Nathan Redmond
-
- Posts: 7179
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:33 pm
- Been Liked: 3606 times
- Has Liked: 1033 times
- Location: Chesterfield
Nathan Redmond
A random thread but it's a thought I have had for weeks now and he just never seems to even be mentioned on here to have the discussion.
Is it just me that is confused as to why Redmond has been utterly uninvolved this season barring sub appearances when the game is already lost? We have such a chronic lack of experience and discipline in our team and it would seem (to me) logical that a player with 250-ish games at this level and can play across the front line and wide would be an obvious selection?
I realise he hasn't done an awful lot in the very few opportunities we have had to see him (though he looked bright when he came on against Sheff Utd) but he's not had a chance. Larsen has been OK in some games and poor in others, Tresor has offered nothing and Odobert, whilst exciting, is surely too physically lacking to be a consistent choice at this stage. With JBG getting older and Koleosho injured I continue to be utterly perplexed as to Redmond not getting a chance.
I would personally be getting him straight into the side - probably in place of Amdouni.
Is it just me that is confused as to why Redmond has been utterly uninvolved this season barring sub appearances when the game is already lost? We have such a chronic lack of experience and discipline in our team and it would seem (to me) logical that a player with 250-ish games at this level and can play across the front line and wide would be an obvious selection?
I realise he hasn't done an awful lot in the very few opportunities we have had to see him (though he looked bright when he came on against Sheff Utd) but he's not had a chance. Larsen has been OK in some games and poor in others, Tresor has offered nothing and Odobert, whilst exciting, is surely too physically lacking to be a consistent choice at this stage. With JBG getting older and Koleosho injured I continue to be utterly perplexed as to Redmond not getting a chance.
I would personally be getting him straight into the side - probably in place of Amdouni.
These 3 users liked this post: Murger randomclaret2 bfcjg
Re: Nathan Redmond
Totally agree. His lack of game time is yet another puzzling aspect of what’s going on. Amdouni is offering nothing at the minute.
-
- Posts: 6906
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:04 pm
- Been Liked: 2758 times
- Has Liked: 4325 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Its a side crying out for Premier League experience and he is one of few who has plenty of it..Another of VK's many baffling decisions this season.
-
- Posts: 7466
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2258 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
No resale value = limited game time.
These 3 users liked this post: bfcjg Murger randomclaret2
Re: Nathan Redmond
I’d certainly like to see him starting. Maybe in place of Amdouni.
-
- Posts: 6906
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:04 pm
- Been Liked: 2758 times
- Has Liked: 4325 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Im beginning to think that is all that matters this season
This user liked this post: bfcjg
Re: Nathan Redmond
This !!!!!!!!!randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:17 amIm beginning to think that is all that matters this season
Re: Nathan Redmond
Agree that he with his experience should get ahead of kids like Odobert Koleosho and inexperienced Bruun Larsen. On the other hand we don't see them training so who knows how they perform outside of the games.
Benching Amdouni would be insane.
Benching Amdouni would be insane.
This user liked this post: Darnhill Claret
Re: Nathan Redmond
Why? Looks a luxury player in a time when we need experience and a bit of grit.
-
- Posts: 6696
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
- Been Liked: 1705 times
- Has Liked: 791 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Despite losing at HT in a number of games, the subs are coming on later and later, squeezing the time the fringe players like Redmond, Tresor have to show what they can offer. Our game against Everton was lost by half time, so Benson and Tresor come on with 3 or 4 minutes to go. Amdouini is a very talented player but missing Foster. The two together are our only hope of the goals re-appearing. I think with Foster having been out injured, Amdouini has been kept on as he still is the most consistent for creating goal opportunities
By contrast VK was making key changes at HT last season
By contrast VK was making key changes at HT last season
-
- Posts: 6906
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:04 pm
- Been Liked: 2758 times
- Has Liked: 4325 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
His decisions seem increasingly bafflingwarksclaret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:40 amDespite losing at HT in a number of games, the subs are coming on later and later, squeezing the time the fringe players like Redmond, Tresor have to show what they can offer. Our game against Everton was lost by half time, so Benson and Tresor come on with 3 or 4 minutes to go. Amdouini is a very talented player but missing Foster. The two together are our only hope of the goals re-appearing. I think with Foster having been out injured, Amdouini has been kept on as he still is the most consistent for creating goal opportunities
By contrast VK was making key changes at HT last season
Re: Nathan Redmond
Agreed on this. If I remember correctly it was Amdouni that VK was most excited to sign and he seems to ooze class.
