Guy on Social media calling out Academy

[Westleigh]

Don’t know if it’s true or not but some guy (Admittedly TikTok)rating all the Football League and Premier League teams is saying that we are the worst of all The Premier League teams and 57 th in the country in producing players ,and strangely enough the 3 next worst are Forest,Luton,and Bournemouth seems strange that the teams towards the bottom have least success with homegrown players.

[Quickenthetempo]

We never risked any academy youngsters in the championship, it would virtually be impossible for any of them to make it while in the prem.

[claptrappers_union]

Won't lose sleep over that

[Inchy]

Our academy production has been terrible over the years.

In the north west we are right down the pecking order. Although rovers are absolutely shite in most ways, they have a history of bringing through youth better than us and therefore parents will choose there.

I don’t blame anyone for this it’s just a fact. We can basically get the scraps from the top academies and hope to find a gem

[claptrappers_union]

Our Academy is relatively new considering the upgrade to Gawthorpe and so on. It won't bear fruit probably for another 5 years. Though we are producing more players moving on to football league clubs now.

[Westleigh]

Our academy production has been terrible over the years.

In the north west we are right down the pecking order. Although rovers are absolutely shite in most ways, they have a history of bringing through youth better than us and therefore parents will choose there.

I don’t blame anyone for this it’s just a fact. We can basically get the scraps from the top academies and hope to find a gem

Rovers always seem to get loads of kids coming through ,like you say it must be their history and parents having a big say ,or why would a young kid have gone to Ewood when they were a league 1 team.

[JBR]

I’m more interested in what the first team are doing

[South West Claret.]

Sadly gone are the days when Burnley’s much admired Youth policy (admired by the bigger clubs I might add) was very much envied and produced most of the first team player’s in the late 50’s and 60’s.

Burnley were pretty much unique in that area, with scouts in the North East and Northern Ireland being their prime area’s discovery

[Westleigh]

Sadly gone are the days when Burnley’s much admired Youth policy (admired by the bigger clubs I might add) was very much envied and produced most of the first team player’s in the late 50’s and 60’s.

Burnley were pretty much unique in that area, with scouts in the North East and Northern Ireland being their prime area’s discovery

I seem to remember us sending either a youth or reserve team to play Newcastle and every lad was from the NE .

[Tricky Trevor]

The top 10 snaffle all the top talent leaving the also rans for the rest. Occasionally one comes through to play PL but very few outside the top 10 do it consistently.
A while back Southampton had a wonderful run of talent coming through including Walcott and Bale but that’s a rarity.

[boatshed bill]

Anyone know why he was having a dig?

[Westleigh]

Anyone know why he was having a dig?

Sorry,do you mean the guy on Social Media?

[boatshed bill]

Sorry,do you mean the guy on Social Media?

Yes, I wonder if there was any background to the story.

[Westleigh]

Yes, I wonder if there was any background to the story.

Just looking in TiK Tok and this guy had posted a video picking out the least productive clubs for producing talent he started with the 4th worst and finished up with Burnley ,didn’t make any criticism he just posted it as a fact.

[aggi]

If your plan is buying lots of relatively expensive youngsters then obviously it's going to be difficult for homegrown youngsters to get minutes.

I hope they're including Rodriguez though ...

[Westleigh]

If your plan is buying lots of relatively expensive youngsters then obviously it's going to be difficult for homegrown youngsters to get minutes.

I hope they're including Rodriguez though ...

Don’t think he was going back that far.

[Goliath]

Its quite frustrating that we dont seem to have made any in roads on Blackburn at all even with the increased status, finances and facilities in the last 10 years.
Last time i saw them against Norwich Adam Wharton absolutely ran the show, i imagine he will go far. They also had his brother at centre half, dolan upfront who the commentators said use to play for us and they sold Ashley phillips to Spurs in Summer.
Thats a hell of a record and shows theres talent around if we can get our setup right.

It also proves the value of having a cat 1 setup, costs them a fortune but without it theyd probably be in league one by now.

[Woodleyclaret]

Sean for all his good works never trusted our players coming through to play any meaningful time in first team games.

[Claretforever]

Is the reason Blackburn have brought more through related to their academy being better established, as well as not having serious funds to buy players nowadays? Yes, they have a random year where they spend on one big player now, such as Brereton or Gallagher, but it’s not consistent so they have to find, and try, youth players.

Blackburn had no serious transfer money in League One (yes, they spent big on wages v the rest), and have been set firmly in the middle of the Championship for a few years.

We’ve been in a strange place really, either fighting relegation so couldn’t try them, and we know Dyche didn’t trust much beyond his favoured eleven (fan pressure got McNeil a game), or chasing promotion having brought so many players in.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Sean for all his good works never trusted our players coming through to play any meaningful time in first team games.

