Nathan Redmond

[jedi_master]

A random thread but it's a thought I have had for weeks now and he just never seems to even be mentioned on here to have the discussion.

Is it just me that is confused as to why Redmond has been utterly uninvolved this season barring sub appearances when the game is already lost? We have such a chronic lack of experience and discipline in our team and it would seem (to me) logical that a player with 250-ish games at this level and can play across the front line and wide would be an obvious selection?

I realise he hasn't done an awful lot in the very few opportunities we have had to see him (though he looked bright when he came on against Sheff Utd) but he's not had a chance. Larsen has been OK in some games and poor in others, Tresor has offered nothing and Odobert, whilst exciting, is surely too physically lacking to be a consistent choice at this stage. With JBG getting older and Koleosho injured I continue to be utterly perplexed as to Redmond not getting a chance.

I would personally be getting him straight into the side - probably in place of Amdouni.

[Murger]

Totally agree. His lack of game time is yet another puzzling aspect of what’s going on. Amdouni is offering nothing at the minute.

[randomclaret2]

Its a side crying out for Premier League experience and he is one of few who has plenty of it..Another of VK's many baffling decisions this season.

[CoolClaret]

No resale value = limited game time.

[Pearcey]

I’d certainly like to see him starting. Maybe in place of Amdouni.

[randomclaret2]

No resale value = limited game time.

Im beginning to think that is all that matters this season

[bfcjg]

Im beginning to think that is all that matters this season

This !!!!!!!!!

[Anthonini]

Agree that he with his experience should get ahead of kids like Odobert Koleosho and inexperienced Bruun Larsen. On the other hand we don't see them training so who knows how they perform outside of the games.

Benching Amdouni would be insane.

[Pearcey]

Agree that he with his experience should get ahead of kids like Odobert Koleosho and inexperienced Bruun Larsen. On the other hand we don't see them training so who knows how they perform outside of the games.

Benching Amdouni would be insane.

Why? Looks a luxury player in a time when we need experience and a bit of grit.

[warksclaret]

Despite losing at HT in a number of games, the subs are coming on later and later, squeezing the time the fringe players like Redmond, Tresor have to show what they can offer. Our game against Everton was lost by half time, so Benson and Tresor come on with 3 or 4 minutes to go. Amdouini is a very talented player but missing Foster. The two together are our only hope of the goals re-appearing. I think with Foster having been out injured, Amdouini has been kept on as he still is the most consistent for creating goal opportunities

By contrast VK was making key changes at HT last season

[randomclaret2]

Despite losing at HT in a number of games, the subs are coming on later and later, squeezing the time the fringe players like Redmond, Tresor have to show what they can offer. Our game against Everton was lost by half time, so Benson and Tresor come on with 3 or 4 minutes to go. Amdouini is a very talented player but missing Foster. The two together are our only hope of the goals re-appearing. I think with Foster having been out injured, Amdouini has been kept on as he still is the most consistent for creating goal opportunities

By contrast VK was making key changes at HT last season

His decisions seem increasingly baffling

[LDNBFC87]

Benching Amdouni would be insane.

Agreed on this. If I remember correctly it was Amdouni that VK was most excited to sign and he seems to ooze class.

[Anthonini]

Why? Looks a luxury player in a time when we need experience and a bit of grit.

I think he works hard on top of being technically gifted. One of our best players for me.

I'm not sure luxury is the right word. I heard the same being said about Tresor. For me these are creative players that can make something out of nothing. I agree you need a bit of grit but not from your playmaker or your winger.

In that view Messi is a luxury player too?

[Anthonini]

Agreed on this. If I remember correctly it was Amdouni that VK was most excited to sign and he seems to ooze class.

Love seeing him play.

[Westleigh]

We seem to have quite a few players at the moment who are capable of beating a couple of men then no end product Koleosho and Odebert are a bit like Gnacchio (?) they’re quicker than the rest of the team they get level with the penalty area and there’s no one quick enough to keep up,as a result the crosses finish up goin to a defender.

[Goliath]

This isnt a difficult one at all. He plays from the left, our most exciting players have been Koleosho and Odobert. Redmond has always been a bang average player at this level.

[Woodleyclaret]

Amdouni is a class player who needs a striker to play off but has quality
Redmond seemed a strange signing and to use him instead of Zaroury is a complete mystery as he offers very little.

[NewClaret]

One of the problems with having a strong bench is that the players on it always seem better than the ones on the pitch.

[CoolClaret]

This isnt a difficult one at all. He plays from the left, our most exciting players have been Koleosho and Odobert. Redmond has always been a bang average player at this level.

