Assignon, Esteve and Fofana

[aggi]

So we've had a few games with them now. Obviously some were wildly optimistic after they'd played a few minutes, some much less so:

Assignon - he looks skilful and pacy but seems pretty weak tactically and defensively. May go on to be a good player eventually but I suspect it won't be with us.

Esteve - looks ok. Bit of pace, bit of strength, lacks experience and physicality at times. Seems to be just another centre half like many we already have. Maybe he'll go on to develop and become a valuable player but we already have a load of centre halves to do that with and we can't play them all. I reckon someone with some experience to actually help develop the other defenders would have been a better bet.

Fofana - didn't have much of a record when he joined us but he's been pretty exciting and certainly seems willing to put the effort in. Needs to get his head up and pass a bit more though. Will be interesting to see where he ends up next season.

[NewClaret]

Can pretty much summarise all their performances as showing lots of potential but also the raw edges and inconsistency that you get with younger players.

Sadly, I think we’ll lose both Assignon and Fofana in summer but hopefully our relationship with Chelsea will help with Fofana. He’d bag loads in the Championship and Chelsea will no doubt be up for us adding massive value to one of their young players as we did with Maatsen.

One thing is for sure though - had we bought experienced players instead, they’d all be leaving in summer as we can’t afford the wages in the Championship. At least this way we potentially keep Esteve.

Final point: I think it’s easy to underrate these young players. Bar Fofana, come to a new country to join a struggling side and playing the best league in the world. Despite some poor results since Christmas there’s been some creditable performances from all of them individually.

[beddie]

To me I would only keep Fofana if we can of course. I looked at Mark Cucurella the other night,I’ve always liked him, he’s what you’d call a lightweight, not very tall either, but he certainly gets stuck in and lets forwards know he’s about, I’m only likening him to what we need in that position, unfortunately Assignon is not up to the task, imo of course.

[GetIntoEm]

im not sure i'm keen on Assignon's attitude, lot of stupid gobbing off, booting ball away. think theres a player in there tho. hopefully can change that side of his game

[Silkyskills1]

What do you mean when you say 'I think there is a player in there'? It doesn't make any sense whichever way it is considered. As for the three players mentioned let all three go back to their clubs though I believe we are stuck with Esteve so that's a pity.

[NewClaret]

Really surprised to see negative comments about Esteve. I think he’s been great bar his error vs WHU.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

We need to find the next Tarky and Trippier really .

Fofana would be great in the division below.

Seen some good crosses from Assignon, not sure about Esteve yet.

[expoultryboy]

Assignon can do one for me after that pathetic collapse on Sunday that could easily have cost us a goal .

[NottsClaret]

Steve's alright, don't think Fofana will fancy the Championship, Assignon can return to wherever he came from.

[jojomk1]

The "PLAN", as far as I am aware, looks for us to buy, improve and sell players for a profit
The above three, plus Tresor don't fit that criteria if they are indeed loans

[dougcollins]

Assignon can do one for me after that pathetic collapse on Sunday that could easily have cost us a goal .

It's not the only time - he seriously needs to quit throwing himself on the floor holding various body parts.

It's really not a good look, leave that to Brighton.

[CoolClaret]

Assignon - talented but definitely a European style footballer that does things that I deem unsporting. Not particularly arsed if we sign him or not.

Esteve - very raw, good physical attributes but don't think he should be starting rn.

Fofana - very good player; if he was playing together with Foster we'd have a real menacing front two that'd compliment each other perfectly.

Esteve is our player now though isn't he? It was a loan with an obligation to buy independent of relegation or not, where as triggering Assignon's signing is based upon remaining in the PL.

[elwaclaret]

What do you mean when you say 'I think there is a player in there'? It doesn't make any sense whichever way it is considered. As for the three players mentioned let all three go back to their clubs though I believe we are stuck with Esteve so that's a pity.

Modern trendy speak for a player with potential to develop. A nonsense term for any player playing in the best league in the world that is more befitting a lad playing Sunday league football, who has been missed by scouts.

[get stuck in tracy]

I like em.

[ClaretTony]

Assignon - not so sure at all, looked good but then not so good which I suppose is what you'd expect of someone his age.
Estève - can't see him as an improvement on what we had.
Fofana - certainly more positive since his performance at West Ham when I thought he offered so much as well as his goal. I'm not sure who should be playing in that role behind him but I don't think it's Amdouni or Odobert.

