Scrap VAR

[RammyClaret61]

Blocking someone is not against the rules Stalban.

As PGMOL explained, it was a coming together of two players.

I’s that the same has the coming together in the Man U v Wolves game, the one Howard Webb had to apologise for?

Or the Tarkowski one that got a goal disallowed?

[Newcastleclaret93]

I’s that the same has the coming together in the Man U v Wolves game, the one Howard Webb had to apologise for?

Or the Tarkowski one that got a goal disallowed?

You do realise I’m Not the PGMOL? That is what they said about why the goal was given. They said it was a coming together of two players.

[agreenwood]

The thing that worries me about VAR is that you potentially now have referees reluctant to make difficult calls in the belief that VAR will re-ref the incident by way of some sort of safety net. However you’ve then also got VAR supposedly applying a “clear and obvious” criteria in an inconsistent manner.

Last night was a classic example of this in my opinion. Ref avoids disallowing a last minute equaliser and passes the buck to VAR, who then probably have an official sat there thinking “well I’d have probably disallowed it, but I can see why he didn’t, so maybe it’s not clear and obvious”. You potentially then have two officials thinking something was probably a foul, but neither give it as part of a bizarre effort to pass the buck/defer to the other.

[Anthonini]

Blocking someone is not against the rules Stalban.

As PGMOL explained, it was a coming together of two players.

I strongly disagree and don't think in any other competitions that goal would stand.

I've never seen goalkeepers getting blocked as I do this season in the PL. Even on corners and set pieces they deliberately put a player against the GK making him unable to go for high balls and obstructing his vision.

Goalkeepers should be protected and should be able to do their job without this rubbish. Never seen this before in my life and I'm afraid it's a slippery slope. When teams are starting to apply this tactic you get a completely different game where teams are actually going to be using this to their advantage in a very blatant fashion. Until they make up a new rule.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I strongly disagree and don't think in any other competitions that goal would stand.

I've never seen goalkeepers getting blocked as I do this season in the PL. Even on corners and set pieces they deliberately put a player against the GK making him unable to go for high balls and obstructing his vision.

Goalkeepers should be protected and should be able to do their job without this rubbish. Never seen this before in my life and I'm afraid it's a slippery slope. When teams are starting to apply this tactic you get a completely different game where teams are actually going to be using this to their advantage in a very blatant fashion. Until they make up a new rule.

I think it probably should have been a foul. But at the same time I can see why he didn’t give it. The keeper went down so soft, a pope or a Heaton would have smashed through that lad and done anything to get near the ball.

In real time it almost looked like a dive from Trafford the way he through his arms up.

[agreenwood]

I think it probably should have been a foul. But at the same time I can see why he didn’t give it. The keeper went down so soft, a pope or a Heaton would have smashed through that lad and done anything to get near the ball.

In real time it almost looked like a dive from Trafford the way he through his arms up.

Is Trafford attempting to play the ball? Yes

Is the Luton player attempting to play the ball? No

Does the Luton player look at Trafford, then move into him to prevent him playing the ball? Yes

Should the ref have seen that? Yes probably

Should VAR with the benefit of countless replays have encouraged the ref to have another look? Yes

Would that goal have stood had Luton scored it against Man City etc? No

[Anthonini]

I think it probably should have been a foul. But at the same time I can see why he didn’t give it. The keeper went down so soft, a pope or a Heaton would have smashed through that lad and done anything to get near the ball.

In real time it almost looked like a dive from Trafford the way he through his arms up.

Because Trafford is a goalkeeper and knows this should always be a foul. He could have made it a bit less theatrical because I agree he goes down a bit funny or too soft as you say. Doesn't take away the Luton player can't just make a block on the GK. Daft referee.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Is Trafford attempting to play the ball? Yes

Is the Luton player attempting to play the ball? No

Does the Luton player look at Trafford, then move into him to prevent him playing the ball? Yes

Should the ref have seen that? Yes probably

Should VAR with the benefit of countless replays have encouraged the ref to have another look? Yes

Would that goal have stood had Luton scored it against Man City etc? No

That’s the issue though, if the ref gave it on field (which he did) then what are VAR supposed to do?

