Sacking Kompany

[kentonclaret]

Unless I am mistaken, an integral part of this project was to turn Turf Moor into “a fortress” where visiting teams feared to come.

How’s that coming along?

[gandhisflipflop]

I’ll look forward to bumping this thread in 12-18 months time which will show up a lot of posters without footballing knowledge

[Anthonini]

Dominated the game should have put it to bed and didn’t. Enjoy your day in your bedroom!

At least someone who watched the same game.
Don't think West Ham had fun for 80 minutes... Of course stealing a win makes you go home with a big smile.

The mere fact that we're able to play the way we did yesterday against a better team with some top players like Paqueta shows that we are making good progress.

We shouldn't let the result determine the way we feel about the way we performed. Though it was a big disappointment for all of us, we played a very good game.

[Anthonini]

I’ll look forward to bumping this thread in 12-18 months time which will show up a lot of posters without footballing knowledge

Exactly

[ClaretAL]

Dominated the game should have put it to bed and didn’t. Enjoy your day in your bedroom!

That’s how I saw it. I just wish Kmopany would not feel the need to make subs when we don’t need to. We were cruising to our first win at home, the adrenaline alone for the 1st eleven to know that was what they were going to achieve would have kept away any tired legs. That loss was on on Vinny not the quality of our players.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

No I said they would go. I doubt any would be signed by prem clubs. Potentially foster but that’s it. The rest will likely disappear to France, Netherlands, Belgium, a few perhaps to Turkey or Saudi.

Off course I’m obsessed with staying up? Our clubs long term stability depends on it. Championship clubs by and large are all ******* money down the drain on the hope they get to where we are. The only difference is the majority of them have owners with deep pockets.

Doubt any would be signed by PL clubs?

Ok

I think a few people are going to make this kind of poor assumption, like they’ve done in the past

[kentonclaret]

Whilst it is not too difficult to explain away a home defeat by West Ham it will become almost impossible should this loss be followed by another to next weekend’s opponents Sheffield United. At some point improved performances have to be translated into victories and points on the board.

[taio]

At least someone who watched the same game.
Don't think West Ham had fun for 80 minutes... Of course stealing a win makes you go home with a big smile.

The mere fact that we're able to play the way we did yesterday against a better team with some top players like Paqueta shows that we are making good progress.

We shouldn't let the result determine the way we feel about the way we performed. Though it was a big disappointment for all of us, we played a very good game.

I'm not sure how you can think we're making good progress. And West Ham weren't a better team yesterday - they looked poor albeit with a weakened side. We threw a brilliant opportunity away.

[AlargeClaret]

We’re mid-team rebuild right now, just needs time to ‘grow’. We haven’t bought ready made superstars and very few would leave if we were relegated. Couple sold, couple loaned out.

Yes we are , though ,thus far the re-build is verging on disaster ,much as it pains me to say that . If we do go down (and I genuinely think there’s enough poor teams to allow us to make a fight of it ) it’s impossible to say what would happen . VK could be gone , a clear out of older players , our best will be sold etc . Staying up has to be our goal though .

[Big Vinny K]

West Ham were awful yesterday. Especially the first half where they offered absolutely nothing.
Does not mean they don’t have good players though as we saw when they finally woke up from their slumber in the last 10 minutes.

West Ham, Palace and Man United all had really really poor off days and it’s so frustrating that we did not pick up a single point against them. It’s extremely unlikely that any of these teams will be as poor as this when we play them in front of their home fans.

A big issue as to why we are not taking these opportunities is we are just not creating enough good chances in games. It’s not often we are getting one on ones or situations where we have 3 against 2 (as we did so often last season). If you add to that how poor we are from set pieces and in particular corners then the biggest threat (in terms of how most goals are scored) is getting to the byline and pulling it back to on rushing players which is always very difficult for teams to defend against. In Koleosho we have a player who can get to the byline but his end product is either not good enough or we do not have enough players supporting him in the box.

