Freeports in the UK

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Spijed
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Freeports in the UK

Post by Spijed » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:34 pm

I've read about the possibility of them being set up in the UK post Brexit, ten at least.

Are they good for a particular area or do they just lead to bad working conditions and poor wages?

Vino blanco
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Vino blanco » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:40 pm

Sounds like another chance for the resident political know-alls to bore us to death. And before you say it, I won't be reading this thread after this. Over to you.

KateR
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:40 pm

I can only talk about what I have seen firsthand, it was good for the area, leading to a lot of new industries and job openings that brought a lot of new projects in that in turn lead to the community mushrooming and increasing benefits. I can not attest or speak to all of them but my thinking is that they are a good thing in certain areas and countries but not needed in every country.

Pstotto
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Pstotto » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:40 pm

Belfast? A Freeport independent city state enclave if the rest of N.I. voted county by county to join the R of I.

You do the maths.

There would be a much smaller border to police.
Last edited by Pstotto on Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bosscat
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Bosscat » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:41 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:34 pm
I've read about the possibility of them being set up in the UK post Brexit, ten at least.

Are they good for a particular area or do they just lead to bad working conditions and poor wages?
Fleetwood was very good ... last time we went a lot of outlets were struggling (online trade killing it)
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Quickenthetempo
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:41 pm

Probably the same benefits and negatives as having a major shopping centre in your area?

Chester Perry
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:45 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:34 pm
I've read about the possibility of them being set up in the UK post Brexit, ten at least.

Are they good for a particular area or do they just lead to bad working conditions and poor wages?
believed to be one of the primary reasons for the Saudi Interest in Newcastle United

Freeports mean no Customs Duties or VAT for goods stored at them - you do get PAYE for the staff

Excellent facility for rich people to move, store and transfer wealth - much of the privately owned arts collections in the world are now stored in Freeports for example.

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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:49 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:45 pm
believed to be one of the primary reasons for the Saudi Interest in Newcastle United

Freeports mean no Customs Duties or VAT for goods stored at them - you do get PAYE for the staff

Excellent facility for rich people to move, store and transfer wealth - much of the privately owned arts collections in the world are now stored in Freeports for example.
Weirdly the Freeports were mentioned in Nolans new film Tenet and it pretty much says what you've said.
That's the extent of my knowledge though :lol:

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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Pstotto » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:49 pm

I wish Beirut had been a freeport...

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:57 pm

I bet Vino blanco is still reading it with his other username

Image

KateR
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:03 pm

just a glimpse of what could be

https://container-mag.com/2020/08/10/fo ... on-thames/

If we look at areas, places like Newcastle could certainly benefit from this IMO of course

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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:13 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:49 pm
Weirdly the Freeports were mentioned in Nolans new film Tenet and it pretty much says what you've said.
That's the extent of my knowledge though :lol:
Should also say that there is a lot of fraud and other "white collar" crime associated with freeports given that in a number of cases they have replaced swiss bank type approaches

KateR
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:28 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:13 pm
Should also say that there is a lot of fraud and other "white collar" crime associated with freeports given that in a number of cases they have replaced swiss bank type approaches
do you see any upside or is it all doom and gloom and a resounding no from you, that they should not even be considered? When replying could you advise if you feel all the Freeports within the EU should be shutdown, due to these thoughts as part of the downside?

Chester Perry
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:40 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:28 pm
do you see any upside or is it all doom and gloom and a resounding no from you, that they should not even be considered? When replying could you advise if you feel all the Freeports within the EU should be shutdown, due to these thoughts as part of the downside?
I suspect there is no real option, freeports are here to stay and are already distorting trade around the world, it is a newer model but I just feel it is more akin to "free-trade" heritage of Tudor Piracy and the likes of the East India company - which is absolutely nothing to be proud of or to want back as the norm.

What I would really like to see is real jobs that people can be proud of, that allow them comfortable lives above the bread line, under reasonable working conditions. In our town that would not have to be a huge income but it would make a hell of a difference to the way people lived and cared for each other. - Then again our town would never be considered as a freeport area.
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KateR
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:40 pm
I suspect there is no real option, freeports are here to stay and are already distorting trade around the world, it is a newer model but I just feel it is more akin to "free-trade" heritage of Tudor Piracy and the likes of the East India company - which is absolutely nothing to be proud of or to want back as the norm.

What I would really like to see is real jobs that people can be proud of, that allow them comfortable lives above the bread line, under reasonable working conditions. In our town that would not have to be a huge income but it would make a hell of a difference to the way people lived and cared for each other. - Then again our town would never be considered as a freeport area.
I believe, if Freeports are done properly, they can be of great benefit but there are downsides for sure and these have to be managed accordingly, they need to be introduced to drive new business and provide jobs and for some businesses to set up and attract serious projects of various sizes. All of which could translate to an area growth and increased GDP but it is not just an easy fix, yet I believe it would be of benefit in the grand scheme of things. As you say our town would never be considered, however some people from the town could potentially benefit but it will be to a very small degree and hardly count, but the town could do more than it does do to improve, but that's a different story.