It’s not clear and obvious

[CnBtruntru]

Get rid of referees ex referees making the decision, make it a professional company with no ties to football, CIA would do a better job

[Newcastleclaret93]

Because Trafford is a goalkeeper and knows this should always be a foul. He could have made it a bit less theatrical because I agree he goes down a bit funny or too soft as you say. Doesn't take away the Luton player can't just make a block on the GK. Daft referee.

I think that’s the issue though, that inexperience shown by Trafford has cost us.

Biggest game of the season in the last minute you don’t give the ref even the slightest chance. You take absolutely everyone out and get a hand to it. Don’t go down theatrically in the hope you get something

[Anthonini]

I think that’s the issue though, that inexperience shown by Trafford has cost us.

Biggest game of the season in the last minute you don’t give the ref even the slightest chance. You take absolutely everyone out and get a hand to it. Don’t go down theatrically in the hope you get something

Still think it's way more the mistake of the referee rather than Trafford calling for a foul instead of making more of a show.

[agreenwood]

That’s the issue though, if the ref gave it on field (which he did) then what are VAR supposed to do?

It’s not clear and obvious

What’s the definition of clear and obvious?

I think it’s a foul. You’ve said you think it’s a foul. Most on here think it’s a foul. Vincent Kompany thinks it’s a foul. Rio Ferdinand thinks it’s a foul. Rachel Brown-Finnis thinks it’s a foul. The Luton manager says he’d be ****** off if it’d happened to Luton.

If clear and obvious is asking whether there’s minority interpretation of the incident that could be applied, it’s a perverse way to officiate the game.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Still think it's way more the mistake of the referee rather than Trafford calling for a foul instead of making more of a show.

I think both are at fault, ref should have given it but it clearly thinks it’s a coming together rather than a foul.

Trafford shouldn’t have given them a chance imo

[Newcastleclaret93]

What’s the definition of clear and obvious?

I think it’s a foul. You’ve said you think it’s a foul. Most on here think it’s a foul. Vincent Kompany thinks it’s a foul. Rio Ferdinand thinks it’s a foul. Rachel Brown-Finnis thinks it’s a foul. The Luton manager says he’d be ****** off if it’d happened to Luton.

If clear and obvious is asking whether there’s minority interpretation of the incident that could be applied, it’s a perverse way to officiate the game.

I personally think the issues stems from the on field decision, I don’t think there’s enough there for VAR to intervene.

[agreenwood]

I personally think the issues stems from the on field decision, I don’t think there’s enough there for VAR to intervene.

With all due respect I have no idea what that means. What’s the definition of “enough” for the purpose of “clear and obvious”?

Step back from the language of VAR and think about how perverse this has all become. The only question the VAR official should be asking is “do I think that’s a foul?”.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The rule is that impeding someone IS a foul if the ball is not there to play, which, as the Luton guy ran underneath it to hit Trafford, it wasn’t.

Can’t believe are rating the ref high for a clear mistake of applying the law. It was a monumental match deciding error. Same as Villa - booking Berge for the first one was in breach of the law because the player kept the ball, so it doesn’t get pulled back for a yellow following the advantage. The second one at Villa was that VAR CAN intervene IF the contact was too minimal too cause a penalty, but that had an element of non factualness.

[Anthonini]

I think both are at fault, ref should have given it but it clearly thinks it’s a coming together rather than a foul.

Trafford shouldn’t have given them a chance imo

All very harsh towards Trafford I feel. Blatant obstruction.

[Anthonini]

The rule is that impeding someone IS a foul if the ball is not there to play, which, as the Luton guy ran underneath it to hit Trafford, it wasn’t.

