Why? Are they not as good at trading as we are? The EU has a large trade surplus with the UK, even when service industries are included.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:24 pmWe would win and they would lose, which is why there will never be a free trade agreement, they just can’t do it.
Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Can’t. What’s the point of paying to be in the EU, adhering to all the rules and regs, when the UK gets a tariff free deal and can undercut them on costs etc.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
So are you saying that the free trade aspect of the EU is good, but the net of the other aspects is bad? In which case, the answer to the question is obvious. There is no point in being a member of the EU. The 28 countries would be better off all leaving and forming a free trade union instead.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:10 pmCan’t. What’s the point of paying to be in the EU, adhering to all the rules and regs, when the UK gets a tariff free deal and can undercut them on costs etc.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
A free trade hub, in fact. Like I said, the EU doesn't want free trade except within its own protectionist borders.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:12 pmOur goods (costs) would be cheaper. We would be an offshore warehouse for the rest of the world selling into the EU.
Last edited by dsr on Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
[duplicate]
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Why do you think our costs would be cheaper? Compared to much of Eastern Europe they'd be considerably higher for instance. Also, to be an offshore warehouse selling into the EU that would involve a deal with no rules of origin which I don't think anyone would remotely expect to be the case (whether with an EU deal or another).Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:12 pmOur goods (costs) would be cheaper. We would be an offshore warehouse for the rest of the world selling into the EU.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
I didn't realise those countries had free trade with the EU. But if there are countries with free trade with the EU, then why can't we be one of them? Or has the EU used its muscle to enforce EU laws on them as well?
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
They found no evidence, when they looked two years after the event.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:22 pmFortunately they didn’t affect the Brexit referendum , well according to the Information Commissioner’s Office, but what do they know bloody Tory puppets!!
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Yes, there are lots of countries with free trade agreements with the EU.
I can't say I'm particularly familiar with the deals but I know that most have significant rules on state aid (which is understandable for a free trade agreement) which is a sticking point for the UK.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
I don't think it's rules on state aid that are the sticking point, it's the EU's insistence that they should be the ones to administer them. The point of principle is whether the EU has the right to make new laws for the UK.aggi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:54 pmYes, there are lots of countries with free trade agreements with the EU.
I can't say I'm particularly familiar with the deals but I know that most have significant rules on state aid (which is understandable for a free trade agreement) which is a sticking point for the UK.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Well that's certainly the Brexit interpretation.
More realistically there's issues on both sides.
The EU's initial position is they want the ECJ to be the arbiter and as new EU regulations they become part of the agreement (obviously that's not at all the same as making new laws for the UK but I realise you prefer the hyperbolic version).
The UK's position is that they don't want state aid rules to be part of the dispute resolution process (whatever that may end up being) and don't want there to be a mechanism to enforce them beyond the WTO regulations (which obviously makes including them a bit pointless).
Neither position looks great to me but you can blame it all on the nasty EU if you like.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
They found no evidence at the time and that was confirmed, again, a couple of months ago. It was a 3 year investigation! https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forb ... endum/amp/
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
It is the same as we would have, as a matter of law, adopt any new regulations that they make, without any input and regardless of the impact on the UK.aggi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:18 pmWell that's certainly the Brexit interpretation.
More realistically there's issues on both sides.
The EU's initial position is they want the ECJ to be the arbiter and as new EU regulations they become part of the agreement (obviously that's not at all the same as making new laws for the UK but I realise you prefer the hyperbolic version).
The UK's position is that they don't want state aid rules to be part of the dispute resolution process (whatever that may end up being) and don't want there to be a mechanism to enforce them beyond the WTO regulations (which obviously makes including them a bit pointless).
Neither position looks great to me but you can blame it all on the nasty EU if you like.
The UK don’t want the EU rules on State Aid, and perhaps more importantly, any future rules that they unilaterally introduce, to be ruled on by the ECJ, which is the mechanism the EU want. They have rejected a tribunal with a judge from UK, one from EU and an independent chair.
The UK Courts are the world leaders in contract law etc, why don’t the EU just accept that the Supreme Court should have the last ruling, like many other international contracts do?
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
They raided them two years after the referendum. Two years. If the crime was murder, I’d expect they could - in that time rid the scene of all evidence. We are talking alleged digital crime. And after two years the EC couldn’t find any evidence. Wow!Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:24 pmThey found no evidence at the time and that was confirmed, again, a couple of months ago. It was a 3 year investigation! https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forb ... endum/amp/
They were a company set up to influence elections.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
People have been convicted of murder more than two years after committing the crime.AndrewJB wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:15 pmThey raided them two years after the referendum. Two years. If the crime was murder, I’d expect they could - in that time rid the scene of all evidence. We are talking alleged digital crime. And after two years the EC couldn’t find any evidence. Wow!
