That s exactly why I hate the prem.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:39 pm

Handball for them in the build up and our second is obviously a handball when it does not even touch his arm.

Then a crazy red card. There would be hundreds of reds if that’s the line being drawn.

Hate this league.

Claret Alfie · Post by **Claret Alfie** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:43 pm

: IMG_1178.jpeg (709.58 KiB) Viewed 6127 times

: IMG_1178.jpeg (709.58 KiB) Viewed 6127 times

That can’t stand and ours be disallowed.

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:44 pm

First match I've watched this season and it's enough I think

I don't need to see us winning or dominating every week, I can even forgive inept refs...

But when crooked egotistical refs and dodgy var decisions are trying to give a Netflix style edge to having an effect on every game, I can't be doing with it.

Lip · Post by **Lip** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:47 pm

I'm tending to agree with Tarks ears..We was robbed

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:48 pm

Remember when people, including posters on here, said VAR would put an end to controversial decisions? And the smaller clubs would benefit from these corrupt officials who favour the bigger teams?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:49 pm

there guy didn't handle the ball, ours did. Do you not get replays in the UK anymore ?

harpers_perm · Post by **harpers_perm** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:53 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:49 pm
there guy didn't handle the ball, ours did. Do you not get replays in the UK anymore ?

Do you not have spectacles in the US anymore?

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:55 pm

Worst part of being class in the Championship is having to play in the Premier League the season after.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:55 pm

tarkys_ears wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:44 pm
First match I've watched this season and it's enough I think

I don't need to see us winning or dominating every week, I can even forgive inept refs...

But when crooked egotistical refs and dodgy var decisions are trying to give a Netflix style edge to having an effect on every game, I can't be doing with it.

Brilliant post.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:55 pm

harpers_perm wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:53 pm
Do you not have spectacles in the US anymore?

the ball didn't touch the forest player
the ball certainly touched Berge's arm

Doesn't mean it was deliberate though

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:56 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:49 pm
there guy didn't handle the ball, ours did. Do you not get replays in the UK anymore ?

Berges arm does not touch the ball, and even if it did it was not deliberate, which it needs to be.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:56 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:55 pm
the ball didn't touch the forest player
the ball certainly touched Berge's arm

Doesn't mean it was deliberate though

It was not so goal should have stood.

Nori1958 · Post by **Nori1958** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:57 pm

I said on a thread last week, refs should not be led by var, make their own mind up having seen it again, apparantly var were shouting it's deliberate handball in the refs ear before he even gets to the screen.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:57 pm

I feel sick tonight.

I’m done with it and I will welcome the chance to return to a fairer league. If VAR ends up down there I’m out altogether.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:58 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:56 pm
Berges arm does not touch the ball, and even if it did it was not deliberate, which it needs to be.

it very very clearly does

scrambledclaret · Post by **scrambledclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:58 pm

I don't usually rant and rave but we were robbed tonight, should have been finished two nil, or two one, and I struggle to see how VAR made that game better in any way. Foster was foolish, and that's going to hurt us, but even that was soft. The two handball decisions were bizarre.

Acting Claret · Post by **Acting Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:58 pm

Berge makes to control the ball with his arm but there is no evidence it actually touched him. Don’t think the Forest player touched it either.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:02 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:58 pm
it very very clearly does

No it does not. And that means you cannot give it. It’s not clear and obvious.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:03 pm

The money men/corporate overlords and tinkerers have ruined our beautiful game.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:03 pm

Probably need to see it again but from one of the replay angles from behind Berge you can see his bicep wiggle a bit at the moment of the handball. Hate VAR to death but I think the three decisions, the Forest handball shout, the Berge handball and Foster's elbow, were all right. Still want VAR binned though.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:04 pm

If ours was ruled out, why wasn’t theirs?

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:04 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:03 pm
The money men/corporate overlords and tinkerers have ruined our beautiful game.

It’s a dirty business nowadays. Stinks to high heaven.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:04 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:02 pm
No it does not. And that means you cannot give it. It’s not clear and obvious.

I genuinely can't debate something with someone who says the ball doesn't hit his arm when the ball clearly deviates. It's laughable to suggest it doesn't. Doesn't mean it's handball though.

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:06 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:58 pm
it very very clearly does

It very very clearly doesn’t. Arm pit maybe but not arm

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:06 pm

Berge's arm was actually moving away from the ball, shocking decision.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:06 pm

Not one Forest player when you watch it back appealed for handball which says it all.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:07 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:04 pm
It’s a dirty business nowadays. Stinks to high heaven.

