talented forwards often enough.

It doesn’t help the two full backs have been absolutely awful this season, both look way off it. Roberts is really struggling again.

[Woodleyclaret]

Charlie Taylor had another good game and is having a good season.We are missing Beyer and Ekdal at cb.Berge is not a combatative cm but can play as a 10 as he showed well at Luton.We need a ball wining cm and Jack Cork is our only option

[RVclaret]

The same issue today.

Thought based on individual performances today he was one of our better players, played a bit deeper and was pretty involved.

But we had no control of the midfield with the four attacking players and Berge was trying to play in the same area, just not sure how our shape works with him playing.

I’ve posted this elsewhere but will do so again seen as it serves a purpose.

Our 4-3-3 shape, playing Amdouni and Berge as 8s/10s alongside Cullen who is the single pivot is ‘fine’ in a sense (Brentford played this shape too) but i completely agree that, because we’ve got 4 attacking minded players there infront of Cullen, there’s no battling / defensive nous/ basic ball winning happening.

For what it’s worth I think Amdouni is a real talent (2nd top scorer in Euro qualifiers) and looked great at Forest (was this because we started Brownhill in CM and JBG at RM). I personally think JBG has been quite a big miss ever since he went off v United.

[123EasyasBFC]

Amdouni came off the bench on Sunday for Swiss as a number 9, I thought the role he played against Luton coming in from the left is where he’s actually looked his best

[aggi]

Although we've changed our shape since the first post, with Berge playing deeper, I'm still not convinced by Amdouni.

He has the occasional flash but seems to be in and out of games. He's not picking up the second balls, he's not hugely involved in our passing mines and he's not getting into the box and scoring. To me, he just doesn't seem to impact the game enough.

It may just be that he needs more time but I think a fair bit of it is tactical as well as his ability. Compared to some of the other players who have played a lot of games I don't think we've seen the same improvement.

[Enola Gay]

He's looking to me like a luxury player we can't afford.

He’s a skillful player and he invariably has a couple of moments in each game that get you (at least inwardly) applauding.

But there aren't enough of those moments and they invariably don’t add up to a full performance. I’m struggling to think of a game where I’ve come off at the end thinking he was our main man, he'd run that game for us, he grabbed that game by the scruff of the neck.

That odd moment here or there isn’t enough for me, and I’d give Berge a run in that advanced role with Cullen/Massengo/ANOther alongside Brownhill behind him. Might make us more solid in front of the defence and it's mean Berge wasn't tripping over someone playing in the same bit of the pitch.

[RVclaret]

Although we've changed our shape since the first post, with Berge playing deeper, I'm still not convinced by Amdouni.

He has the occasional flash but seems to be in and out of games. He's not picking up the second balls, he's not hugely involved in our passing mines and he's not getting into the box and scoring. To me, he just doesn't seem to impact the game enough.

It may just be that he needs more time but I think a fair bit of it is tactical as well as his ability. Compared to some of the other players who have played a lot of games I don't think we've seen the same improvement.

Quite a contrast to the manager naming him as ‘our best player’ last night!

I think he’s playing fine but is a bit of a nearly man at the moment. Bit of incredible skill like the turn on the half way line v Liverpool to take out 3 players, but then blasts the shot wide, and a lovely one two with Zaroury last night, excellent movement then doesn’t control the finish).

Disagree that he’s not involved in our passing combos, I see him as key part in most of our best moves. Feel like there’s a lot more to come from him yet and hopefully with some of the lower teams coming up at home we’ll see more.

[ksrclaret]

If he doesn’t properly influence the Luton game, I’d take him out of the team for a while for an extra midfielder in a 4231 shape (not the 433 from earlier in the season).

It’s absolutely true to say that he’s not impacting games anywhere near enough.

[SalisburyClaret]

We can’t afford to get relegated while we wait for him to find his best form
The same goes for Tresor and Ramsey

[ClaretPete001]

If he doesn’t properly influence the Luton game, I’d take him out of the team for a while for an extra midfielder in a 4231 shape (not the 433 from earlier in the season).

It’s absolutely true to say that he’s not impacting games anywhere near enough.

If Foster is fit. So would I.....

[Hipper]

Funny. I started reading this thread thinking 'yes, yes, I agree with that' and then realised that it was started in September after three matches. Yet here we are talking about him in exactly the same way.

He does not seem to have progressed whereas others have.

I would like to see Brun Larson given a go in the second striker type role, or of course the fabled Obafemi.

