ALK’s Strategy: Are We Witnessing A Failing Experiment?

[Big Vinny K]

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-fc/payroll/

Does incorrectly state we signed Reguilon, so that has to be deducted from the £35m total at the bottom.

Which do you think is inaccurate though? Some will be so I can guess it is higher.

Even at £60-70m though you could envisage a healthy chunk of the fees would be paid from the surplus though.

If they are saying anywhere near £30m I think most of them are inaccurate !!
Since the date I was told it was £30m we signed Foster, Al Dakhill in the January. We also got promoted with all the built in increases that brings, gave new extended contracts to the manager, Benson, Cullen, Zaroury etc.
And then on top of this it’s the wages for all the summer signings, turning Obafemi and Beyer into permanents etc etc.
As said I think it’s between £60m and £70m right now.

[boyyanno]

You’re absolutely spot on with everything you said but I don’t see the point in now saying “Garlick could’ve taken out loans and invested the cash in the clubs account” when he obviously didn’t want to, he wanted out.

It doesn't change anything, but it disproves the notion that this is the only model that will work for us. And specifically the point that we "couldn't afford the investment required".

With the right balance the previous model would have also worked, we actually saw evidence across a number of years that it DID work, but once the investment stopped happening it stopped working- that's hardly surprising. So again my point is that I refute the notion that the only way to go is the ALK way.

I see the two models as the tortoise and the hare. Garlicks tenure built growth through slow sustainability. Alan Pace is looking to turbo charge it. I think it's absolutely evident that there's more than one model that can work, anyone who claims there isn't is clearly pushing an agenda.

[Goliath]

The big problem was really made by their own recruitment success last season with some of thrm only being loans. That meant to have even the same level of squad would have cost about 70 mill minimum.
The only one which they probably wish theyd pushed the boat out for was Tella. Maatsen was too expensive and THB isnt good enough, especially for what theyd ask for.
Unfortunately the replacements havent fit in as well as those did so weve ended up being quite a lot worse than last season, which is never a good place to be after promotion.

[claretonthecoast1882]

The ALK strategy is to buy a load of kids, and only kids, when they become good sell them on and pocket the profit.
If that doesn’t work then assest strip.
They are in this to make money and they will do that. If that means the clubs gets liquidated then so what? Why should they care! They are business men who want profit at all costs.
Caring about the club doesn’t pay for the new mansion and Bugatti.

There are some people this dumb

[Newcastleclaret93]

There are some people this dumb

Since your a genius why don’t you explain there strategy?

[boyyanno]

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-fc/payroll/

Does incorrectly state we signed Reguilon, so that has to be deducted from the £35m total at the bottom.

Which do you think is inaccurate though? Some will be so I can guess it is higher.

Even at £60-70m though you could envisage a healthy chunk of the fees would be paid from the surplus though.

Have you read the link?

Just genuinely asking because that site reckons we are paying the bulk of our team 25k and under a week. Based on that I'd say the majority of them are inaccurate. We were paying those wages in the Championship.

[Orangebernard]

Thanks everyone for your contributions so far as it's always good to get other people's views on what is an emotional subject. Like all football fans spending time, effort, a huge amount of money and worrying endlessly about 11 blokes kicking a ball around makes no sense whatsoever. I'm old enough to know better but it doesn't stop it hurting everytime we lose and that ridiculous feeling that maybe next week we'll turn the corner even though it looks very unlikely this season. I think the utter shock of what has happened this season compared to what was a 'wow, these guys might actually know what they are doing' last season has heightened my concerns about ALK. I think a lot of the uncertainty, as discussed on the excellent From the Bee Hole End podcast, comes from not actually knowing what the 'plan', or 'project' is, what the end of the project looks like and how long the project is planned to take. I just thank the likes of Chester Perry and Paul Waine for their endeavours of trying to keep a track of the off-field activities and report what they find, without their contributions i'm sure we'd know substantially less than we do.

[boyyanno]

Problem being you wouldn't understand these things, remember when you kept accusing the owners of sports washing, yet even when you had it explained to you, kept repeating it ? I would imagine you would struggle getting your head around accusing someone of asset stripping.

