Harry Wilson

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cbx750
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by cbx750 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:03 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:16 am
Don't think there is any link between them. It was often said that Thomas had played a part in Wright coming to Burnley but that wasn't Wright's version a couple of weeks ago when they did that feature on the live game. He said it was down to the relationship he'd had with Stan at Crystal Palace.
He needs to get his stories straight, perhaps he's fallen out with Mitchell.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... ell-fixed/

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:07 pm

Whatever Liverpool end up selling him for....have a look what theyre selling Brewster to Sheff Utd for

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by kentonclaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:24 pm

I am sure that other clubs viewed our valuation of Tarkowski at £50 million in the same way that we view clubs valuations of players that we may be interested in buying. All clubs add a "premium" and hope to strike the best deal possible for them.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:43 pm

Hopefully, we have probably woken up to the fact that none of the other clubs seem to be remotely interested in signing Wilson, especially after his shop window performance last night. Leeds might have thrown a casual glance his way a few week ago, but they quickly moved on.

Liverpool are rolling out the hype machine and their press office is working over-time, along with his agent, to try and stimulate a bidding war that is never going to happen. They are obviously trying to pull off another Solanke sale.

In respect to the cup game against Arsenal Klopp had this to say

" Harry Wilson, my God, played in centre-mid more or less in position No.8, defended well and I saw his football skills as well. I liked a lot of parts of the game but we lost in the end and that’s the part I don’t like."

What game was he watching, Wilson was anonymous for most of the match. He didn't just go missing he put in a disappearing act worthy of a Vegas strip magician. He only stood out when he missed the penalty.

If Klopp has developed the ability to detect the unseen elements of the world he should be drafted into our fight against Corona. With his new visionary super powers he should be able to detect any infected people at a glance - a few more like him and we won't need to increase testing.

A reasonable offer for Wilson, coming from us ( bearing in mind that we need good value and we are thrifty ) should be 4m plus add-ons. He isn't worth any more than that.

If we pay 15m+ all in that could be his top end value for his entire career. I can't see him developing into a player that will earn us money by ever going much above that. Given the impact on our funds due to the virus 15m+ could represent the greater part of everything we have prudently stored away in our dry powder store. That could easily put us into a position next Summer were we have no option but to sell before we buy.

Putting all of our financial eggs in this Wilson doesn't make any sense. If he plays on the right wing our shape will evaporate along with the scraps our strikers live on. They will quickly find themselves in full on starvation mode. We should be bringing in a creative force that will put more chances on their players not less.

If he plays in centre midfield as part of a 4-5-1 ( he doesn't have the physical stature to do any other job in Central Midfield ) we will be down to one striker. That means three of them will be relegated to the bench, counting the money they are being paid to do nothing, unhappy about not getting any game time and their perceived values will diminish from decreased exposure.

Daft from a playing perspective and ridiculous from a financial perspective.

I genuinely don't know how he got on our target list in the first place. It could be that our new European Scout ( Lee Jones ) who previously maxed out scouting Non League and League One players for Tranmere had his eye on him. After Tranmere moved him on his next job was scouting Wales for Swansea. If that gross speculation is true then we will no doubt be chasing after Connor Roberts from Swansea next Summer as the right back we need to make Wilson tick.

Roberts isn't a top choice pick, but at least he can play a bit and he wouldn't represent an expensive cross your fingers and hope financial outlay. If we have our hearts set on a Welsh man we should buy him instead and give Wilson the wide berth he deserves. Swansea currently have three right backs and we could use Roberts in the right midfield slot for this season.

Add a creative winger to our shopping list, like Osayi-Samuel or Niclas Eliasson, and we would have two better players, who fit our system ( Roberts could maybe cover our future right back need ) for less than the rumoured cost of Wilson.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:55 pm

Got to admit that Wilson didn't pull up any trees last night, but to be fair, neither did anyone else in the team. Yes, he missed a penalty, but so did two other players.

