It was a gamble because he used his business for the loans not his own personal wealth - I would be interested to hear from anyone who can point me to such an instance that hasn't resulted in problems in the medium term, happy to be corrected with genuine examples in English football all the recent examples I am aware of have ended in administration or in the case of Bury worse.Erasmus wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:17 pmInteresting point about the promotion under Coyle and whether it was a gamble. I think what actually happened was the Brendan Flood came forward with significant financial support, which we accepted and used. Then subsequently the financial crash ruined some of Brendan's business interests leaving us to repay loans as demanded by the administrator. So at the time it wasn't so much of a gamble as no one could foresee the financial problems that caused us such problems.
BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Agreed, I’d argue that everything that has happened since has been positively influenced by that gamble.randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:11 pmMaybe the question to ask is where would we be if we hadnt taken that chance and hadnt gone up that year ?
And however we look at it, the kidney was in the form of a loan so needed paying back.
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Yes it worked out for us and looking back it was good for the club.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:50 pmAgreed, I’d argue that everything that has happened since has been positively influenced by that gamble.
And however we look at it, the kidney was in the form of a loan so needed paying back.
But we got very lucky.
We went up through the play offs....deservedly so I accept.
If the fans would have been presented with a scenario that without promotion we would go into administration and start the next season with a 12 point deduction and the associated fire sale of players that comes with administration I am not sure how many would have thought it was an acceptable gamble for the club. It’s very likely we would have been relegated to the first division.
I know this is all ifs and buts but that doesn’t mean it was an acceptable gamble. We often point to the wreckless behaviour of other clubs and whilst we aren’t talking the silly amounts of debt at Bolton etc without promotion we would have been in situation of not being able to repay Modus and nobody on the board able to put in further investment.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Chester, I think that may be hindsight speaking. It would have been hard for the other board members to refuse Brendan Flood's offers at a time when there seemed little risk attached to them. In 2007/08 everyone seemed to presume that the strong economy would just go on and on.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Strong economies NEVER go on and on. Every empire fails once complacency sets in.Erasmus wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:46 pmChester, I think that may be hindsight speaking. It would have been hard for the other board members to refuse Brendan Flood's offers at a time when there seemed little risk attached to them. In 2007/08 everyone seemed to presume that the strong economy would just go on and on.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
I don’t know TVC15, that works both ways. If you’d told fans we are going to take this risk, but if it works we will get promoted, spend 6 of the next ten years in the top flight, have a team containing England internationals, spend comparative millions on players, beat Blackburn every time we play them, have a season in the UEFA cup and beat some of the best teams in the land along the way, I reckon a few would have said “go on then”.TVC15 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:31 pmYes it worked out for us and looking back it was good for the club.
But we got very lucky.
We went up through the play offs....deservedly so I accept.
If the fans would have been presented with a scenario that without promotion we would go into administration and start the next season with a 12 point deduction and the associated fire sale of players that comes with administration I am not sure how many would have thought it was an acceptable gamble for the club. It’s very likely we would have been relegated to the first division.
I know this is all ifs and buts but that doesn’t mean it was an acceptable gamble. We often point to the wreckless behaviour of other clubs and whilst we aren’t talking the silly amounts of debt at Bolton etc without promotion we would have been in situation of not being able to repay Modus and nobody on the board able to put in further investment.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Haha - I ain’t knocking it really. Been the best of times for me as as a supporter of more than 40 years and travelling away and watching us lose at some horrible grounds (though to be honest like most Burnley fans I enjoyed that too !!)arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:12 pmI don’t know TVC15, that works both ways. If you’d told fans we are going to take this risk, but if it works we will get promoted, spend 6 of the next ten years in the top flight, have a team containing England internationals, spend comparative millions on players, beat Blackburn every time we play them, have a season in the UEFA cup and beat some of the best teams in the land along the way, I reckon a few would have said “go on then”.
But I think the point I was making is in that particular season we did pretty much gamble with the livelihood of the club - we definitely did not do that with all the subsequent promotions or maintaining our position in the premier league. We had a massive slice of luck in going up and avoiding what would have been a financial disaster. We’ll take that luck - as fans we deserved it !!
