Harry Wilson
Re: Harry Wilson
Newcastle interested.
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Re: Harry Wilson
The problem is that if option 3 is taken and we get relegated then option 2 is a reality. Any plan has to absolutely be about retaining premier league status and if there is some risk associated with that plan, it’s a risk we would have to take. That risk is probably more manageable long term than taking option 3 and achieving option 2.TVC15 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:39 am100%
To suggest that MG and the board have done little or nothing and it’s all down to SD is ludicrous. SD would never say that was the case.
The particular poster seems to be saying he understands our financial accounts because he has been a shareholder for 30 years - like that is some kind of qualification !
I’ve said lots of times this is not about “cash in the bank” or £140m of revenue - it’s pretty not much anything to do with our historical performance (other than its a good job MG has not burdened the club with debt).
It’s all about MG‘s forward looking view - and the very real uncertainty and risk that exists in terms of the impact of Covid and future TV deals.
There’s a very good chance that we are left with these options to avoid potentially large losses in the next 3 years or so :
1) new investment / take over.
2) relegation (and associated reduction in wages / sale of player assets etc)
3) reduce our wage bill / overall costs to a level that MG and the board think is necessary to avoid large losses.
I’m pretty sure MG doesn’t want no2 but is aware that may well be a consequence of option 3. Whilst it seems like we are actively trying to make option 1 happen MG cannot just rely on that happening and not do anything in relation to option 3....he has to do both.
Would be my summary of what I think is happening !!
As it happens, it appears highly likely they are going for option 1.
Re: Harry Wilson
I said option 3 might lead to option 2.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:47 amThe problem is that if option 3 is taken and we get relegated then option 2 is a reality. Any plan has to absolutely be about retaining premier league status and if there is some risk associated with that plan, it’s a risk we would have to take. That risk is probably more manageable long term than taking option 3 and achieving option 2.
As it happens, it appears highly likely they are going for option 1.
In terms of taking a risk to try and secure our status I’m sure there is already an element of risk to what we are doing.
But I’m not sure how MG and the rest of the board can do what some people seem to be calling for and spend what they haven’t got. None of them want to put any money into the club to subsidise any losses.
The point about option 2 is that MG may have worked out that with the reduction in wages from relegation clauses in players contracts and the inevitable exit and sale of our best players then this would mean that financially the club would not be facing losses.
Obviously we are stuffed after that point in terms of trying to get promoted.
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Re: Harry Wilson
Re losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
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Re: Harry Wilson
We’ve really dropped a bollock not getting Eliasson in at a fraction of the cost, Wilson on his last showing is nowhere near a £15m player. Happy for a loan for him but that’s it tbh.
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Re: Harry Wilson
Well looking at figures I've seen and that Royboy confirmed, we're making just under £5 million profit a season. If the £40 million dry powder is correct, there's also apparently a chance of a rebate to the TV companies due to Covid.Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 amRe losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny prince doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
So overall it wouldn't leave us with much, unless we gambled the last pennies we have.
Re: Harry Wilson
We may well be able to afford 15m....perhaps we don't think he's worth thatWoodleyclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 amRe losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
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Re: Harry Wilson
If our profit is £5m a season, and we take away match day income, where does that leave us? In a loss making position I presume. That’s why we are watching what we spend. We could easily go bust if we aren’t careful
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Re: Harry Wilson
How do we function as a Premier League club going forward then ?claret2018 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:34 amIf our profit is £5m a season, and we take away match day income, where does that leave us? In a loss making position I presume. That’s why we are watching what we spend. We could easily go bust if we aren’t careful
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Re: Harry Wilson
If we continue without crowds, then we can’t really. Simple as that.randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:37 amHow do we function as a Premier League club going forward then ?
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Re: Harry Wilson
Profit on player sales and aim for youth to come through to sell at a profit. Or - get a takeover who has money to invest.randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:37 amHow do we function as a Premier League club going forward then ?
Re: Harry Wilson
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:38 amProfit on player sales and aim for youth to come through to sell at a profit. Or - get a takeover who has money to invest.