These 2 users liked this post: Darnhill Claret whiffa
Re: Nathan Redmond
I think he works hard on top of being technically gifted. One of our best players for me.
I'm not sure luxury is the right word. I heard the same being said about Tresor. For me these are creative players that can make something out of nothing. I agree you need a bit of grit but not from your playmaker or your winger.
In that view Messi is a luxury player too?
Re: Nathan Redmond
We seem to have quite a few players at the moment who are capable of beating a couple of men then no end product Koleosho and Odebert are a bit like Gnacchio (?) they’re quicker than the rest of the team they get level with the penalty area and there’s no one quick enough to keep up,as a result the crosses finish up goin to a defender.
Re: Nathan Redmond
This isnt a difficult one at all. He plays from the left, our most exciting players have been Koleosho and Odobert. Redmond has always been a bang average player at this level.
This user liked this post: Woodleyclaret
-
- Posts: 6978
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
- Been Liked: 1490 times
- Has Liked: 1848 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Amdouni is a class player who needs a striker to play off but has quality
Redmond seemed a strange signing and to use him instead of Zaroury is a complete mystery as he offers very little.
Redmond seemed a strange signing and to use him instead of Zaroury is a complete mystery as he offers very little.
-
- Posts: 13518
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
- Been Liked: 3115 times
- Has Liked: 3836 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
One of the problems with having a strong bench is that the players on it always seem better than the ones on the pitch.
-
- Posts: 7466
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2258 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
-
- Posts: 6906
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:04 pm
- Been Liked: 2758 times
- Has Liked: 4325 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Oh for a few bang average players at this level
These 2 users liked this post: Wo Didi Taffy on the wing
-
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
- Been Liked: 745 times
- Has Liked: 463 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Legitimately check stats like FBref.
Amdouni is a very effective high presser and tackler in the attacking third, not as effective in the defensive third, decent in midfield, but he works hard and is one of our only players able to press high.
He has fantastic dribbling and chance creation output from dribbles.
Amdouni is not the luxury he's just not effective with Jay besides him because Jay is far too slow and unproductive in possession. Amdouni averages ten times as many dribbles per game as Jay, he makes more passes, completes more passes, completes more as a percentage of his total passes, across all pass ranges and on top of this his passes are significantly more progressive. He's one of the only players who tries to get us at goal and make things happen. Jay is less accurate and more reserved in his play he genuinely doesn't offer anything besides height at defending set pieces and a block/tackle from the followup. He's too slow to pull players away with a run. He's regularly offside. Our attacking duo is 1 man.
Redmond, Larsen, Zaroury, literally anybody with mobility and the ability to pass or dribble ought to have been paired with Amdouni the last few games he can't impact the game as much as we'd like because he hasn't got a partner who can pull defenders away from him to create room for his dribbles to do more damage, hasn't got a partner who is going to scare players when he has the ball at his feet so they take their eyes off him, hasn't got a partner who can pick a pass or create a chance.
I'd love to see more of Redmond but for whatever reason it isn't happening. My instinct is "too old to appreciate in value for the all important Model by playing" but then we start Jay whos completely spent.
This user liked this post: Wo Didi
-
- Posts: 557
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:43 am
- Been Liked: 229 times
- Has Liked: 137 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
VK & coaching staff are professionals & see them every day in training, end of debate.
-
- Posts: 3095
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
- Been Liked: 710 times
- Has Liked: 619 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
It really wouldn't - he's played pretty much all the time available this season and has probably had less than 90 mins all told where you even notice he's there.
I'm with Jedi here. I can't believe that Redmond isn't starting - why the hell did we sign him if not to play him ?
-
- Posts: 2114
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:23 pm
- Been Liked: 1164 times
- Has Liked: 94 times
- Location: your mum
Re: Nathan Redmond
He must train really, really well if VK & coaching staff think he can come on after 87 or 89 minutes and contribute.Stockbrokerbelt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:29 amVK & coaching staff are professionals & see them every day in training, end of debate.
