January transfer window rumours.

[NewClaret]

Linked to Man City youngster Jadel Katongo, currently on loan at Peterborough.

Interestingly, originally a CB but has been played as DM whilst on loan and impressing. Obviously would be a big step up.

https://www.manchestercity.news/report- ... -sign-him/

Sort of sums up the challenge around signings.

That article recommends he goes to Southampton because we’re bottom of the table and they are fourth in the Championship and “might come up next year”.

Just illustrates the perspectives of joining a relegation threatened team.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Linked to Man City youngster Jadel Katongo, currently on loan at Peterborough.

Interestingly, originally a CB but has been played as DM whilst on loan and impressing. Obviously would be a big step up.

https://www.manchestercity.news/report- ... -sign-him/

No no no no. We’ve been stung already by City buying players from them who only have League One experience and are clearly not up to the task at hand.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Hopefully the club run any signings past the non attending vocal section of "fans"

We had the dross posted about Foster (majority of it from the poster above) and I presume there is a reason the Trafford thread seems to have been deleted at the weekend. It is probably better for the player rather than the club that we don't sign any youngsters with potential in January which is a really sad thought process.

[CoolClaret]

Apologies??? Haha, yeah, alright……

He put in an ‘ok’ performance in a team playing a low block that still got beat.

Here’s another way of looking at it; all three goals came down his side and he barely crossed the half way line in fear of getting caught.

Vitinho did ok on Saturday - but that was it. There’s a cigarette paper between Vitinho and Roberts for who should wear the shirt currently - neither are really up to it at this level. I’m hoping we bring at least 2 if not 3 defenders in come January and both full backs are replaced as a minimum.

My point being that you can only really judge (especially young player) after a few runs in the side in their favourable position.

To infer that the goals (two of which came from a corner) is somehow attributable to Vitinho just because they happened to come from our right side of the field is incredibly disingenuous.

[sjb]

No no no no. We’ve been stung already by City buying players from them who only have League One experience and are clearly not up to the task at hand.

I take it you've seen him play a couple of times and decided he's pony?

[Jamesy]

If we are still bottom of the league come end of December, there won’t be any incomings in January.
Pace won’t allow Kompany any more money to spunk on “potential”.
It will be a damage limitation exercise as the fact that we have spent circa 120 million on players will have a massive bearing on life in the Championship next season.
I doubt very much if clubs will be queuing up to buy said potential off us as they are as yet not proven. Contrast this to the 80-90 million we received in player sales on our last relegation and we have a real debt problem on our hands.
Interesting times ahead.

[Clive 1960]

linked to Callum Styles at Barnsley who we let go when he was a kid.

[Jamesy]

linked to Callum Styles at Barnsley who we let go when he was a kid.

They will want a minimum of 10 million for him so won’t happen.

[Longsidelenny1882]

Used to watch Callum when he was at the club how he wasn’t taken on is still a mystery utc

[dandeclaret]

They will want a minimum of 10 million for him so won’t happen.

£3m release clause I believe....

[Jamesy]

£3m release clause I believe....

Yes but if more than one bidder the fee will rise significantly. And he would have to hit the ground running. As I said, if we are still rock bottom end of December Pace will be twitchy about spending any more money.

[Clive 1960]

Used to watch Callum when he was at the club how he wasn’t taken on is still a mystery utc

just like a few others i could name when my Son was down there , a lot of it is if your face fits, but things have changed down at the training ground i believe.

[Goobs]

Hopefully the club run any signings past the non attending vocal section of "fans"

We had the dross posted about Foster (majority of it from the poster above) and I presume there is a reason the Trafford thread seems to have been deleted at the weekend. It is probably better for the player rather than the club that we don't sign any youngsters with potential in January which is a really sad thought process.

And people on this board wondered why Dyche was always so reluctant to blood young players!

He basically said on at least 1 occasion that it was down to the toxic atmosphere around the place and that they got jumped on for any little mistake.

[Jamesy]

And people on this board wondered why Dyche was always so reluctant to blood young players!

He basically said on at least 1 occasion that it was down to the toxic atmosphere around the place and that they got jumped on for any little mistake.

Any examples of this?

[spt_claret]

Used to watch Callum when he was at the club how he wasn’t taken on is still a mystery utc

Players develop at different ages. Cameron Howieson at 17-18 looked like he could be a top top player, fast tracking him to the NZ squad probably screwed up that development whereas keeping him in and around the club, with a lower league loan, may have done him better.

Aidan O'Neill looked raw and inexperienced in his PL cameos but like he had some ambition to progress us forward, I was surprised he never got a look in afterwards or pushed on in his loans but he's broken into the Australian national team now at 25.