So the guy that saw this as the way forward, andwanted to go down that route is right.
Wonder what else the guy was right about?
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Re: Harry Wilson
TVC15
With all your options except 1 will lead to losing the manager if it’s not the case already with a break down in communication
MG will then have to appoint a new one
Good Luck With that
With all your options except 1 will lead to losing the manager if it’s not the case already with a break down in communication
MG will then have to appoint a new one
Good Luck With that
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Re: Harry Wilson
Everyone just take a step back
We have set up a whole new recruitment department
And the only person we have signed is Dale Stephens, who is an okay cm at this level (but surely 4th choice behind Cork, Westwood and Brownhill)
He was a target four years ago, and we are linked with players who were also a target over previous seasons.
All UK based.
Now at what stage do we think that this incredibly unambitious, expensive and really narrow market that we shop in is the fault of more than just Garlick et al.
SD bears some responsibility here as well, whatever he says in press conferences.
That doesn't change anything about him being the best manager we've ever had, or that he's doing miracles with bugger all, but he's got his way, and it might not be helping us in refreshing the squad.
We have set up a whole new recruitment department
And the only person we have signed is Dale Stephens, who is an okay cm at this level (but surely 4th choice behind Cork, Westwood and Brownhill)
He was a target four years ago, and we are linked with players who were also a target over previous seasons.
All UK based.
Now at what stage do we think that this incredibly unambitious, expensive and really narrow market that we shop in is the fault of more than just Garlick et al.
SD bears some responsibility here as well, whatever he says in press conferences.
That doesn't change anything about him being the best manager we've ever had, or that he's doing miracles with bugger all, but he's got his way, and it might not be helping us in refreshing the squad.
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Re: Harry Wilson
Agree, when money is so tight I can’t understand why we weren’t in for a proven Championship winger at that money. Type of player you’d expect to hold on to if we went down. Would’ve provided cover for JBG with the potential to develop. Right age. Frustrating.Giftonsnoidea wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:31 amWe’ve really dropped a bollock not getting Eliasson in at a fraction of the cost, Wilson on his last showing is nowhere near a £15m player. Happy for a loan for him but that’s it tbh.
Re: Harry Wilson
We should always have player sales as our model. I’ve been shot down on here saying that, in the past.
Hopefully the scouting and academy improvements will deliver that although so far, it doesn’t appear to be the case (obviously it’s a longer process with the academy).
We just don’t seem to be identifying, or willing to go for, the players ahead of their bigger moves (the point before their value is above our budget). The likes of McGinn, Zayech, Barnes, Maddison (and plenty of other examples). How much could we have banked had we gone for one or two of these, early?
Hopefully the scouting and academy improvements will deliver that although so far, it doesn’t appear to be the case (obviously it’s a longer process with the academy).
We just don’t seem to be identifying, or willing to go for, the players ahead of their bigger moves (the point before their value is above our budget). The likes of McGinn, Zayech, Barnes, Maddison (and plenty of other examples). How much could we have banked had we gone for one or two of these, early?
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Re: Harry Wilson
Of course he (SD) bears some responsibility but it seems to me like there has been a lot of players identified but we just don't have the finance to get the deals done. Hence, SD always talking about prices, even for League One players being silly, his reference to stretching the finances and also that he doesnt sign the cheques.Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:59 amEveryone just take a step back
We have set up a whole new recruitment department
And the only person we have signed is Dale Stephens, who is an okay cm at this level (but surely 4th choice behind Cork, Westwood and Brownhill)
He was a target four years ago, and we are linked with players who were also a target over previous seasons.
All UK based.
Now at what stage do we think that this incredibly unambitious, expensive and really narrow market that we shop in is the fault of more than just Garlick et al.
SD bears some responsibility here as well, whatever he says in press conferences.
That doesn't change anything about him being the best manager we've ever had, or that he's doing miracles with bugger all, but he's got his way, and it might not be helping us in refreshing the squad.