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Back to transfers
Liverpool now looking to loan out Wilson
Liverpool now looking to loan out Wilson
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
When we got promoted 4 or 5 years ago, and someone said to you that we will remain in the PL for 5 years and we were to spend £1m in our most important window when the PL clubs spent £1.25 billion what would you have said
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Ooooooh! Fancy that!
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
That can now only be to a championship club.
Will be interesting to see if that's only until January or for the whole season.
Wonder what Liverpool and the lad are feeling now, could have had a fee and/or playing in the premier league.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Not included in their Champions League squad so shows just how much they don't rate him
And still, they wanted big money - glad we kept away from that deal
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
There were people questioning it at the time, I remember being one of them. The trouble with property businesses is that they are often like a house of cards and if one part gets in trouble they all fall down.Erasmus wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:46 pmChester, I think that may be hindsight speaking. It would have been hard for the other board members to refuse Brendan Flood's offers at a time when there seemed little risk attached to them. In 2007/08 everyone seemed to presume that the strong economy would just go on and on.
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Given that Wilson is still at Liverpool it's fairly clear that they overvalued him. Will be interesting to see what happens with him eventually.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
One of those situations that could go really wrong for him and Liverpool. If he moves to a team that doesn’t suit his style/he performs poorly, he’s going to end up losing any interest from Prem teams, so big pressure on him now. For Liverpool that means any fee dropping to the low millions.
Could tear it up of course, but still not sure that would see his value increase much beyond what we agreed to pay?
No idea what went on, but if it’s true we offered a total of £16m, I think Liverpool were very very foolish to turn it down. Or not changing it to a loan with an option to buy when the Tarks deal fell through.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Well he's not going to tear it up at Liverpool as it looks like he won't be given enough chance to do that.
Which means come January, he probably won't have played any/many minutes.
Which means come January, he probably won't have played any/many minutes.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Another scenario is that we had an agreement in principle but we dropped out when the Tarks deal fell through.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:03 amI agree. Sounds like Liverpool were trying to take the p1ss and we decided it wasn't go to work.
Might’ve expected Liverpool to understand that situation though and offer a loan with an option/obligation to buy.
Think a Prem loan would ultimately be better for his value than a Championship loan move, and sure he’d prefer it, so good for all parties.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Possibly. And yes, not sure what Liverpool would have lost my loaning him out. We pay a % of his fee and we put him in the shop window for Liverpool. Again, they may have tried to get us to pay a large loan fee.NewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:11 amAnother scenario is that we had an agreement in principle but we dropped out when the Tarks deal fell through.
Might’ve expected Liverpool to understand that situation though and offer a loan with an option/obligation to buy.
Think a Prem loan would ultimately be better for his value than a Championship loan move, and sure he’d prefer it, so good for all parties.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Can we start a new thread, maybe talking about transfers?
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Which ones would those be?burnley007 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:18 amCan we start a new thread, maybe talking about transfers?
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Yep, quite likely. Although we were paid a £2m loan fee for Gibson, so maybe £2-3m is not unreasonable? With the sum deducted from end transfer if concluded. I think that’d have been fair.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:14 amPossibly. And yes, not sure what Liverpool would have lost my loaning him out. We pay a % of his fee and we put him in the shop window for Liverpool. Again, they may have tried to get us to pay a large loan fee.
Obviously something went on but it seems a bad outcome for him/Liverpool as much as us that no agreement was reached.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
It's a possibility the loan option wasn't explored, Liverpool preferred him sold & we wanted to buy him outright but the valuations didn't match, now Liverpool have no other choice sticking to there rigid valuation & no takers other than to loan him out to alleviate the wage burden, that's what I personally think the situation is.NewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:11 amAnother scenario is that we had an agreement in principle but we dropped out when the Tarks deal fell through.
Might’ve expected Liverpool to understand that situation though and offer a loan with an option/obligation to buy.