[Elizabeth]

A big disappointment. No composure when needed. How much longer do we have to wait for him to show he is up to the PL?
I would sum him up as ' Flatters to Deceive'

[Newcastleclaret93]

I got slated on the match thread for it yesterday, but I agree with a lot of the posts above.

He’s just not effective enough, shows some real flashes of talent but rarely ever backs it up with a finished product.

I would give Tresor a go in the advanced role, or potentially even Brownhill.

[Holtyclaret]

There was a real connection built between team and fans last season though, special moments shared.

When the majority of them aren’t then playing in your opening three fixtures for a team that doesn’t look any better then the sort of ‘feel good factor’ is of course gone and it also makes supporters question things.

I’m not so sure the PL is a place that you experiment with a very inexperienced young team and expect them to magically get it right by gameweek 10.

The team that have played in the league feels very Watford to me right now - who are our lads putting themselves on the line/running into the ground?

Desperately missing characters like Brownhill and Barnes (not a dig on Foster at all who has been brilliant, but more on field generals).

Take it you weren’t at Villa park?

The connection between vk, the team and away support is very much there and the team ran themselves into the ground.

[CoolClaret]

Take it you weren’t at Villa park?

The connection between vk, the team and away support is very much there and the team ran themselves into the ground.

That was posted on the 8th of September mate - recently said that it's finally started to come together but it's leaving us with an awful lot to do.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Funny. I started reading this thread thinking 'yes, yes, I agree with that' and then realised that it was started in September after three matches. Yet here we are talking about him in exactly the same way.

He does not seem to have progressed whereas others have.

I would like to see Brun Larson given a go in the second striker type role, or of course the fabled Obafemi.

Amdouni is a passenger we can’t afford to be playing. As for Larson christ his effort up front last night was enough to suggest we should never have to witness it again he’s powder puff.

[Holtyclaret]

That was posted on the 8th of September mate - recently said that it's finally started to come together but it's leaving us with an awful lot to do.

Why I was surprised you’d said it, sorry should have noticed the date

[Quickenthetempo]

Funny. I started reading this thread thinking 'yes, yes, I agree with that' and then realised that it was started in September after three matches. Yet here we are talking about him in exactly the same way.

He does not seem to have progressed whereas others have.

I would like to see Brun Larson given a go in the second striker type role, or of course the fabled Obafemi.

Which players would you put in the 'progressed' category?

[dougcollins]

I reckon if you're looking at Tresor as an upgrade to Amdouni you're going to be disappointed.

Possibly the only one in the team with less off the ball effort than Amdouni.

[MT03ALG]

Amdouni has been really unlucky in front of goal and could easily be in double figures by now. He should learn from his mistakes.

[aggi]

Which players would you put in the 'progressed' category?

Personally I'd say that Foster, O'Shea, Odobert, Koleosho, Berge and Trafford have all noticeably improved.

[Hipper]

Personally I'd say that Foster, O'Shea, Odobert, Koleosho, Berge and Trafford have all noticeably improved.

I'd agree mostly with that. Not sure on Koleosho as he was good to start with but I don't think got better - no real end product. Odobert the same.

I'd add Delacroix, based only on Friday.

Unfortunately there are too many that haven't and as they form a large part of the team...... Maybe they will. After all it's taken three years for Watkins and Bowen to come really good but then Che Adams and Maupay never have.

[Quickenthetempo]

Personally I'd say that Foster, O'Shea, Odobert, Koleosho, Berge and Trafford have all noticeably improved.

Foster has improved on last season defo, but he was very good at the start of this season. Which I think we're judging?
O shea improving defensively, but not with the ball.
Odebart and Koleosho have been very good in flashes all season.
Berge is hard to judge as he certainly hasn't hit the heights he had at Sheffield United but he started slow and is now doing alright, barring Villa.
Trafford has certainly improved, a long way to go until he's prem standard though.

[wbfc]

I think a lot of the players would be okay as bit part players in established Premier league teams ...together they have only won 3 games

Personally I think we bought very badly... I have said previously the goalkeeper at Luton bought from Rovers would have been an upgrade on our goalkeeper for only a few million he is very steady

Tressor, Odobert and Koleosho...I think we could have done without Tressor

I would have kept Townsend and not signed Redmond ...

I do not mind Berge but I do not think he is anything better than championship bottom end premier league only ..