I’m going off a bit now and very annoyed at yet another horrific decision against us in this league but this is why I’m so opposed to commercial interest/initiatives and schemes.

Put on this big front and charade about improving the world and they’re rinsing it and everything good about it for pure profit.

Well and truly ticked off.

Casper2 · Post by **Casper2** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:08 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:58 pm
it very very clearly does

No it doesn’t, you’re posting rubbish

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:09 pm

What's VAR for?

clear and obvious errors?

Yep, that's what we saw tonight

kenyon6923 · Post by **kenyon6923** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:09 pm

At least we are off the bottom

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:10 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:04 pm
I genuinely can't debate something with someone who says the ball doesn't hit his arm when the ball clearly deviates. It's laughable to suggest it doesn't. Doesn't mean it's handball though.

So you’re saying he clearly and deliberately hand ball it. That’s the rule.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:11 pm

bf2k wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:06 pm
It very very clearly doesn’t. Arm pit maybe but not arm

that's just not accurate.

Funnily enough, and until we can post a replay it's hard to really show it but I think just as big a question is why they rule the goal out for handball and completely ignore McKenna pulling back Berge in the first place - it could easily have been a penalty

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:13 pm

The officials did everything they could to hand 3 points to Forest on a solid silver platter. Even played 99 minutes. Sickening. An absolute disgrace the way our club is discriminated against in this league.

spt_claret · Post by **spt_claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:13 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:07 pm
I’m going off a bit now and very annoyed at yet another horrific decision against us in this league but this is why I’m so opposed to commercial interest/initiatives and schemes.

Put on this big front and charade about improving the world and they’re rinsing it and everything good about it for pure profit.

Well and truly ticked off.

Nah mate you're a delusional conspiracy theorist, would never happen in football and it's only a game.
Nevermind that the EPL is the most lucrative sporting league in the world.
Nevermind that it's a league where the average moral fiber and career history of half the owners is more in keeping with Wormwood Scrubs than a sports league, they just can buy their way out of it.
Nevermind that league status, and the associated revenues from all aspects of the matchday & exposure, don't just make or break clubs but make or break TOWNS with the money they bring in for the community & local businesses, nah why are you so worked up about it.
Nevermind that every multi billion pound industry on the planet has faced major corruption scandals.
Nevermind that the Italian league had a corruption scandal not just in living memory but in playing-career memory.
Nevermind that other sports manage just fine with VAR or technology, and with refereeing in general.
Nevermind that the lower leagues with allegedly worse officials, while you'll see mistakes and poor calls, you don't see the same repeat level of consistently unbalanced decisions.

It's all just bad luck, coincidence and honest mistakes.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:14 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:10 pm
So you’re saying he clearly and deliberately hand ball it. That’s the rule.

no, and I've never once said that - i said the ball definitely hit his arm then said it doesn't mean it's deliberate. I think the goal should stand but I'd want it given at the other end and we all know that probably wouldn't happen. They are re-reffing the game and we all know that that wasn't a clear and obvious error. I just find it amusing those of you who say it doesn't hit his arm. Maybe I get different replays over here to what Sky show, it 100% hits his arm (note the word hits, I don't think it's deliberate).......but that's Darren England and Knob Jones for you

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:16 pm

what I would ask and I don't know either way is how far down his arm it hits, does it touch the shirt ? In which case it can't be handball and from the replays I've seen I can't be sure either way - the ruling on the pitch should have stood

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:17 pm

The worst thing the PL did is give more power to these bitter little nerds and demand that everyone respects them.

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:19 pm

Their goal was fine. That freeze frame above is agenda driven nonsence and quite embarrassing. It was miles from touching that arm.

The Brege one was contentious. Might not have been deliberate (hard to be sure) & might have been sleeve and therefore maybe not even the part of the arm to be an offence (hard to say). The clear and obvious thing which isn't applied with any consistency should mean Berge gets benefit of any doubt and stick with the onfield decision. They just ignore that though. The ref should go to the screen and see it's ambiguous and stick to his original decision but they make these decisive decisions at stockwell park these days. Far too much pressure/expectation on the ref to change their mind as soon as VAR intervenes. VAR doesn't recommend they look - VAR makes the decision. The stats bear that out too.

Foster had to go. Shame as he looked like our best player tobight by some distance and has been among our best couple of players in every game so far this season.