He's been at Liverpool since he was seven, that's some 16 years. I guess that means that various managers and coaches have all thought he had something to offer. The problem he's got at the moment is being a little fish in a very big pond. Maybe as a bit bigger fish in a somewhat smaller pond, he might do better?

That said, if we are only likely to bring in one player before the deadline, I'd rather it was Roca or Christie.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Bigvince » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:59 pm

Not sure I like the move for Wilson, Liverpool have a track record for getting large sums of money for average players. I admit though it was usually Eddie Howe that bought them

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:01 pm

Boden has tweeted that he has had a message to say the Wilson deal wont happen
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by dandeclaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:02 pm

Chris Boden tweeted that he received a message saying "Any deal for Harry Wilson will not now happen" - or similar to that. On to the next target then.... 4 days to go or whatever there is.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Bigvince » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:04 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:02 pm
Chris Boden tweeted that he received a message saying "Any deal for Harry Wilson will not now happen" - or similar to that. On to the next target then.... 4 days to go or whatever there is.
I hope we have another target!

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:04 pm

So that's it for Wilson then, basically. Next.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by jojomk1 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:09 pm

Has Lennon found another club - would offer as much as Wilson for a season

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Bosscat » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:12 pm

If Liverpool aren't careful
edc62dfa8ea898b323f7959bccfb99d1.jpg
edc62dfa8ea898b323f7959bccfb99d1.jpg (36.39 KiB) Viewed 4037 times
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by wilks_bfc » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:17 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:09 pm
Has Lennon found another club - would offer as much as Wilson for a season
He’s gone to Kayserispor in Turkey

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by burnleymik » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:19 pm

Obviously we don't know the specifics, but it sounded like we were very close. Were we pinching pennies and ended up losing another target with only days to go?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Zlatan » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:25 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:19 pm
Obviously we don't know the specifics, but it sounded like we were very close. Were we pinching pennies and ended up losing another target with only days to go?
Or dodged a bullet... all about perspective isn't it...

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by jedi_master » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:26 pm

Disappointing for sure, but it does lead me to think we were maybe only going ahead with such a big signing if Tarkowski left.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by burnleymik » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:27 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:25 pm
Or dodged a bullet... all about perspective isn't it...
I know what you mean, but some cover is better than playing Pieters there!
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:27 pm

I think we over offered at the rumoured 12+4 million, I know we need bodies but I'm not in the slightest bit unhappy about this falling through at Liverpool's valuation
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by RVclaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:28 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:19 pm
Obviously we don't know the specifics, but it sounded like we were very close. Were we pinching pennies and ended up losing another target with only days to go?
Andy Jones from the Athletic saying Liverpool wanted £20m including £15m upfront/guaranteed.

If that’s the case then not surprised we weren’t prepared to meet them. But surely the positive is that we do have at least £12m to spend (unless that was only with Tark leaving). Surely we have other targets?
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Duffer_ » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:30 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:28 pm
Andy Jones from the Athletic saying Liverpool wanted £20m including £15m upfront/guaranteed.

If that’s the case then not surprised we weren’t prepared to meet them. But surely the positive is that we do have at least £12m to spend (unless that was only with Tark leaving). Surely we have other targets?
That's how I see it too. If Liverpool get that then they will have had a rival's pants down. I don't think they will though and can see more twists ahead.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by burnleymik » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:38 pm

No idea if it was true, but I kept seeing that Liverpool wanted 16 million straight up, without the add ons.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by tiger76 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:42 pm

On balance I'd say we're better walking away from the Wilson deal, he didn't strike me as any better than what we have on his performance last night, and £12m with add-on's is a lot for a club of Burnley's means to pay.

I'd rather we tried to snatch a couple of Championship players at a reasonable fee (Osayi-Samuel or Niclas Eliasson) have both been mentioned, and you'd hope the Brownhill connection in the former, and the Wells/Warburton link in the latter could help us in any transfer talks.

