ALK CAPITAL ANNOUNCES STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP WITH DUNDEE FC

[claretonthecoast1882]

Or his refusal to speak to local media/fans has led to any negativity

Wasn't there a meeting last week between Pace and some local fans ?

[ClaretPete001]

And to be fair, if we gain 35 points this season and go down on the last game of the season you may have some ballast to back up your point about the new strategy.

[GetIntoEm]

speaking to the Burnley Express is a waste of everyones time based on their current football offering.

however speak to local fans is something that Pace does well, i've had several conversations with him since he's been on the club, same for my kids. he will always stop and engage. seems a nice guy

[NewClaret]

What comfort? Hardly much contingency for a few bad seasons.

I am saying that a system whereby we have young players on loan to a variety of clubs at different levels, developing hopefully to very capable Championship players offers me more reassurance than the scenario where we last went down. Doesn’t offer guarantees of promotion but does provide better opportunities to reengineer our cost base whilst remaining as competitive as possible.

This doesn’t need a partnership to be true, by the way. Loaning out players to league one or Championship clubs would have the same effect. I just see it as an additional route/channel to support our players development.

I see the pyramid as:

1. First 11
2. First team squad
3. Development players - out on loan getting professional football at different levels. League 1, SPL, Championship.
4. Academy - U18’s to U23s

When we last went down only 4 of group 1 were saleable assets for a variety of reasons, outside of that 2 was also ageing/low quality and 3 didn’t exist, bar maybe Thomas/Dunne. You could argue 4 has deteriorated somewhat given loss of cat 1 status, but it’s far outweighed in my view with strengthening in the other parts.

Think we have 2 players on loan to championship clubs, soon to be 3; 2 in the SPL soon to be 3; 1 in Bundesliga 2. Decent development paths we’re creating there that help to protect us.

[Goliath]

Considering everything that comes out the club from the owners side is bitched and moaned about is there much point in him doing interviews for the local people in the local paper.

Yes. Its the fans club, we were here long before Pace arrived and will be here long after hes gone. Its part of their duty to communicate with the fans.
I actually think he got an easy ride last season because of the success on the pitch, i was pretty uneasy with our cavalier attitude to signings along with the secrecy surrounding the clubs finances.

[Nori1958]

Wasn't there a meeting last week between Pace and some local fans ?

He does an article every home game

There's an article online with radio lancs today

He's available most games pre kick off for fans to meet him, granted he doesn't buy them a pint, but I certainly see/hear more from him than the previous chairman/owner

[forzagranata]

Russell Ball on loan to Dundee to the end of the season?

[randomclaret2]

speaking to the Burnley Express is a waste of everyones time based on their current football offering.

however speak to local fans is something that Pace does well, i've had several conversations with him since he's been on the club, same for my kids. he will always stop and engage. seems a nice guy

A video interview with Radio Lancashire is out now...

[CoolClaret]

I am saying that a system whereby we have young players on loan to a variety of clubs at different levels, developing hopefully to very capable Championship players offers me more reassurance than the scenario where we last went down. Doesn’t offer guarantees of promotion but does provide better opportunities to reengineer our cost base whilst remaining as competitive as possible.

This doesn’t need a partnership to be true, by the way. Loaning out players to league one or Championship clubs would have the same effect. I just see it as an additional route/channel to support our players development.

I see the pyramid as:

1. First 11
2. First team squad
3. Development players - out on loan getting professional football at different levels. League 1, SPL, Championship.
4. Academy - U18’s to U23s

When we last went down only 4 of group 1 were saleable assets for a variety of reasons, outside of that 2 was also ageing/low quality and 3 didn’t exist, bar maybe Thomas/Dunne. You could argue 4 has deteriorated somewhat given loss of cat 1 status, but it’s far outweighed in my view with strengthening in the other parts.

Think we have 2 players on loan to championship clubs, soon to be 3; 2 in the SPL soon to be 3; 1 in Bundesliga 2. Decent development paths we’re creating there that help to protect us.

I think it's a bit of a reach to claim that this is comforting compared to the previous admin that genuinely built long term success/stability for BFC in numerous ways (training ground, accesibility stands, multiple years of PL footy) and absolutely did have players out on loan here there and everywhere.