He actually played most of his football off the right for Southampton.

[randomclaret2]

This isnt a difficult one at all. He plays from the left, our most exciting players have been Koleosho and Odobert. Redmond has always been a bang average player at this level.

Oh for a few bang average players at this level

[spt_claret]

Why? Looks a luxury player in a time when we need experience and a bit of grit.

Legitimately check stats like FBref.
Amdouni is a very effective high presser and tackler in the attacking third, not as effective in the defensive third, decent in midfield, but he works hard and is one of our only players able to press high.
He has fantastic dribbling and chance creation output from dribbles.
Amdouni is not the luxury he's just not effective with Jay besides him because Jay is far too slow and unproductive in possession. Amdouni averages ten times as many dribbles per game as Jay, he makes more passes, completes more passes, completes more as a percentage of his total passes, across all pass ranges and on top of this his passes are significantly more progressive. He's one of the only players who tries to get us at goal and make things happen. Jay is less accurate and more reserved in his play he genuinely doesn't offer anything besides height at defending set pieces and a block/tackle from the followup. He's too slow to pull players away with a run. He's regularly offside. Our attacking duo is 1 man.

Redmond, Larsen, Zaroury, literally anybody with mobility and the ability to pass or dribble ought to have been paired with Amdouni the last few games he can't impact the game as much as we'd like because he hasn't got a partner who can pull defenders away from him to create room for his dribbles to do more damage, hasn't got a partner who is going to scare players when he has the ball at his feet so they take their eyes off him, hasn't got a partner who can pick a pass or create a chance.

I'd love to see more of Redmond but for whatever reason it isn't happening. My instinct is "too old to appreciate in value for the all important Model by playing" but then we start Jay whos completely spent.

[Stockbrokerbelt]

VK & coaching staff are professionals & see them every day in training, end of debate.

[BabylonClaret]

Benching Amdouni would be insane.

It really wouldn't - he's played pretty much all the time available this season and has probably had less than 90 mins all told where you even notice he's there.

I'm with Jedi here. I can't believe that Redmond isn't starting - why the hell did we sign him if not to play him ?

[daveisaclaret]

VK & coaching staff are professionals & see them every day in training, end of debate.

He must train really, really well if VK & coaching staff think he can come on after 87 or 89 minutes and contribute.

[BabylonClaret]

Interesting stats fro. Spt there which belies my o.pression of Amdouni. I think he's got good feet and yet there is too often little end product. Accept same for Jay as well though but we knew that would be likely before we started. I'd like to see Obafemi more too because again - why did we sign him if not for this season (we didn't need him last seaaon)

[CrosspoolClarets]

Redmond is a very clever player which you would expect from someone with an England cap, akin to Jay.

Nearly setting up a smash and grab winner at Brighton sums him up.

I find it baffling why he isn’t on regularly on 65 minutes to expose tiring defences. If we bring on Redmond, Foster and Benson that would seem to me to be a dynamic change three quarters of the way through a game, probably the biggest weakness on Vinny so far is his reluctance to do this, while tinkering with other things that don’t warrant it (I don’t mean those three specifically all season - I know injuries etc haven’t helped).

As for Amdouni - very good player, gets a shot on target in every game, a sign of class, needs to figure out how to get more goals at this level but his record elsewhere is top quality.

[spt_claret]

VK & coaching staff are professionals & see them every day in training, end of debate.

Appeal to authority non-argument.
By that logic literally nobody should ever offer an opinion on anything to do with football, good or bad, unless they're not just a pro but in the exact same coaching setup as the player in question.
People make mistakes and people aren't infallible. Especially when it comes to analysing and interpreting limited or subjective data- football analysis involves some subjective data, and the objective data is limited compared to other sports which is why bespoke metrics have had to be developed.
Also when there's pressures beyond just football at play- as we keep hearing about the model- or potential vested/secondary interests these can skew judgements even subconsciously.

Or in other words - just because Kompany is manager doesn't mean every single thing he does or says is right. Wasn't under Dyche, isn't under Pep, wasn't under Ferguson, Clough, Mourinho or anyone.

[CoolClaret]

Appeal to authority non-argument.
By that logic literally nobody should ever offer an opinion on anything to do with football, good or bad, unless they're not just a pro but in the exact same coaching setup as the player in question.
People make mistakes and people aren't infallible. Especially when it comes to analysing and interpreting limited or subjective data- football analysis involves some subjective data, and the objective data is limited compared to other sports which is why bespoke metrics have had to be developed.
Also when there's pressures beyond just football at play- as we keep hearing about the model- or potential vested/secondary interests these can skew judgements even subconsciously.