These 4 users liked this post: elwaclaret nil_desperandum Cirrus_Minor Wo Didi
-
- Posts: 3095
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
- Been Liked: 710 times
- Has Liked: 619 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Interesting stats fro. Spt there which belies my o.pression of Amdouni. I think he's got good feet and yet there is too often little end product. Accept same for Jay as well though but we knew that would be likely before we started. I'd like to see Obafemi more too because again - why did we sign him if not for this season (we didn't need him last seaaon)
-
- Posts: 5378
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
- Been Liked: 1655 times
- Has Liked: 404 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Redmond is a very clever player which you would expect from someone with an England cap, akin to Jay.
Nearly setting up a smash and grab winner at Brighton sums him up.
I find it baffling why he isn’t on regularly on 65 minutes to expose tiring defences. If we bring on Redmond, Foster and Benson that would seem to me to be a dynamic change three quarters of the way through a game, probably the biggest weakness on Vinny so far is his reluctance to do this, while tinkering with other things that don’t warrant it (I don’t mean those three specifically all season - I know injuries etc haven’t helped).
As for Amdouni - very good player, gets a shot on target in every game, a sign of class, needs to figure out how to get more goals at this level but his record elsewhere is top quality.
Nearly setting up a smash and grab winner at Brighton sums him up.
I find it baffling why he isn’t on regularly on 65 minutes to expose tiring defences. If we bring on Redmond, Foster and Benson that would seem to me to be a dynamic change three quarters of the way through a game, probably the biggest weakness on Vinny so far is his reluctance to do this, while tinkering with other things that don’t warrant it (I don’t mean those three specifically all season - I know injuries etc haven’t helped).
As for Amdouni - very good player, gets a shot on target in every game, a sign of class, needs to figure out how to get more goals at this level but his record elsewhere is top quality.
These 4 users liked this post: Anthonini nil_desperandum Woodleyclaret Wo Didi
-
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
- Been Liked: 745 times
- Has Liked: 463 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Appeal to authority non-argument.Stockbrokerbelt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:29 amVK & coaching staff are professionals & see them every day in training, end of debate.
By that logic literally nobody should ever offer an opinion on anything to do with football, good or bad, unless they're not just a pro but in the exact same coaching setup as the player in question.
People make mistakes and people aren't infallible. Especially when it comes to analysing and interpreting limited or subjective data- football analysis involves some subjective data, and the objective data is limited compared to other sports which is why bespoke metrics have had to be developed.
Also when there's pressures beyond just football at play- as we keep hearing about the model- or potential vested/secondary interests these can skew judgements even subconsciously.
Or in other words - just because Kompany is manager doesn't mean every single thing he does or says is right. Wasn't under Dyche, isn't under Pep, wasn't under Ferguson, Clough, Mourinho or anyone.
This user liked this post: Wo Didi
-
- Posts: 7466
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2258 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
By the same logic we can’t criticise refereeing decisions/quality of officiating in the Country.spt_claret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:57 amAppeal to authority non-argument.
By that logic literally nobody should ever offer an opinion on anything to do with football, good or bad, unless they're not just a pro but in the exact same coaching setup as the player in question.
People make mistakes and people aren't infallible. Especially when it comes to analysing and interpreting limited or subjective data- football analysis involves some subjective data, and the objective data is limited compared to other sports which is why bespoke metrics have had to be developed.
Also when there's pressures beyond just football at play- as we keep hearing about the model- or potential vested/secondary interests these can skew judgements even subconsciously.
Or in other words - just because Kompany is manager doesn't mean every single thing he does or says is right. Wasn't under Dyche, isn't under Pep, wasn't under Ferguson, Clough, Mourinho or anyone.
It’s a logical fallacy - would at least have some ground to stand on if VK wasn’t on track to have a worse 18 PL games than Brian Laws like.
Re: Nathan Redmond
We have better players than him...the team might not be functioning well but as individuals Koleosho and Odboert have offered more and thats why theyve played. Im surprised hes ahead of zaroury tbh
This user liked this post: Woodleyclaret
-
- Posts: 67902
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32546 times
- Has Liked: 5279 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Nathan Redmond
Can't for the life of me understand Redmond's lack of involvement
This user liked this post: Wo Didi
-
- Posts: 9000
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:57 am
- Been Liked: 2015 times
- Has Liked: 2914 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
I can only think VK was looking to have an experienced vein if not spine to the team, and when he missed out on his targets decided to go another way. January will be one of the most interesting in years, it should make clear if the club are going to dust themselves off and have another go at getting back up next season, or if they are going to add experience and guile and give it a real go at staying up.
Re: Nathan Redmond
The mysteries of a VL thought pattern.
