Barton

[Florian]

In the news again regarding female commentary in mens games

But i 100% agree with him

[Jjjack]

If your enjoyment of football hinges on whether a male or female voice is commentating I can only recommend therapy.

[Florian]

My enjoyment of live football is better when its commentated on by men only. Thats my point

Sick of this men/women shite
Box ticking at its best

[Jjjack]

Sick of this men/women shite

Then why did you bring it up?

[Florian]

Then why did you bring it up?

1 - Forum
2 - Gather others thoughts
3 - Discussion.
But yet again with this forum the 1st person to reply is a smart arse

[Jjjack]

I see you only wanted to gather the thoughts of those that agree with you, I'll look out for you shushing all the women and girls around you at the next home game.

[CoolClaret]

Barton has made himself look a bit of an arse like. Nothing wrong with women giving commentary or hosting etc

I think there's a fair point about someone doing commentary when they don't have a voice for it though.

I think a screeching male would equally be rather annoying to lsiten to.

Whoever commentated on the Burnley against Sheff United game for MOTD the other day was borderline un-listenable to. Piercing

[tpol]

Oh dear

[Bosscat]

I see the UTC misogynists claws are sharp today

[claretonthecoast1882]

I find it hard to believe there is a female commentator with a voice more annoying than the painstakingly bad Sam Matterface on any channel. His sounds like it is about to break when someone gets within 30 yard of the goal and he comes across dull whenever there is a break in play and he has to fill in some airtime.

[Swizzlestick]

Fair enough if you're not a fan of female commentators/pundits, but he's worded it shockingly and just comes across as an arsehole. He was running his mouth on a podcast last week, describing the a racist murder by his brother as a 'scrap'. Looks like an intentional pivot to getting a gig as yet another grifter on GB News or something after his last sacking. I see he's on Piers Morgan's show tonight, so it seems to be going well for him.

[LDNBFC87]

I see you only wanted to gather the thoughts of those that agree with you, I'll look out for you shushing all the women and girls around you at the next home game.

Mad, isn't it? "I'm sick of it" - so starts a discussion about it on a forum.

[ArmchairDetective]

People with these views often think they're part of a hidden silent majority. The reality is that you're most likely projecting whatever strange and rigid social rules you hold onto other people.

You need to take a serious look at yourself if women working in football bothers you.

[Vincent'sCap]

I would sooner have a woman commentating instead of the over descriptive Peter Drury he turns every commentary into a world shattering event,nothing wrong with women commenting on football.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Wonder if you like listening to Michael Owen….

[FeedTheArf]

To be honest, it was a little weird at first, but that was only because it was different.

Does it really matter whether they're male or female commentators and pundits? Surely it matters more about what is being said than who is saying it?

[StayingDown4Ever]

There are quite a few poor male and female commentators, even more poor co-commentators.

The worst of the lot though is that woman who you hear on Match of the Day. Don’t know her name but she’s awful.

[boatshed bill]

I believe what he has said is that he doesn't think much of female commentators, surely he's entitled to that opinion.

Heres 'a a thought for the future: why not have male commentators, co-commentators and pundits for the men's games, women in those positions for their games? Not just football, the whole lot.

[IanMcL]

I am with Joseph.

Two different games and two different sets of pundits, with their own insights to their game and players they played with.

I like the women commentators when doing women's matches, as they give other interesting info. On men's football, they offer nothing like and vice versa.

[CoolClaret]

Of course when stuff like this comes up people can’t see any nuance and instead gaslight make it a polar divide between being ‘stuck in the 50s’ and ‘women don’t belong in men’s football’

Seriously boring

[Jjjack]

Surely the whole point is football is for everybody. If women want to get involved in the men's game so be it, the same that men are involved in the women's game. Those who turn their backs on football as it continues to open itself up for all are not missed, good riddance.

[TheFamilyCat]

I am with Joseph.

Two different games and two different sets of pundits, with their own insights to their game and players they played with.

I like the women commentators when doing women's matches, as they give other interesting info. On men's football, they offer nothing like and vice versa.