They were a company set up to influence elections.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
I’m talking about evidence. And the ability to get rid of it within two years.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:22 pmPeople have been convicted of murder more than two years after committing the crime.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Read the report! Honestly you’d argue black was white.AndrewJB wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:15 pmThey raided them two years after the referendum. Two years. If the crime was murder, I’d expect they could - in that time rid the scene of all evidence. We are talking alleged digital crime. And after two years the EC couldn’t find any evidence. Wow!
They were a company set up to influence elections.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
I haven't seen any mention of this anywhere else. Have you got any more detail? All I've seen is that the UK will announce its regime next year.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:34 pmIt is the same as we would have, as a matter of law, adopt any new regulations that they make, without any input and regardless of the impact on the UK.
The UK don’t want the EU rules on State Aid, and perhaps more importantly, any future rules that they unilaterally introduce, to be ruled on by the ECJ, which is the mechanism the EU want. They have rejected a tribunal with a judge from UK, one from EU and an independent chair.
The UK Courts are the world leaders in contract law etc, why don’t the EU just accept that the Supreme Court should have the last ruling, like many other international contracts do?
Obviously your last paragraph is as ludicrous as just accepting that the EU courts should have sole jurisdiction.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Well I never ......
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Hardly a shock for the sensible people amongst us.
40 million cars on the UK roads, of which anywhere between 2-3 million are new cars sold annually.
The aftermarket parts sector is approx £8 billion, employing 40k people.
The European car manufacturers and parts producers were always interested in having a trade deal with the UK.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Hmm, it's not quite what people have been saying about German car manufacturers pushing a deal through. It's very specifically related to manufacturing and rules of origin for cars and the percentage of EU/UK components in them.
Brussels has proposed that non-UK/non-EU content be limited to 45 per cent of the car, a figure ACEA wants pushed up to 50 per cent “in line with the UK’s position”.
And obviously it's going to be irrelevant if there isn't a deal.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Well that just shows how stupid some people are if they think we can do ok without a deal, doesn't it?GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:38 pmHardly a shock for the sensible people amongst us.
40 million cars on the UK roads, of which anywhere between 2-3 million are new cars sold annually.
The aftermarket parts sector is approx £8 billion, employing 40k people.
The European car manufacturers and parts producers were always interested in having a trade deal with the UK.
WTO rules will be a disaster for the car industry .
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
It wouldn't be a disaster though.
The parts would still be imported and sold, just a difference in cost and a surprisingly large amount comes from outside the EU too.
Euro Car parts used to buy LUK clutches from LUK Asia because it was cheaper than LUK Europe.
LUK wised up eventually and leveled their prices worldwide to stop it happening.
People whinge their fecking arses off anyway about the cost of car parts, they're generally not interested in how much a car costs to maintain when they're buying one
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:40 pmIt wouldn't be a disaster though.
The parts would still be imported and sold, just a difference in cost and a surprisingly large amount comes from outside the EU too.
Euro Car parts used to buy LUK clutches from LUK Asia because it was cheaper than LUK Europe.
LUK wised up eventually and leveled their prices worldwide to stop it happening.
People whinge their fecking arses off anyway about the cost of car parts, they're generally not interested in how much a car costs to maintain when they're buying one
There are some who thought we would never fly again if we voted leave only natural some will move on to not being to have cars as a next whinge
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Too many vehicles on the road anyway, traffic everywhere, people can always get by sharing transport, cycling or walking & becoming healthier not to mention cutting pollution, we will be perfectly fine without a deal with adjustments, the mind is conditioned to think we are reliant on needing a deal when we are better off without 1 long-term.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
I suppose you think it's a myth that lorry parks are being built to accommodate the vehicles that will have to wait hours, if not days after 1st Jan just to get through customs?claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:43 pmThere are some who thought we would never fly again if we voted leave only natural some will move on to not being to have cars as a next whinge
Is that one the advantages of Brexit?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/ne ... wn-235216/
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
So long as we have two queues, one for UK vehicles and one for other vehicles we should be ok. The Irish might want to think of an alternative route though.Spijed wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:57 pmI suppose you think it's a myth that lorry parks are being built to accommodate the vehicles that will have to wait hours, if not days after 1st Jan just to get through customs?
Is that one the advantages of Brexit?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/ne ... wn-235216/
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Spijed wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:57 pmI suppose you think it's a myth that lorry parks are being built to accommodate the vehicles that will have to wait hours, if not days after 1st Jan just to get through customs?