Your argument kinda falls apart when the small number of 'saleable assets' (hate that term) funded not only our subsequent promotion, but also a large chunk of the loan taking out by ALK to buy the club in the first place.

Not to mention, just because a player isn't sold and leaves on a free doesn't mean it's a net negative. How many years of success and revenue did we get from the relatively small initial outlays of Mee and Tarky?

[TPClaret]

Yes. Its the fans club, we were here long before Pace arrived and will be here long after hes gone. Its part of their duty to communicate with the fans.
I actually think he got an easy ride last season because of the success on the pitch, i was pretty uneasy with our cavalier attitude to signings along with the secrecy surrounding the clubs finances.

And how often did the previous board communicate with the fans? Very rarely the last few seasons.

[Goliath]

And how often did the previous board communicate with the fans? Very rarely the last few seasons.

How is that relevant?

[TPClaret]

People saying it’s their duty to communicate with the fans. Which I agree with, and I think AP is very good at interacting with the fans. Something which was lacking under the previous board.

[ClaretTony]

And how often did the previous board communicate with the fans? Very rarely the last few seasons.

Regularly through the CEO.

[ClaretTony]

People saying it’s their duty to communicate with the fans. Which I agree with, and I think AP is very good at interacting with the fans. Something which was lacking under the previous board.

Couldn’t be further from the truth

[NewClaret]

I think it's a bit of a reach to claim that this is comforting compared to the previous admin that genuinely built long term success/stability for BFC in numerous ways (training ground, accesibility stands, multiple years of PL footy) and absolutely did have players out on loan here there and everywhere.

Your argument kinda falls apart when the small number of 'saleable assets' (hate that term) funded not only our subsequent promotion, but also a large chunk of the loan taking out by ALK to buy the club in the first place.

Not to mention, just because a player isn't sold and leaves on a free doesn't mean it's a net negative. How many years of success and revenue did we get from the relatively small initial outlays of Mee and Tarky?

Going a bit OT, this, so for other readers benefit will make this my last post but to reply to your points:

- Agree the training ground was a fantastic investment, not so sure the same credit can be given for fulfilling a mandatory accessibility requirement. Conversely I think the ground improvements have continued with the LED’s, hospitality investment, FanZone, etc that you could equally argue benefit more fans and contribute to sustainable development of the club. I’d like to see this continue though, but doesn’t mean I can’t recognise achievements elsewhere in moving the club forward.

- Disagree we had lots out on loan? Who are you referring to? Certainly not too many the year we want down and not to Champ/SPL clubs as I recall?

- Agree that the four we did sell saved our backsides. Massively. Then Kompany put the surplus available to him to very good use. My point was more that I’d expect that a team with 5 years in the premier league to have at least 10 or 11 players that could attract a buyer (alternative wording). Four is a pitiful number, and should be noted 50% were ALK signings in the prior year - Collins, Cornet - 60%+ by value).

- Agree also that sustaining prem football should be considered when considering the value players brought to the club. Argued vehemently for Tarks to be retained for two years over accepting low offers and that strategy paid back many millions more. What was criminal was having both of his and Mee’s contracts expire at the same time.

Anyway, I’m comforted that we now have many players out getting experience in the league we’ll be playing in next year, the SPL, etc. Don’t expect everyone to feel the same, but just providing my reasons vs forming any “arguments”.

[boyyanno]

Well, that’s maybe a circular argument because some will argue Garlick would’ve invested in younger players but wasn’t prepared to keep renewing older players contracts - cutting Lennon against his wishes, rumours he/Rigg wanted Wilson by Dyche wouldn’t sanction it, etc.

Either way, he/they left

Lennon
Bardsley
Vydra
Mee
Tarks
Pieters
Stephen’s
Hennessey (?)

All OOC

Barnes
Cork
JRod
Lowts
JBG

With, the greatest respect to those excellent servants, they were all on the wrong side of 30.

We managed to sell just FOUR players for any kind of money from a 25 man Premier League squad and had no players I can recall out on loan or ready to step in to a Championship side. Four saleable assets after five in the Prem. Unbelievable Jeff.

