LiVARpool get the VAR footage

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:09 pm

Can I ask why their VAR disallowed goal makes them so special?

They’ve been given the footage first from their game against Spurs

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:13 pm

Do you mean the audio conversation between the officials?

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:17 pm

I'm not sure it's a favour to Liverpool, it's just that they're pursuing it further. Good luck to them, it won't change anything about the result but if it further damages the reputation of VAR then i'm all for it.

Swizzlestick · Post by **Swizzlestick** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:22 pm

They've, quite rightly, requested the audio transcript. Did I hear correctly from Gary Neville that the commentators hear what's being said between the referee and VAR room during the game?

Not really sure why LFC are getting grief for this - the counter argument appears to be, well we had an awful VAR decision go against us, but we didn't say anything. Perhaps you should have? Can't just keep accepting this nonsense, and I'm glad a big club has decided to take a stance.

RickyBobby · Post by **RickyBobby** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:27 pm

It was the big clubs who demanded VAR be implemented in the first place as they weren‘t getting all the decisions. They will complain no matter what. Basically the big clubs won‘t shut up until everything is done to ensure every decision goes their way rightly or wrongly.
VAR is a mess, the premier league is a mess, but as long as pockets still get lined who cares?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:27 pm

I’m giving LFC grief because of the big club bias that they and others in the league appear to get from the authorities and officials. I actually hope they get something done though, as they were “wronged” by VAR, but I can bet statistically they have over time been massive beneficiaries of VAR as all the big clubs are.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:37 pm

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:22 pm
They've, quite rightly, requested the audio transcript. Did I hear correctly from Gary Neville that the commentators hear what's being said between the referee and VAR room during the game?

Yes, the commentary team during games can hear the VAR discussions.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:39 pm

Reported the VAR official, Darren England, believed the goal had been awarded by the on-field officials and not ruled out for offside, so when he confirmed "check complete" he thought he was confirming the goal should stand, unbelievably poor excuse.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:43 pm

claretburns wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:39 pm
Reported the VAR official, Darren England, believed the goal had been awarded by the on-field officials and not ruled out for offside, so when he confirmed "check complete" he thought he was confirming the goal should stand, unbelievably poor excuse.

Cut him some slack, he was officiating in the middle east on Thursday so he might have been a bit tired.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:48 pm

How bad are the referees in the Middle East if they are paying people like that to go over.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:52 pm

claretburns wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:39 pm
Reported the VAR official, Darren England, believed the goal had been awarded by the on-field officials and not ruled out for offside, so when he confirmed "check complete" he thought he was confirming the goal should stand, unbelievably poor excuse.

All in 30 secs.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:09 pm

claretburns wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:39 pm
Reported the VAR official, Darren England, believed the goal had been awarded by the on-field officials and not ruled out for offside, so when he confirmed "check complete" he thought he was confirming the goal should stand, unbelievably poor excuse.

Hang on. If that’s the case then surely when the ref does his usual arm waving and points for a free kick after receiving instructions he believes is not a goal due to being offside, at that point Darren England says to the ref, no, ref that’s not correct, the goal stands he was onside.

Just to add. How long are they going to allow Howard Webb to continue having to apologise for these errors. If it’s five of them involved in var including the ref and they can’t get it right it’s a poor situation we’re in.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:20 pm

Howard Webb will be in the Sky studio talking with his hands again soon.

BigGaz · Post by **BigGaz** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:30 pm

I was saying to my old man nary a week ago that it’s only a matter of time before someone ends up getting litigious and then this crops up.

Does anyone know if Liverpool actually could do that and involve CAS for example, or perhaps it’s a covenant as part of your acceptance of the ‘golden share’ that all decisions are final or something?

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:41 pm

I don't care if there is a "big club bias" in the decision to challenge the way VAR is invoked and determined in the Premier League. Teams small and small have been the victims of too many incorrect decisions and, if it affecting Liverpool is what it takes to move VAR towards a more European 'lighter touch' model then I'm all for it!

daveisaclaret · Post by **daveisaclaret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:43 pm

Big club bias is a problem with our refereeing but if it's what you're moaning about when referees (and in this case one referee consistently) are using video replay to make our league worse then I don't know what to tell you. As others have said glad Liverpool are standing up to it properly and hope we will follow suit next time we're on the end of it.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:44 pm

I mentioned this on another thread. Because it is Liverpool I belive heads will roll at Stockley Park. But more imprtant is what ex referees like Kieth Hackett are saying - about VAR - is that that it really needs put right (hmmm) or scrapped. I'm in favour of the latter as things satnd.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:26 pm

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:22 pm
They've, quite rightly, requested the audio transcript. Did I hear correctly from Gary Neville that the commentators hear what's being said between the referee and VAR room during the game?

Not really sure why LFC are getting grief for this - the counter argument appears to be, well we had an awful VAR decision go against us, but we didn't say anything. Perhaps you should have? Can't just keep accepting this nonsense, and I'm glad a big club has decided to take a stance.