[Anthonini]

I'm not sure how you can think we're making good progress. And West Ham weren't a better team yesterday - they looked poor albeit with a weakened side. We threw a brilliant opportunity away.

We made them look poor by winning our physical battles on the midfield and in the back. West Ham is a decent mid region team that had been in the PL for years. A draw would have been great and we came close to a win.

Strange how you can call our opponents poor nuancing our own teams performance? We played them without a decent striker with a completely new team. Young team as well that just got promoted.

Berge and Brownhill went to battle at midfield. Each and every player did everything they could at any given moment. I'm glad with what I saw overall. Of course the last 10 minutes make you want to throw up but we got to keep looking forward.

[daveisaclaret]

West Ham, Palace and Man United all had really really poor off days and it’s so frustrating that we did not pick up a single point against them. It’s extremely unlikely that any of these teams will be as poor as this when we play them in front of their home fans.

If teams keep having really really poor off days against us it's very obviously because we're playing well.

[taio]

We made them look poor by winning our physical battles on the midfield and in the back. West Ham is a decent mid region team that had been in the PL for years. A draw would have been great and we came close to a win.

Strange how you can call our opponents poor nuancing our own teams performance? We played them without a decent striker with a completely new team. Young team as well that just got promoted.

Berge and Brownhill went to battle at midfield. Each and every player did everything they could at any given moment. I'm glad with what I saw overall. Of course the last 10 minutes make you want to throw up but we got to keep looking forward.

It's not strange at all. I wasn't judging them based on their history; just on their performance yesterday with a weakened side. They were poor and we came away with nothing.

[Rileybobs]

If teams keep having really really poor off days against us it's very obviously because we're playing well.

Yes, to a degree. But when we played Manchester United they lacked effort and application which wasn’t a result of how we played - although we were good in that game. Equally Palace didn’t have any aspiration to leave their own half yet still beat us by two.

West Ham were below par, in part due to their injuries, but I felt we battled well against them and gave them a really good game.

[Conroy92]

What I find amazing is how many fans seem content with just dropping back to the championship. You do all realise there's 2/3rds of a season left.

Why do people think that if Vinnie can't keep us in this league no one can.

I thought after half of you had egg on your faces with "no one will get us promoted from the championship other than dyche" you might be able to see football goes on after a manager.
Yet here we are again, it's either Vinnie or no one.

We might still go down but changing the manager also brings a possibility of staying up.

[Jakubclaret]

If teams keep having really really poor off days against us it's very obviously because we're playing well.

Or perhaps alternatively they realise that there’s no need to go through the gears because basically you can do the bare minimum in a half arsed way & still ensure maximum points it’s a far more plausible explanation than we are playing well, it’s pretty much got to the point where they just have to turn up & just wait for us to make a mistake.

[beddie]

For those wanting Kompany sacked give your head a wobble. His main striker was finding form then suddenly he loses him for an indefinite period. Other injuries haven’t helped and to top it we’ve had some awful var decisions. I still can’t get over yesterday’s not being given, annoyingly it wasn’t even mentioned on MOTD. Everyone of course is entitled to their opinion but to sack him would be the wrong decision, I’m looking at the long term plan and I’d like him to still be in charge for several more seasons at least.

[JohnMac]

I'm not into this blame game syndrome.

Those lads picked by VK couldn't have given much more yesterday and the subs were right with Ramsey breaking through immediately.

There is no blame, we were beaten by an experienced team that had the energy to give a little bit more in the final 10 minutes.

They won the Europa Conference League last season but I still see comments about Moyes must go, he was slated on social media for picking 'that waste of oxygen' Danny Ings yesterday.

We are in an extremely difficult period for sure but as long as the players continue to give 100% and the Manager continues to be positive and back himself, the players and the club 100%, that will do for me.