Or in other words - just because Kompany is manager doesn't mean every single thing he does or says is right. Wasn't under Dyche, isn't under Pep, wasn't under Ferguson, Clough, Mourinho or anyone.

By the same logic we can’t criticise refereeing decisions/quality of officiating in the Country.

It’s a logical fallacy - would at least have some ground to stand on if VK wasn’t on track to have a worse 18 PL games than Brian Laws like.

[Goliath]

Oh for a few bang average players at this level

We have better players than him...the team might not be functioning well but as individuals Koleosho and Odboert have offered more and thats why theyve played. Im surprised hes ahead of zaroury tbh

[ClaretTony]

Can't for the life of me understand Redmond's lack of involvement

[elwaclaret]

I can only think VK was looking to have an experienced vein if not spine to the team, and when he missed out on his targets decided to go another way. January will be one of the most interesting in years, it should make clear if the club are going to dust themselves off and have another go at getting back up next season, or if they are going to add experience and guile and give it a real go at staying up.

[IanMcL]

The mysteries of a VL thought pattern.

[Boss Hogg]

Should have more game time. Looked good to me when he’s come in. Don’t think the window will be that interesting at all. If we are accepting relegation limply already which looks the case we should have a quiet one pending the sales in Summer.

[Jamesy]

Nathan Redmond is a player who always seemed to play well against us and still has a lot to offer.
In our current predicament we need experience not potential. Waste of time even debating it though, the stubborn one with the big ego isn’t going to change course any time soon.
Let’s just carry on with these kids with potential and keep rolling over and getting our bellies tickled every week.
I’m seriously debating if I should waste a day driving up on Boxing Day to see another soft capitulation or stay at home drinking some nice craft beers. My wife wants to see Mo Salah though so I will probably have to sit and endure another couple of hours of this pointless experiment of Vincent Kompany’s.

[TheFamilyCat]

Nathan Redmond is a player who always seemed to play well against us and still has a lot to offer.
In our current predicament we need experience not potential. Waste of time even debating it though, the stubborn one with the big ego isn’t going to change course any time soon.
Let’s just carry on with these kids with potential and keep rolling over and getting our bellies tickled every week.
I’m seriously debating if I should waste a day driving up on Boxing Day to see another soft capitulation or stay at home drinking some nice craft beers. My wife wants to see Mo Salah though so I will probably have to sit and endure another couple of hours of this pointless experiment of Vincent Kompany’s.

Send your wife to the game, stay at home drink beer, don't watch the game. Seems like the obvious solution.

[Goliath]

Nathan Redmond is a player who always seemed to play well against us and still has a lot to offer.
In our current predicament we need experience not potential. Waste of time even debating it though, the stubborn one with the big ego isn’t going to change course any time soon.
Let’s just carry on with these kids with potential and keep rolling over and getting our bellies tickled every week.
I’m seriously debating if I should waste a day driving up on Boxing Day to see another soft capitulation or stay at home drinking some nice craft beers. My wife wants to see Mo Salah though so I will probably have to sit and endure another couple of hours of this pointless experiment of Vincent Kompany’s.

Surely what we need now is end product, goals and assists. Redmond doesn't particularly offer that at this level and he's proven it over many years. Hes past his peak now so we can only expect his output to be even less than it was at Southampton most seasons. If we have JBG or JBL on one side, we don't need Redmond on the other. Thats too safe and when we are so many points behind, being too safe wont get us enough points

[Murger]

Surely what we need now is end product, goals and assists. Redmond doesn't particularly offer that at this level and he's proven it over many years. Hes past his peak now so we can only expect his output to be even less than it was at Southampton most seasons. If we have JBG or JBL on one side, we don't need Redmond on the other. Thats too safe and when we are so many points behind, being too safe wont get us enough points

Your 1st point - nobody else is offering any end product either. And to say he’s past his peak at 29 is laughable.

Your 2nd point - to say he’s past his peak and then mention JBG is again laughable.

[claretandy]

He was out injured for a while, but I agree that he should be getting more game time now he's fully fit.

[Goliath]

Your 1st point - nobody else is offering any end product either. And to say he’s past his peak at 29 is laughable.

Your 2nd point - to say he’s past his peak and then mention JBG is again laughable.

Odobert has offered the most end product so far along with Brun Laarsen, both with a couple of goals. Redmond has offered naf all statistically.