We'll learn from all of that and Kompany's comments (not worrying about what he can't control) show the right attitude towards it.

xxmunkyennuixx · Post by **xxmunkyennuixx** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:21 pm

Thought the Notts equaliser hit his lower arm. Thought Berge hit on the lower part of the sleeve which is shoulder area. Last time we were EPL, we drew that line deliberately on our home shirt. Fozzy does elbow but it is soft, it is a yellow max. Of course VAR spots it so we get done over. We can all recount many poor decisions from VAR against us ie. VAR missed Krul punching our player a couple of season ago etc. It's annoying and we need to keep singing about it. It is embarrassing for them to have aired publicly.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:22 pm

what_no_pies wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:19 pm
Their goal was fine. That freeze frame above is agenda driven nonsence and quite embarrassing. It was miles from touching that arm.

The Brege one was contentious. Might not have been deliberate (hard to be sure) & might have been sleeve and therefore maybe not even the part of the arm to be an offence (hard to say). The clear and obvious thing which isn't applied with any consistency should mean Berge gets benefit of any doubt and stick with the onfield decision. They just ignore that though. The ref should go to the screen and see it's ambiguous and stick to his original decision but they make these decisive decisions at stockwell park these days. Far too much pressure/expectation on the ref to change their mind as soon as VAR intervenes. VAR doesn't recommend they look - VAR makes the decision. The stats bear that out too.

Foster had to go. Shame as he looked like our best player tobight by some distance and has been among our best couple of players in every game so far this season.

We'll learn from all of that and Kompany's comments (not worrying about what he can't control) show the right attitude towards it.

and once he goes to the screen he should give us a penalty for holding by McKenna on Berge before the ball hits his arm and give him a red card. It's just very very poor from Darren England in the VAR room and as expected gutless from Rob Jones - he is without question the worst ref in the division but he wasn't helped

bodge · Post by **bodge** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:24 pm

If that was a defender, would we have got a pen, absolutely not.

They are penalising attacking actions and chalking goals off which is what the game is all about.

Slowing it down is wrong, show it at full speed and decide.

Belgianclaret · Post by **Belgianclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:30 pm

Watched both goals on slowmotion more than once. Shocking decision to disallow our goal.

Should have been three points

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:31 pm

https://twitter.com/Citeh_SZN_/status/1 ... 6969066600

Seems clear it hits his bicep, you can see the muscle ripple after the impact. Before contact his arms also change from their natural running stride, maybe he is shielding himself and the ball from the oncoming player, but in doing so he's leaving open the interpretation of controlling the ball.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:31 pm

Claret Alfie wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:43 pm
IMG_1178.jpegIMG_1178.jpeg

That can’t stand and ours be disallowed.

Your stills don't prove that the guy handles it.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:34 pm

No Arm, No Foul reads the headlines on the back of the "I" newspaper with a large colour photo of the incident

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:35 pm

Here's the Forest shout.

https://twitter.com/DKB_99/status/1703880581497450963

Doesn't touch his arm, almost all chest let alone his shoulder.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:43 pm

fidelcastro wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:48 pm
Remember when people, including posters on here, said VAR would put an end to controversial decisions? And the smaller clubs would benefit from these corrupt officials who favour the bigger teams?

I was one of those. A huge fan of it when it was introduced and now feel it’s the worst thing about football.

In honesty, I thought the Berge one was handball although it started above the sleeve then seem to roll down the arm. But is should have been given because the Forest one wasn’t overturned.

Outrageous.

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:54 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:58 pm
it very very clearly does

Sky were reporting it as if it touched he's hand, and was deliberate, it clearly didn't touch he's hand but there was contact further up the arm, but not enough to dictate a hand ball because it was practically under he's armpit, the forest one appears to touch the lower arm and clearly changes the direction of the ball. They just need to be consistent and stop being so biased against us, the commentary was embarrassingly biased against us tonight, just pathetic.

ClaretMat · Post by **ClaretMat** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:01 pm

Everyone who commented on it on Sky said it should have been a goal and that it was a poor decision?

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:02 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:04 pm
I genuinely can't debate something with someone who says the ball doesn't hit his arm when the ball clearly deviates. It's laughable to suggest it doesn't. Doesn't mean it's handball though.

You are a good fellow poster but you are 5000 miles away and I was 50 metres away facing head on. The ball did not deflect at all which is why I though armpit at the time. So did McKenna. So did the ref. Instinct counts for a lot.

VAR in slow mo is not real life. It can distort reality. It wasn't a handball, even allowing for the rules that are stricter when it leads to a goal.