Ignoring one who we recently sold for 20m, I bet you can't name any youth players that should have been playing for the 1st team in his time with us over the players that were.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Sean for all his good works never trusted our players coming through to play any meaningful time in first team games.

For all he gets slated for developing young talent, hasn’t he been the last manager to sell any development players for profit.

Let’s not forget there’s Dunne, Benson, McNeil just to name a few. He also set the path for the likes of Michael Mellon to come through

[GetIntoEm]

dont think hes having a dig, just telling the truth

our academy production has been nothing short of pants

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Only a tiny % of academy players become pro footballers
Even less break into the first team the higher up you go

Yes we may not be producing many for our team, but if we can sell them on like the other clubs do then that’s fine for now

[jedi_master]

Surely this is just driven by the positions our club has been in? We've either been in the Premier League fighting relegation (or working hard to ensure safety, in any case) or fighting for promotion essentially for the last decade. Our own success has meant we have been unable to take the risks that clubs with largely nothing to play for (such as Blackburn Rovers) due to their own inadequacies on the pitch have done.

We have still managed to bring through, and then sell on (despite barely any bar McNeil playing in the first team to any level of note):

Dwight McNeil - £15m-£20m
Bobby Thomas - £2m
Josh Benson - £1m
Jimmy Dunne - £Undisclosed
Mark Helm - £Undisclosed
Max Thompson - £Undisclosed
Jacob Bedeau - £Undisclosed
Adam Phillips - £Undisclosed
Luke Hendrie - £Undisclosed
Renny Smith - £Undisclosed
Cameron Dummigan - £Undisclosed

That's only in the last seven years and probably represents roughly a £25m profit on a group of players who essentially cost us nothing and gave us nothing at first team level (again, barring McNeil).

We now have the likes of Dara Costelloe, Owen Dodgson, Marcel Lewis and Benn Ward all out on loan playing football and likely to probably result in us making some money on them if they prove to not quite be good enough for Burnley. On top of that, we have Michael Mellon who is scoring for fun (13 in 22 for Morecambe) who may well get a chance in our first team next season should we be relegated (and if not, again, is certainly proving himself as someone capable of making us a fairly significant sum of money).

I confess to not knowing the in's and out's of the youth system to a huge level (and I appreciate some of the names mentioned, in fact most of them, are pick ups from other academies) but I would be surprised if we are massively behind the curve on transfer revenue in comparison to our peers from the youth system in the recent past, especially when you consider the reasons why we have not had the opportunity to play many of them in our first team.

[clarets1978]

Its quite frustrating that we dont seem to have made any in roads on Blackburn at all even with the increased status, finances and facilities in the last 10 years.
Last time i saw them against Norwich Adam Wharton absolutely ran the show, i imagine he will go far. They also had his brother at centre half, dolan upfront who the commentators said use to play for us and they sold Ashley phillips to Spurs in Summer.
Thats a hell of a record and shows theres talent around if we can get our setup right.

It also proves the value of having a cat 1 setup, costs them a fortune but without it theyd probably be in league one by now.

Tyrhs Dolan was at Preston before he signed for Rovers just a couple of years ago and certainly didnt come through their academy. I know a Preston who complains that they didnt do enough to keep him when he left.

I think we shouldnt lose sight of the fact our academy was downgraded out of the Premier League setup and haven't really made any attempt to regain that status. We arent going to be getting better youngsters than Blackburn when they have a better academy status

[MT03ALG]

Was it Stan Ternent who suggested the scrapping of the Academy ?

[Goliath]

Surely this is just driven by the positions our club has been in? We've either been in the Premier League fighting relegation (or working hard to ensure safety, in any case) or fighting for promotion essentially for the last decade. Our own success has meant we have been unable to take the risks that clubs with largely nothing to play for (such as Blackburn Rovers) due to their own inadequacies on the pitch have done.

We have still managed to bring through, and then sell on (despite barely any bar McNeil playing in the first team to any level of note):

Dwight McNeil - £15m-£20m
Bobby Thomas - £2m
Josh Benson - £1m
Jimmy Dunne - £Undisclosed
Mark Helm - £Undisclosed
Max Thompson - £Undisclosed
Jacob Bedeau - £Undisclosed
Adam Phillips - £Undisclosed
Luke Hendrie - £Undisclosed
Renny Smith - £Undisclosed
Cameron Dummigan - £Undisclosed

That's only in the last seven years and probably represents roughly a £25m profit on a group of players who essentially cost us nothing and gave us nothing at first team level (again, barring McNeil).