Brewster has gone to Sheff Utd for £23m this morning, that's crazy money for a lad who's hardly pulled up any trees, he did OK at Swansea during his loan spell, but the PL is a whole different ball game, and the lad has never kicked a ball for Liverpool's 1st team, they appear to be following the Chelsea model and getting their youngsters on long-term contracts, before sending them out on loan, and then cashing in on them.

Jordan Ibe and Dominic Solanke spring to mind, we're better playing safe, rather than splashing a large fee on an unproven kid, who will no doubt command big wages as well.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by BOYSIE31 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:43 pm

Wilson scored 7 goals last season in a struggling side from out wide - how many did our wingers manage - 7 between them ?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:45 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:42 pm
On balance I'd say we're better walking away from the Wilson deal, he didn't strike me as any better than what we have on his performance last night, and £12m with add-on's is a lot for a club of Burnley's means to pay.

I'd rather we tried to snatch a couple of Championship players at a reasonable fee (Osayi-Samuel or Niclas Eliasson) have both been mentioned, and you'd hope the Brownhill connection in the former, and the Wells/Warburton link in the latter could help us in any transfer talks.

Brewster has gone to Sheff Utd for £23m this morning, that's crazy money for a lad who's hardly pulled up any trees, he did OK at Swansea during his loan spell, but the PL is a whole different ball game, and the lad has never kicked a ball for Liverpool's 1st team, they appear to be following the Chelsea model and getting their youngsters on long-term contracts, before sending them out on loan, and then cashing in on them.

Jordan Ibe and Dominic Solanke spring to mind, we're better playing safe, rather than splashing a large fee on an unproven kid, who will no doubt command big wages as well.
I sometimes wonder whether the club even acknowledge players such as Eliasson, but it looks like we're going to have to be looking at players of at least that quality if we're to improve what we already have.

It sounds very much like we'll have from now until a week on Thursday to bring in 1, ideally 2, players from the Championship.

Fortunately, we only have 1 remaining game in that time.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Mattster » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:46 pm

We've done right backing out if they weren't willing to budge on that valuation - no one else is paying it and I think Liverpool will regret this decision. Unlike LTL I do think Wilson would have been a good fit and an anonymous performance out of position in a disjointed rotation side doesn't change my opinion on that but the deal didn't really represent value at £12m + £4m so it certainly doesn't at £15m + £5m. Let's not become Liverpool's new Bournemouth.

Hopefully we move on and spend on better value targets leaving Liverpool lumped with a player they neither want nor need for 6-12 months before they sell him for half what we offered.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:50 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:28 pm

If that’s the case then not surprised we weren’t prepared to meet them. But surely the positive is that we do have at least £12m to spend (unless that was only with Tark leaving). Surely we have other targets?
Niclas Eliasson - £2-3m ( left wing / right wing )
Connor Roberts - £4-6m ( right back / right midfield / left back )
Ben Davies - £5-6m ( centre back left )
Ryan Manning - £2-3m ( left midfield / left back )

£13-18m total spend ( figures are very rough guesses with no supporting evidence )

Matt O'Riley and Andre Green on free transfers for the development squad- if they aren't hung up on getting league game time.

Ben Whiteman - £2-3 if we want to push the boat out

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by wickdkewlclaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:51 pm

I just don’t think the club are going to spend any money at all.

I know a few contractors who have done work at the Turf and are struggling to get paid by the club.

Possibly due to the takeover.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by tiger76 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:53 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:43 pm
Wilson scored 7 goals last season in a struggling side from out wide - how many did our wingers manage - 7 between them ?
It's worth remembering that Bournemouth got relegated last season, and how many of those 7 goals were fk's, I'm not convinced we should be paying huge bucks for Wilson, and like it or not £12-15m is huge bucks by our standards.