Neal Trotman looked to have bags of potential when I saw him play but never made it above League 1. Pugh I couldn't get us releasing and his subsequent career says it all but there's no telling that if we hadn't released him, he'd have developed the same, getting blooded with regular lower league football probably did him the world of good.

Alex MacDonald had that 1 preseason where he looked to have come on miles but never made it click. Wes Fletcher was hyped by a youth coach to my dad as being better than Jay, didn't happen. Shay McCartan didn't look up to much to me but had a respectable lower league career. Mehdi Lazaar & Michael King each looked a real talent when I saw him but never made it.

Dwight was readymade from the minute we put him in the side but Man United didn't see anything in him. City let Trippier go to us for a bargain and he's arguably the best/one of the best RBs in football for the last 3-4 years.

It's so so hard to tell how a player at 16-19 will end up, some players develop abruptly and massively, some at later ages, some who are good for their age at 16-18 stall or even regress. Look at Richard Chaplow, he probably peaked with us age 19-20. Very easy to say in hindsight we should have kept someone or shouldn't have signed a youngster, harder to say at the time.

[NewClaret]

Yes but if more than one bidder the fee will rise significantly. And he would have to hit the ground running. As I said, if we are still rock bottom end of December Pace will be twitchy about spending any more money.

Well, one month to go to know whether you’re right or very wrong.

[daveisaclaret]

Styles was playing in League Two aged 16 within about 2 months of being released and some very credible people (one of whom has posted in this thread) have said the decision to let him go was widely seen at the time by those with knowledge as a really bad one.

[FeedTheArf]

Yes but if more than one bidder the fee will rise significantly. And he would have to hit the ground running. As I said, if we are still rock bottom end of December Pace will be twitchy about spending any more money.

That's not how release clauses work. If it's true that he does have a £3m release clause, then it'll be £3m no matter how many bidders there are.

The one thing it might do is give his agent a stronger hand to up the wages / signing on fee, but not the transfer fee.

[NewClaret]

That's not how release clauses work. If it's true that he does have a £3m release clause, then it'll be £3m no matter how many bidders there are.

The one thing it might do is give his agent a stronger hand to up the wages / signing on fee, but not the transfer fee.

Correct.

[FeedTheArf]

Players develop at different ages. Cameron Howieson at 17-18 looked like he could be a top top player, fast tracking him to the NZ squad probably screwed up that development whereas keeping him in and around the club, with a lower league loan, may have done him better.

Aidan O'Neill looked raw and inexperienced in his PL cameos but like he had some ambition to progress us forward, I was surprised he never got a look in afterwards or pushed on in his loans but he's broken into the Australian national team now at 25.

Neal Trotman looked to have bags of potential when I saw him play but never made it above League 1. Pugh I couldn't get us releasing and his subsequent career says it all but there's no telling that if we hadn't released him, he'd have developed the same, getting blooded with regular lower league football probably did him the world of good.

Alex MacDonald had that 1 preseason where he looked to have come on miles but never made it click. Wes Fletcher was hyped by a youth coach to my dad as being better than Jay, didn't happen. Shay McCartan didn't look up to much to me but had a respectable lower league career. Mehdi Lazaar & Michael King each looked a real talent when I saw him but never made it.

Dwight was readymade from the minute we put him in the side but Man United didn't see anything in him. City let Trippier go to us for a bargain and he's arguably the best/one of the best RBs in football for the last 3-4 years.

It's so so hard to tell how a player at 16-19 will end up, some players develop abruptly and massively, some at later ages, some who are good for their age at 16-18 stall or even regress. Look at Richard Chaplow, he probably peaked with us age 19-20. Very easy to say in hindsight we should have kept someone or shouldn't have signed a youngster, harder to say at the time.

You're completely right. Every club has examples of this. United re-buying Pogba for £80m was it? Rice getting released by Chelsea and going for £100m a few years on.

In the vast majority of cases, we get it right.

[Jamesy]

Well, one month to go to know whether you’re right or very wrong.

I am not some clever dick who would turn round and say I told you so. I do hope I am wrong. However I believe Pace and co will be twitching right now because of the level of debt we are in.
The next 6 weeks, not one month will determine what if any activity will happen in January. Personally I think if the situation still looks dire 6 weeks on he won’t want to spend any more money on transfers.
I hope he doesn’t pull the trigger either and fire Kompany. It’s Kompany’s fairly expensively assembled squad and it’s up to him and his team to effectively coach them and get a tune out of them. We shall see.

[StayingDown4Ever]

I take it you've seen him play a couple of times and decided he's pony?

Never seen him once. What I have seen is a team who are crying out for some experience, not a team who need another member adding to the squad who ‘might’ turn in a profit in a couple of years time.

[Jamesy]

That's not how release clauses work. If it's true that he does have a £3m release clause, then it'll be £3m no matter how many bidders there are.