That to me is absolutely shocking mismanagement, whoever’s fault it is (and I accept not all Dyche’s, perhaps). But my overriding point is I feel massively happier with the model we have now - young players out developing and getting game time.

How can you not see the contradiction in here?

If you were unhappy that the squad was ageing then you'd have been happy that they were out of contract wouldn't you?

The squad wasn't mismanaged, it had naff all investment in it.

But the real telling thing here is despite all the garbage about how we had such an awful team the following are all current PL players:

Pope,
Tarks,
Mee,
Roberts,
Taylor,
Brownhill,
Gudmundsson
Cornet
McNeil

That's ignoring the likes of Rodriguez and Cork who are barely featuring.

Your whole post is full of contradictions. Shame on the previous regime for having players like Gudmundson, Cork, Rodriguez, Barnes etc, but happy we kept them again?

Just bizarre nonsense that when actually scrutinised makes no sense.

I get what you mean though- current regime amazing- old regime crap. Just post that next time.

[NewClaret]

Russell Ball on loan to Dundee to the end of the season?

Maybe they can send us their set piece coach in return.

[ClaretPete001]

I think it's a bit of a reach to claim that this is comforting compared to the previous admin that genuinely built long term success/stability for BFC in numerous ways (training ground, accesibility stands, multiple years of PL footy) and absolutely did have players out on loan here there and everywhere.

Your argument kinda falls apart when the small number of 'saleable assets' (hate that term) funded not only our subsequent promotion, but also a large chunk of the loan taking out by ALK to buy the club in the first place.

Not to mention, just because a player isn't sold and leaves on a free doesn't mean it's a net negative. How many years of success and revenue did we get from the relatively small initial outlays of Mee and Tarky?

It's an utterly barking mad argument.

Everton fans are calling McNeil - Mc Messi. His seven goals saved Everton last season. Tarko is well respected by everyone.

Ben Mee was one of Brentford's players of the year last season. Chris Wood has scored 8 goals in 19 games for Forest (1 goal in every 2.3 games) and will probably save Forest this season..

Nick Pope has been a revelation for Newcastle. Cork, Brownwhill, Barnes, JBG and Jay Rod all starred for us last season and were clearly a class above most in the Championship even in their mid 30s (except Brownhill who isn't in his mid 30s).

JBG, Brownhill and Taylor are still among the better players in the squad.

Even Cornet managed to score last week-end after problems with injury but no one can deny Cornet is a decent player.

And Cornet, Pope, Mc Neil, Collins and Pope accrued £70 odd million in the transfer market.

If anything the intervening period has shown just how good those players were in their prime.

[randomclaret2]

Mr Pace is watching Dundee this weekend according to his interview

[Chester Perry]

This deal as we know has been in the offing for some time - when you delve into the Dundee ownership record you will see that they have got pretty sick of dipping into their pockets all the time to keep the club going and have been looking for someone to either take over/help them with it for a while

[helmclaret]

Or his refusal to speak to local media/fans has led to any negativity

I see him speaking to fans before every home game. He also talks to a lot of people in the corporate sections on the odd occasion I have been in there.

[ClaretTony]

I see him speaking to fans before every home game. He also talks to a lot of people in the corporate sections on the odd occasion I have been in there.

That’s fine but he won’t speak to supporters groups nor will the club despite PL requirements

[ClaretTony]

This deal as we know has been in the offing for some time - when you delve into the Dundee ownership record you will see that they have got pretty sick of dipping into their pockets all the time to keep the club going and have been looking for someone to either take over/help them with it for a while

I think something was suggested when Lewis went there on loan

[NewClaret]

How can you not see the contradiction in here?

If you were unhappy that the squad was ageing then you'd have been happy that they were out of contract wouldn't you?

The squad wasn't mismanaged, it had naff all investment in it.

But the real telling thing here is despite all the garbage about how we had such an awful team the following are all current PL players:

Pope,
Tarks,
Mee,
Roberts,
Taylor,
Brownhill,
Gudmundsson
Cornet
McNeil

That's ignoring the likes of Rodriguez and Cork who are barely featuring.