Think a Prem loan would ultimately be better for his value than a Championship loan move, and sure he’d prefer it, so good for all parties.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Not sure that not being included in Liverpool's Champions League squad means they don't rate him, it just means that the current champions of England and recent European Champions believe they have better players in his position which they do and which is why he doesn't play very often.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
If that were the case & there was no other reason, Liverpool really shot themselves in the foot. There’s no way he will play given signings of Thiago & Jota. And there’s no way a Championship club will be able to cover his reported wages. Same with Shaqiri, was expecting he would leave for the same reason.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:27 amIt's a possibility the loan option wasn't explored, Liverpool preferred him sold & we wanted to buy him outright but the valuations didn't match, now Liverpool have no other choice sticking to there rigid valuation & no takers other than to loan him out to alleviate the wage burden, that's what I personally think the situation is.
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Wasn't that because Pool were playing hard ball and wanted him off their books and £15-20million in their bank and were not wanting to loan him. Now they have little option unless any team in the lower divisions can afford the transfer fee and match his present salary
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Because we were told we have no money, and we were needing to sell before we could buy.
Tarky going may have meant we could have brought in 2 or 3, that didnt happen so SD stated we wouldn't be bringing anyone in.
I'm sure he mentioned it Thursday before the window shut Monday, that he thought that was it, no incomings for us.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Which you'd expect basically rules out anything before the next deadline, too.MACCA wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:23 pmBecause we were told we have no money, and we were needing to sell before we could buy.
Tarky going may have meant we could have brought in 2 or 3, that didnt happen so SD stated we wouldn't be bringing anyone in.
I'm sure he mentioned it Thursday before the window shut Monday, that he thought that was it, no incomings for us.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Wasn't the Danny Ings transfer to Southampton something similar? A Southampton fan told me that he was on loan for a year with a guarantee that they would buy him for 18 million at the end of the season. He did ok in his first year but I think quite a lot of their would have been happy to see him go back after the first season. I don't think they see it that way now.
I can't see the Burnley board saddling themselves with a promise to pay anyone millions in the future.
Yesterday MediaPro who buy the rights for L1 in France have refused to make their October payment, as advertising revenues have gone through the floor they want to renegotiate the TV rights package. Something similar in England could see clubs losing millions. It'll be interesting to see how many clubs will fall foul of the FFP rules in the current climate.
I can't see the Burnley board saddling themselves with a promise to pay anyone millions in the future.
Yesterday MediaPro who buy the rights for L1 in France have refused to make their October payment, as advertising revenues have gone through the floor they want to renegotiate the TV rights package. Something similar in England could see clubs losing millions. It'll be interesting to see how many clubs will fall foul of the FFP rules in the current climate.
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
They rated him so much they were willing to let him go if we had come up and met their high/unrealistic demandsarise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:36 pmNot sure that not being included in Liverpool's Champions League squad means they don't rate him, it just means that the current champions of England and recent European Champions believe they have better players in his position which they do and which is why he doesn't play very often.
Plus, if he was that good, how come nobody else signed him on
Bournemouth/Derby/Swansea on loan maybe
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Regarding covering his wages there’s no guarantee we would have been able to without negotiating a reduction, 1 thing during the negotiations which was noticeable apparently when the deal stalled & the club walked away 24hrs later media outlets were reporting that Liverpool had dropped there asking price but did we go back to work out a compromise meet in the middle so to speak, the valuation disparity was hugh despite whichever source you choose to believe or disbelieve.NewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:10 pmIf that were the case & there was no other reason, Liverpool really shot themselves in the foot. There’s no way he will play given signings of Thiago & Jota. And there’s no way a Championship club will be able to cover his reported wages. Same with Shaqiri, was expecting he would leave for the same reason.
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Well the Newcastle display, or lack of it, could have forced a small gamble you'd hope.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:51 pmWhich you'd expect basically rules out anything before the next deadline, too.
