ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I agree as without investment I see us in league 1 within 10 years. Im not for or against as it could go either way even to the point where our greatest current asset could become a hindrance
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
It's an asset of community value, that can't be released as part of a share purchase.TVC15 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:08 pmCovenants can be released as part of the purchase of land or property or business - as long as you can get to the person or entity who issued the covenant.
Whether they insist this covenant remains as part of any sale none of us have a clue - and similarly any purchaser may not be bothered about the covenant remaining (again we don’t know - or I don’t know others may do ?)
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I think the wheels have already started to come off.randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:32 pmI suppose it depends how you see things panning out if there is no takeover...the wheels may well come off anyway
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Theyre certainly loose
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Both bids have very different models for the clubs operations. Both have merits and both have limitations in my opinion.DCWat wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:35 pmSo are you confident that people’s concerns are unjustified, be this Farnell, El Kashashy, the source(s) of funds or the long term plans for our football club?
I’m all for investment / sale and think that Garlick has run his course with us, but I’m yet to see something, aside from the snippets that you and Ben have posted, that give me great confidence, in either ALK or the other side.
So far, all I can see is a hope that Garlick is doing what is right for Burnley FC and not just his bank balance.
We’ve seen plenty of clubs sold, presumably with the very best of intentions, only for the new hierarchy to turn out to be anything but positive for the club that they’ve purchased.
I’d love to know how we can be confident in either bid.
Garlick, is a business man first, custodian of BFC second.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Thanks Daniel.Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:17 pmBoth bids have very different models for the clubs operations. Both have merits and both have limitations in my opinion.
Garlick, is a business man first, custodian of BFC second.
Apologies if covered before, but what is your take on Farnell and his involvement?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Surely the fact he owns 50% of the vehicle company looking to buy you, shows that he is acting in more than a legal capacity?NRC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:29 pmI haven’t read anything to suggest Farnell is NOT acting in any other capacity than a legal one at this juncture. He may be, he may be not. That he is 50% in Staunch is not material. When I and another 3rd party bought into a northwest-based company a shell company like Staunch was structured to allow the existing management team and us to become directors of the shell for the purposes of acquisition.
I’m not concluding anything at this point beyond What I know, which is
1. We don’t know Farnell’s intent
2. My connection with Dubai royal connections does not know Cashashy
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That’s good news.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:11 pmIt's an asset of community value, that can't be released as part of a share purchase.
Have you seen that confirmed or referenced anywhere ?
It’s the kind of good thing that Barry Kilby would do for the club if it was BK who brought it in when they bought the land back.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
This was not brought in by BK, although I agree that it is the sort of thing he would do.
For once, I can actually take the credit for this. It is in its second cycle of three years as being an ACV, and was taken to the council by The Clarets Trust..I am the membership secretary.
Glad you approve of the action!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I think we are all aware we need to invest in the team but I am really interested to know if and how/where they plan to invest in the infrastructure and the stadium. Does one bid have a better plan than the other? Perhaps one will have us move away to a new ground but as has already been mentioned..why would they do this if the land is worth little? Unless space is an issue?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Great to hear and hopefully as a result of this, will put rest to asset stripping claims being thrown around like selling turf moor will make it worth someone's time and potentially hundreds of millions of pounds to make some fast cash.whentheballmoves wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:23 pmThis was not brought in by BK, although I agree that it is the sort of thing he would do.
For once, I can actually take the credit for this. It is in its second cycle of three years as being an ACV, and was taken to the council by The Clarets Trust..I am the membership secretary.
Glad you approve of the action!
I really want to understand like many others what the plans are but accept that the way these things work will mean we won't be getting copies of their 5-year business plans to read through any time soon. I am curious to what makes us a worthwhile investment other than the hope we can be sold profitably again at some point.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hi ch, you can read about The Clarets Trust here: https://claretstrust.co.uk/ including details of Turf Moor being recorded as an "Asset of Community Value." I didn't know anything about The Clarets Trust before it was mentioned above. I guess we've got one or two TCT board members who post on here.clarethomer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:02 pmGreat to hear and hopefully as a result of this, will put rest to asset stripping claims being thrown around like selling turf moor will make it worth someone's time and potentially hundreds of millions of pounds to make some fast cash.
I really want to understand like many others what the plans are but accept that the way these things work will mean we won't be getting copies of their 5-year business plans to read through any time soon. I am curious to what makes us a worthwhile investment other than the hope we can be sold profitably again at some point.