How many of the current England team did Dion Dublin play with?

[TheFamilyCat]

People with these views often think they're part of a hidden silent majority. The reality is that you're most likely projecting whatever strange and rigid social rules you hold onto other people.

You need to take a serious look at yourself if women working in football bothers you.

The not-so-silent silent majority.

[pushpinpussy]

Totally agree with the OP. I hate hearing females comment on football because I know they did not experience the game and thus have no interesting commentary to share from their experiences. Their commentary comes off as very cliche and generic. Its all a tick box exercise and those who say they enjoy listening to them are most defiantly not being authentic.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

For me a lot of it is to do with the timbre and tone of the voice.
I have no problem with the product knowledge or the actual words that are being spoken, the higher frequency of the voice often makes it harder for me to pick out against the background noise. Maybe it’s a medical thing. There is a lady that is quite shrieky that is very uncomfortable, whereas the one who commentates a bit more calmly and just tells you who has the ball (BBC?) is alright.

Surely this is the sound engineers job anyway, to get the levels right.

And then this week with the Amazon games and different commentators it reminded me how it works the other way too. Owen Hargreaves voice is so deep it sounds like he’s in an outside bog, and Efan Ekoku’s voice has the same effect as Valium.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Totally agree with the OP. I hate hearing females comment on football because I know they did not experience the game and thus have no interesting commentary to share from their experiences. Their commentary comes off as very cliche and generic. Its all a tick box exercise and those who say they enjoy listening to them are most defiantly not being authentic.

Which clubs Clive Tyldesley, Sam Matterface, Peter Drury and Jon Champion play for.

[Rowls]

Is it possible to disagree with Barton without having to publicly "disown" him?

I'm sure there are plenty who try and argue it is but they're only showing themselves up to be alt-right far-right neocons and literal Nazis.

I wouldn't quite say that "hanging's too good for him" (mainly because I also very publicly displayed my liberal and intellectual disapproval of this cruel and barbaric act) but I would definitely lock him up and throw away the key. In the most humane way possible.

Nobody should be allowed to have Joey Barton's opinions in the modern world. It's not good enough just to "disagree" with him. After all, how is it even possible to disagree with somebody "politely" when he holds the wrong opinions???? He needs to be castigated, shunned and thrown out of society.

[pushpinpussy]

Which clubs Clive Tyldesley, Sam Matterface, Peter Drury and Jon Champion play for.

i think you need to do your research before commenting

[dsr]

I don't like women commentators, but they're no worse than men commentators who I dislike as well. They should just have one single commentator, male or female I don't care, with no pundits determined to talk as much as they possibly can regardless of having nothing to say.

Though I will say that Gary Neville is worse than any pundit I have ever heard.

[Rowls]

There's just far too much punditry out there and not enough letting the images do the talking for themselves.

One of the reasons why there's so little *good* punditry and so few good pundits is that there should be a whole lot less of it.

Less is more.

[boatshed bill]

Surely the whole point is football is for everybody. If women want to get involved in the men's game so be it, the same that men are involved in the women's game. Those who turn their backs on football as it continues to open itself up for all are not missed, good riddance.

I think that at some point the question has to be "do women improve the experience for male tv/radio users ?"
One may also ask whether men make better commentators for women's football.

[CoolClaret]

Is it possible to disagree with Barton without having to publicly "disown" him?

Sadly isn’t possible now Rowls, it must mean an end to his very existence.

Some strange characters about these days.

It’s also hilarious how this has gotten more outrage nationwide and coverage on Twitter/Press than you know, stuff like Al Qaeda flags being flown in the streets of London during the ‘peaceful’ protests.

Quite mind boggling when you think about it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

i think you need to do your research before commenting

I have
Non of them ever played football professionally

[Jjjack]

I think that at some point the question has to be "do women improve the experience for male tv/radio users ?"
One may also ask whether men make better commentators for women's football.

What about the question do women improve the expirience for female tv/radio users?