I don't disagree we need new blood out wide, mainly because Brady & JBG are so brittle, but surely we can scout some bargains from the Championship, clubs there will be looking to trim their squads, and there should be value in the latter stages of the window as clubs become more desperate to offload players, don't forgot the deadline for EFL clubs is the 17th October, so even if we don't sign anyone before Monday, we've still got a couple of weeks to deal with EFL sides.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by MACCA » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:54 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:19 pm
Obviously we don't know the specifics, but it sounded like we were very close. Were we pinching pennies and ended up losing another target with only days to go?
That doesn't sound very Burnley like, there's bound to be a very good reason for us pulling out.

Plan L might have become available for a fraction of the price allowing us to keep those season ticket prices frozen.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:57 pm

Mattster wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:46 pm
We've done right backing out if they weren't willing to budge on that valuation - no one else is paying it and I think Liverpool will regret this decision. Unlike LTL I do think Wilson would have been a good fit and an anonymous performance out of position in a disjointed rotation side doesn't change my opinion on that but the deal didn't really represent value at £12m + £4m so it certainly doesn't at £15m + £5m. Let's not become Liverpool's new Bournemouth.

Hopefully we move on and spend on better value targets leaving Liverpool lumped with a player they neither want nor need for 6-12 months before they sell him for half what we offered.
We have done well backing out of transfers in previous windows when clubs asked too much of us for their players.

We lost Britt Assombalonga when Middlesbrough blew us out of the water with a bid of 15m and we got Chris Wood instead.

We lost Sam Clucas to Swansea when they stepped in with a bid of 15m and they sold him a year later for 6m.

I won't lose any sleep that we missed out on Wilson because we weren't prepared to bankrupt our dry powder store to buy him.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:03 pm

Deal is off according to Boden. Close thread :)

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:09 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:43 pm
Wilson scored 7 goals last season in a struggling side from out wide - how many did our wingers manage - 7 between them ?
He scored 5 goals from open play (same as McNeil) and had 0 (zero) assists (11 for McNeil) which is terrible for a winger and is probably why his crossing accuracy was 11%.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by leightonjameslegend » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:10 pm

Reports Liverpool pulled any deal.
Previously they were only looking at loaning Brewster but now Sheff Utd has gone for a transfer the money balances things out.
Then it looks like it was one of Shaqiri or Wilson, so with Shaqiri no need to sell.

Let's hope we have a plan B? If we are relying on both JBG and Brady to stay fit all season we are in trouble,

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Zlatan » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:19 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:03 pm
Deal is off according to Boden. Close thread :)
Gonna happen at 4:30pm today then... :D

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:19 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:42 am
ooppss
That's nothing we haven't known for a day or two now

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ashtonlongsider » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:26 pm

If the rumours are correct, it's a relief imo. Not seen anything to suggest this guy is going to an upgrade on what we already have.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:26 pm

Mattster wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:46 pm
We've done right backing out if they weren't willing to budge on that valuation - no one else is paying it and I think Liverpool will regret this decision. Unlike LTL I do think Wilson would have been a good fit and an anonymous performance out of position in a disjointed rotation side doesn't change my opinion on that but the deal didn't really represent value at £12m + £4m so it certainly doesn't at £15m + £5m. Let's not become Liverpool's new Bournemouth.

Hopefully we move on and spend on better value targets leaving Liverpool lumped with a player they neither want nor need for 6-12 months before they sell him for half what we offered.
I'd rather we were Liverpools new Southampton :lol:

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:31 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:19 pm
That's nothing we haven't known for a day or two now
yeah I noticed your comment the other day and articles, honestly, I'm not bothered about missing out at their valuation

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:33 pm

ashtonlongsider wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:26 pm
If the rumours are correct, it's a relief imo. Not seen anything to suggest this guy is going to an upgrade on what we already have.
Well at the moment, we don't have a RM. I know what you mean though, but we do still need a RM. JBG would be superb if he stayed free from injury, but he can only be a bit part player. We need someone coming in who can play the majority of games down the right and do it well.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:34 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:53 pm
It's worth remembering that Bournemouth got relegated last season, and how many of those 7 goals were fk's, I'm not convinced we should be paying huge bucks for Wilson, and like it or not £12-15m is huge bucks by our standards.