I mentioned JBG because hes been playing on the right as a sort of defensive winger. I think it was pretty clear that my point was that we don't need another of those on the other wing. If he was to replace JBG on the right then fine, but i think that would be a downgrade defensively and wouldn't offer much more going forwards.
The only way i can see Redmond starting regularly is if VK decides he wants Benson on the right, then he may decide to balance that out with the experience of Redmond on the left

[Jamesy]

Send your wife to the game, stay at home drink beer, don't watch the game. Seems like the obvious solution.

I’m waiting to see if my daughter wants my ticket and fancies driving her up north! I have had some bad times in the 56 years I have been watching Burnley, however this season is the worst because I know we could be competing a lot better if only Kompany would change his mindset.
It doesn’t have to be like this!

[Jamesy]

Odobert has offered the most end product so far along with Brun Laarsen, both with a couple of goals. Redmond has offered naf all statistically.

I mentioned JBG because hes been playing on the right as a sort of defensive winger. I think it was pretty clear that my point was that we don't need another of those on the other wing. If he was to replace JBG on the right then fine, but i think that would be a downgrade defensively and wouldn't offer much more going forwards.
The only way i can see Redmond starting regularly is if VK decides he wants Benson on the right, then he may decide to balance that out with the experience of Redmond on the left

I think Redmond could do a job at Right Back.

[Murger]

Odobert has offered the most end product so far along with Brun Laarsen, both with a couple of goals. Redmond has offered naf all statistically.

I mentioned JBG because hes been playing on the right as a sort of defensive winger. I think it was pretty clear that my point was that we don't need another of those on the other wing. If he was to replace JBG on the right then fine, but i think that would be a downgrade defensively and wouldn't offer much more going forwards.
The only way i can see Redmond starting regularly is if VK decides he wants Benson on the right, then he may decide to balance that out with the experience of Redmond on the left

They’ve offered more because they’ve had more than fleeting 2 minute appearances.

[Goliath]

They’ve offered more because they’ve had more than fleeting 2 minute appearances.

Odobert wasnt even in the squad at the start of the season, he's earned his role by performing in the fleeting chances he got and I presume impressing in training.
Redmond would have had more appearances if he had done more coming off the bench, simple as that.

[Murger]

Odobert wasnt even in the squad at the start of the season, he's earned his role by performing in the fleeting chances he got and I presume impressing in training.
Redmond would have had more appearances if he had done more coming off the bench, simple as that.

And again, what do you think he should be doing in those 2 minutes he’s getting?

[Jamesy]

Odobert wasnt even in the squad at the start of the season, he's earned his role by performing in the fleeting chances he got and I presume impressing in training.
Redmond would have had more appearances if he had done more coming off the bench, simple as that.

I’ve been reading your above posts and have come to the conclusion you must be a mate of Vincent Kompany?
Without being insulting, the one where you said Redmond has always been bang average at this level is laughable.

[Jamesy]

Im beginning to think that is all that matters this season

It might be all that matters but let’s not kid ourselves. Clubs won’t be queuing up to buy these potential starlets. And we won’t be making a profit on any that we manage to sell either.

[CoolClaret]

Odobert wasnt even in the squad at the start of the season, he's earned his role by performing in the fleeting chances he got and I presume impressing in training.
Redmond would have had more appearances if he had done more coming off the bench, simple as that.

He was given a start against Chelsea

[Goliath]

I’ve been reading your above posts and have come to the conclusion you must be a mate of Vincent Kompany?
Without being insulting, the one where you said Redmond has always been bang average at this level is laughable.

Sorry since when has Redmond been anything other than average at this level. His best years were his final year at Southampton and first years at Southampton when he was an exciting prospect. Hes now just a decent winger at this level thats lost some of the pace that made him exciting.
Southampton let him go on a free which says it all.

[Jamesy]

Sorry since when has Redmond been anything other than average at this level. His best years were his final year at Southampton and first years at Southampton when he was an exciting prospect. Hes now just a decent winger at this level thats lost some of the pace that made him exciting.
Southampton let him go on a free which says it all.

Vincent must be a bigger idiot than I thought he was then. Getting an experienced Premier League player in on a free.

[Goliath]

He was given a start against Chelsea

He earnt it. Hed been excellent at Salford and then played well off the bench v Newcastle when Koleoshos form had dropped a bit. He then scored in his first start v Chelsea and scored again v Brighton when he came in after Koleoshos injury. He's earnt the shirt for now.
The only place Redmond could have had is on the right but i dont really think thats his role and jbg has been important in protecting our abysmal right backs so i dont have an issue with that decision either.

The big problem i have is the selection of Vitinho who i think is dreadful and the persistent selection of Traffoed