It's all well and good then saying well why aren't we targeting people within our price range but maybe those players aren't really good enough to push our group on.
Pretty clear and obvious to anybody now that MG has taken the club as far as he can (and he's been magnificent by the way) and a takeover is the only way to keep moving the club forward.
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Re: Harry Wilson
I don't think it would be possible in most cases or extremely hard, lots of the academy promising young starlets are constantly contracted whilst at they respective clubs & loaned out & in most cases upon impact the values soars almost instantly, it's not through want of trying, a few escape through the net as the talent isn't spotted at the time & they fail to secure a contract extension & then released, the people involved know almost straightaway if so & so will make it & there will have a fair probable premonition based on a track record of getting it right.DCWat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:01 pmWe should always have player sales as our model. I’ve been shot down on here saying that, in the past.
Hopefully the scouting and academy improvements will deliver that although so far, it doesn’t appear to be the case (obviously it’s a longer process with the academy).
We just don’t seem to be identifying, or willing to go for, the players ahead of their bigger moves (the point before their value is above our budget). The likes of McGinn, Zayech, Barnes, Maddison (and plenty of other examples). How much could we have banked had we gone for one or two of these, early?
Re: Harry Wilson
They aren’t my options - they are the options and dilemma that I am making an educated guess MG is facing.Wokingclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:51 amTVC15
With all your options except 1 will lead to losing the manager if it’s not the case already with a break down in communication
MG will then have to appoint a new one
Good Luck With that
You seem to be very good at pointing the finger at MG and the rest of the board but unless I’ve missed something you have not made a suggestion as to what else the club can do given our current financial situation and nobody on the board seemingly prepared to subsidise the club as is clearly happening at almost every other club in our league.
Since you have been a shareholder for so many years you must have some suggestions ?
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Re: Harry Wilson
you are going to have to lay it out in a far more reasoned, evidence based, forward looking, numbers featuring format than holding your finger in the air way than this if you want to sound like you have a legitimate case on which to base your thoughts - there have been plenty of such posts demonstrating the opposite of your view in the last few months and zero supporting it.Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 amRe losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
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Re: Harry Wilson
I haven’t seen much of Eliasson, but he must be a world beater, judging by some posters obsession with him!
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Re: Harry Wilson
Go on YouTube look at his crosses, Wood and Barnes would have had a field day with those, at the money quoted we would have filled our most problematic position too and he fit our budget (seemingly non existent).
Re: Harry Wilson
There’s a difference between can afford to pay £15m and not willing to pay £15m for Wilson. I’m pretty sure it the latter. He hasn’t done anything to warrant that price. I hope we laughed when Liverpool even suggested such a stupid figure. Or at least a little “Nah sorry you don’t understand, we’re after Wilson. Not Wilson and Salah”.Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 amRe losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
Last edited by Dyched on Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harry Wilson
I beleive his heat map was very impressive.
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Re: Harry Wilson
There must be some reason why no other prem club didn’t take a punt on him either at the money being quoted.Giftonsnoidea wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:47 pmGo on YouTube look at his crosses, Wood and Barnes would have had a field day with those, at the money quoted we would have filled our most problematic position too and he fit our budget (seemingly non existent).
Re: Harry Wilson
Not many other established premier league sides shop in the bargain basket.
Of those that might, there wont be many again that play 2 up top and play direct football shall we say.
We shop in a very unique market it seems
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Re: Harry Wilson
"Go on You Tube look at his crosses"
Eliasson or maybe better known as "On my head Son"
Eliasson or maybe better known as "On my head Son"
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Re: Harry Wilson
We have the best manager in charge of the Club during my time, who has demonstrated for 4 seasons that he can keep a club of our size in this division. He has to be backed which, he has not been so far in this window. Anything else is a major risk and may not end well.TVC15 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:39 pmThey aren’t my options - they are the options and dilemma that I am making an educated guess MG is facing.
You seem to be very good at pointing the finger at MG and the rest of the board but unless I’ve missed something you have not made a suggestion as to what else the club can do given our current financial situation and nobody on the board seemingly prepared to subsidise the club as is clearly happening at almost every other club in our league.