Too many self entitled supporters at every club who profess to know everything about the game, the club policies and confidential information it makes me wonder why they are on message boards and not TV UTC

[jrgbfc]

For those wanting Kompany sacked give your head a wobble. His main striker was finding form then suddenly he loses him for an indefinite period. Other injuries haven’t helped and to top it we’ve had some awful var decisions. I still can’t get over yesterday’s not being given, annoyingly it wasn’t even mentioned on MOTD. Everyone of course is entitled to their opinion but to sack him would be the wrong decision, I’m looking at the long term plan and I’d like him to still be in charge for several more seasons at least.

I'm not Kompany out, but the striker situation is partly our/his own making. We knew Foster had issues, yet still decided to go into this season with just him and Jay Rod, whilst we have about 5 new wingers who can't get a look in.

[Blatherwickstattoo]

He’ll be gone if we get beat off sheffield United I’m afraid

[Nori1958]

He’ll be gone if we get beat off sheffield United I’m afraid

A bet, for charity that he won't?

[Jakubclaret]

A bet, for charity that he won't?

In that scenario it would suggest more that pace can’t afford to sack him rather than a belief in him.

[Nori1958]

In that scenario it would suggest more that pace can’t afford to sack him rather than a belief in him.

Only possibly in your world

[Spiral]

Sacking him after we lose to SheffU will be a bigger blunder with more costly long-term term consequences than the hypothetical loss to SheffU itself, which is recoverable, and might be of limited consequences if results go our way next weekend.

[MrTopTier]

We went up in 2013/14 and back down in 2014/15 then came back up and stayed up. We didn’t win any of the first ten games.

I realise expectations were significantly different this time and there is no doubt we have hit a bump in the road. We just have stick with it and hope it turns and if doesn’t go again in the Championship, not the end of the world is it.

[Jakubclaret]

Only possibly in your world

We don’t know for sure but it’s reasonable to assume it’d be an expensive exercise paying him off & also bringing somebody else in.

[BurnleyFC]

If teams keep having really really poor off days against us it's very obviously because we're playing well.

We might’ve played well, but Crystal Palace aside, we’re not creating that many goal scoring opportunities. And we’ve not a cat in hell’s chance of keeping a clean sheet at the moment.

We’re easy pickings for teams.

[Spiral]

We don’t know for sure but it’s reasonable to assume it’d be an expensive exercise paying him off & also bringing somebody else in.

Just because it'd be expensive doesn't mean it's the reason he's still with us. I don't know if you've noticed but our owners are quite willing to gamble with the clubs money, which suggests they believe we stick with Kompany for football reasons, not because it might be prohibitively expensive. Any other club would have sacked their manager by now after spending so much, and many fan bases would be baying for blood, but we're trying something a little different. As a group of fans we have the opportunity to be the fans that football idealises but rarely sees: patient ones; smart ones; level headed; cool; brave, etc.

[Nori1958]

We don’t know for sure but it’s reasonable to assume it’d be an expensive exercise paying him off & also bringing somebody else in.

It would be expensive, but that's not the reason they won't get rid of him.... More that they have more faith in him than some of our fans ( won't call them supporters as they don't fit the definition)

[Jakubclaret]

Just because it'd be expensive doesn't mean it's the reason he's still with us. I don't know if you've noticed but our owners are quite willing to gamble with the clubs money, which suggests they believe we stick with Kompany for football reasons, not because it might be prohibitively expensive. Any other club would have sacked their manager by now after spending so much, and many fan bases would be baying for blood, but we're trying something a little different. As a group of fans we have the opportunity to be the fans that football idealises but rarely sees: patient ones; smart ones; level headed; cool; brave, etc.

The owners will be conscious what happened with SD after rewarding him with a new contract & ending things, if it becomes financially better off sacking him than keeping him I don't think they'd hesitate & I do think pace is hoping things improve as it will be expensive parting ways with him. Pace is a businessman first & foremost. As a group of fans we can also be perceived as being mugs letting an unacceptable situation continue.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It would be expensive, but that's not the reason they won't get rid of him.... More that they have more faith in him than some of our fans ( won't call them supporters as they don't fit the definition)

Out of interest Nori what will it take for you to decide it’s worth sacking him?