From my reading, registering Turf Moor as ACV is only a "5 year" thing - and it can be changed - and would need to be renewed, as it already was renewed in 2019. Turf Moor is owned by Longside Properties Ltd, which in turn is owned by Burnley FC Holdings Ltd.
It is Burnley FC Holdings Ltd that is the subject of takeover discussions. Should this company be acquired by new owners, ownership of Longside Properties (and Turf Moor) will be held by the new owners - and the ACV will continue to apply.
Clarets Trust is shown as owning 176 ordinary shares in Burnley FC Holdings Ltd. (This is from Companies House Confirmation Statement, Dec-2019).
There is no logic in any entity paying £200 million to buy Burnley FC Holdings if they are thinking of "asset stripping." It would and could only "end in tears" and a massive financial loss for the entity buying the club.
If MG and the board decide to sell the club to new investors, they will make their decision on the price that is offered. Of course, any prospective new investors have to satisfy ODT with PL. The latter should be interested in the "sustainability" of the new investors plans - i.e. do they have access to the funds to run the club. (I guess it's a moot point - do the new investors need to have more funds than the existing owners, especially after they've paid the agreed purchase price to MG et al?). Logic said they wouldn't be trying to buy if they didn't think they could make a success of it.
Discussions about any new investors plans for the club may be part of passing ODT in some form. I don't think there will be a "5 year business plan." I'd expect there to be "aspirations" including the aspiration to remain in PL - and then maybe some further development of the squad. Development of the ground may be mentioned - but, I'd expect that to be very much contingent on on field successes and new revenues, wherever these new revenues can be obtained.
All the above is on the basis that a deal is agreed with someone. We won't know whether that is happening until the club comments to that effect - and until then it will be "no comment."
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That doesn't actually stop the ability to sell it though does it? I thought it just gives a period where the community is the preferred bidder. You'd still need someone to rustle up £5m or so to prevent it being sold to anybody.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:11 pmIt's an asset of community value, that can't be released as part of a share purchase.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
To add to that, he perhaps wants to sell because he knows football club chairmen are seldom popular. Lord wasn't, even though we won the league when he was there. Jackson and Teasdale, less said the better. Kilby, very popular, but got out while the going was good (obviously that wasn't the plan, that was personal circumstances). Now Garlick sees us finish in the top 10 twice and get into Europe and he is not popular because people think it isn't good enough. Who would want to be a football club chairman?Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:40 pmI'm inclined to believe that Garlick wants to sell primarily because he realises that the longer we stay in the PL the more wages (in particular) are creeping up and our much celebrated profitability is being squeezed. It won't be long before our costs are up there with our revenue and despite being a jolly rich chap personally, he knows full well that he's not in a position to bank roll the club and definitely not in the way that most other PL owners can and are doing. If we're to continue to thrive at this level, the club needs investment and thus in an ideal scenario, whoever buys the club, not only pays for the majority of the shares and becomes the "owner" but has a whole load of other cash they are prepared to then put in to boost the playing side. I really can't see a situation where Garlick sells up to people who can find the cost of buying the club ok, but actually have pledged nothing else because in that case it will all have been extremely pointless.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
This is my problem with the whole debateCharlton Boy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:39 pmSurely the fact he owns 50% of the vehicle company looking to buy you, shows that he is acting in more than a legal capacity?
Who has said, or how do you know this is actually the case? Or are you just guessing?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
67 pages of pure speculative drivel.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hi Grumps, I'm pretty sure we first heard about El Kashashy and Farnell when the Mirror reported that the two were on the verge of taking over Burnley for £200m. In the same report we were informed that Farnell's appeal against ban by EFL for being director of a football club had been successful. Whether Staunch Partners is the corporate entity that they planned to use to buy Burnley may not matter. It is the only legal entity that Farnell and El Kashashy are both directors of.... and if they are "on the verge" it might involve a legal entity that already exists.
Contrast this with the ALK interest, including Calder Vale and Kettering Holdings. We know that all these companies have their registered offices at the same address in Leeds. The address is also the offices of Pinsent Masons, one of the top firms of lawyers, including advising on sports transactions. The only directors of the ALK companies are Alan Pace and his US based colleagues. No Pinsent lawyer is a director of any of these companies. So far as I'm aware, no Pinsent lawyer has been named in connection with any bid for Burnley or anything else re ALK and Alan Pace - and there's no need for the names of ALK's lawyers to be known.