We now have the likes of Dara Costelloe, Owen Dodgson, Marcel Lewis and Benn Ward all out on loan playing football and likely to probably result in us making some money on them if they prove to not quite be good enough for Burnley. On top of that, we have Michael Mellon who is scoring for fun (13 in 22 for Morecambe) who may well get a chance in our first team next season should we be relegated (and if not, again, is certainly proving himself as someone capable of making us a fairly significant sum of money).

I confess to not knowing the in's and out's of the youth system to a huge level (and I appreciate some of the names mentioned, in fact most of them, are pick ups from other academies) but I would be surprised if we are massively behind the curve on transfer revenue in comparison to our peers from the youth system in the recent past, especially when you consider the reasons why we have not had the opportunity to play many of them in our first team.

This is completely dependent on including Mcneil, which is pretty debatable as we signed him from Utd at about 16.

[Goliath]

Tyrhs Dolan was at Preston before he signed for Rovers just a couple of years ago and certainly didnt come through their academy. I know a Preston who complains that they didnt do enough to keep him when he left.

I think we shouldnt lose sight of the fact our academy was downgraded out of the Premier League setup and haven't really made any attempt to regain that status. We arent going to be getting better youngsters than Blackburn when they have a better academy status

Didnt Preston sign him from our academy? Thats the impression the sky commentator gave

[jedi_master]

This is completely dependent on including Mcneil, which is pretty debatable as we signed him from Utd at about 16.

Yeah it clearly is, but that shouldn't be disregarded. Blackburn are being held up as an exemplary example against us when in the same time period they have sold two players from their academy for anything remotely decent (Ash Phillips and David Raya for £3m each). They have a load of youth players in their team at the moment because they're brassic and have had to rely on them stepping up. Of these only Adam Wharton looks remotely good enough to progress beyond the Championship (the likes of Travis, Rankin-Costello etc are mid table plodders at best).

Merely saying that whilst our output is clearly not great it has given us a competitive figure in return compared to the example of Blackburn. Not disputing that there is plenty of work to do in terms of getting players that actually help US as opposed to merely being small sales that top up funding our wage bill.

[Quickenthetempo]

Yeah it clearly is, but that shouldn't be disregarded. Blackburn are being held up as an exemplary example against us when in the same time period they have sold two players from their academy for anything remotely decent (Ash Phillips and David Raya for £3m each). They have a load of youth players in their team at the moment because they're brassic and have had to rely on them stepping up. Of these only Adam Wharton looks remotely good enough to progress beyond the Championship (the likes of Travis, Rankin-Costello etc are mid table plodders at best).

Merely saying that whilst our output is clearly not great it has given us a competitive figure in return compared to the example of Blackburn. Not disputing that there is plenty of work to do in terms of getting players that actually help US as opposed to merely being small sales that top up funding our wage bill.

How did they get Reya in their Academy? He's Spanish isn't he? I thought you had to live within an hour of the Academy?

Or is it another case of moving the family over and putting the player in the posh school in Clitheroe?

[Goliath]

Mid table plodders in the Championship tend to be worth at least a few million, we dont even create those consistently.
Theyve also had Phil Jones, Martin Olsen, Frank Fielding, Ryan Nyambe going back a few more years.
Im sure theres more that go on to play for league clubs that we havent even mentioned.

[Andingle]

Didnt Preston sign him from our academy? Thats the impression the sky commentator gave

No , Tyrhs Dolan was at Burnley as an U8 till Man.City bought him at U12s , City didn't offer him a scholarship and he went to PNE as a Scholar but they didn't offer him a Pro and he was signed as a Pro by Bburn at 18.
Dwight McNeil came into Burnley as an U14 after being released by Man.Utd's Academy.

[Spike]

Have we made any efforts at all to get back to the top rating for the Academy?
If we have it’s not been broadcasted. Maybe a job for JJ

[Goliath]

No , Tyrhs Dolan was at Burnley as an U8 till Man.City bought him at U12s , City didn't offer him a scholarship and he went to PNE as a Scholar but they didn't offer him a Pro and he was signed as a Pro by Bburn at 18.
Dwight McNeil came into Burnley as an U14 after being released by Man.Utd's Academy.

Ah ok so we sold him to City basically. What fee do we get at that age? Im guessing we dont really have a choice at that point.

[ClaretTony]

Have we made any efforts at all to get back to the top rating for the Academy?
If we have it’s not been broadcasted. Maybe a job for JJ

When we lost Cat 1, we said we would be pushing to return, but we did not apply for this season.

[elwaclaret]

When we lost Cat 1, we said we would be pushing to return, but we did not apply for this season.