I watched the game in silence but when I saw the image of the offside, no VAR lines but clear grass cut lines, I couldn't believe the goal was called offside. I rerun the TV footage with the commentators talking and they said practically nothing about it. For once I thought I'd also listen to the half time punditry and they said nothing of it until the last lot of adverts when they showed the image again but didn't say a great deal.

Generally their discussion at half time was 'on the fence' rather then any clear opinions. In other words, banal! That's why I don't normally listen to it and try to make my own mind up.

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:43 pm

Just scrap VAR. Please. It has literally no benefits to supporters at all.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:46 pm

VAR used correctly is a fantastic piece of technology that can eradicate cheating and get fair results, used wrongly as it is now and it is wide open to corruption and match fixing to benefit a select few.
VAR doesn't need scrapping, the system and people currently in place needs scrapping.
VAR is fantastic in rugby because it's transparent

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:55 pm

Exactly.

corporal jones · Post by **corporal jones** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:01 pm

bumba wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:46 pm
VAR used correctly is a fantastic piece of technology that can eradicate cheating and get fair results, used wrongly as it is now and it is wide open to corruption and match fixing to benefit a select few.
VAR doesn't need scrapping, the system and people currently in place needs scrapping.
VAR is fantastic in rugby because it's transparent

to benefit the select few? You mean the big clubs.... like Liverpool? Give your head a wobble. Our goal at Forest was disallowed because of interpretation. This was disallowed due to rank incompetence and it must be called out for the sake of all clubs... big and small.

Superjohnnyfrancis · Post by **Superjohnnyfrancis** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:19 pm

Should be like rugby , should hear everything they are saying in the stadium and at home on TV, then their incompetence can be heard for all to hear.

Nothing to hide then.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:20 pm

corporal jones wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:01 pm
to benefit the select few? You mean the big clubs.... like Liverpool? Give your head a wobble. Our goal at Forest was disallowed because of interpretation. This was disallowed due to rank incompetence and it must be called out for the sake of all clubs... big and small.

No I mean the select few which have a little bet on a certain outcome

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:23 pm

It's going to be worth while watching the next few Liverpool games just to see how many borderline decisions go in their favour. The refs and VAR are going to be under real pressure to not screw them over.....

aclaretinstevenage · Post by **aclaretinstevenage** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:43 pm

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:19 pm
Should be like rugby , should hear everything they are saying in the stadium and at home on TV, then their incompetence can be heard for all to hear.

Nothing to hide then.

I agree.

The difference with Rugby though is that the on field Referee initiates the Video check whereas in football the incompetents in the bunker at Stockley Park have that control. Surely it's a simple change to effect that in this case Hooper should have asked VAR " can you just check that offside and let me know". At present the game is being "re-refereed" by VAR and that is just wrong.

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:57 pm

There is nothing wrong with VAR
It is the incompetent officials who are running it who are the problem
Many people, myself included, have always thought it would gain more credence if a former player sat with the numpties in Stockley Park
However, the counter argument to that is whether former players could be seen as having a bias towards certain clubs
Imagine Carra and Neville being on VAR duty together when that goal was disallowed or allowed (who knows which)

Apparently VAR can then only stop a game for wrong initial decisions if it involves thing's like mistaken identity in a red card
Another load of crap - the game should be stopped in all instances of a wrong decision being made

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:05 pm

Add to the above
The incompetent officials have been "stood down" for one game
That really is showing a firm line against them

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:09 pm

Something stinks .....Bookmakers will be involved somewhere in all this.
The truth will come out sooner or later. IMO of course.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:14 pm

Add organized crime to the above!

Middle-agedClaret · Post by **Middle-agedClaret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:23 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:13 pm
Do you mean the audio conversation between the officials?

Steady, now - don’t go letting facts get in the way of whinging.

Superjohnnyfrancis · Post by **Superjohnnyfrancis** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:28 pm

aclaretinstevenage wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:43 pm
I agree.

The difference with Rugby though is that the on field Referee initiates the Video check whereas in football the incompetents in the bunker at Stockley Park have that control. Surely it's a simple change to effect that in this case Hooper should have asked VAR " can you just check that offside and let me know". At present the game is being "re-refereed" by VAR and that is just wrong.

Maybe they should let teams check 3 times per game like cricket and go back to just reffing games as normal however bad they are.

There are way too many stoppages after goals they are killing the Vibe at present, they also take eons to come to a decision.

They need the auto offside machine working as they have shown they can’t draw the lines in the right place.

A simple conversation would have sorted out that offside with the var or the ref. Rabbit in the headlights springs to mind.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:29 pm

Seems to me that this particular issue is easily remedied with better communication between Stockley Park and the on field official. Barking ‘check complete’ without making it clear what the check was for and whether or not to award a goal seems nonsensical and symptomatic of the abysmal way VAR is run in the Premier League. It would literally take an extra second to say, ‘check complete, onside, award the goal’.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:32 pm

Rick_Muller wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:27 pm
I’m giving LFC grief because of the big club bias that they and others in the league appear to get from the authorities and officials. I actually hope they get something done though, as they were “wronged” by VAR, but I can bet statistically they have over time been massive beneficiaries of VAR as all the big clubs are.