Re: Nathan Redmond
Should have more game time. Looked good to me when he’s come in. Don’t think the window will be that interesting at all. If we are accepting relegation limply already which looks the case we should have a quiet one pending the sales in Summer.
Re: Nathan Redmond
Nathan Redmond is a player who always seemed to play well against us and still has a lot to offer.
In our current predicament we need experience not potential. Waste of time even debating it though, the stubborn one with the big ego isn’t going to change course any time soon.
Let’s just carry on with these kids with potential and keep rolling over and getting our bellies tickled every week.
I’m seriously debating if I should waste a day driving up on Boxing Day to see another soft capitulation or stay at home drinking some nice craft beers. My wife wants to see Mo Salah though so I will probably have to sit and endure another couple of hours of this pointless experiment of Vincent Kompany’s.
In our current predicament we need experience not potential. Waste of time even debating it though, the stubborn one with the big ego isn’t going to change course any time soon.
Let’s just carry on with these kids with potential and keep rolling over and getting our bellies tickled every week.
I’m seriously debating if I should waste a day driving up on Boxing Day to see another soft capitulation or stay at home drinking some nice craft beers. My wife wants to see Mo Salah though so I will probably have to sit and endure another couple of hours of this pointless experiment of Vincent Kompany’s.
-
- Posts: 10918
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
- Been Liked: 5563 times
- Has Liked: 208 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
Send your wife to the game, stay at home drink beer, don't watch the game. Seems like the obvious solution.Jamesy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:33 pmNathan Redmond is a player who always seemed to play well against us and still has a lot to offer.
In our current predicament we need experience not potential. Waste of time even debating it though, the stubborn one with the big ego isn’t going to change course any time soon.
Let’s just carry on with these kids with potential and keep rolling over and getting our bellies tickled every week.
I’m seriously debating if I should waste a day driving up on Boxing Day to see another soft capitulation or stay at home drinking some nice craft beers. My wife wants to see Mo Salah though so I will probably have to sit and endure another couple of hours of this pointless experiment of Vincent Kompany’s.
Re: Nathan Redmond
Surely what we need now is end product, goals and assists. Redmond doesn't particularly offer that at this level and he's proven it over many years. Hes past his peak now so we can only expect his output to be even less than it was at Southampton most seasons. If we have JBG or JBL on one side, we don't need Redmond on the other. Thats too safe and when we are so many points behind, being too safe wont get us enough pointsJamesy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:33 pmNathan Redmond is a player who always seemed to play well against us and still has a lot to offer.
In our current predicament we need experience not potential. Waste of time even debating it though, the stubborn one with the big ego isn’t going to change course any time soon.
Let’s just carry on with these kids with potential and keep rolling over and getting our bellies tickled every week.
I’m seriously debating if I should waste a day driving up on Boxing Day to see another soft capitulation or stay at home drinking some nice craft beers. My wife wants to see Mo Salah though so I will probably have to sit and endure another couple of hours of this pointless experiment of Vincent Kompany’s.
Re: Nathan Redmond
Your 1st point - nobody else is offering any end product either. And to say he’s past his peak at 29 is laughable.Goliath wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:42 pmSurely what we need now is end product, goals and assists. Redmond doesn't particularly offer that at this level and he's proven it over many years. Hes past his peak now so we can only expect his output to be even less than it was at Southampton most seasons. If we have JBG or JBL on one side, we don't need Redmond on the other. Thats too safe and when we are so many points behind, being too safe wont get us enough points
Your 2nd point - to say he’s past his peak and then mention JBG is again laughable.
These 3 users liked this post: Jamesy StayingDown4Ever Wo Didi
-
- Posts: 4751
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
- Been Liked: 953 times
- Has Liked: 238 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
He was out injured for a while, but I agree that he should be getting more game time now he's fully fit.
Re: Nathan Redmond
Odobert has offered the most end product so far along with Brun Laarsen, both with a couple of goals. Redmond has offered naf all statistically.
I mentioned JBG because hes been playing on the right as a sort of defensive winger. I think it was pretty clear that my point was that we don't need another of those on the other wing. If he was to replace JBG on the right then fine, but i think that would be a downgrade defensively and wouldn't offer much more going forwards.