Is that one the advantages of Brexit?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/ne ... wn-235216/
Lorry parks may be being built but vehicles won't be sat there for days, stop lying
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
First major post-brexit trade deal formally signed we're finally moving on and shaping our future destiny. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54654814
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
You've got to laugh.
UK presses for use of faster passport gates at EU airports post-Brexit
Boris Johnson has clashed with Brussels over an 11th-hour attempt to save British passport holders from hours of delays at European airports from the end of the year. The government is seeking continued use by UK nationals of the automatic e-gates used by EU nationals at airports and Eurostar terminals.
https://bit.ly/34p6aC4
UK presses for use of faster passport gates at EU airports post-Brexit
Boris Johnson has clashed with Brussels over an 11th-hour attempt to save British passport holders from hours of delays at European airports from the end of the year. The government is seeking continued use by UK nationals of the automatic e-gates used by EU nationals at airports and Eurostar terminals.
https://bit.ly/34p6aC4
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
So the UK wants travel between the UK and the EU to be through time-saving e-gates and the EU wants travel to be artificially delayed. Why is that funny?
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Well let's see. We wanted to be out of the EU but now we want back what we used to have when we were in the EU. You're right though, it's not funny.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Artificially delayed? You've just made that up haven't you? I'd assume the real issue is that there are different data requirements for the UK as part of the EU and as a third country. Hence It is understood that EU capitals have been informed that it may be possible for UK nationals to use the e-gates at some point in 2022 should a new IT project registering entry and exit be rolled out by the EU on current schedule.
I imagine the "funny" part is that the UK are the ones causing the issue and also complaining about it.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Hi aggi, you've got to laugh. From my (limited) experience the extra scrutiny of UK passports commenced in 2016. I'm not sure how the passport control guys were supposed to identify merely by examining our passports which way we all voted in the June-2016 referendum, but there were certainly occasions where there was a lot more interest shown than in other times. Of course, it could have been security concerns.aggi wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:57 pmArtificially delayed? You've just made that up haven't you? I'd assume the real issue is that there are different data requirements for the UK as part of the EU and as a third country. Hence It is understood that EU capitals have been informed that it may be possible for UK nationals to use the e-gates at some point in 2022 should a new IT project registering entry and exit be rolled out by the EU on current schedule.
I imagine the "funny" part is that the UK are the ones causing the issue and also complaining about it.
What data requirements will there be? Do you expect that we will all start to have to complete landing cards, as we do now when we fly to US or many other (non-EU) countries? It should be "no biggie" in the scheme of things. The e-passport gates are getting better. They were "a pain" at Heathrow after flying red-eye and arriving early morning before the e-gates were opened. I was always puzzled why the e-gates weren't started up as soon as the first planes were landing, rather than the 6:30 time they were switched on. It was always one of those occasions when obviously tired passengers could be a little tetchy.
If the EU sorts their IT systems out by 2022, I'm sure that will be fine for most Brits. How many expect to be travelling to Europe (or anywhere else) before covid-19 is sorted?
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
If the UK's systems were unable to cope with EU passports and the UK was saying we cannot have a mutual easy access system, you would castigate the UK for being unprepared. But becasue it's the EU that is unable to cope with UK passports and we cannot have a mutual easy access system, it's yet another reason to castigate the UK.aggi wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:57 pmArtificially delayed? You've just made that up haven't you? I'd assume the real issue is that there are different data requirements for the UK as part of the EU and as a third country. Hence It is understood that EU capitals have been informed that it may be possible for UK nationals to use the e-gates at some point in 2022 should a new IT project registering entry and exit be rolled out by the EU on current schedule.
I imagine the "funny" part is that the UK are the ones causing the issue and also complaining about it.
This is one area where you can't be accused of double standards. The EU is always right and the UK is always wrong!
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
Are there any more 'favourite bits about being in the EU' you'd like to cherry pick dsr? If you don't think its funny imagine how you would feel if you didn't vote for brexit.dsr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:03 pmIf the UK's systems were unable to cope with EU passports and the UK was saying we cannot have a mutual easy access system, you would castigate the UK for being unprepared. But becasue it's the EU that is unable to cope with UK passports and we cannot have a mutual easy access system, it's yet another reason to castigate the UK.
This is one area where you can't be accused of double standards. The EU is always right and the UK is always wrong!
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
If you think this is bad, how are the Scottish unionists going to carry on if Scotland votes to leave the UK? For those people who think money is the great god and nothing else matters, the economic hit to Scotland will be frightening.