I think this is absolute nonsense. If I’m wrong and there are statistics to back up the assertion then I’ll take it back.
The reason big clubs appear to you to be the beneficiaries of VAR is just that the big clubs are generally in the top 6, and the more successful. They “appear” to get the decisions because they’ve got the best players who create more chances, have more attacking play and score more goals.
I really hate this small club victim mentality a lot of our supporters seem to have.

VAR should be binned by the way.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:53 pm

I heard someone making a good point about VAR regarding betting and being cheated out of winnings - if you had Diaz down as first goal scorer at the weekend you got done by that decision.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:55 pm

VAR should definitely, 100% be binned. Hands up all those who missed it last season. Mmm, thought so.

daveisaclaret · Post by **daveisaclaret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:48 pm

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3718 ... 69410963=1

Audio released. Seems to me less like the official story and more that England literally just didn't know what was going on. He said at one point "goal, offside, yeah"

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:57 pm

Audio shows that as soon as the game restarts they realise the error and know a goal should have been awarded but England keeps repeating "I can't do anything" despite the 4th official saying to delay the game.

I know the game has officially been restarted but why then can't they stop and say got it wrong, goal for Liverpool, would have had the right outcome in the end and they wouldn't have half the criticism being thrown at them now.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:02 pm

Pretty much the tale that came out on Saturday night. England thought the goal has been given. By the time his error was pointed out to him, play had restarted and he couldn’t intervene under the current rules.

Major balls up, but if they stopped talking to each other like robots, someone would have realised before it was too late. Instead of “check complete”, could England not just have said “Diaz is onside, the goal should stand”?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:08 pm

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:48 pm
https://www.premierleague.com/news/3718 ... 69410963=1

Audio released. Seems to me less like the official story and more that England literally just didn't know what was going on. He said at one point "goal, offside, yeah"

That’s hilarious. No wonder we don’t get to hear this footage live.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:12 pm

Talk about amateur hour.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:15 pm

As was said on Sky.
The starting point should be a clear instruction to VAR is what the on field decisions is.

Had that been done, this would have been avoided.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:17 pm

agreenwood wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:02 pm
Pretty much the tale that came out on Saturday night. England thought the goal has been given. By the time his error was pointed out to him, play had restarted and he couldn’t intervene under the current rules.

Major balls up, but if they stopped talking to each other like robots, someone would have realised before it was too late. Instead of “check complete”, could England not just have said “Diaz is onside, the goal should stand”?

At both cricket and rugby, the on-field decision is clearly stated by the ref and the off-field reviewers then have state that they have clear contrary evidence for the on-field decision to be overturned- so everybody knows where they stand,

If the ref had clearly stated "the on-field decision (by the lino) is offside, do you have any evidence to overrule that?" Surely the Stockley Park contact would have come back with an over-rule as it was clearly onside (without even having to draw the cursed lines).

Communication Breakdown

Roger Mellie · Post by **Roger Mellie** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:19 pm

People are losing their minds on this. 5 years ago it would’ve been a brief eye roll due to the fact a lino made a mistake. With VAR ( which PL clubs are paying £3-5m for! ) it’s on the main news and litigation is being threatened.

This is ludicrous.

Get rid. Now.

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:20 pm

If you actually listen in the background when the error is first discovered you can hear England say somthing muffled and then "left back". It's not in the transcript either but seems like England had already made his mind up that he was offside.

Similar thing in our game.

They've published this to hang him out to dry though in my opinion, I suspect to deflect the attention away from VAR itself.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:21 pm

They should also follow the ilk of cricket video. If too difficult to confirm either way (such as Berge incident) stick with the on field decision. No more pitch side screens either.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:22 pm

The fool should be taken off VAR indefinitely.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:28 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:53 pm
I heard someone making a good point about VAR regarding betting and being cheated out of winnings - if you had Diaz down as first goal scorer at the weekend you got done by that decision.

It was the onfield decision, though, so you’d have lost your bet even if VAR didn’t exist.

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:18 pm

claretburns wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:57 pm
Audio shows that as soon as the game restarts they realise the error and know a goal should have been awarded but England keeps repeating "I can't do anything" despite the 4th official saying to delay the game.

I know the game has officially been restarted but why then can't they stop and say got it wrong, goal for Liverpool, would have had the right outcome in the end and they wouldn't have half the criticism being thrown at them now.

I take your point but if they go down that road then games would never get finished.

VAR has turned out to be football's Pandora's Box.

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:34 pm

Our game vs Notts Forest - VAR got it wrong. Human error. We've moved on.

Spurs vs Liverpool - VAR got it wrong. The linesman got it wrong. Human error. Move on.

But it's Liverpool so the media and Liverpool won't move on.