Since you have been a shareholder for so many years you must have some suggestions ?
I look forward to what MG has to say at the end of the domestic window.
Re: Harry Wilson
Where's the smiley?
Re: Harry Wilson
According to Long Time Lurker's heat maps Wilson's positioning and movement was very similar to JBG's. If we don't sign him this window we should (imo) keep a close eye on him.
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Re: Harry Wilson
I expect that to be silence. But I'm still in hope we can sign 1-2 players from the Championship. I feel the ship has sailed regarding anything in the Prem.Wokingclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:58 pmI look forward to what MG has to say at the end of the domestic window.
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Re: Harry Wilson
The ship may well have sailed but let's hope we are not all left with that sinking feeling.
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Re: Harry Wilson
I sea what you did there.kentonclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:06 pmThe ship may well have sailed but let's hope we are not all left with that sinking feeling.
Re: Harry Wilson
So your suggestion is “he has to be backed” ?Wokingclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:58 pmWe have the best manager in charge of the Club during my time, who has demonstrated for 4 seasons that he can keep a club of our size in this division. He has to be backed which, he has not been so far in this window. Anything else is a major risk and may not end well.
I look forward to what MG has to say at the end of the domestic window.
Well done
With what ?
Are you prepared to put money in ?
Re: Harry Wilson
As long as we keep the captain, the ship could be a raft.kentonclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:06 pmThe ship may well have sailed but let's hope we are not all left with that sinking feeling.
The mans a miracle worker, sadly his miracles are now being taken for granted
Re: Harry Wilson
Is anyone aware of a player we have signed in Sean's time with us, that he didnt want ...board driven?
I'm trying to get my head around what's going on within our club.
Is Sean still identifying players and putting it to MG, does he work in unison with the recruitment team and take it to MG, or is it totally out of his hands now and just driven by the recruitment team.
If it's the latter, what it is their brief....given Sean's primary requirement seems to be they have to have the right personality...a proper bloke.
I'm trying to get my head around what's going on within our club.
Is Sean still identifying players and putting it to MG, does he work in unison with the recruitment team and take it to MG, or is it totally out of his hands now and just driven by the recruitment team.
If it's the latter, what it is their brief....given Sean's primary requirement seems to be they have to have the right personality...a proper bloke.
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Re: Harry Wilson
Think Chris Long by Frank McPartlandFactualFrank wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:44 pmSome fans think Vydra was signed against his wishes, but I'd be surprised if that's true.
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Re: Harry Wilson
Let's get Mike out the door first, and then see what the magic man can do when he doesnt have 1 hand tied behind his back and a blindfold on.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:47 pmPerhaps he’s run out of miracles and it’s time for some fresh ideas and motivation. 8 years is a long time.
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Re: Harry Wilson
Mike out the door? Do you have the money to achieve your aim?
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Re: Harry Wilson
Maybe Vydra? Given the way he seemed to be frozen out for a long time.ewanrob wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:30 pmIs anyone aware of a player we have signed in Sean's time with us, that he didnt want ...board driven?
I'm trying to get my head around what's going on within our club.
Is Sean still identifying players and putting it to MG, does he work in unison with the recruitment team and take it to MG, or is it totally out of his hands now and just driven by the recruitment team.
If it's the latter, what it is their brief....given Sean's primary requirement seems to be they have to have the right personality...a proper bloke.
Re: Harry Wilson
And you seem to enjoy talking sh-ite
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Re: Harry Wilson
That's great, its my sh-ite and I'm entitled to it.
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Re: Harry Wilson
Jesus wept, I have seriously read it all now.claret2018 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:34 amIf our profit is £5m a season, and we take away match day income, where does that leave us? In a loss making position I presume. That’s why we are watching what we spend. We could easily go bust if we aren’t careful
Re: Harry Wilson
Yepelwaclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:58 pmMike out the door? Do you have the money to achieve your aim?
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