Your whole post is full of contradictions. Shame on the previous regime for having players like Gudmundson, Cork, Rodriguez, Barnes etc, but happy we kept them again?

Just bizarre nonsense that when actually scrutinised makes no sense.

I get what you mean though- current regime amazing- old regime crap. Just post that next time.

Was certainly happy some were OOC, certainly not Mee, Tarks, Vydra maybe. Having so many OOC in one summer, particularly our main CB pairing, and the general age profile of the squad was what I viewed as mismanagement.

Will add that does not mean many were not very, very good players for us and a few still are - Charlie, Brownhill.

If you think the position we were left in last relegation was okay, no problem. I’m not trying to change your view, mine is that it was poor and we’re now in a better position that I can see this relationship with Dundee helping if it develops well. In that we’ll have to see.

Have an good afternoon.

[forzagranata]

Mr Pace is watching Dundee this weekend according to his interview

Yep, he says its only a couple of hours away on the train. Hope he packs a flask...

[CoolClaret]

- Agree the training ground was a fantastic investment, not so sure the same credit can be given for fulfilling a mandatory accessibility requirement. Conversely I think the ground improvements have continued with the LED’s, hospitality investment, FanZone, etc that you could equally argue benefit more fans and contribute to sustainable development of the club. I’d like to see this continue though, but doesn’t mean I can’t recognise achievements elsewhere in moving the club forward.

The point being these are investments that are needed in the long term, but aren't going to see an return in the short term, that is what being sustainable is - having a ton of LEDs to bing adverts is hardly revolutionary is it? Not to mention costs a relative pittance.

Hospitality another - it's absolutely necessary in the modern game but again that has been done to the detriment of other areas/longer standing fans

- Agree that the four we did sell saved our backsides. Massively. Then Kompany put the surplus available to him to very good use. My point was more that I’d expect that a team with 5 years in the premier league to have at least 10 or 11 players that could attract a buyer (alternative wording). Four is a pitiful number, and should be noted 50% were ALK signings in the prior year - Collins, Cornet - 60%+ by value).

- Agree also that sustaining prem football should be considered when considering the value players brought to the club. Argued vehemently for Tarks to be retained for two years over accepting low offers and that strategy paid back many millions more. What was criminal was having both of his and Mee’s contracts expire at the same time.

This is conveniently overlooking the effects of Covid though -

If money isn't available for transfer and the task is to stay in the league, what do you expect the manager to do? It clearly was sustainable for points that I alluded to before, we were profitable, had cash in reserve and had enough to come back up first time.

There's certainly more players that we sold over our time for a decent fee whilst remaining in the PL - this notion that we just signed journeymen and Dyche/Garlick left us in a complete mess is just nonsense.

[Chester Perry]

I've been battling with this for a while but,

Is anyone else really struggling with supporting the modern game?

Still have passion for BFC but finding it increasingly difficult to bother when we're doing the same **** as the other clubs that are ruining football.

I have been there for a long time - absolutely refused to put my money into the game for over 20 years now

the last 10-15 years or so it has become much worse - with the exponential growth in the financial transactions around young men (and now increasingly young women) between clubs in an effort to circumvent the constraints of Fiscal regulation. Essentially what we have is a legalised form of farming, processing and trafficking of humans, which a growing number of fanbases, including that of our club, believe is healthy for their club, particularly when part of a multi-club operation. The shame is the model can be traced back to our club, though it was never exercised in this way and players first contributed to the clubs on field performance for some time.

Few appear to care what happens to the many thousands that are deemed not good enough, with some expressing outrage at the costs their club has (in their parlance) wasted on these useless individuals. It is all rather different to the notion of developing players to grow your team.

[Bfc]

I hope they don't give Dundee any ground catering advice.

[jrgbfc]

I see him speaking to fans before every home game. He also talks to a lot of people in the corporate sections on the odd occasion I have been in there.

Shaking hands and posing for selfies isn't exactly "communicating" with fans.

[claretonthecoast1882]

What would a fan gain from speaking to Pace ?