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Think I will leave it to people that actually know in our management team.

[ElectroClaret]

I don't think Chelsea will want Fofana playing in the Championship next term, even if he wants to stick with us. Probably get farmed out to another PL club, maybe one of the clubs that come up.

Hope I'm wrong on that though, he be good for us.
Can see him tearing up the Championship, particularly if paired with Foster.

Bit meh on the other two.

[Goliath]

Assignon - not so sure at all, looked good but then not so good which I suppose is what you'd expect of someone his age.
Estève - can't see him as an improvement on what we had.
Fofana - certainly more positive since his performance at West Ham when I thought he offered so much as well as his goal. I'm not sure who should be playing in that role behind him but I don't think it's Amdouni or Odobert.

That role behind Fofana is really important in terms of how we play. Personally i think if we play Rodriguez there it frees up Fofana to run in behind instead of trying to win headers with his back to goal. We also would have an extra defender at set pieces.

Theres also the option of Brownhill for his pressing or Tresor for his ability on the ball.
Personally id go Rodriguez but could understand selection of the other 2.
The one i wouldnt be happy with is Amdouni, hes had more than enough chances and blown them.

[Woodleyclaret]

Esteve looks a good defender .Fofana definitely worth pursuing sale or loan .Assignor good skils but needs to cut out the playacting

[Quickenthetempo]

Think I will leave it to people that actually know in our management team.

You will wait quite a long time if you want them to post their opinions on a supporters messageboard.

[Goody1975]

The squad needs a bit of tweaking in two or three positions but I'm hopeful the bulk of the side we'll have next season are already here.

This is where the manager and his staff earn their corn. They'll have a full pre season with the squad to get them up to the levels they were at in Oct 2022, right from the opening weekend.

[Tricky Trevor]

I like Esteve. Still in a settling in period, in a new country, and looks assured. Natural two footer is a bonus.

[Burnley1989]

Really surprised to see negative comments about Esteve. I think he’s been great bar his error vs WHU.

Ive heard similar from others, I personally dont think hes anything special.

Maybe we've just been blessed with better centre half's previously and a little like Trafford, I'm just seeing far inferior players to the ones under Dyche

[Foshiznik]

The amount of fans who don't think Esteve is an improvement on Ekdal or O'Shea shows how little fans understand about football compared to those in the industry.

[CoolClaret]

The amount of fans who don't think Esteve is an improvement on Ekdal or O'Shea shows how little fans understand about football compared to those in the industry.

No - that's not how it works.

He's a prospect and has the raw ability to become a good player - time will tell if he does. Right now his inexperience is showing, that's all.

[Silkyskills1]

The amount of fans who don't think Esteve is an improvement on Ekdal or O'Shea shows how little fans understand about football compared to those in the industry.

Never compared him with any other player. O'Shea has got himself a regular start in the team. That's because the other CH's are injured or out on loan.

[Ric_C]

Assignon - Not fussed about him tbh, don't think his crossing is particularly good either

Esteve - Jury's out for me, but I guess he needs time to grow into things. Looks raw.

Fofana - If we can snag him on a season long loan, he will score loads in the championship. He was god awful against Bournemouth, but I've seen enough of him that he knows where the net is.

As others have mentioned above, it's crazy we have signed all these flair players, but not one of them looks comfortable in the number 8/10 slot. We are crying out for that type of player next season.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

Assignon - average championship defender
Steeeeeve - as above, but with poor passing
Fofana - a star in the making

[Paul Waine]

Pretty certain that club has obligation to buy Esteve. Loan signing because we lack height in other defenders. No reason why he can't develop with Burnley.

Fofana has only played a few games for Chelsea. Fans I know there say he's "hit and miss." He's grabbing his chance with Burnley. Of course, club has no option to buy. Will return to Chelsea in May. I'd expect Chelsea then to consider their plans, look at him in pre-season. Their player, just passing through at Burnley.

Assignon may develop more with Burnley. I'd be happy if he is with the club next season. However, this may require FFP points deductions to relegate Everton and Forest. (See Martyn Samuel in The Times).

If Burnley are playing in Championship I'd hope that time is spent on development of players we have in preference for further loans. (Not ruling out moving on those who want to move on...). Better, in my opinion, to play with a team that will be Premier League ready when they get promoted, rather than have key loanee(s) to replace and a new team to build.

