Supervised teeth cleaning.

[bfcjg]

Not footy related and not a dig at Jurgen Klopp but just watching LNW and the latest idea is for schools to organise teeth cleaning, surely teachers have enough to do and the priority should be to educate children, what about getting feckless parents to actually parent their children correctly, what else will they throw at teachers, nose blowing, hair brushing, nit searching.

[CaptJohn]

I saw that as well and couldn't believe it. Some politicians are losing the plot. 20 years from now there will young adults suing the state because they didn't receive proper training in childhood to brush their teeth correctly. The mind boggles.

[TheFamilyCat]

Heard this on the radio earlier.

Of course teachers shouldn't have to, but you can't just leave neglected kids to suffer the consequences.

[Leisure]

Where does parents responsibilty fit into this? Or maybe it doesn't!

[Rowls]

Dreadful idea to push this onto teachers.

All too often the proposed solution to a problem is state intervention.

[Devils_Advocate]

This already govt policy as part of their guidance on child oral heath. This is also standard practice in some Scandinavian countries and seen as very normal and seen a positive action in supporting the well being of children.

Its gonna be a long 6-9 months between now and the election if people are gonna get suckered in and wound up by these nothing stories

[evensteadiereddie]

Dreadful idea to push this onto teachers.

All too often the proposed solution to a problem is state intervention.

Clearly a desperate measure as some parents seem incapable or unwilling to take on the most basic responsibility for their kids' welfare.
The lack of dentists isn't going to help.

[Quickenthetempo]

It shouldn't be down to teachers but I can't see the harm in a half hour lesson for kids in the classroom after a meal.
Maybe have facilities for cleaning teeth after breakfast clubs, as the kids who attend them are most likely in need.

With less and less NHS dentists for families in need, it will be harder for children to be picked up who are getting neglected in these sort of issues.

It's easy to just say parents responsibility, and in an ideal world it would be. But plenty of kids get neglected.

[Billyblah]

Quickenthetempo it could be argued that plenty of kids (as well as adults) are being neglected due to the the collapse of NHS dentistry from 2010.
Putting a responsibility on schools to organise teeth cleaning is a cheap way for the government to slow down the catastrophic impact that our third world standard of dental care will have on the population longer term.

[bfcjg]

Lots of kids are neglected but is it the thin end of the wedge, I willingly pay my taxes and the amount yhat goes towards education should be for educating. I know from first hand experience just how overworked ,underpaid and basically tied up in red-tape teachers are. Schools will get inundated with complaints from the feckless parents moaning that the "kid" has had a filling and it's the teachers fault, also young children lose teeth, who fills the accident/incidentform in if it happens during the teeth cleaning session then has to talk to the parent when they come to collect the child etc.
These pathetic politicians of all persuasions just have to think of an idea so they look relevant then others have to put there crap ideas into place.

[johnnyjones]

If you read this it makes for shocking reading, I know its the parents job but when they are clearly failing to do so it makes sense for the state to step in

"tooth decay remains the most common reason for hospital admissions in children aged between 6 and 10 years"

https://www.bda.org/news-and-opinion/ne ... hallenged/

If you want a better NHS prevention is better than the cure

[Rowls]

Clearly a desperate measure as some parents seem incapable or unwilling to take on the most basic responsibility for their kids' welfare.
The lack of dentists isn't going to help.

NHS contract needs to change, for sure.

[Rowls]

This already govt policy as part of their guidance on child oral heath. This is also standard practice in some Scandinavian countries and seen as very normal and seen a positive action in supporting the well being of children.

Its gonna be a long 6-9 months between now and the election if people are gonna get suckered in and wound up by these nothing stories

You used to be a fun novelty account.

[Rowls]

I've only just seen where this story has come from.

I'd nearly originally posted that it's as daft as "breakfast clubs" whereby it becomes the state's responsibility to feed children.

We won't tackle poverty and a whole host of other social problems until we start encouraging personal responsibility. If spending money on these problems was the solution they'd have disappeared years ago.