At the moment he’s on track to go down as one of the worst prem managers in history. Without trying to be argumentative I honestly do not understand the logic that he should be supported regardless of performance.

[ecc]

Has anybody on here read his contract? Just because it's announced as a "five-year contract" doesn't mean there aren't any performance-related clauses both positive and negative.

[taio]

Out of interest Nori what will it take for you to decide it’s worth sacking him?

At the moment he’s on track to go down as one of the worst prem managers in history. Without trying to be argumentative I honestly do not understand the logic that he should be supported regardless of performance.

1) Some want him sacked now.
2) Some will want him sacked later if things don't quickly improve.
3) Some will want him to stay if we are relegated but he'd need to start the season very well to retain their support.

I favour 3.

[Nori1958]

Out of interest Nori what will it take for you to decide it’s worth sacking him?

At the moment he’s on track to go down as one of the worst prem managers in history. Without trying to be argumentative I honestly do not understand the logic that he should be supported regardless of performance.

Last season he was one of the best championship managers ever... So there's a good manager in there.
I wouldn't sack him this season what ever happens

If things improve all well and good, if they don't, we'd have the best person to get us back up.

[CoolClaret]

Last season he was one of the best championship managers ever... So there's a good manager in there.
I wouldn't sack him this season what ever happens

If things improve all well and good, if they don't, we'd have the best person to get us back up.

With the highest playing budget in the league *

It was brilliant - no question about it. He did a fantastic job.

But the point is if we want to have any success in this league we need a manager that can deliver results when not a financial powerhouse of the league.

Is VK capable of doing so? I’m not so sure, in all honesty.

[taio]

With the highest playing budget in the league *

It was brilliant - no question about it. He did a fantastic job.

But the point is if we want to have any success in this league we need a manager that can deliver results when not a financial powerhouse of the league.

Is VK capable of doing so? I’m not so sure, in all honesty.

Did he not exceed your expectations last season, irrespective of budget?

[Stayingup]

Screenshot_20231126-102023.png

I'd hardly say that's dominant more even.

I'd like to see the stats for the first half. A half in which we were the better team and really should have scored a couple.

[CoolClaret]

Did he not exceed your expectations last season, irrespective of budget?

Yeah I thought it was brilliant. I’m not disputing that.

Baffled by a lot of what’s gone on this summer/season, mind.

[taio]

Yeah I thought it was brilliant. I’m not disputing that.

Baffled by a lot of what’s gone on this summer/season, mind.

I just wondered why you referenced the budget.

I agree some of the approach has been baffling from the summer.

I feel Kompany deserves time to adapt and learn lessons especially when he's an inexperienced manager.

[Marvins Van]

May 22nd 2022
Driving home from the Newcastle relegation game.
Relegated.
No manager.
A string of key players lining up to walk away.
Brink of financial melt down. etc.

I can take whatever this is, as for me we are in way better shape than I was expecting.
Pace and VK have worked wonders IMO.
Worst case, we get relegated, no fire sale and win the championship next time by March.

I'm taking the dog out now....

[CoolClaret]

I just wondered why you referenced the budget.

I agree some of the approach has been baffling from the summer.

I feel Kompany deserves time to adapt and learn lessons especially when he's an inexperienced manager.

I referenced the budget because we will never (unless taken over by a billionaire - doubt it) have a top end wage & transfer budget in this league.

So if we want to be able to have any sort of success here, we need a manager that can deliver results on a lower relative budget.

I’m wondering if VK is the man to be able to do that - I’m not so sure.

[taio]

I referenced the budget because we will never (unless taken over by a billionaire - doubt it) have a top end wage & transfer budget in this league.

So if we want to be able to have any sort of success here, we need a manager that can deliver results on a lower relative budget.