Ramsay the jury is out..I see bits but long way to go

Then I think we should have bought an additional striker with some physicality and left and right back

I wanted them to Beyer...but he has been a bit weak in this league...oshea I knew he was not a world beater but he has played better later

I think it is just an incredibly strong league and it shows what a good job Dyche did admittedly not playing the kind of football I like

I am sure we will be relegated I was of that opinion after Villa and Spurs home defeats

I think VK is incredibly lucky not to have been sacked ..it is rubbish talk about projects ...kids talk on football manager ...it is 3 points on a Saturday which is important...but I would give him the first 15 matches of next season

He talks sense and I am not saying he cannot bring it all back together in a lower standard of football

[JohnDearyMe]

Amdouni reminds me of Fletcher when he was signed for the Coyle Premier League season. A good technical and skillful player but missed too many important chances

[Hipper]

I think VK is incredibly lucky not to have been sacked ..it is rubbish talk about projects ...kids talk on football manager ...it is 3 points on a Saturday which is important...but I would give him the first 15 matches of next season

It depends on what his understandings with Pace and the board are. It's possible they are not concerned about relegation and have some bigger picture in mind. Pace and his entourage after all are here to make money. Us mere fans wouldn't understand that as all we want is for the team to do the best it can. We're now in The Premier League and we don't want to be relegated.

[elwaclaret]

All that is missing from Amdouni as far as I’m concerned is a settled partnership and a bit of confidence. I expect him to hit a purple patch in front of goal in the not too distant future

[Ric_C]

Amdouni is basically our Tella replacement. Doesn't fit into a set position and floats around the front line. I've not seen anything yet that going with him over Tella was a sound decision. At least with Tella, when he was having an off day, he wound up the opposition a bit and was pretty lethal in front of goal.

Not saying he's a bad signing, but as others have said, he's a luxury player who also misses a lot of chances.

[elwaclaret]

Amdouni is basically our Tella replacement. Doesn't fit into a set position and floats around the front line. I've not seen anything yet that going with him over Tella was a sound decision. At least with Tella, when he was having an off day, he wound up the opposition a bit and was pretty lethal in front of goal.

Not saying he's a bad signing, but as others have said, he's a luxury player who also misses a lot of chances.

Tella was excellent playing against a high line. There are not many teams in the Premier that rely on playing a high line. I liked Tella A lot, but they are not like for like comparisons… and despite such an outstanding season last year the queue for Tella in the summer was not that long…

I would have liked Tella to stay but I’m not convinced he would have set the Premier League on fire.

[ClaretPete001]

I think you have to differentiate between a player improving and the performance of the player improving.

All the player's performances improved when we changed to a 4-4-2 because it wasn't the 4-3-3 we started with and the manager re-introduced some of the senior players like Brownhill and Taylor.

I think a number of player's performances have improved but I think it's a bit of a stretch to claim that a 25 year old seasoned pro highly rated by Sheffield United has improved since the summer or those who have played barely more than a handful of games for the club.

[aggi]

I think you have to differentiate between a player improving and the performance of the player improving.

All the player's performances improved when we changed to a 4-4-2 because it wasn't the 4-3-3 we started with and the manager re-introduced some of the senior players like Brownhill and Taylor.

I think a number of player's performances have improved but I think it's a bit of a stretch to claim that a 25 year old seasoned pro highly rated by Sheffield United has improved since the summer or those who have played barely more than a handful of games for the club.

I'd certainly agree that some of the improvements are down to a change in system. But if that change in system hasn't benefitted Amdiuni (as it did Berge for instance) then should he still be starting every week?

[ClaretPete001]

I'd certainly agree that some of the improvements are down to a change in system. But if that change in system hasn't benefitted Amdiuni (as it did Berge for instance) then should he still be starting every week?

No, I would be tempted to try Jay Rod and Foster or go to a 4-2-3-1 with an extra centre-mid and just Foster up front.

I just wonder whether we have enough in midfield with a 4-4-2 to pick up points against teams like Everton who have a midfield 3 and Palace who play a low block. And I'm just not sure Amdouni does enough to warrant a 3 in 19 return.

[CoolClaret]

Tella was excellent playing against a high line. There are not many teams in the Premier that rely on playing a high line. I liked Tella A lot, but they are not like for like comparisons… and despite such an outstanding season last year the queue for Tella in the summer was not that long…

I would have liked Tella to stay but I’m not convinced he would have set the Premier League on fire.

Played against a lot more teams that play with a higher line than we did in the Championship!

Certainly wouldn’t have set the league on fire (not many do) but would have been vital to have his energy/pressing ability and pace in that right wing spot and would have helped us not having the pitch so congested at times - other teams would at least have to account for his threat.

A front three of Odobert-Foster-Tella would be bloody good for us. Proper modern day front three that. Pace, tenacity and ability.