[No Ney Never]

For some children, just to have one parent would be amazing, let alone two!
Parents who themselves when children were poorly parented, if at all, are going to struggle to parent their children effectively.
Sadly many special needs kids aren't sterilised, they go on to become parents who struggle to look after themselves, let alone their children.
There's many reasons why it could be helpful for this kind of personal hygiene education to be conducted at school, after all, school is about educating is it not?

[Quickenthetempo]

Quickenthetempo it could be argued that plenty of kids (as well as adults) are being neglected due to the the collapse of NHS dentistry from 2010.
Putting a responsibility on schools to organise teeth cleaning is a cheap way for the government to slow down the catastrophic impact that our third world standard of dental care will have on the population longer term.

I wouldn't disagree, just trying to think what would be better for kids in the here and now.

[AmbleClaret]

NHS contract needs to change, for sure.

Ask me,I'll tell you all about it. Ran a very successful NHS only practice in Padiham until 2009. I'll happily tell you why I packed it up.

[Roger1960]

Biggest cause of children 5-17 going to hospital is tooth decay , government ie we either pay to intervene as early as possible and it won’t be teachers but TA,s doing it in breakfast clubs, or we pay a lot more later and they clog up hospitals
Yes feckless parents should do it but they don’t and as with many issues with the same kids society picks up a bigger bill later
Very difficult to see an answer

[Eloise Laws]

Am I correct in remembering school dentists coming into schools to talk about looking after your teeth, there was also adverts on tv when I was young for various things such as learning to swim, picking up litter, was there one for brushing your teeth too??? Sadly too much these days is someone else’s responsibility instead of people being responsible for themselves and their own.

[Clovius Boofus]

This will save money, so I'm all in favour of it. But I agree, it shouldn't be necessary - just like how it shouldn't be necessary for TAs to have to toilet-train some five-year-olds.

Feckless parenting doesn't even come close. It's more like none-parenting. You've got to feel sorry for the kids who come from such households. The thing is, many of them will end up just the same. Lacking basic parenting skills (commonsense).

[Stockbrokerbelt]

I suppose not feeding the poor kids during holidays or any other time is something freckles parents are to blame for? Listen to the theory behind it as there has been a collapse in dentistry under the government & will take time to put right & helping a nations children improve their dental hygiene will help immensely. I can remember when teachers also taught sex education, home economics etc, no one said that was a bad idea.

[Rowls]

Ask me,I'll tell you all about it. Ran a very successful NHS only practice in Padiham until 2009. I'll happily tell you why I packed it up.

No need! Worked in a dentists myself for odd years and know the score.

[AmbleClaret]

No need! Worked in a dentists myself for odd years and know the score.

As what,you seem to have done a lot of things. I was the dentist, business owner and holder of the NHS contract. Please enlighten me on your knowledge.

[boatshed bill]

No need! Worked in a dentists myself for odd years and know the score.

Weren't you just filling in?

I'll get my coat

[Clovius Boofus]

Maybe someone told him it was an easy place to pull?

[Rowls]

As what,you seem to have done a lot of things. I was the dentist, business owner and holder of the NHS contract. Please enlighten me on your knowledge.

I was only doing admin and filing. Good crew working there so I stuck around. Still go drinking with a couple of the dentists and nurses.

[Clovius Boofus]

The best job I had was working for a Chinese dentist - I didn't have to start until tooth hurty.

[Westleigh]

This will save money, so I'm all in favour of it. But I agree, it shouldn't be necessary - just like how it shouldn't be necessary for TAs to have to toilet-train some five-year-olds.

Feckless parenting doesn't even come close. It's more like none-parenting. You've got to feel sorry for the kids who come from such households. The thing is, many of them will end up just the same. Lacking basic parenting skills (commonsense).

Couldn’t agree more ,kids going to school in nappies ,can’t use knives and forks ,chuffing Nanny state we’re turning into a robotic civilisation can’t think for ourselves ,can’t do anything on our own ,need to put this contains nuts on Fruit and Nut bars ,etc etc

[Burnley Ace]

Whilst they are at it, they could also teach them table manners and how to use a knife and fork properly.