It seems strange a business model based on developing players to sell on don’t see more importance of bringing through their own talent rather than paying multiple millions for players half baked by another club. Surely having them under the manager’s while they develop is more profitable than having to retrain established players on massive wages. As I say, seems odd to me.

[Nori1958]

It seems strange a business model based on developing players to sell on don’t see more importance of bringing through their own talent rather than paying multiple millions for players half baked by another club. Surely having them under the manager’s while they develop is more profitable than having to retrain established players on massive wages. As I say, seems odd to me.

It's a good model... But a long term one... Can any owner wait ten years for the young kid signed now, before making any money on them?

[NewClaret]

Have we made any efforts at all to get back to the top rating for the Academy?
If we have it’s not been broadcasted. Maybe a job for JJ

No information on this, but my guess is that we’ve given up, possibly due to cost and new manager with an alternative strategy.

I read it’s £2m per season to maintain Cat one status.

I’d love us to have a top class academy but in reality how many create a steady stream of first team talent? Or even talent that you can sell on to fund it?

[elwaclaret]

It's a good model... But a long term one... Can any owner wait ten years for the young kid signed now, before making any money on them?

Good point, but I’ve heard many a time of the club’s owners long term strategy. Ten years is not that long term in strategic terms (ask Putin), and by not prioritising it now, that ten years will always be ten years +

[Westleigh]

No information on this, but my guess is that we’ve given up, possibly due to cost and new manager with an alternative strategy.

I read it’s £2m per season to maintain Cat one status.

I’d love us to have a top class academy but in reality how many create a steady stream of first team talent? Or even talent that you can sell on to fund it?

£2 mill is a drop in the ocean selling one player to a league 1 club would cover that.

[Nori1958]

Good point, but I’ve heard many a time of the club’s owners long term strategy. Ten years is not that long term in strategic terms (ask Putin), and by not prioritising it now, that ten years will always be ten years +

It's also not been prioritised by previous owners. City are making profits on youngsters who've never played in the 1st team.... I doubt anyone would pay big money for an untried burnley youngster. I'd love to see players coming through the youth set up, I remember us winning the youth cup, but unfortunately those days are gone.

[elwaclaret]

It's also not been prioritised by previous owners. City are making profits on youngsters who've never played in the 1st team.... I doubt anyone would pay big money for an untried burnley youngster. I'd love to see players coming through the youth set up, I remember us winning the youth cup, but unfortunately those days are gone.

I see no reason whatsoever Burnley could not aim to have the reputation it always had prior to two/several dismantlings of our youth set up… in fact I would consider it worth looking into. Burnley built its very sole on being the best place to learn football and they have a manager in the building that would be one of the best in the world to make it happen.

[Nori1958]

I see no reason whatsoever Burnley could not aim to have the reputation it always had prior to two/several dismantlings of our youth set up… in fact I would consider it worth looking into. Burnley built its very sole on being the best place to learn football and they have a manager in the building that would be one of the best in the world to make it happen.

I think it's a difficult sell to get 1st team managers involved with the youth set up. Most of them know they won't be around long enough to gain any benefit from it.

[NewClaret]

£2 mill is a drop in the ocean selling one player to a league 1 club would cover that.

How many league one clubs pay £2M for a player?

Championship clubs barely spend more than £500k these days (unless benefiting from parachute payments/big money player sales).

[elwaclaret]

I think it's a difficult sell to get 1st team managers involved with the youth set up. Most of them know they won't be around long enough to gain any benefit from it.

I don’t necessarily think VK would be any more reticent than SD was about overseeing the Gawthorpe upgrade. There was always a danger with Dyche’s star on the rise as it was for most of his time with us. VK believes in his system, his system would benefit from a conveyer belt of seventeen year old’s coming through who play his style instinctively, already.

[claretonthecoast1882]

£2 mill is a drop in the ocean selling one player to a league 1 club would cover that.

I would be very surprised if any league 1 club paid 500k for a player this summer, certainly no club ion that league is paying 2m for anyone let alone an academy product with virtually no league experience

[Spike]

I would be very surprised if any league 1 club paid 500k for a player this summer, certainly no club ion that league is paying 2m for anyone let alone an academy product with virtually no league experience

Not even for an electric player full of ions?

[Westleigh]

How many league one clubs pay £2M for a player?

Championship clubs barely spend more than £500k these days (unless benefiting from parachute payments/big money player sales).

Had a quick scroll through and found 3 so far in League 1

[claretonthecoast1882]

Had a quick scroll through and found 3 so far in League 1

3 players cost over 2m each in league 1 ? Who were these ?

[Benson]

Had a quick scroll through and found 3 so far in League 1

According to Transfermarket the combined transfer expenditure of all the League 1 clubs so far this season is £980,000.