I genuinely don' think there is anyone on a level on here that could explain anything to you and you'd get it.

I can't be the only person sick of seeing your bile every week.

Most people come here for a debate, you come on here to try and "Bully" other posters.

I've never seen you respond to a debate, you just constantly "play the man"- which by the way shows your own lack of intelligence.

[Tall Paul]

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-fc/payroll/

Does incorrectly state we signed Reguilon, so that has to be deducted from the £35m total at the bottom.

Which do you think is inaccurate though? Some will be so I can guess it is higher.

Even at £60-70m though you could envisage a healthy chunk of the fees would be paid from the surplus though.

A quick glance at that link tells you it's hopelessly inaccurate. Besides Reguilon being on there, where are Odobert and Koleosho? And if you believe we're paying Beyer just £3k a week I've got a bridge to sell to you.

[CoolClaret]

Thanks everyone for your contributions so far as it's always good to get other people's views on what is an emotional subject. Like all football fans spending time, effort, a huge amount of money and worrying endlessly about 11 blokes kicking a ball around makes no sense whatsoever. I'm old enough to know better but it doesn't stop it hurting everytime we lose and that ridiculous feeling that maybe next week we'll turn the corner even though it looks very unlikely this season. I think the utter shock of what has happened this season compared to what was a 'wow, these guys might actually know what they are doing' last season has heightened my concerns about ALK. I think a lot of the uncertainty, as discussed on the excellent From the Bee Hole End podcast, comes from not actually knowing what the 'plan', or 'project' is, what the end of the project looks like and how long the project is planned to take. I just thank the likes of Chester Perry and Paul Waine for their endeavours of trying to keep a track of the off-field activities and report what they find, without their contributions i'm sure we'd know substantially less than we do.

Good thread OB - agree, it makes no sense whatsoever, I genuinely wish I wasn't this into BFC but I can't shake it. I barely even watch any extra football now but with Burnley, ah it's just part of me - like an itch that constantly needs scratching.

Keep posting

[claretonthecoast1882]

I can't be the only person sick of seeing your bile every week.

Most people come here for a debate, you come on here to try and "Bully" other posters.

I've never seen you respond to a debate, you just constantly "play the man"- which by the way shows your own lack of intelligence.

Then go into your account and put me on your block list.

Interesting you have no issue with the comments about the owners. Now go press that foe button and I won't have to read you quoting me with your whinging either then we both win.

[NewClaret]

Have you read the link?

Just genuinely asking because that site reckons we are paying the bulk of our team 25k and under a week. Based on that I'd say the majority of them are inaccurate. We were paying those wages in the Championship.

Yes I have. Beyer is notably rubbish but last year we were paying Tella, Maatsen and THB somewhere between £10-£15k pw. £25k is more Prem wages I think, not Championship.

The clubs a lot of these guys came from are very small and they didn’t get paid a lot. Tresor for example. Wouldn’t shock me if the bill was much lower than people think.

[boyyanno]

Then go into your account and put me on your block list.

Interesting you have no issue with the comments about the owners. Now go press that foe button and I won't have to read you quoting me with your whinging either then we both win.

I don't believe in foeing anyone, life is full of people you don't like, you are one for me and I'm sure I am one for you. I'd rather read your opinion (if and when you post it) because of that, other than someone who shares the same beliefs as me. Far more interesting and far more beneficial to personal growth.

However I don't agree with the personal abuse on this forum towards owners, players or each other regardless who is posted and who is targeted. You've just jumped on this thread to try and ridicule two guys for being "stupid"- It's just not needed is it?

[boyyanno]

Yes I have. Beyer is notably rubbish but last year we were paying Tella, Maatsen and THB somewhere between £10-£15k pw. £25k is more Prem wages I think, not Championship.

The clubs a lot of these guys came from are very small and they didn’t get paid a lot. Tresor for example. Wouldn’t shock me if the bill was much lower than people think.