Trying to think of the times when going on a match I felt the urge/need to speak to the club owner and I am struggling to get higher than the number zero.

[NewClaret]

The point being these are investments that are needed in the long term, but aren't going to see an return in the short term, that is what being sustainable is - having a ton of LEDs to bing adverts is hardly revolutionary is it? Not to mention costs a relative pittance.

Hospitality another - it's absolutely necessary in the modern game but again that has been done to the detriment of other areas/longer standing fans


This is conveniently overlooking the effects of Covid though -

If money isn't available for transfer and the task is to stay in the league, what do you expect the manager to do? It clearly was sustainable for points that I alluded to before, we were profitable, had cash in reserve and had enough to come back up first time.

There's certainly more players that we sold over our time for a decent fee whilst remaining in the PL - this notion that we just signed journeymen and Dyche/Garlick left us in a complete mess is just nonsense.

Really last reply now as we’re well OT

Advertising hoardings/hospitality - no, nothing revolutionary, but invested in by our new owners and arguably necessary as it hadn’t taken place beforehand. Agree I’d like to see continued investment in the ground and things that benefit masses.

Disagree that Covid was the only factor. The time to invest was European season which was well before Covid.

Agree that there were players sold over the duration of their tenure very successfully. When did I make any argument other than the way were left in the end was poor? The issue most likely was that when investment was withheld Dyche was less willing to sell. It matters not, all I was saying was that the ultimate result left us in a bad position - one which I hope things like (not exclusively) the Dundee relationship may help prevent in future.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Yep, he says its only a couple of hours away on the train. Hope he packs a flask...

He’s actually driving there barefooted.

[randomclaret2]

He’s actually driving there barefooted.

Toblerone in hand

[GetIntoEm]

Shaking hands and posing for selfies isn't exactly "communicating" with fans.

what else are you looking for other than having an actual conversation with him about whatever you want? what else would you want?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

what else are you looking for other than having an actual conversation with him about whatever you want? what else would you want?

Candlelit dinner perhaps?

[forzagranata]

This 'strategic partnership' means very little at all unless ALK are investing money into Dundee or becoming part of the ownership of that club. Which at the moment it seems they aren't.

MOTD's social media account thinks it is "exciting news" - it must be a slow news day in the Premier League.

[ClaretTony]

Shaking hands and posing for selfies isn't exactly "communicating" with fans.

Exactly

[RVclaret]

Exciting news this.

[elwaclaret]

I think these link ups could mean little to the clubs fans involved for some time, loans apart. Clubs will not be able to ‘transition’ too quickly for fear of supporter backlash, but the in the long term the clubs systems will converge and share common features, transferable skills etc. From one club to another, both ways… though Burnley remaining senior partner.

Have to say I am more comfortable with this model than partnering with clubs that could directly challenge Burnley’s place at the top of their own little pyramid. It is not the way football has been run in the past, but as many have suggested is very much the movement of travel at the moment for a variety of reasons.

The big draw for the smaller clubs is avoiding the scenario that clubs like Bury found themselves in; much less likely with the added financial power brokered by the dominant partner. No doubt it will prove valuable for offsetting tax and in time as training methods, ideals etc. will become synced it will mean players can transfer between ‘partner’ clubs according to ability/development relatively seamlessly and more able to hit the ground running with their ‘new club’.

I therefore find it unsurprising the previous tie-ups have rarely registered as mattering at this early stage. It does not excite me as a fan but I can understand the long term logic; just as I can understand mitigating across different sports which I think will follow also. Corporations dominate the modern world, their power is more than evident in all aspects of modern everyday life.

[jrgbfc]

what else are you looking for other than having an actual conversation with him about whatever you want? what else would you want?

I'm talking about general communication about the club. I couldn't care less whether or not he talks to fans on match day. We've barely heard a peep from the Board this season.

[boyyanno]

Was certainly happy some were OOC, certainly not Mee, Tarks, Vydra maybe. Having so many OOC in one summer, particularly our main CB pairing, and the general age profile of the squad was what I viewed as mismanagement.

Will add that does not mean many were not very, very good players for us and a few still are - Charlie, Brownhill.