My conclusion, Farnell isn't just a legal advisor for El Kashashy, he is also looking for his "piece of the action" as an owner and director of whatever comes to pass.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
A link below to the council’s paperwork on the ACV that whentheballmoves flagged up above. All publicly available.
https://www.burnley.gov.uk/sites/defaul ... 202019.pdf
I would point out that just because Turf Moor is an ACV (which was a fantastic move), the football club business isn’t obliged to play there. It just means the owner couldn’t sell the asset off for any other purpose while it is protected (my local pub, opposite the world’s oldest football ground, is also a ACV and has been abandoned for years, sooner or later, tragically, it will become housing).
So my fear remains that a new ground, borrowing at rock bottom levels, is the way the new owners may choose to make money out of this. It’s a fear, not a prediction, I have no idea if this is planned or not, but I know it could stack up financially.
We’ll see.
https://www.burnley.gov.uk/sites/defaul ... 202019.pdf
I would point out that just because Turf Moor is an ACV (which was a fantastic move), the football club business isn’t obliged to play there. It just means the owner couldn’t sell the asset off for any other purpose while it is protected (my local pub, opposite the world’s oldest football ground, is also a ACV and has been abandoned for years, sooner or later, tragically, it will become housing).
So my fear remains that a new ground, borrowing at rock bottom levels, is the way the new owners may choose to make money out of this. It’s a fear, not a prediction, I have no idea if this is planned or not, but I know it could stack up financially.
We’ll see.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
On the plus side, we are a day nearer to becoming a Northern powerhouse
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
One newspaper report that may, or may not be truePaul Waine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:25 amHi Grumps, I'm pretty sure we first heard about El Kashashy and Farnell when the Mirror reported that the two were on the verge of taking over Burnley for £200m. In the same report we were informed that Farnell's appeal against ban by EFL for being director of a football club had been successful. Whether Staunch Partners is the corporate entity that they planned to use to buy Burnley may not matter. It is the only legal entity that Farnell and El Kashashy are both directors of.... and if they are "on the verge" it might involve a legal entity that already exists.
Contrast this with the ALK interest, including Calder Vale and Kettering Holdings. We know that all these companies have their registered offices at the same address in Leeds. The address is also the offices of Pinsent Masons, one of the top firms of lawyers, including advising on sports transactions. The only directors of the ALK companies are Alan Pace and his US based colleagues. No Pinsent lawyer is a director of any of these companies. So far as I'm aware, no Pinsent lawyer has been named in connection with any bid for Burnley or anything else re ALK and Alan Pace - and there's no need for the names of ALK's lawyers to be known.
My conclusion, Farnell isn't just a legal advisor for El Kashashy, he is also looking for his "piece of the action" as an owner and director of whatever comes to pass.
UTC
The Charlton fan was stating as fact that staunch was buying burnley, my argument is that we don't know that for a fact.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
How would new owners make money in that scenario?CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:53 amA link below to the council’s paperwork on the ACV that whentheballmoves flagged up above. All publicly available.
https://www.burnley.gov.uk/sites/defaul ... 202019.pdf
I would point out that just because Turf Moor is an ACV (which was a fantastic move), the football club business isn’t obliged to play there. It just means the owner couldn’t sell the asset off for any other purpose while it is protected (my local pub, opposite the world’s oldest football ground, is also a ACV and has been abandoned for years, sooner or later, tragically, it will become housing).
So my fear remains that a new ground, borrowing at rock bottom levels, is the way the new owners may choose to make money out of this. It’s a fear, not a prediction, I have no idea if this is planned or not, but I know it could stack up financially.
We’ll see.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
There was a second Mirror report - another guy saying Burnley fans should back Farnell to buy Burnley. I think he was someone who knew Farnell.
I'm not to bothered whether it's Staunch Partners or any other entity. It takes less than 30 mins to set one up.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Are you sure? Spend £200 million to buy the club... and...... where's the £200 million plus some more going to come from to "make money out of this?"CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:53 am
So my fear remains that a new ground, borrowing at rock bottom levels, is the way the new owners may choose to make money out of this. It’s a fear, not a prediction, I have no idea if this is planned or not, but I know it could stack up financially.
We’ll see.
Surely, a lot easier just to save your £200 million and NOT buy the club.
UTC
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That was the guy from Bury. There was also a newspaper report saying the Egyptian was worth 9 billion... Do we believe that? Just shows what I keep saying.... Its all guesswork at the moment.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:24 amThere was a second Mirror report - another guy saying Burnley fans should back Farnell to buy Burnley. I think he was someone who knew Farnell.
I'm not to bothered whether it's Staunch Partners or any other entity. It takes less than 30 mins to set one up.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
There you go....Charlton Boy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:39 pmSurely the fact he owns 50% of the vehicle company looking to buy you, shows that he is acting in more than a legal capacity?