Three young loaness though, not permanent signings- and in the league below. I think the only we way will have attracted the likes of Tresor and Amdouni is by putting a competitive package together. Obviously we will wait and see but I'd be surprised if a lot of those aren't closer to 40k. I think Big Vinny K won't be far off with 50-60m.

[NewClaret]

A quick glance at that link tells you it's hopelessly inaccurate. Besides Reguilon being on there, where are Odobert and Koleosho? And if you believe we're paying Beyer just £3k a week I've got a bridge to sell to you.

Yes, if you read my original message, I do say IF it’s true.

Beyer and Reguilon are obvious anomalies. Fair points on Odobert & Koleosho so here’s another including them and minus Reguilon.

https://www.capology.com/club/burnley/salaries/

That has total wage bill at £36m. Beyer still wrong though, but even accounting say £2m for him, it has us under £40m.

Here is another for you:

https://salarysport.com/football/premie ... urnley-f.c./

That has total wage bill at £42m, but that seems to include the whole youth team! 77 players. It looks a lot more realistic with Berge our highest player and then Andouni. Jack Cork quite low compared to others.

Whether it’s £30m, £40m or £50m isn’t really pivotal to my point though, which is that either of those numbers would give massive scope for a cash surplus this year which could help fund a very decent proportion of the players we signed in summer.

[NewClaret]

Three young loaness though, not permanent signings- and in the league below. I think the only we way will have attracted the likes of Tresor and Amdouni is by putting a competitive package together. Obviously we will wait and see but I'd be surprised if a lot of those aren't closer to 40k. I think Big Vinny K won't be far off with 50-60m.

Just posted two other links above, some do have Amdouni on top dollar. Tresor is a loan and pretty sure that means he’ll get his old salary as that would be contractual but maybe with incentives to come here.

Happy to concede it could be higher but not by a great deal and my point remains valid that we could be left with a very decent chunk from TV money that funded a good proportion of the purchases.

[NewClaret]

If they are saying anywhere near £30m I think most of them are inaccurate !!
Since the date I was told it was £30m we signed Foster, Al Dakhill in the January. We also got promoted with all the built in increases that brings, gave new extended contracts to the manager, Benson, Cullen, Zaroury etc.
And then on top of this it’s the wages for all the summer signings, turning Obafemi and Beyer into permanents etc etc.
As said I think it’s between £60m and £70m right now.

How reliable is your source on wages though?

I actually heard £25m-£30m though, so not saying that is wrong.

I agree we have obviously added since then but worth remembering that last years (let’s say £30m) figure will be included:

- Long (£1.2m)
- Westy (£1.8m)
- Lowton (£1.3m)
- Barnes (£2m)

That’s £6m+ although you’d expect they reduced a lot in the championship and loans will’ve offset some in part.

I’d agree it’s probably higher but still WAY lower than it used to be and plenty of scope for a profitable year.

[Big Vinny K]

Was told by an extremely reliable source that we had got the wage bill down to less than £30m.

You are never going to see that number in any accounts though as these will be produced to reflect the year end date(s).

Yes they will be lower than the £90m or so we reported in our last season in the PL.

Not sure which year you think there will be plenty of scope for a profitable year though ? I doubt very much it will be the current year. But that’s a whole different debate !

[NewClaret]

Was told by an extremely reliable source that we had got the wage bill down to less than £30m.

You are never going to see that number in any accounts though as these will be produced to reflect the year end date(s).

Yes they will be lower than the £90m or so we reported in our last season in the PL.

Not sure which year you think there will be plenty of scope for a profitable year though ? I doubt very much it will be the current year. But that’s a whole different debate !

Well if we had £130m revenue and say £50m salaries, the surplus after operating costs will have paid a fair chunk of the fees paid in summer is my basic point.

[Westleigh]

Just posted two other links above, some do have Amdouni on top dollar. Tresor is a loan and pretty sure that means he’ll get his old salary as that would be contractual but maybe with incentives to come here.

Happy to concede it could be higher but not by a great deal and my point remains valid that we could be left with a very decent chunk from TV money that funded a good proportion of the purchases.