[PWBFC]

I've only just seen where this story has come from.

I'd nearly originally posted that it's as daft as "breakfast clubs" whereby it becomes the state's responsibility to feed children.

We won't tackle poverty and a whole host of other social problems until we start encouraging personal responsibility. If spending money on these problems was the solution they'd have disappeared years ago.

What do you think a breakfast club actually is and what sort of families do you think make use of them?

[Rowls]

What do you think a breakfast club actually is and what sort of families do you think make use of them?

What makes you think I need interrogating like this?

I imagine “breakfast clubs” are school canteens being used to serve breakfast and I imagine they serve the children of the school.

[PWBFC]

What makes you think I need interrogating like this?

I imagine “breakfast clubs” are school canteens being used to serve breakfast and I imagine they serve the children of the school.

From what you said I made the assumption that you somehow thought additional childcare provision pre 9am was a bad thing to provide working parents.

Of course I may have been wrong.

[Rowls]

From what you said I made the assumption that you somehow thought additional childcare provision pre 9am was a bad thing to provide working parents.

Of course I may have been wrong.

I do believe that. I believe it’s the parents responsibility to provide their children with breakfast.

But your questions don’t address this whatsoever. They suggest that you supposed, incorrectly, that id misunderstood what a “breakfast club” is.

[ClaretinJapan]

Give them an apple post-meal. Might help wean some of them off the shite they eat too.

[TheFamilyCat]

I do believe that. I believe it’s the parents responsibility to provide their children with breakfast.

But your questions don’t address this whatsoever. They suggest that you supposed, incorrectly, that id misunderstood what a “breakfast club” is.

"Breakfast clubs", like after school clubs are part of wrap-around care, paid for in most cases to allow parents to work.

In some cases schools use their pupil premium to fund places for vulnerable children and in doing so ensure they get fed.

They aren't a free canteen for those who can't be arsed feeding their kids.

[Rowls]

I’m aware that sounds curt, PWBFV, but it is very tiresome to face this constant kind of interrogation simply because we might disagree about political matters.

It’s a common tactic: I face a barrage of questions that I “need to answer” before my POV can even be entertained by people whose opinions differ.

And even when I “pass” this test (as done here) we’ll only get to understanding that we disagree, but we knew that already.

I don’t need to know whether a breakfast club stocks kellloggs or uses non-branded cereal to form my opinion. I don’t need to know if they offer oat milk to form my opinion.

I’m against them in principle. It’s an easy principle too: the state is not responsible for providing children with their breakfast.

Once a society decides that the solution to seemingly every problem is yet more state intervention then that society is on the wrong path.

Not only will it have a record high tax burden (tick) but it will fail to foster a society of citizens who can look after themselves. People who are self sufficient and look after themselves are better at looking after others too.

The government can NEVER provide you with a lifestyle better than the one you can make for yourself.

Absurd as it is, it wouldn’t surprise me if before long before you read a story about some poor and forsaken mother not getting her kids to breakfast club on time only for a politician to suggest that the solution to this problem is a state funded breakfast club patrol to collect children and cart them straight to breakfast club.

[PWBFC]

"Breakfast clubs", like after school clubs are part of wrap-around care, paid for in most cases to allow parents to work.

In some cases schools use their pupil premium to fund places for vulnerable children and in doing so ensure they get fed.

They aren't a free canteen for those who can't be arsed feeding their kids.

This is exactly right.

[Rowls]

"Breakfast clubs", like after school clubs are part of wrap-around care, paid for in most cases to allow parents to work.

In some cases schools use their pupil premium to fund places for vulnerable children and in doing so ensure they get fed.

They aren't a free canteen for those who can't be arsed feeding their kids.

As stated above, I know what they are.

Feel free to disagree with my opinion but I don’t need lectures.

The state can NEVER provide the same life you can build yourself.

So why is, “The state can do this!” seemingly the answer to EVERY problem in the country.

If you follow this route for generation after generation you’d end up in a country with record public debt and a record high tax burden and the populace who wouldn’t be any happier, healthier or fitter to look after themselves.

I rest my case.

Goodnight all, take care of yourselves.