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Shale gas under Turf Moor. What Mike Garlick hasn’t told him is that the asbestos roof from the Longside is buried under the pitch and any potential profit will be wiped out by the hazardous waste removal.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I thank Charlton for his views and concerns, but I think his time here needs to be over.Charlton Boy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:10 amYou missed out the piece where I quoted the Burnley fan who made that statement, not me. Do keep up.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Why ?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:17 amI thank Charlton for his views and concerns, but I think his time here needs to be over.
Looks like the majority of people on this thread appreciate the views of Charlton fans.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The issues have been rightly raised, people have drawn conclusions, there is no need for the continuous barrage of biased views.
This purchase is not similar, he’s opened himself up to libel with some of his comments, as have others who have liked his posts.
A purchase will go ahead, regardless of his, mine or your views.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:17 amI thank Charlton for his views and concerns, but I think his time here needs to be over.
I am sure there are some out there who think the same with regards your posts
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
DJW I have valued your comments on this, but recently you seemed to have got very biased and almost protective.Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:29 amThe issues have been rightly raised, people have drawn conclusions, there is no need for the continuous barrage of biased views.
This purchase is not similar, he’s opened himself up to libel with some of his comments, as have others who have liked his posts.
A purchase will go ahead, regardless of his, mine or your views.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
FYI - Elliott has been on TalkSport today, him and Farnell are demanding they hand Charlton back to them as they have a legal agreement (they don't).
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I didn't miss anything out, that's your full post.Charlton Boy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:10 amYou missed out the piece where I quoted the Burnley fan who made that statement, not me. Do keep up.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You’re right.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:30 amI am sure there are some out there who think the same with regards your posts
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The purchase will go ahead regardless of his, mine or your views, absolutely, I agree.Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:29 amThe issues have been rightly raised, people have drawn conclusions, there is no need for the continuous barrage of biased views.
This purchase is not similar, he’s opened himself up to libel with some of his comments, as have others who have liked his posts.
A purchase will go ahead, regardless of his, mine or your views.
However, the (potential) purchase is not similar? Well it definitely has one glaring and obvious similarity and that's our Mr Farnell and that makes the experiences of Charlton fans (among others) very relevant. (Because NOTHING I've seen or read about this guy and not just from disgruntled Charlton fans, gives me one iota of comfort).
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Why do you think the second bid will be succesful DJW ?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:51 amLet’s be clear I back the ALK bid, but think the second bid will be successful.
Enjoy one and all.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Isn't it mad that everyone here is an adult
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I personally think it's refreshing to have a member of the football family, Charlton; care enough to share their reservations on our board.
To what extent Farnell's links with the bid are we don't know and therefore cannot draw any solid conclusions on it either way. It merely gives people an insight into their own dealings. Yet again we can't read too much into it as we don't know all the details of this current bid but can thank them for their input as concerned fans.
I'd also add. As I have before. Both bids have positives and negatives from what I know.
To what extent Farnell's links with the bid are we don't know and therefore cannot draw any solid conclusions on it either way. It merely gives people an insight into their own dealings. Yet again we can't read too much into it as we don't know all the details of this current bid but can thank them for their input as concerned fans.
I'd also add. As I have before. Both bids have positives and negatives from what I know.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
So do you think staunch partners are buying burnley football club....Charlton Boy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:56 amScreenshot for you Grumps, seems like you can't see my full post ..
Screenshot 2020-11-18 at 10.54.31.png
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Let's just get the club sold
We are in danger of another fake no money scenario from Mike in January if we dont resolve this fast.
As we know solicitors only work 2 hrs a day and with Christmas coming they will be on a 5weeks holiday early December
We are in danger of another fake no money scenario from Mike in January if we dont resolve this fast.
As we know solicitors only work 2 hrs a day and with Christmas coming they will be on a 5weeks holiday early December
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The whole thread is newspaper reports that may or may not be true. Farnell, Pace, ALK, Elkashashy, none of it is confirmed.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Just to make it clear:
1. Charlton boy didn't say they were buying the club, he said they were looking to buy the club, which is a different thing.
2. Even if they aren't looking to buy the club the whole point of the discussion is that we believe they are.
3. You've made your point about a possible error, so you can now stop making it.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Please could you point me in the direction of the firms which would allow me to work 2hrs a day, and start my Xmas holidays tomorrowWoodleyclaret wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:45 amLet's just get the club sold
We are in danger of another fake no money scenario from Mike in January if we dont resolve this fast.
As we know solicitors only work 2 hrs a day and with Christmas coming they will be on a 5weeks holiday early December