Can’t imagine them throwing any profit they make into improving the squad for next season after last summer’s horrendous transfer window,if they stick to the buy low and sell high policy they’re going to have to hang on to a lot of the squad and hope they miraculously improve.

[NewClaret]

Can’t imagine them throwing any profit they make into improving the squad for next season after last summer’s horrendous transfer window,if they stick to the buy low and sell high policy they’re going to have to hang on to a lot of the squad and hope they miraculously improve.

They won’t have to hope they miraculously improve as they’ll be playing other players who are simply levels below the standard they’re coming up against currently.

[Colburn_Claret]

The ALK strategy is to buy a load of kids, and only kids, when they become good sell them on and pocket the profit.
If that doesn’t work then assest strip.
They are in this to make money and they will do that. If that means the clubs gets liquidated then so what? Why should they care! They are business men who want profit at all costs.
Caring about the club doesn’t pay for the new mansion and Bugatti.

A lot of assumptions and no evidence at all.
We're all hurting but throwing as yet, unfounded allegations about serves nobody.

[Colburn_Claret]

That's just not true at all and for a number of reasons.

1- We had money, we just didn't invest it in the squad. We used it to buy ourselves.
2- We had no debt, not only did we have money, we actually had 0 debt. We could have leveraged some just as ALK have, we'd have been in a much better position had we done so.
3- We'd have retained a lot more players if we went down and probably made more money if we did sell- Nick Pope wouldn't have gone cheap, I very much think Mee would have renewed.

There's some notion floating about that ALK have got loads of money, what's this based on? Loading the club with debt? If we couldn't afford to be a PL club then then we wouldn't be able to now- unless your of the opinion that this is some sort of sugar daddy type thing?

I don't get why you think Garlick couldn't have done exactly the same after operating sustainably for many years, would that not put us in an even better position? Of course it would, so no there isn't only one way to skin a cat.

We didn't have any money.
You're right that we didn't have debt, but Garlick would have had to create debt to 'gamble' on staying up.

Relegation gave us the opportunity to invest in a lot of players in the 3-10 million range. Some will pay off, some won't, but I'm confident we'll be in credit.
If we had stayed up, or spent in January to try and avoid Relegation, we would have needed at least 4 players of the 15-20 million mark to have a chance. Remember Dyche preferred the market he knew in order to run his due diligence, and the sell on value would be minimal, and a disaster if we'd gone down anyway.

You can point the finger at Garlick if you like, but this is real life not a game of Monopoly. In his shoes I doubt there is anyone on this board that would have done different, even if we all wish we could.

[boyyanno]

We didn't have any money.
You're right that we didn't have debt, but Garlick would have had to create debt to 'gamble' on staying up.

Relegation gave us the opportunity to invest in a lot of players in the 3-10 million range. Some will pay off, some won't, but I'm confident we'll be in credit.
If we had stayed up, or spent in January to try and avoid Relegation, we would have needed at least 4 players of the 15-20 million mark to have a chance. Remember Dyche preferred the market he knew in order to run his due diligence, and the sell on value would be minimal, and a disaster if we'd gone down anyway.

You can point the finger at Garlick if you like, but this is real life not a game of Monopoly. In his shoes I doubt there is anyone on this board that would have done different, even if we all wish we could.

Yeah except the accounts show we did have money so what the heck are you on about?

[claretonthecoast1882]

I don't believe in foeing anyone, life is full of people you don't like, you are one for me and I'm sure I am one for you. I'd rather read your opinion (if and when you post it) because of that, other than someone who shares the same beliefs as me. Far more interesting and far more beneficial to personal growth.

However I don't agree with the personal abuse on this forum towards owners, players or each other regardless who is posted and who is targeted. You've just jumped on this thread to try and ridicule two guys for being "stupid"- It's just not needed is it?

I don't know a thing about you, have no idea if I would like you or not I don't have any thoughts on people on a football forum with regards to liking or disliking them. I would class someone claiming on a public forum the owners are asset strippers as stupid, very stupid. That won't change, if you think it is wise to defame someone without any evidence then we will always disagree on that.