The one thing it might do is give his agent a stronger hand to up the wages / signing on fee, but not the transfer fee.

Are you sure? I thought release clauses were triggered once someone went above the amount set? Didn’t Cornet have a release clause but ended up going to West Ham for more than the release clause?

[Goobs]

Any examples of this?

If you want to trawl through every interview Dyche ever did then feel free. I remember him saying about the audible groans from the crowd around misplaced passes and it being part of the reason why he found it hard for young players to be brought in.

IIRC it was possibly at the time when Benson was getting introduced to the the team.

[Jamesy]

If you want to trawl through every interview Dyche ever did then feel free. I remember him saying about the audible groans from the crowd around misplaced passes and it being part of the reason why he found it hard for young players to be brought in.

IIRC it was possibly at the time when Benson was getting introduced to the the team.

I don’t. I was just asking for some examples. I think when young players have been blooded, on the whole our crowd were quite patient and got behind them. Even during Dyche’s tenure. Apart from maybe when he didn’t care about cup competitions and played too many in the same team.

[daveisaclaret]

I'm sure Dyche said it a few times but the big examples to me were under Howe when he gave Hewitt and Howieson a few minutes and they both got really over the top negative reactions when losing the ball.

[NewClaret]

Are you sure? I thought release clauses were triggered once someone went above the amount set? Didn’t Cornet have a release clause but ended up going to West Ham for more than the release clause?

No, Cornet went for his release clause.

No clubs offer more than a release clause because a club has to accept the release clause irrespective of the number of bidders. So they all bid the release clause, knowing the club have to accept, then haggle with the player.

[NewClaret]

I am not some clever dick who would turn round and say I told you so. I do hope I am wrong. However I believe Pace and co will be twitching right now because of the level of debt we are in.
The next 6 weeks, not one month will determine what if any activity will happen in January. Personally I think if the situation still looks dire 6 weeks on he won’t want to spend any more money on transfers.
I hope he doesn’t pull the trigger either and fire Kompany. It’s Kompany’s fairly expensively assembled squad and it’s up to him and his team to effectively coach them and get a tune out of them. We shall see.

I didn’t say you were, or that you will be wrong, just that we’ll find out soon enough.

I don’t think anyone knows the real picture but my perspectives on your points:

The existence of debt is an assumption. Maybe a fair one but I don’t think anyone knows if we are in debt anymore. Even less so net debt. We do know two group companies recently received a lot of cash but no idea if the club will receive any of it - but it is a sign there is cash within the group, which I mention because it’s a bit of a relief to me.

I agree that our transfer business will depend where we are in the league table and if things continue as they are we really should start planning for the Championship.

Pace can’t win either way. If he spends he’ll be accused of being reckless and putting the club at risk. If he doesn’t, they’ll all say it’s because we don’t have a pot to urinate in and he no longer trusts Kompany. There will be brainless arguments regardless.

I think loans are the way forward in any event. Picking off players with experience that will improve us but aren’t playing at their current club. So you might be right that he spends nada but can still improve the squad.

I sense Kompany works super hard at improving the team so whatever levels of anxiety that Alan is suffering, I’d expect to see him working just as hard at bringing players in as Kompany is working to improve the ones we have.

I agree that we should not be sacking Kompany in a million years. He’s established a team with more technical quality and potential than I’ve ever known a Burnley squad to have. It’s very young and inexperienced, and I think that’s a mistake, but he needs to be given time to get the best out of the talent he’s assembled.

[Jamesy]

No, Cornet went for his release clause.

No clubs offer more than a release clause because a club has to accept the release clause irrespective of the number of bidders. So they all bid the release clause, knowing the club have to accept, then haggle with the player.

Cheers for this. I genuinely didn’t know how it works.

[Westleigh]

I think 99.9% of our fans wouldn’t boo any of the kids that have come through the youth set up,but back in the day a pal of mine played in the youth team and he always said that the lads that came from away were always really well looked after ,but the ones who came from the immediate vicinity tended to be forgotten about as soon as a game was finished and left to their own devices.

[Holtyclaret]

If we are still bottom of the league come end of December, there won’t be any incomings in January.
Pace won’t allow Kompany any more money to spunk on “potential”.
It will be a damage limitation exercise as the fact that we have spent circa 120 million on players will have a massive bearing on life in the Championship next season.
I doubt very much if clubs will be queuing up to buy said potential off us as they are as yet not proven. Contrast this to the 80-90 million we received in player sales on our last relegation and we have a real debt problem on our hands.
Interesting times ahead.