Anyway, I didn't vote to join the EEC and didn't vote to join the EU, and I bore it bravely.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
I can't say I've noticed any extra scrutiny in the 20 or 30 trips to Europe I've done since the Brexit vote.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:45 pmHi aggi, you've got to laugh. From my (limited) experience the extra scrutiny of UK passports commenced in 2016. I'm not sure how the passport control guys were supposed to identify merely by examining our passports which way we all voted in the June-2016 referendum, but there were certainly occasions where there was a lot more interest shown than in other times. Of course, it could have been security concerns.
What data requirements will there be? Do you expect that we will all start to have to complete landing cards, as we do now when we fly to US or many other (non-EU) countries? It should be "no biggie" in the scheme of things. The e-passport gates are getting better. They were "a pain" at Heathrow after flying red-eye and arriving early morning before the e-gates were opened. I was always puzzled why the e-gates weren't started up as soon as the first planes were landing, rather than the 6:30 time they were switched on. It was always one of those occasions when obviously tired passengers could be a little tetchy.
If the EU sorts their IT systems out by 2022, I'm sure that will be fine for most Brits. How many expect to be travelling to Europe (or anywhere else) before covid-19 is sorted?
I would suspect it's a more fundamental point that for it to work you'd need interoperability between the UK database and the EU database and, given the lack of an agreement on data adequacy, that isn't going to happen with the existing systems at the moment. (And maybe not for a long time if the noises that Cummings is making about changing the data protection laws in the UK bear any fruit.)
It's not as catchy as fishing but things like data protection equivalence could have a huge impact if agreements aren't reached.
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
About a dozen posts up I was happy to say that I didn't agree with the EU or UK stance whereas obviously you presented a cockeyed half of the scenario and blamed it on the nasty EU.dsr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:03 pmIf the UK's systems were unable to cope with EU passports and the UK was saying we cannot have a mutual easy access system, you would castigate the UK for being unprepared. But becasue it's the EU that is unable to cope with UK passports and we cannot have a mutual easy access system, it's yet another reason to castigate the UK.
This is one area where you can't be accused of double standards. The EU is always right and the UK is always wrong!
I didn't see any castigating the UK in my post. I was castigating you for making things up. As I said, there are very different data requirements as part of the EU and as a third country but I know that you like to believe the world is incredibly simple and those types of things don't exist.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
The speed of getting through passport will be down to the number of passport officers/lanes are open. Flying to any EU holiday destination and there will be a few flights from UK, a few from EU countries (do they need passport control with No internal borders?) and very few other none EU flights.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
What "interoperability" is required? People travel from one country to another, for the most part carrying their passports with them (I'm allowing that it may be acceptable to use ID cards between some countries). The requirements for identification in passports is a global standard - so passports operate for visitors to all countries. E-passport technology has been installed in many countries, it's not just something that exists within EU (and while UK was an EU member state). The linked Guardian article lists Australia, USA and Japan as amongst the countries that are permitted to use the UK e-gates. I'd imagine there are some global standards for these e-passport readers - all with the capability to record whatever is required when someone inserts their passport and the system (seeks to) confirm facial match to the passport.aggi wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:50 pmI can't say I've noticed any extra scrutiny in the 20 or 30 trips to Europe I've done since the Brexit vote.
I would suspect it's a more fundamental point that for it to work you'd need interoperability between the UK database and the EU database and, given the lack of an agreement on data adequacy, that isn't going to happen with the existing systems at the moment. (And maybe not for a long time if the noises that Cummings is making about changing the data protection laws in the UK bear any fruit.)
It's not as catchy as fishing but things like data protection equivalence could have a huge impact if agreements aren't reached.
I'd not heard that there are any changes planned to GDPR. If there were, I can't see how this would impact on the use of e-passport gates and the relevant country recording the required data concerning a non-national passport holder entering or exiting that country.
What GDPR rules do you see as changing?
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
I had to show my passport in Poland a couple of years ago, which seemed a bit odd.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:07 pmThe speed of getting through passport will be down to the number of passport officers/lanes are open. Flying to any EU holiday destination and there will be a few flights from UK, a few from EU countries (do they need passport control with No internal borders?) and very few other none EU flights.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
EU to treat UK as non EU country after UK chooses to leave EU shocker. Who'd have thought the Brexit brigade would blame this on the EU being nasty
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
All I am saying is that both sides have the option of keeping things as they are now, and both sides would be better for taking that option; and that's what the UK wants to do and the EU doesn't.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:36 pmEU to treat UK as non EU country after UK chooses to leave EU shocker. Who'd have thought the Brexit brigade would blame this on the EU being nasty
Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!
I’d be interested to know what Brexiteers did expect to change once we left the EU? It seems from some on here that they thought the EU might allow us to keep all the advantages, drop any disadvantages and pay no money!