[Westleigh]

They won’t have to hope they miraculously improve as they’ll be playing other players who are simply levels below the standard they’re coming up against currently.

Well their attitude and aptitude will have improve threefold based on the showing against Arsenal,and Palace.

[Vegas Claret]

god forbid anyone makes a mistake in life and isn't given the opportunity to rectify it

[Westleigh]

On that assumption then there wouldn’t be half as many sacked managers if they all got a free pass after relegation to rectify it the season after,sorry Vegas that’s not how it works.

[Colburn_Claret]

Can’t imagine them throwing any profit they make into improving the squad for next season after last summer’s horrendous transfer window,if they stick to the buy low and sell high policy they’re going to have to hang on to a lot of the squad and hope they miraculously improve.

It depends how you look at it. Last transfer window is a disaster because we are going back down. It isn't a disaster if you look at the players individually.
I keep saying we bought good players, we're a crap team. The mistake is more the players we didn't buy than the ones we did.
Any player can look iffy in a poor team, and consequently look a world beater in a good team. Trafford and Amdouni and a lot of others, are new to this league and need a bit of guidance. They also need the confidence only good results provide. It's a which came first the chicken or the egg scenario. Given time these young lads will come good, but we need to start building a team on rock rather than the present sand

[Colburn_Claret]

On that assumption then there wouldn’t be half as many sacked managers if they all got a free pass after relegation to rectify it the season after,sorry Vegas that’s not how it works.

Dyche did, twice, and we were rewarded for it.

[Westleigh]

Dyche did, twice, and we were rewarded for it.

I think that may be the exception rather than the rule.

[Westleigh]

Dyche did, twice, and we were rewarded for it.

Didn’t Sean Dyche only take us down once?

[Bordeauxclaret]

One and nine tenths.

[Westleigh]

One and nine tenths.

No ,the post implied he took us down twice and back up twice,in fact he took us down one and nine tenths ,but only brought us up once.

[Vegas Claret]

On that assumption then there wouldn’t be half as many sacked managers if they all got a free pass after relegation to rectify it the season after,sorry Vegas that’s not how it works.

and that is why so many clubs fail. Find me a club that changes manager at the first sign of trouble that has then gone on to be successful immediately and I'll find you hundreds across the entire world that haven't.

Fergie
Arteta
Klopp
Pep

All given time

[Paul Waine]

Yeah except the accounts show we did have money so what the heck are you on about?

The accounts do show approx £80m in the bank, but that includes are large chunk of the Premier League tv money which was already committed to pay wages. Something less than £40m was borrowed by ALK to help them pay for shares bought from previous directors.

[Big Vinny K]

Just posted two other links above, some do have Amdouni on top dollar. Tresor is a loan and pretty sure that means he’ll get his old salary as that would be contractual but maybe with incentives to come here.

Happy to concede it could be higher but not by a great deal and my point remains valid that we could be left with a very decent chunk from TV money that funded a good proportion of the purchases.

Tresor was made permanent wasn’t he ?

The transfer fees are rarely in one go these days so if it’s apportioned over a 3 or 4 years that be around £30m a year coming out.
Wage bill of between £60m and £70m with all the other operating and finance costs I don’t think we will be making much of a profit. Guess there will be some decent promotion bonuses which will inflate our total wage bill.

With the exact source, amount and cost of our debt still not known this could be an increased figure too. Base rate gone up significantly and I doubt our refinanced debt is at the rates they were previously. Personally I think we are looking at a pretty tasty amount of interest and other refinancing costs. Last potential new area (as oppose to last owners) is directors remuneration and potentially shareholder / investor dividends.

[boyyanno]

The accounts do show approx £80m in the bank, but that includes are large chunk of the Premier League tv money which was already committed to pay wages. Something less than £40m was borrowed by ALK to help them pay for shares bought from previous directors.

Undoubtedly. But to say we "didn't have any money" is pure fabrication.

[clarethomer]

Sounds good in theory..