I’m wondering if VK is the man to be able to do that - I’m not so sure.

It's understandable you have doubts about Kompany given our struggles this season. I'm inclined to back him because I think he deserves our support after overachieving last season. I also think all managers here would find the Premier League very challenging.

[CoolClaret]

It's understandable you have doubts about Kompany given our struggles this season. I'm inclined to back him because I think he deserves our support after overachieving last season. I also think all managers here would find the Premier League very challenging.

I don’t think sacking him right now is the option but I question his suitability for us long term.

Find it challenging is one thing; putting up historically bad numbers is another.

[Exeterclaret]

Screenshot_20231126-102023.png

I'd hardly say that's dominant more even.

Who's your tinder match?

[taio]

I don’t think sacking him right now is the option but I question his suitability for us long term.

Find it challenging is one thing; putting up historically bad numbers is another.

I suppose if someone doesn't think our will numbers improve they will want him out. I think things can get better.

[forzagranata]

I referenced the budget because we will never (unless taken over by a billionaire - doubt it) have a top end wage & transfer budget in this league.

So if we want to be able to have any sort of success here, we need a manager that can deliver results on a lower relative budget.

I’m wondering if VK is the man to be able to do that - I’m not so sure.

I'm not sure either. But Kompany leaving would be a disaster - it would leave us with a bunch of demoralised players who have all been recruited by him and many of whom specifically said the main reason they joined the club was because of the manager and his reputation. That might just be PR guff but I am not so sure.

Our performances have improved over the last three games. We were 1-0 up against West Ham in the 86th minute. The manner of that defeat was a gut punch and you could see it on VK's face in the interviews afterwards.

I still think VK could use some experienced eyes and ears on the bench, a smart second opinion, from someone who has seen a lot more from the bench than he has. But getting rid of him now would be madness.

[Jakubclaret]

I'd like to see the stats for the first half. A half in which we were the better team and really should have scored a couple.

I’ve said before games last 90mins just slightly over. Them stats covered the full game we might have been the more dominant force in the first 45 but you still have to do something in the 2nd half. Overall the stats suggest it was an even game.

[Lord Beamish]

Nothing good will ever come from rewarding failure.

[claretspice]

My personal view is that (unless there are factors behind the scenes we do not know about) getting rid of Kompany now would be counter productive. This team is heavily invested in Kompany and his structures and I think it's pretty implausible that a change is going to improve matters this season. The important question is what the long term objective is - setting the club up to bounce back following likely relegation whilst remaining financially sound.

Whether Kompany is the right man for that we will know in 6 months time I think. This is doubtless a chastening experience for him and he's going to be learning a lot about himself - this is the first time he's been at the bottom in his career. It can be an experience which improves him as a manager, in which case we might as well take the benefit of the hard lessons learnt.

Undoubtedly (very expensive) mistakes were made in the summer, but whilst Kompany was the front man and presumably driving force for those mistakes, I'm not sure he takes all the blame. I have long been of the view that giving a manager, especially an inexperienced one, total control over affairs is an error and I think the Board have to own the fact that the structure appears to give Kompany exactly that sort of power. Kompany clearly needed an experienced football man pushing back on behalf of the Board on the wisdom of assembling such a callow and ill-balanced squad for a tilt at the Premier League at such great expense and with such turnover of personnel. It might be that the best outcome all round is to redress that imbalance whilst giving VK the opportunity to restore his deserved reputation as a coach and leader of elite potential. That might also set the club up better for the best case scenario that Kompany leaves in a couple of years for bigger prizes.

[beddie]

I’m sure at the beginning of last season if you’d have suggested that we win the championship by a good margin but the following season we struggle and get relegated most fans would have accepted that. Reality arrives and it’s “Kompany out” by many. Let’s say they sack him, whoever comes in isn’t going to get anymore out of the players we have. It’s madness complete madness to talk about sacking him. I despair sometimes. Can I suggest that those who want Kompany out go find something else to do on a Saturday.