Before unnecessarily upsetting yourself about our finances, think of our income over the last couple of years, very Rough fag packet maths for illustration;

sky money (21/22), parachute payment, championship winning money?, sky money (23/24), increased corporate and sponsorship, full house each game, player sales and minor investment group (£140m ish) etc etc …

Total this up and it’s pretty easy to understand that we’re sitting pretty comfortably and that £80-90m in instalments spent last summer and potential relegation really isn’t the financial disaster some foresee and there will be funds available in jan and the summer as required (within reason).

The fact we’ve stocked the shelves with talented youngsters on long contracts is also a huge financial plus. It’s not what they’re worth in 6 months but what they could be worth in 2-3 years or more.

Pace will be annoyed like most of us at the start we’ve made but he’ll be more bothered as to where we’ll be in a couple of years. Obviously he’d prefer to stay up as we all would.

[thelifeofbrian]

I am not some clever dick who would turn round and say I told you so. I do hope I am wrong. However I believe Pace and co will be twitching right now because of the level of debt we are in.
The next 6 weeks, not one month will determine what if any activity will happen in January. Personally I think if the situation still looks dire 6 weeks on he won’t want to spend any more money on transfers.
I hope he doesn’t pull the trigger either and fire Kompany. It’s Kompany’s fairly expensively assembled squad and it’s up to him and his team to effectively coach them and get a tune out of them. We shall see

your argument doesn't make sense!!- you're basically saying were in debt because of the money we've spent but that is all factored into the budget so it dosent matter where we are in the league, the money has been spent and we are where we are.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

No, Cornet went for his release clause.

No clubs offer more than a release clause because a club has to accept the release clause irrespective of the number of bidders. So they all bid the release clause, knowing the club have to accept, then haggle with the player.

Cornet went for his release clause. But the chairman held out for the full £17?m up front as opposed to the other team’s payment plan offers. So all credit to Pace for that.

[KRBFC]

Yes but if more than one bidder the fee will rise significantly. And he would have to hit the ground running. As I said, if we are still rock bottom end of December Pace will be twitchy about spending any more money.

Why would the fee rise if it’s a £3m release clause

If Accy Stanley bid £15m for him, Burnley would still get him for £3m. (Assuming he chose us over them)

[NewClaret]

Cornet went for his release clause. But the chairman held out for the full £17?m up front as opposed to the other team’s payment plan offers. So all credit to Pace for that.

Fair point. That was a good bit of business.

[burnley007]

Premier League GIANTS Burnley...

https://www.snl24.com/soccerladuma/loca ... e-20231121

[gandhisflipflop]

Premier League GIANTS Burnley...

https://www.snl24.com/soccerladuma/loca ... e-20231121

28 years old and a right back. It’s better than being linked with wingers, and it may also help Foster by bringing in a familiar face.

[Stayingup]

Not our business but I have read that Chelsea want to sign Ivan Toney. I still feel we missed out not getting him from Peterborough at the time. Chairman at the time had his pockets stitched up even then.

[gandhisflipflop]

And posters backing the chairman saying we shouldn’t be spending money on league one players.

[boatshed bill]

And posters backing the chairman saying we shouldn’t be spending money on league one players.

Yep, that would have scuppered the deal.

[Woonderbah]

You're completely right. Every club has examples of this. United re-buying Pogba for £80m was it? Rice getting released by Chelsea and going for £100m a few years on.

In the vast majority of cases, we get it right.

Didn't Chelsea let Lukaku, De Bruyne, Salah as well as Rice leave on the cheap ?.. probably others too

[Claretnick]

Noah Allen left back from Inter Miami having trial with us and the Potters...
https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/ ... 1344045095

[boatshed bill]

I know we're in deep water, but this is ridiculous

[IanMcL]

Cornet went for his release clause. But the chairman held out for the full £17?m up front as opposed to the other team’s payment plan offers. So all credit to Pace for that.

That's exactly it, CinM. The clause sum is fixed, however, someone has to pay it, there and then, unless the owning club agree to an alternative. Mr P stayed firm.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Noah Allen left back from Inter Miami having trial with us and the Potters...
https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/ ... 1344045095

Not getting a permit in a million years unless we send him to, er, Dundee for a year.

[TopCat]

I would have thought that there would have been more links.

[Westleigh]

Not getting a permit in a million years unless we send him to, er, Dundee for a year.

Can’t just remember my post but I put it on a couple of weeks ago saying we could have 2 players called Noah at one club.

[PWBFC]

Linked to Papa Gueye by The Sun. Defensive midfielder at Marseilles.

[jdrobbo]

Can’t just remember my post but I put it on a couple of weeks ago saying we could have 2 players called Noah at one club.

He liked his animals to be in twos so two of himself ain’t no bad thing

[CoolClaret]

The only thing I'd be looking at is decent players on loan that aren't getting game time for other teams that would like to showcase themselves for an opportunity at this years Euros

Players of a similar profile to a Dendonckerm for example.