If you think the position we were left in last relegation was okay, no problem. I’m not trying to change your view, mine is that it was poor and we’re now in a better position that I can see this relationship with Dundee helping if it develops well. In that we’ll have to see.

Have an good afternoon.

Of course it was okay, it enabled us to rebuild the team and put together a group of players that walked the league.

This insistence that we came down with nothing and have made wine out of water is nonsense.

[brexit]

Yes. Its the fans club, we were here long before Pace arrived and will be here long after hes gone. Its part of their duty to communicate with the fans.
I actually think he got an easy ride last season because of the success on the pitch, i was pretty uneasy with our cavalier attitude to signings along with the secrecy surrounding the clubs finances.

I can't believe that there are people who actually think BFC is a Fan's club. It isn't itis a commercial enterprise out to wring every penny out of people who believe they are supporting “their” club.
Evidence the price of a bine and hot has apparently increased and the catering in the BL is still naff.
But the good news is, hospitality (where the club financial support is) has improved immensely: would recommend it to everyone.

[helmclaret]

I'm talking about general communication about the club. I couldn't care less whether or not he talks to fans on match day. We've barely heard a peep from the Board this season.

What information do you want to know?

[elwaclaret]

There’s nothing stopping you talking to him.

The constant negativity towards him is ridiculous.

I don’t agree with Tony’s view of Alan Pace but I can understand and appreciate those that do. Bankers and financiers have a very long history of coming into poor old Burnley district to ‘lift the area’ and when things do not turn overnight end up asset stripping and even destroying the businesses they supposedly came in to transform. John Cotton’s at Colne is just one example that I saw from the inside. AI Uk (automotive industries) took Cotton’s over… then the fantastic takeover of AI by Lear Inc was moving the firm to another level… within a year the stripping had begun and one of the biggest employers in the area taken to pieces bit by bit…

The American’s riding off into the sunset with full pockets.
John Cotton’s is now returned to a small Yorkshire company making duvets and bedding… were once it competed ant an high level in international trade; car interiors, bedding and high quality carpet underlay (always the most profitable and least cherished part of the business) was flogged bit by bit to its competitors who waited like wolves to pick the bones.

[Vegas Claret]

Scottish Prem is a good standard to send our lads to (it took us extra time to beat Aberdeen), no downside to this from our point of view.

[forzagranata]

Scottish Prem is a good standard to send our lads to (it took us extra time to beat Aberdeen), no downside to this from our point of view.

We don't know the details of this 'strategic agreeement'. Do we have to give Dundee first option on any players we are loaning out to Scotland?

Dundee might not be the best option every time, for every player. CJ Egan-Riley played for Hibs last year - would he still be allowed to do that with this arrangement in place? We don't know.

[CoolClaret]

I can't believe that there are people who actually think BFC is a Fan's club. It isn't itis a commercial enterprise out to wring every penny out of people who believe they are supporting “their” club.
Evidence the price of a bine and hot has apparently increased and the catering in the BL is still naff.
But the good news is, hospitality (where the club financial support is) has improved immensely: would recommend it to everyone.

Bottom line is this is the cold hard truth - it's just in recent years it's become even more apparant.

[Vegas Claret]

We don't know the details of this 'strategic agreeement'. Do we have to give Dundee first option on any players we are loaning out to Scotland?

Dundee might not be the best option every time, for every player. CJ Egan-Riley played for Hibs last year - would he still be allowed to do that with this arrangement in place? We don't know.

video of his interview here. We can only loan 3 to one club so if Dundee want some of our lads I can see that happening every season but your question is an interesting one ! I can't imagine there is any exclusivity for Dundee but they might get first pick
https://x.com/BBCLancsSport/status/1749 ... 02986?s=20

[Lip]

We would be better off signing character's from the "Beano and Dandy"

[Vegas Claret]

Wasn't there a meeting last week between Pace and some local fans ?

yeah that was with the fan board which I assume was set up by the club. Tony is talking about the long standing supporters clubs I assume, from memory the PL clubs are 'supposed' to engage with them too and it appears we don't (that's my take on what CT is saying anyway)