[boatshed bill]

What about the question do women improve the expirience for female tv/radio users?

Yes, that could be asked.

But if the answer is a resounding "no" would it stop or discourage the media from employing the women they do now?

[Jjjack]

Yes, that could be asked.

I prefer hearing a rich mix of voices to ensure nobody feels left out of the game, it's the most watched thing on the planet everybody should be able to hear their voice watching it, and see themselves playing it.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

There's just far too much punditry out there and not enough letting the images do the talking for themselves.

One of the reasons why there's so little *good* punditry and so few good pundits is that there should be a whole lot less of it.

Less is more.

And co-commentators! If you just keep wittering on about blindingly obvious things, I can already see that!

If you tell me there’s been a tweak and that the CBs have now split wider to allow the DM to slot to cope with the pace of, say, Richarlison, then you bring me value!

But there aren’t many that do that

[boatshed bill]

I prefer hearing a rich mix of voices to ensure nobody feels left out of the game, it's the most watched thing on the planet everybody should be able to hear their voice watching it, and see themselves playing it.

I prefer to listen to jazz while watching football on the telly

[Bowclaret]

Let’s be honest here. Women’s football is terrible. I would rather have People like Barton and Souness who are honest than the suck ups who say differently - you know the ones - like what they truthfully mean behind the cameras and in front of them.

[Tricky Trevor]

I have nothing against women in sports media but they have taken over in all sports.
There will be a proper term for it, that I don’t know, but to me it is reverse sexism.
Whatever their knowledge most of them are in situ for being hot tottie, tv friendly faces for the masses. Specifically as commentators I have no problem.

[Bosscat]

i think you need to do your research before commenting

Perhaps you should too ... for calling out a poster who asks a perfectly valid question ...

[AlargeClaret]

While Joey B can be a bit of a knob , he’s simply stating how , when co commentating on men’s football women’s voices and delivery can often lead to an almost surreal and frustrating experience. As hosts , presenters etc no issues at all they can excellent , but commentating ….

It’s also slightly odd that we’re led to believe that women’s football isn’t an ultra niche parlour game ,with minimal appeal but an equal . I’m all for women playing , good on them especially at grassroots,but when your product is ultimately miles behind your competitor there’s always gonna be problems .

[CoolClaret]

Tactical analysis is one thing - I think anyone can do that and give their opinion on the game (well, if they know what they're talking about!)

.. it's a little bit different in punditry relaying past experiences to compare/contrast with current situations.
You wouldn't want an ex Non-League player on a Champions League game game would you? That's the point that JB is trying to make, although poorly made.

I do find it bizarre for example having Jill Scott on The Overlap. I respect what she did in her career but it's just not the same nor can be comparable in anyway to G Nev's, Ian Wright's or Roy Keane's for example. That is forced and her inclusion seems extremely unnecessary.

That's not saying that women don't have a role to play - far from it.. but pretending like playing/managing in the WSL is anyway comparable to playing/managing in the Premier League is laughable

[TheFamilyCat]

Tactical analysis is one thing - I think anyone can do that and give their opinion on the game (well, if they know what they're talking about!)

.. it's a little bit different in punditry relaying past experiences to compare/contrast with current situations.
You wouldn't want an ex Non-League player on a Champions League game game would you? That's the point that JB is trying to make, although poorly made.

I do find it bizarre for example having Jill Scott on The Overlap. I respect what she did in her career but it's just not the same nor can be comparable in anyway to G Nev's, Ian Wright's or Roy Keane's for example. That is forced and her inclusion seems extremely unnecessary.

That's not saying that women don't have a role to play - far from it.. but pretending like playing/managing in the WSL is anyway comparable to playing/managing in the Premier League is laughable

Has any female commentator, presenter or pundit ever claimed (or "pretended") that the WSL is comparable to the Premier League?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Tactical analysis is one thing - I think anyone can do that and give their opinion on the game (well, if they know what they're talking about!)