See the problem is the short-term in football massively impacts the long term; especially when players have been purchased with cash that the club has borrowed...

At the end of the day - a business plan is theoretical based on forecasting so you are correct.

From what I have heard publicly - both from VK and Matt Williams is that the board and management team sat down and created a plan that they felt would consider both outcomes. They were aware of the risk and cost of going down and they were also aware of the consequences of staying up.

So if anyone is worried about next season if we go down, I think how you feel about that probably is a reflection on how much you trust the board with the financial management of the club.

If they have considered both outcomes, you would expect that it won't be the death of the club if we go down. I also suspect that the players will fall into 4 camps,

Camp 1 - Jay/Corky for example - I think they will end up in the MLS with Scotty/Westy.
Camp 2 - Players under contract will be committed to the championship (Esteve was suggested by Matt Williams that he is here next season regardless)
Camp 3 - Players who will be sold because the price is commercially right for Burnley. (I expect Brownhill to have his contract extended but more for aiding a fee for sale if other clubs are still interested).
Camp 4 - Players who have been signed on the basis that they will only be with us next year if we retain the PL status. (Assignon has been suggested that he would return if we went down and I presumer Fofana will go back as an example).

I don't subscribe to the view of a massive fire sale taking place over the summer. Whilst re-investment is needed next season - unless we get some big offers for players, I can see a lot of the players we are sticking with being stuck with because of the need to get professional game time and to promote their experience.

Look - there is risk involved with running a club and the fact that promotion/relegation is part of the game, at least our owners appear to understand that unlike what has been suggested was the case for them lot down the road.

You therefore have to assume that the plan will be updated at some point as clarity is known about where we are next year to plan for all potential outcomes of a season in the championship.

The debt is clearly some concern for fans but at the end of the day - As any suggestion of how the club is owned/run financially is well hidden - Its impossible to say how real a concern that should be. At the end of the day, I return to the fact that they have discussed relegation as a potential option and its been confirmed that everyone in the club is signed up to both eventualities from what I can tell.

[Hipper]

1. Let's look at this idea that we have now learned to recruit from abroad - successfully.

Yes we do recruit from abroad but where are the successful recruits? Starting with Cornet, Weghorst. Then the group we brought in last season. And then those for this season. I can't think of one of them that has shown the talent to be a success at Premier League level, or if they have (Foster) there seem to be other issues. It may be that some of these players will eventually make it at this level but apart from one off performances none of them has been consistently good. Generally our recruitment with the Premier League in mind has been woeful and there's little evidence we know what we are doing, both with foreign players and young players.

2. Coaching staff. If you bring in young players you need to train them to be better - to progress.

I see no evidence that VK's team of coaches has any idea how to improve our players. We make the same mistakes every week and have been doing so since the season started. We do not seem to have the coaching staff to work with our players. The obvious example is a goalkeeping coach. What are they doing? Ask yourself which of our young players has improved?

3. The Board and management do want us to stay up. Otherwise why did they bring in the three loanees in January. When (not if) we are relegated they will have been a complete waste of money.

4. Last season after relegation we had some real Premier League players which we sold to raise money to buy new players. This season on relegation it's difficult to see how we can raise any money to buy players. Who can we sell? We may have to rely on loanees again leading to some of the same problems we had this season if we get promoted. Plus we'll be stuck with this season's failures who may or may not deliver in The Championship.

5. Surely when you set out a development plan you don't expect it to be a roller coaster ride but more likely a steady upward trajectory. Whilst we may have got promoted a season or two early that is no excuse for throwing away all the Premier League money they have at sub standard players that show little hint of being good enough at this level. You expect some failures but not all of them. On this, the Board must have been advised by VK. VK's attributes included being one of the best defenders in the Premier League, intelligent and hard working. Yet despite all this, in recruitment, in developing players, in team tactics, he has failed. Like with the new players, maybe he will improve, but where is the evidence for this?

Having said all this, as the OP says, ALK's primary purpose is to make money for the shareholders - that's it. Unfortunately when investors get hold of something they don't fully understand it can lead to disaster.