I don't disagree we need new blood out wide, mainly because Brady & JBG are so brittle, but surely we can scout some bargains from the Championship, clubs there will be looking to trim their squads, and there should be value in the latter stages of the window as clubs become more desperate to offload players, don't forgot the deadline for EFL clubs is the 17th October, so even if we don't sign anyone before Monday, we've still got a couple of weeks to deal with EFL sides.
2 of Wilsons goals were from free kicks.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Bullabill » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:38 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:50 pm


Ben Whiteman - £2-3 if we want to push the boat out
Two to three quid? Is the boat on Thomson Park Lake?
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Leisure » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:41 pm

leightonjameslegend wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:10 pm

Let's hope we have a plan B? If we are relying on both JBG and Brady to stay fit all season we are in trouble,
They were out for a fair chunk of last season but we did OK.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by agreenwood » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:45 pm

We don’t really trust the overseas market.

We don’t like to pay the domestic fees.

It really does leave us nowhere, window after window.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by tiger76 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:47 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:09 pm
He scored 5 goals from open play (same as McNeil) and had 0 (zero) assists (11 for McNeil) which is terrible for a winger and is probably why his crossing accuracy was 11%.
And that's in a team that like to attack primarily, I watched a few of Bournemouth's games after the restart, and he rarely tracked back and helped his full-back, and that was in the midst of a relegation battle, for the money being suggested, we're well advised to socially distance from this transfer, if he's so good let Leeds or Southampton take him on, and see what they can get out of him.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:51 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:47 pm
And that's in a team that like to attack primarily, I watched a few of Bournemouth's games after the restart, and he rarely tracked back and helped his full-back, and that was in the midst of a relegation battle, for the money being suggested, we're well advised to socially distance from this transfer, if he's so good let Leeds or Southampton take him on, and see what they can get out of him.
Nobody tracks back at Bournemouth - I recall all the fuss a year ago when Huddersfield went down and people wanted us to sign Billing from them. He went to Bournemouth. Have you ever see a lazier midfield player?
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:52 pm

agreenwood wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:45 pm
We don’t really trust the overseas market.

We don’t like to pay the domestic fees.

It really does leave us nowhere, window after window.
Garlick will be able to trot out his usual 'end the window stronger' given we've got Stephens in and no one has actually gone out during the window.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:52 pm

Bullabill wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:38 pm
Two to three quid? Is the boat on Thomson Park Lake?
Oops £2-3m - I suspect it would be the lower end or less ( Benson and Goodridge going the other way on loan ).

Looks like we can cross Eliasson off that list as well. Off to Nimes for £2.25m.

At that price we could have hardly gone wrong with signing him, but we were chasing after the headline grabber while others were being practical. No money at all and he would have only needed to be better than ........... nobody, to increase our strength and options.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Mattster » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:57 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:52 pm
Garlick will be able to trot out his usual 'end the window stronger' given we've got Stephens in and no one has actually gone out during the window.
That's some politics level doublespeak given in reality we're down Hendrick, Lennon, Hart and Gibson this window.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:58 pm

Mattster wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:57 pm
That's some politics level doublespeak given in reality we're down Hendrick, Lennon, Hart and Gibson this window.
You know that, I know that, but he could say three of those four didn't leave during this window. To be honest, I'd forgotten about Gibson.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by agreenwood » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:01 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:52 pm
Garlick will be able to trot out his usual 'end the window stronger' given we've got Stephens in and no one has actually gone out during the window.
That’d be sheer pedantry if he did. We lost 2 outfield players who were in matchday squad pre-lockdown and our record signing has gone to Norwich on loan.

It’s not just the fans asking him to loosen the purse strings, it’s the clubs most valuable member of staff.

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