Can’t believe are rating the ref high for a clear mistake of applying the law. It was a monumental match deciding error. Same as Villa - booking Berge for the first one was in breach of the law because the player kept the ball, so it doesn’t get pulled back for a yellow following the advantage. The second one at Villa was that VAR CAN intervene IF the contact was too minimal too cause a penalty, but that had an element of non factualness.

It's more because some rather blame Trafford than the referee because they prefer Muric.

[Dark Cloud]

I agree with several others that last night was exactly like the penalty in the Villa game. The ref makes his on field decision and var decide there's isn't enough evidence (in their opinion) to overturn it. Had the ref made the opposite decision, they still wouldn't overturn it, but they bloody well should be doing because it's clearly wrong!

[scamander]

I think most fans of every club have issue with VAR, I seem to remember Wolves getting some very bad decisions against them. I'm also getting tired of fans from every club claiming a conspiracy or similar or that it's corrupt. Really? The big aim for the PL is to see us relegated - if so then using VAR is overkill as we are going down (and I genuinely don't mind that much when we do because the PL is not the beginning or end of the club). Everyone hates VAR, most fans (and pundits) aren't always sure how it works, when it's employed or even some of the basic laws of the game (not in reference to the foul on Trafford, not seen it so cannot comment). Of course when VAR does get stuff right fans (of all clubs) ignore it. I'd be curious to see what the success ratio of it is. My understanding was that it's trying to remove errors from the game, sadly these will still occur but VAR was trying to mitigate as many of these as possible.

But fine, be rid but just get used to the ref making decisions without any help and enjoy looking at obvious offsides etc not going your way. Also watch player throw themselves around and cheat even more because they know they can't get pulled up on it. I don't much care for VAR but appreciate that there is a need for some assistance for the officials.

That said, how about we focus on what we can control. Again, didn't see the match but from what I understand we decided to form ranks and defend with 20 mins to go, that would be a challenge for any team.

It's a bizarre decision because that's playing into the hands of Luton. They are a side who will just launch it, no judgement there as that's how we once played. It's an even more bizarre decision given that we are not very good at defending. Even the best defensive teams are likely to have a lapse if asked to defend for 20 mins and more, you just roll the dice and hope.

Perhaps if we'd pushed up a bit and tried to kill the game off by taking the game to them we wouldn't have given the ref an opportunity to make that kind of mistake. Perhaps it's not always VAR or the officials, true they can make a difference, but playing the way we seem to have done yesterday we were giving that kind of situation an open invitation. The ref is always, always a variable at any level. Try to lessen the chance of a dodgy decision by not sitting on the goal line for extended periods. Also, I understand we had chances to get a second. In short the decision made a huge difference but we seem to have facilitated it.

[gandhisflipflop]

Anyone who argues that last night wasn’t a foul are doing so to justify their club bashing for their own agenda

[gandhisflipflop]

And just to highlight the complete ******* ineptitude, 10 mins earlier in front of me in the longside, Foster gets a foul given against him for using his body to back into a player to gain an advantage. He gives that one, but waives away the other. It’s completely nonsensical and it is extremely hard to shake off the feeling of corruption involved.

[Anthonini]

And just to highlight the complete ******* ineptitude, 10 mins earlier in front of me in the longside, Foster gets a foul given against him for using his body to back into a player to gain an advantage. He gives that one, but waives away the other. It’s completely nonsensical and it is extremely hard to shake off the feeling of corruption involved.

Other than that, for goalkeepers I think it's only right they are more strict. This is unacceptable. Trafford can never make a good jump with that guy trying to get in the way of him. Otherwise he would have gotten to it easily. Still a draw is not a loss. We got to keep moving forward and try to get points everywhere we can. Even against the big teams. There's no other way.

[Wokingclaret]

I personally think the issues stems from the on field decision, I don’t think there’s enough there for VAR to intervene.

Yet there was enough to find a brush of the arm in the Forest game

[Elizabeth]

Most times that goal would have been disallowed. Disappointing thing is that it was against Luton who we badly needed the 3 points against.