It will be a failure for ALK when it is clear they will lose money, and perhaps more immediately, they can no longer service the debts.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The original post is very good.

In reality, the much-heralded ALK 'project' is nothing new or innovative in any way- literally every club outside the Big Six in England and almost all clubs around the world are selling clubs. The idea of bringing in regular revenue by selling talent at a profit is just what most football clubs do. ALK sold this 'idea' to American investors as something radical, a brilliant idea that no-one else had ever thought of.....it's nothing of the sort.

The trick, of course, is to produce and sell players whilst remaining successful on the field. A good team will be a better place for young talent to develop and rise in value of course. This year has been a total disaster from that point of view.

There are some basic truths about the Championship and the Premier League and recruitment. By and large you get into the PL with an English core and then you have to start to mix it with a world blend as the PL is a world league and the championship is an English league

With English players alone you will ultimately end up back in the championship But with cheaper internationals the fate is also the same

There has been no balance at all to what has been done since promotion and we are seeing the results of that madness on the field every week.

The only way ALK will make money out of Burnley is by selling the club. They had a great window to sell at the end of last season when the value would have been high on re-entering the Premier League.

At the moment, Burnley don't look a great investment - large debts and heading into the Championship. They'll have to turn that around if they want to be back in a position to sell at a profit.

Was a really good post I agreed with until “The only way ALK will make money out of Burnley is by selling the club.”.

Consider the size of the investment (low), that most of it was debt (which will gradually get paid back) and the ever increasing fees for players even from mid ranked teams (e.g. Caicedo going for £100m+).

Looking at it on a 10 year view I see it easy to imagine a recurring profit of £50m+ including player sales. That isn’t a bad return on that original investment (in fact, it would be superb). Heck, they may even manage it this season if the wage bill is quite low, if we soread player purchases over the life of the contract. Then a final sale for another big return as in your post. My point being, there is a reason for them to continue hanging around.

Not saying they will achieve it, but I am 100% certain they can.

[taio]

Was a really good post I agreed with until “The only way ALK will make money out of Burnley is by selling the club.”.

Consider the size of the investment (low), that most of it was debt (which will gradually get paid back) and the ever increasing fees for players even from mid ranked teams (e.g. Caicedo going for £100m+).

Looking at it on a 10 year view I see it easy to imagine a recurring profit of £50m+ including player sales. That isn’t a bad return on that original investment (in fact, it would be superb). Heck, they may even manage it this season if the wage bill is quite low, if we soread player purchases over the life of the contract. Then a final sale for another big return as in your post. My point being, there is a reason for them to continue hanging around.

Not saying they will achieve it, but I am 100% certain they can.

£50m+ recurring profit for 10 years is just pie in the sky stuff.

[Big Vinny K]

Looking at it on a 10 year view I see it easy to imagine a recurring profit of £50m+ including player sales.

I’ll have 2 pints of whatever it is you are drinking please.
And a bag of cheese and onion crisps

[Newcastleclaret93]

Was a really good post I agreed with until “The only way ALK will make money out of Burnley is by selling the club.”.

Consider the size of the investment (low), that most of it was debt (which will gradually get paid back) and the ever increasing fees for players even from mid ranked teams (e.g. Caicedo going for £100m+).

Looking at it on a 10 year view I see it easy to imagine a recurring profit of £50m+ including player sales. That isn’t a bad return on that original investment (in fact, it would be superb). Heck, they may even manage it this season if the wage bill is quite low, if we soread player purchases over the life of the contract. Then a final sale for another big return as in your post. My point being, there is a reason for them to continue hanging around.

Not saying they will achieve it, but I am 100% certain they can.

Why is every club in world football not doing this magic money making scheme?

[ClaretPete001]

I think on the evidence the project is seriously in trouble

We failed to turn some of the best performing players in the Championship bought for £3 -4 million into PL players. It's as simple as that...! This season we have bought very young players for £10 million plus and in Amdouni's case closer to £20 million. To sell players for £20 million plus you have a limited market and they have to be good. If you are paying £12 million for the likes of Odobert you are paying market value and we haven't turned him into a PL performer. The reality is the football market is full of smart people who know the value of a player. We haven't be able to transcend that reality.