The only way i can see Redmond starting regularly is if VK decides he wants Benson on the right, then he may decide to balance that out with the experience of Redmond on the left
Re: Nathan Redmond
I’m waiting to see if my daughter wants my ticket and fancies driving her up north! I have had some bad times in the 56 years I have been watching Burnley, however this season is the worst because I know we could be competing a lot better if only Kompany would change his mindset.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:39 pmSend your wife to the game, stay at home drink beer, don't watch the game. Seems like the obvious solution.
It doesn’t have to be like this!
Re: Nathan Redmond
I think Redmond could do a job at Right Back.Goliath wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:53 pmOdobert has offered the most end product so far along with Brun Laarsen, both with a couple of goals. Redmond has offered naf all statistically.
I mentioned JBG because hes been playing on the right as a sort of defensive winger. I think it was pretty clear that my point was that we don't need another of those on the other wing. If he was to replace JBG on the right then fine, but i think that would be a downgrade defensively and wouldn't offer much more going forwards.
The only way i can see Redmond starting regularly is if VK decides he wants Benson on the right, then he may decide to balance that out with the experience of Redmond on the left
Re: Nathan Redmond
They’ve offered more because they’ve had more than fleeting 2 minute appearances.Goliath wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:53 pmOdobert has offered the most end product so far along with Brun Laarsen, both with a couple of goals. Redmond has offered naf all statistically.
I mentioned JBG because hes been playing on the right as a sort of defensive winger. I think it was pretty clear that my point was that we don't need another of those on the other wing. If he was to replace JBG on the right then fine, but i think that would be a downgrade defensively and wouldn't offer much more going forwards.
The only way i can see Redmond starting regularly is if VK decides he wants Benson on the right, then he may decide to balance that out with the experience of Redmond on the left
Re: Nathan Redmond
Odobert wasnt even in the squad at the start of the season, he's earned his role by performing in the fleeting chances he got and I presume impressing in training.
Redmond would have had more appearances if he had done more coming off the bench, simple as that.
Re: Nathan Redmond
And again, what do you think he should be doing in those 2 minutes he’s getting?Goliath wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:06 pmOdobert wasnt even in the squad at the start of the season, he's earned his role by performing in the fleeting chances he got and I presume impressing in training.
Redmond would have had more appearances if he had done more coming off the bench, simple as that.
This user liked this post: Jamesy
Re: Nathan Redmond
I’ve been reading your above posts and have come to the conclusion you must be a mate of Vincent Kompany?Goliath wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:06 pmOdobert wasnt even in the squad at the start of the season, he's earned his role by performing in the fleeting chances he got and I presume impressing in training.
Redmond would have had more appearances if he had done more coming off the bench, simple as that.
Without being insulting, the one where you said Redmond has always been bang average at this level is laughable.
Re: Nathan Redmond
It might be all that matters but let’s not kid ourselves. Clubs won’t be queuing up to buy these potential starlets. And we won’t be making a profit on any that we manage to sell either.randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:17 amIm beginning to think that is all that matters this season
-
- Posts: 7466
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2258 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Nathan Redmond
He was given a start against ChelseaGoliath wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:06 pmOdobert wasnt even in the squad at the start of the season, he's earned his role by performing in the fleeting chances he got and I presume impressing in training.
Redmond would have had more appearances if he had done more coming off the bench, simple as that.
Re: Nathan Redmond
Sorry since when has Redmond been anything other than average at this level. His best years were his final year at Southampton and first years at Southampton when he was an exciting prospect. Hes now just a decent winger at this level thats lost some of the pace that made him exciting.
Southampton let him go on a free which says it all.
Re: Nathan Redmond
Vincent must be a bigger idiot than I thought he was then. Getting an experienced Premier League player in on a free.Goliath wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:33 pmSorry since when has Redmond been anything other than average at this level. His best years were his final year at Southampton and first years at Southampton when he was an exciting prospect. Hes now just a decent winger at this level thats lost some of the pace that made him exciting.
Southampton let him go on a free which says it all.
Re: Nathan Redmond
He earnt it. Hed been excellent at Salford and then played well off the bench v Newcastle when Koleoshos form had dropped a bit. He then scored in his first start v Chelsea and scored again v Brighton when he came in after Koleoshos injury. He's earnt the shirt for now.
The only place Redmond could have had is on the right but i dont really think thats his role and jbg has been important in protecting our abysmal right backs so i dont have an issue with that decision either.
The big problem i have is the selection of Vitinho who i think is dreadful and the persistent selection of Traffoed