.. it's a little bit different in punditry relaying past experiences to compare/contrast with current situations.
You wouldn't want an ex Non-League player on a Champions League game game would you? That's the point that JB is trying to make, although poorly made.

I do find it bizarre for example having Jill Scott on The Overlap. I respect what she did in her career but it's just not the same nor can be comparable in anyway to G Nev's, Ian Wright's or Roy Keane's for example. That is forced and her inclusion seems extremely unnecessary.

That's not saying that women don't have a role to play - far from it.. but pretending like playing/managing in the WSL is anyway comparable to playing/managing in the Premier League is laughable

I’m not arsed who commentates on the champions league final, we’ve had people doing it who’ve never played in a CL final

We’ve got people commentating on international games despite having never played at that level

It really doesn’t matter
What matters is the quality of the work at the time

We have some really shocking male pundits but they’re getting a free pass by their fellow former pros because they’re male


McManaman trends on twitter whenever he is on the job, because he’s usually awful
In fact the poorer commentators who’re former footballers have never been told by other men within the industry that they should never commentate on the game again

No one within the industry ever comes out and tells Garth Crooks that he’s a dopey wazzock despite the fact we all know he is

[basil6345789]

't job's knackered

[CoolClaret]

Has any female commentator, presenter or pundit ever claimed (or "pretended") that the WSL is comparable to the Premier League?

Let me clarify - my point isn't about the capability of female commentators/analysts.

It's about context and relevance, especially in a show like 'The Overlap' where in some of the shows with the more informal setting, the focus is on sharing their n=1 experiences of playing (and all that goes with it) the highest levels of the game.

Having someone who played in a league that doesn't match the same intensity, interest, or financial stakes is a mismatch to me.

Just like a non-league player or a lower league player would be an odd fit for this setting. However, if there's an episode specifically focusing on non-league, lower league or women's football, then absolutely, that's the perfect platform for such representation.

[CoolClaret]

I’m not arsed who commentates on the champions league final, we’ve had people doing it who’ve never played in a CL final

We’ve got people commentating on international games despite having never played at that level

It really doesn’t matter
What matters is the quality of the work at the time

We have some really shocking male pundits but they’re getting a free pass by their fellow former pros because they’re male


McManaman trends on twitter whenever he is on the job, because he’s usually awful
In fact the poorer commentators who’re former footballers have never been told by other men within the industry that they should never commentate on the game again

No one within the industry ever comes out and tells Garth Crooks that he’s a dopey wazzock despite the fact we all know he is

Commentary is a thing in and of itself - a good pundit doesn't necessarily make a good commentator and vice versa.

If you'd bother actually reading my point I said anyone can commentate and provide analysis on a game of football - just that only a select amount can relay their experience with playing at a certain level and what it entails.

Of course there's some terrible male pundits and they too deserve to be scrutinised. I'm sure there's plenty of brilliant, articulate people with a great knowledge of the tactical side of game, that would give better analysis than most on TV that never played past Sunday League.

Garth Crooks gets plenty of criticism (rightly so) and no one bats an eyelid at those criticising him.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Commentary is a thing in and of itself - a good pundit doesn't necessarily make a good commentator and vice versa.

If you'd bother actually reading my point I said anyone can commentate and provide analysis on a game of football - just that only a select amount can relay their experience with playing at a certain level and what it entails.

Of course there's some terrible male pundits and they too deserve to be scrutinised. I'm sure there's plenty of brilliant, articulate people with a great knowledge of the tactical side of game, that would give better analysis than most on TV that never played past Sunday League.

Garth Crooks gets plenty of criticism (rightly so) and no one bats an eyelid at those criticising him.

If you read my post you’d know I said no one within the industry highlights what a wazzock Crooks is

Women who’ve played at the highest level of their game can relay their experience because it’s relevant

They’ll experience the same emotions etc as the men
They’ll have the same idea of pre match routines
They have to work hard to reach that level

The issue isn’t the women, it never usually is

[daveisaclaret]

He's got a lot of attention for this but it's not anything new - if you want to see more just search Google for Joey Barton attacks women