Chester Perry
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:08 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:55 pm
the town could do more than it does do to improve, but that's a different story.
Of that we are in complete agreement
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jurek
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by jurek » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:15 pm

Could Burnley become a Freeport?
Might help the club substantially.
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kritichris
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by kritichris » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:19 pm

Freeports seem to be tax avoidance schemes, barely legal, imo.#, something akin to offshore tax havens.

Inchy
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Inchy » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:20 pm

I’m no expert but surely it’s impossible to create a Freeport without exploitation

KateR
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:28 pm

Inchy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:20 pm
I’m no expert but surely it’s impossible to create a Freeport without exploitation
why? What or who did the Freeport on the Thames that ended 2012 exploit?

They are not tax avoidance schemes, anything coming in, can not leave into the rest of the UK without being taxed, but it may be taxed at a different rate than say the parts of what are allowed into the port as to what leaves the port. Everyone working in the port has to pay taxes in the ones I have seen, it's not like individuals going to work in the port get classed as expats.

Just to be clear I am no expert either in Freeports

Inchy
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Inchy » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:29 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:28 pm
why? What or who did the Freeport on the Thames that ended 2012 exploit?

They are not tax avoidance schemes, anything coming in, can not leave into the rest of the UK without being taxed, but it may be taxed at a different rate than say the parts of what are allowed into the port as to what leaves the port. Everyone working in the port has to pay taxes in the ones I have seen, it's not like individuals going to work in the port get classed as expats.

The Thames wasn’t a true Freeport, although I’m sure you already know that.

aggi
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:53 pm

I've been to the one in Panama a few times (the Colon Free Zone). It's a weird place. Nothing can come into the country beyond as obviously it triggers duty so it's basically just people doing deals and goods going straight in and out again. Obviously being placed on the Panama canal is a much better location than Newcastle or Liverpool or whatever.

It does have some benefits, it will provide some employment, generate some taxes, but I'm not convinced that there will be much of a wider benefit.

KateR
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm

Inchy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:29 pm
The Thames wasn’t a true Freeport, although I’m sure you already know that.
it was a step in that direction, do you know of any exploitation, and not one I am advocating as the way to go, the 1980's Freeports have continued to evolve to the 2011 ones and many for the better, again I don't know all of them, the move to a freeport 2020 will exploit who then and how?

you can expand the question to the numerous freeports that were in the UK previously

Inchy
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Inchy » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:12 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm
it was a step in that direction, do you know of any exploitation, and not one I am advocating as the way to go, the 1980's Freeports have continued to evolve to the 2011 ones and many for the better, again I don't know all of them, the move to a freeport 2020 will exploit who then and how?

you can expand the question to the numerous freeports that were in the UK previously


No.


All I know is I’ve been to fleetwood and it’s rubbish
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kritichris
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by kritichris » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:19 pm

Inchy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:12 pm
All I know is I’ve been to fleetwood and it’s rubbish
I'll swallow the bait, Fleetwood's Freeport was just a retail outlet using the name "Freeport" to imply bargains and yes it was poor, it's now being reinvented as a "Retail outlet" with a different name. For the record there's a brilliant chippy just around the corner, tax free on takeaways.

Inchy
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Inchy » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:21 pm

kritichris wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:19 pm
I'll swallow the bait, Fleetwood's Freeport was just a retail outlet using the name "Freeport" to imply bargains and yes it was poor, it's now being reinvented as a "Retail outlet" with a different name. For the record there's a brilliant chippy just around the corner, tax free on takeaways.


Fleetwood is no doubt a good plaice to go fishing
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KateR
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:25 pm

as always there are numerous ways to run a freeport, it will all depend on what is intended for these locations, just having goods come in and out as they are is a waste of time, but if you were for example to model it on the Jebel Ali then you attract much more and numerous benefits can be met. It wont be easy and it won't look like Jebel Ali day one but the growth is then available for many.

Rowls
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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Rowls » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:06 am

Spijed wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:34 pm
I've read about the possibility of them being set up in the UK post Brexit, ten at least.

Are they good for a particular area or do they just lead to bad working conditions and poor wages?
Here's how it worked out for Singapore:

https://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=118

Could the UK follow suit?

https://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=2125

What's the alternative and how did Cuba fare?

https://humanprogress.org/article?p=2424

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Re: Freeports in the UK

Post by Rowls » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:08 am

jurek wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:15 pm
Could Burnley become a Freeport?
Might help the club substantially.
Hell yeah. Now we're talking!

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