UTC

[boyyanno]

The amount of fans who don't think Esteve is an improvement on Ekdal or O'Shea shows how little fans understand about football compared to those in the industry.

What a bizarre post.

Can you show me where anyone "in the industry" supports this?

Or is it made up bullshit?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Esteve - the deal on a permanent is happening, so let's hope he continues to develop well. I think he is a real prospect.

Assignon - Not overly convincing but he is a prospect. Wouldn't pay circa £10m for him if we go down though.

Fofana - Already seems to blow hot and cold, would love him back on loan with an option to buy if we get promoted again.

[aggi]

The amount of fans who don't think Esteve is an improvement on Ekdal or O'Shea shows how little fans understand about football compared to those in the industry.

This reads very much like all of the posts saying what an improvement Al Dakhil or Beyer were on the "limited" Tarkowski and Mee.

Esteve seems OK, can't imagine he'll be supplanting O'Shea any time soon as he seems to be the only regular in that back line. We already have a huge number of centre halves in their early twenties though.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Think I will leave it to people that actually know in our management team.

Leave it to the laptop guy to work it out they are clearly all doing a sterling job this season.

[equinox]

Assignor < Roberts

Esteve < Al Dakhil ect.

Fofana > Obafemi ect.

[KRBFC]

I like Esteve a lot, tall aggressive and a decent left foot, I think with him, Beyer and Al Dakhil we have 3 really good prospects. Maybe one of them develops into a fullback? With the other two forming a CB partnership.

Assignon, he’s ok I guess, wouldn’t sign him on a permanent though.

Fofana would like him to return in the Championship, you don’t know what you’re going to get with him, I’m not sure if that’s a good or bad thing.

[IanMcL]

We are fffortunate to have fffofana.

[Silkyskills1]

This reads very much like all of the posts saying what an improvement Al Dakhil or Beyer were on the "limited" Tarkowski and Mee.

Esteve seems OK, can't imagine he'll be supplanting O'Shea any time soon as he seems to be the only regular in that back line.

Never really rated O'Shea. Reinforces the notion of an accident waiting to happen.

[boatshed bill]

Never really rated O'Shea. Reinforces the notion of an accident waiting to happen.

i agree.
He strikes me as being all action, but with some consequences.
Is it just injuries that have meant he hasn't formed a reasonable partnership with any of our other CBs?

[Stayingup]

Can pretty much summarise all their performances as showing lots of potential but also the raw edges and inconsistency that you get with younger players.

Sadly, I think we’ll lose both Assignon and Fofana in summer but hopefully our relationship with Chelsea will help with Fofana. He’d bag loads in the Championship and Chelsea will no doubt be up for us adding massive value to one of their young players as we did with Maatsen.

One thing is for sure though - had we bought experienced players instead, they’d all be leaving in summer as we can’t afford the wages in the Championship. At least this way we potentially keep Esteve.

Final point: I think it’s easy to underrate these young players. Bar Fofana, come to a new country to join a struggling side and playing the best league in the world. Despite some poor results since Christmas there’s been some creditable performances from all of them individually.

[aggi]

Never really rated O'Shea. Reinforces the notion of an accident waiting to happen.

I think all the chopping and changing hasn't helped him and he's not ready to be the senior defensive partner but I could see him developing into a solid premier league defender.

If he'd spent this season playing alongside Mee I think he'd have looked considerably more assured.

Although you look at Collins and he still seems to have a fair few mistakes in him but has gone for good money a few times.

[boyyanno]

I think all the chopping and changing hasn't helped him and he's not ready to be the senior defensive partner but I could see him developing into a solid premier league defender.

If he'd spent this season playing alongside Mee I think he'd have looked considerably more assured.

Although you look at Collins and he still seems to have a fair few mistakes in him but has gone for good money a few times.

Thats how feel about him too. I think in a Dyche system he would be fine, I'm not sure Kompany's system plays to his strengths.

On Esteve I thought he looked good and showed he has somthing in the first few games, but he's looked a little exposed over the last couple. Hard to say hes a better player than anyone yet it's just way too early. I don't know if it's as a result of being starved of technical players in favour of grafters under Dyche (i mean that in the nicest way possible) but I think some of our fan base sees someone who looks a bit more technical and automatically decides they are a great player. The same happened with Amdouni.