Also I'm sure we would have been making sure all the internationals came back fully fit, whilst using the extra time to see how Mee, Lowton and the other walking wounded progressed injury wise.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
I think the most likely situation was that we were negotiating, were a way off Liverpools valuation and when Tarks fell through we walked away as were clearly not going to be able to reach agreement. Probably not Liverpool being greedy, or our fault, really. Albeit I think Liverpool would've been better agreeing a loan to us than Championship in terms of preserving his value.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:27 pmRegarding covering his wages there’s no guarantee we would have been able to without negotiating a reduction, 1 thing during the negotiations which was noticeable apparently when the deal stalled & the club walked away 24hrs later media outlets were reporting that Liverpool had dropped there asking price but did we go back to work out a compromise meet in the middle so to speak, the valuation disparity was hugh despite whichever source you choose to believe or disbelieve.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Depends if that deal was always expected to be additive to anything else in the pipeline - i.e. Dawson. If so, there may still be some hope, but those deals were prioritised.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:51 pmWhich you'd expect basically rules out anything before the next deadline, too.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
On a loan vs loan & the PL vs championship of course the value would have been preserved if not increased but as I already stated Liverpool wanted to sell him only & the club wanted to buy him only, at that point in time the loan wasn’t a option it’s a option now because it’s only thing Liverpool can do because nobody is willing to meet their set valuation. You say Liverpool would have been better off loaning him to us or another PL side [I agree 100%] I don’t think you are grasping nobody wanted him on a loan basis, whatever was happening with tarks was irrelevant because we wasn’t even in for a defender we’d actually let 1 go to Norwich & West Ham couldn’t afford JT & Leicester by then were in advanced talks on the brink of signing somebody else which has now been completed.NewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:56 pmI think the most likely situation was that we were negotiating, were a way off Liverpools valuation and when Tarks fell through we walked away as were clearly not going to be able to reach agreement. Probably not Liverpool being greedy, or our fault, really. Albeit I think Liverpool would've been better agreeing a loan to us than Championship in terms of preserving his value.
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
We've already had similar in the Premier League with the Chinese rightsholder, PPTV, pulling out. Think that has cost us £7m or so and probably double that in the upcoming seasons.dibraidio wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:11 pm...
Yesterday MediaPro who buy the rights for L1 in France have refused to make their October payment, as advertising revenues have gone through the floor they want to renegotiate the TV rights package. Something similar in England could see clubs losing millions. It'll be interesting to see how many clubs will fall foul of the FFP rules in the current climate.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
much much more than that going on between Mediapro and the French Ligue - I have been posting about it for months on the MMT thread and I started by saying that it reminded me of itv digital and we know how that wentdibraidio wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:11 pmYesterday MediaPro who buy the rights for L1 in France have refused to make their October payment, as advertising revenues have gone through the floor they want to renegotiate the TV rights package. Something similar in England could see clubs losing millions. It'll be interesting to see how many clubs will fall foul of the FFP rules in the current climate.
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
No wonder Mike Garlick is being ultra careful with the cheque bookChester Perry wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:22 pmmuch much more than that going on between Mediapro and the French Ligue - I have been posting about it for months on the MMT thread and I started by saying that it reminded me of itv digital and we know how that went
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Presumably some of the ST/matchday revenue loss will now be offset by the PPV income?
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
I see Lansbury might be available. Pity that window closed a few days ago.
https://www.footballinsider247.com/thre ... next-week/
https://www.footballinsider247.com/thre ... next-week/
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Just enjoy the season and stop talking ********.warksclaret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:54 amWhen we got promoted 4 or 5 years ago, and someone said to you that we will remain in the PL for 5 years...what would you have said
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
It's not surprising that with less than one week left of the EFL transfer window, that is usually our main market, this thread and any mention of links with any other players has gone completely cold.
This is going to be a long, hard season. Especially if we don't get investment before January.
This is going to be a long, hard season. Especially if we don't get investment before January.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
A bit on Dawson. Watford actively trying to offload him...
https://the72.co.uk/196183/watford-will ... -ham-keen/
https://the72.co.uk/196183/watford-will ... -ham-keen/
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Best bit of business we did in the window was keeping Tarkowski
Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
That depends on how much he wanted to go, which by all accounts was a lot. He may not be motivated to play for us.Top Claret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:58 amBest bit of business we did in the window was keeping Tarkowski
I'd take Dawson.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
Like a new signing.Top Claret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:58 amBest bit of business we did in the window was keeping Tarkowski
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)
I'm surprised this was still on the first page.
We may need a CB but I can't see anything before January.
We may need a CB but I can't see anything before January.