[PWBFC]

As stated above, I know what they are.

Feel free to disagree with my opinion but I don’t need lectures.

The state can NEVER provide the same life you can build yourself.

So why is, “The state can do this!” seemingly the answer to EVERY problem in the country.

If you follow this route for generation after generation you’d end up in a country with record public debt and a record high tax burden and the populace who wouldn’t be any happier, healthier or fitter to look after themselves.

I rest my case.

Goodnight all, take care of yourselves.

I humbly suggest that some people's ability to work and pay tax is predicated on the fact that they need a bit of assistance from Monday to Friday before 9am.

Think you're over thinking it but each to their own.

[claptrappers_union]

Instead, the government should seriously be looking at the amount of sugar content in food. That's what's rotting teeth.

[TheFamilyCat]

As stated above, I know what they are.

Feel free to disagree with my opinion but I don’t need lectures.

The state can NEVER provide the same life you can build yourself.

So why is, “The state can do this!” seemingly the answer to EVERY problem in the country.

If you follow this route for generation after generation you’d end up in a country with record public debt and a record high tax burden and the populace who wouldn’t be any happier, healthier or fitter to look after themselves.

I rest my case.

Goodnight all, take care of yourselves.

Yet with this paragraph you have proved again that you don't:

"I'm against them in principle. It’s an easy principle too: the state is not responsible for providing children with their breakfast."

[mikeS]

When you've got people resorting to pullling their own teeth out through a shortage of dentists across the country it's not a bad idea.

[bfcjg]

My point goes back to why is it the schools responsibility, and why are not feckless parents brought to task over what is child neglect ?
Who cleans them at weekends, evenings,school holidays etc. A badly thought out idea IMHO and one to just get headlines.

[dougcollins]

Proper free NHS dentists for kids would help.

[Clovius Boofus]

Who cleans them at weekends, evenings,school holidays etc.

The kids will learn to clean their own teeth at weekends etc. This is about getting them into good life habits. Yes, habits that their feckless parents should have been damn well doing, but nevertheless, it's still no reason to pooh-pooh the idea - because it's one that will put less pressure on dentistry/NHS and save public money.

[wilks_bfc]

I'd nearly originally posted that it's as daft as "breakfast clubs" whereby it becomes the state's responsibility to feed children.

Breakfast clubs aren’t specifically there for feeding the kids, there are there for the kids with parents needing to be in work before school starts

[TheFamilyCat]

My point goes back to why is it the schools responsibility, and why are not feckless parents brought to task over what is child neglect ?
Who cleans them at weekends, evenings,school holidays etc. A badly thought out idea IMHO and one to just get headlines.

Of course, in an ideal world all parents are responsible, caring and knowledgeable about health, hygiene and welfare.

Unfortunately that is not the case.

I think everyone agrees that prevention is always better than the cure. I'd be intrigued to know your plan for ensuring every child is cared for adequately at home, so their is no need for schools to do this.

[Loyalclaret]

Rowls' thoughts on 'breakfast clubs'

Back on topic, a friend is a dental nurse and goes into our local primary school to talk about looking after teeth to the reception class. She does this FOC but I was surprised that schools do not pay for a similar session as standard, knowing the long term affects of poor oral hygiene on children and adults.

[MrTopTier]

Plenty of data and information out there to show the importance of breakfast and the impact it has on a children’s learning particularly with primary school age children.

The dental issue is an issue because of lack of access to Dentists
as a whole profession not just the NHS. There are very few school nurses particularly in Primary and there are of course children who have crappy parents and poor diets. It's a sticking plaster on a wider problem.

[GavlarClaret]

Evidently we can spend days going over the reasons behind all this, but if refined sugar wasn't a huge part of people's diets today then this wouldn't be an issue.

Typical situation that we see a lot of today of everybody looking at surrounding issues or social problems (and arguing about it!) but the root cause is ignored.

Big corporations have steadily increased sugar use in every day foods over the last few decades knowing its more addictive to the brain than hard drugs and governments have been implicit - not for the good of the people though, and this is what needs challenging IMO!