I personally always felt we could have done with a more senior player at the back to partner one of our many younger and inexperienced options. Still think we need that throughout the side to help them all develop.

[NewClaret]

Ive heard similar from others, I personally dont think hes anything special.

Maybe we've just been blessed with better centre half's previously and a little like Trafford, I'm just seeing far inferior players to the ones under Dyche

I’d say that’s inevitable.

You can only really compare Esteve at 21 to Mee/Tarks at 21.

[NewClaret]

I think all the chopping and changing hasn't helped him and he's not ready to be the senior defensive partner but I could see him developing into a solid premier league defender.

If he'd spent this season playing alongside Mee I think he'd have looked considerably more assured.

Although you look at Collins and he still seems to have a fair few mistakes in him but has gone for good money a few times.

Good point about Collins.

I think any player that plays in a low block will look more solid. If O’Shea played in our old setup alongside Mee I think he’d look a lot better.

I agree with you though, O’Shea has the makings of a Premier League defender.

[claretspice]

I think all the chopping and changing hasn't helped him and he's not ready to be the senior defensive partner but I could see him developing into a solid premier league defender.

If he'd spent this season playing alongside Mee I think he'd have looked considerably more assured.

Although you look at Collins and he still seems to have a fair few mistakes in him but has gone for good money a few times.

I think O'Shea has done fine overall. At this stage, he looks to me someone who needs a talker alongside him (agree with the Mee reference) because he can be a bit slow to react to danger in Premier League terms (first goal on Saturday a case in point - O'Shea certainly wasn't to blame for a goal that is really a product of a bad header from Assignon and a very odd bit of defending by Esteve, but Paqueta smelt the possibility of those two errors and O'Shea didn't, and as a result he was the wrong side when Paquetta nicked the ball from Esteve). But he's been head and shoulders our best defender in a defence that hasn't been protected at all well.

As for the three who this thread is about:

- Assignon reminds me a bit of a right sided version of Maatsen, except not quite as good, and I agree that at times he's looked intent on distracting himself from doing his job of defending.

- Esteve has for my money looked extremely raw and is looking weaker every time I see him. He was horribly exposed against Bournemouth who exploited his positioning with a simple ball in behind him time and again, and O'Shea ended up trying to cover the left centre back channel repeatedly (including for both goals) and he looks a bit clumsy in possession too. No question he's got ability and he may well become a top centre back, but it's hard to see right now that he's the answer to the shortcomings that Bayer, Al Dakhiil etc. have shown. He seems cut from very similar, equally raw, cloth.

- Fofana - Of the three signings he's the only one who has improved us. He's added a goal threat, particularly when there's space to run into he looks a threat, even if his finishing has been a bit hit and miss and his close work holding the ball up coming towards the play has been a bit untidy. That's a not dissimilar profile to Foster and what the squad has really lacked all season is a striker with a bit of presence capable of holding the ball and allowing midfield runners to get around and beyond him in the way that Barnes and Rodriguez did at a lower level last season.

[boyyanno]

Good point about Collins.

I think any player that plays in a low block will look more solid. If O’Shea played in our old setup alongside Mee I think he’d look a lot better.

I agree with you though, O’Shea has the makings of a Premier League defender.

I'd agree with all of that.

I remember thinking Shackell was imperious when he was part of the unit as well.

[milkcrate_mosh]

In Esteve and Assignon we've signed two new defenders who have now started 5 games together in which we've conceded 15 goals. I wouldn't say I've warmed to either of them that much yet.

[warksclaret]

I saw Esteve at Palace recently and he was up against Mateta who looked a handful, and I think he played him well that day showing pace and physicality. Personally think he has good potential and very young still

[Quickenthetempo]

I’d say that’s inevitable.

You can only really compare Esteve at 21 to Mee/Tarks at 21.

Our manager thinks he's good for the prem so he should be compared when Tarky and Mee first got in the team in the prem.

[NewClaret]

Our manager thinks he's good for the prem so he should be compared when Tarky and Mee first got in the team in the prem.

Not really, the fact he’s selected to play in the premier league isn’t a reflection on his ability or ceiling.

[jojomk1]

Our manager thinks he's good for the prem so he should be compared when Tarky and Mee first got in the team in the prem.

Our manager thought a number of players were good for the Prem

And that didn't work out