In the Championship the goal would have stood as there is no VAR. It is suppose to change clear and obvious errors by the match referee but it is not fit for purpose because the powers that be have made a real mess of it.

[Wokingclaret]

PMGOL quickly came out with that statement last night, must have known it was iffy

[Neil]

We often hear that ex pros should be involved with var as they have a better understanding of the game.
But I've seen some tv and looked at social media this morning and there's quite a split from former players on last nights decision.
What's subjective and what isn't now?
I haven't got a clue anymore.....

[wilks_bfc]

If there was no VAR, it’s still a goal. The problem isn’t VAR, it’s **** refs.

The thing is I could except that.

People make mistakes, it happens, but when you have the option and means to correct those mistakes and you don’t, that’s where the issue is

VAR is there to correct them and not being used

[wilks_bfc]

PMGOL quickly came out with that statement last night, must have known it was iffy

Also noticed that the VK interview on the TNT twitter was quickly taken down

[Sheffield Claret]

The thing that worries me about VAR is that you potentially now have referees reluctant to make difficult calls in the belief that VAR will re-ref the incident by way of some sort of safety net. However you’ve then also got VAR supposedly applying a “clear and obvious” criteria in an inconsistent manner.

Last night was a classic example of this in my opinion. Ref avoids disallowing a last minute equaliser and passes the buck to VAR, who then probably have an official sat there thinking “well I’d have probably disallowed it, but I can see why he didn’t, so maybe it’s not clear and obvious”. You potentially then have two officials thinking something was probably a foul, but neither give it as part of a bizarre effort to pass the buck/defer to the other.

100% this - which raises questions about who is ultimately responsible for taking decisions - the referee or VAR. The referee clearly thinks that VAR is in a better position to make the decision and therefore doesn't make the call but then VAR backs up the ref's non-decision. As a consequence, a clear foul is not given and no-one knows who is in charge.

[Cirrus_Minor]

Just seen Lutons goal reviewed on BBCs Football focus. It should definitely have been disallowed. I am at a loss to understand how VAR could have allowed it. We are seeing this every week now, VAR is not helping the game, so yes scrap it.

Just a footnote. Trafford was a bit weak and gave Luton a chance to have bad officials to allow the goal. Let's just put it this way, there is no way on Earth that this would have happened to Adam Blacklaw.

[Dark Cloud]

The thing that worries me about VAR is that you potentially now have referees reluctant to make difficult calls in the belief that VAR will re-ref the incident by way of some sort of safety net. However you’ve then also got VAR supposedly applying a “clear and obvious” criteria in an inconsistent manner.

Last night was a classic example of this in my opinion. Ref avoids disallowing a last minute equaliser and passes the buck to VAR, who then probably have an official sat there thinking “well I’d have probably disallowed it, but I can see why he didn’t, so maybe it’s not clear and obvious”. You potentially then have two officials thinking something was probably a foul, but neither give it as part of a bizarre effort to pass the buck/defer to the other.

I completely agree with this and I feel last night was as clear an example as you'll find. The ref doesn't actually get a clear view of what's gone on in the goalmouth, but suspects there's been a foul. He knows var will check it, so rather than disallow the goal he thinks he's safer allowing it and letting var make the decision. The flaw is that var will try everything possible not to overturn his original decision as the thinking is it makes him look silly, so they just end up agreeing with him. Absolutely wrong and not what var was ever meant to be about!

[ecc]

Saw it on a tweet last night and then again on YT and you can see why the ref could have thought Trafford wasn't impeded but there's a clear foul and the VAR officials just had to see that.

[Sproggy]

https://x.com/BurnleyFanzine/status/174 ... 10653?s=20

[Dark Cloud]

The fact that Adebayo turns his back, isn't focusing on the ball and clearly makes no attempt to actually play the ball really should make it obvious it's a blatant foul. He realises he can't get to it and simply decides to see what he can get away with, probably assuming that it's just going to be blown up as a foul. I bet he was the most surprised of anyone in the ground when Morris scored and the goal stood.