Generally speaking, VK has failed to improve the players or coach them into any kind of formation. After abandoning the City lite formation we are now back to a 4-4-2 without the players to play it. His tactics, in-game management and ability to affect a game do not suggest that we have the next Pep on our hands.

In terms of the finances we don't know that much....! The club spent £47 million buying shares (£37 million up front and £10 million more on the small shareholders evidenced by the 20 and 21 accounts). They also had a £65 million loan from MSD. How they funded the £68 million to the former directors no one knows.
You would think that we have a lot of debt and are leveraged to the hilt but in the absence of any communication - who knows.

In terms of commercial revenue all we know is that it went down quite considerably in the last set of accounts based on our last PL season. So, the evidence is pretty clear the project is failing. It could be because the project is actually failing or it could be because ALK simply do not want to communicate the progress they are making with regard to the strategy or don't care enough about people's opinions to communicate at all.

[NewClaret]

Well their attitude and aptitude will have improve threefold based on the showing against Arsenal,and Palace.

I’ll assume you comparing playing Arsenal and Palace to Championship sides is a joke

[Vegas Claret]

Three young loaness though, not permanent signings- and in the league below. I think the only we way will have attracted the likes of Tresor and Amdouni is by putting a competitive package together. Obviously we will wait and see but I'd be surprised if a lot of those aren't closer to 40k. I think Big Vinny K won't be far off with 50-60m.

I saw something the other day suggesting Trafford was on 40K a week so I suspect you and Big V are correct

[StayingDown4Ever]

I saw something the other day suggesting Trafford was on 40K a week so I suspect you and Big V are correct

That’s absolutely disgusting.

Embarrassing fee paid and embarrassing wages being paid to a League One standard keeper.

Humiliating.

[Chester Perry]

seems like a few of you have had an interesting day

on the finances

if we accept that the last accounts showed a debt to club from Calder Vale Holdings Limited of £114.8m, and take away the £65m that ALK/VSL borrowed from MSD then transferred the debt and the responsibility to service it to the club the following week as their takeover was confirmed. then you could say the club has loaned ALK/VSL £49.8m to buy shares. At various points the debt the club held on that £65m loan has changed and we know that on November 10 2022 the outstanding MSD balance (£32,762,013.75 according to TISE) was replaced by a new loan of £39,748,458 because the accounts tell us so. It is probably that that loan has now been replaced

On MUD Analytics

their accounts tell us that they have 0 (zero) employees, we know that the two owners are active at the club and analysts working at the club have claimed to be working for MUD Analytics, it is quite possible that Mud Analytics provide analyst resourcing to the club as a type of agency and possibly some proprietary skill/data sets. The owners of MUD Analytics do seem prominent in defining Burnley FC's recruitment strategy and the execution of it

as for the 'Project'

this is an interesting read from The Times - you see echoes of it (without the finance) in what is happening at our club - though as the article points out, it is still too early to say with thinhs have failed or been successful.

Inside Chelsea revolution: from ‘Everton on speed’ to trusting the data
A billion spent and only tenth in the table, but Jonathan Northcroft believes there are signs Boehly and Eghbali are starting to lay foundations for success
https://archive.ph/MIuU9

ALK arrived in December 2020 with Alan Pace saying that they came with had a series of well thought through ideas/plans (they had been planning this for years) that were innovative and had not be done before - to date that has not been shown to be the case, everything that we have seen has been done before, at best what we have seen is a number of highly derivative ideas employed (ranging from the nature of the ownership group, to commercial offerings at the club through to the scouting and recruitment) with the only unique feature being that no small town club in history has loaned it's owners so much money directly and even that is a copy of the Manchester United buyout by the Glazer family.

[Swizzlestick]

That’s absolutely disgusting.

Embarrassing fee paid and embarrassing wages being paid to a League One standard keeper.

Humiliating.

Convinced you’re some sort of bot.