Fixed penalty notice for littering

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tim_noone
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by tim_noone » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:49 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:If you went to the police and said “I saw Burnley Ace go into my back yard and take my bike” would you espect the police to say “if you haven’t got it on video there is nothing we can do”. How do you think Courts worked before video cameras were invented?
In the cases of Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley I'd say Badly......

operator
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by operator » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:52 pm

Interesting vid on littering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-YNOuUAzfs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Burnley Ace
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:07 am

Firthy wrote:Stalemate. They can't convict without evidence and take the word of one person over another even if he is an official. You could stitch anybody up if that was the case and that would be corrupt.
That’s why the Magistrates look at the demeanour of the witness and their credibility. They can (and do) take the word of one witness over the other.

Burnley Ace
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:15 am

operator wrote:Interesting vid on littering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-YNOuUAzfs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Firstly he deliberately reads out the guidelines incorrectly (or he is too thick to actually understand them, it’s debatable). The officer has to give the opportunity to pick up if it’s accidental littering not if it’s done deliberately. Then the offence is committed on land open to the air so it doesn’t matter who owns it, the defence is having owners permission. 2 massive errors in the first minute, and 300,000 views!! What a prick.

dsr
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by dsr » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:48 am

tim_noone wrote:In the cases of Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley I'd say Badly......
As it happens, neither of those would have been affected by CCTV. In the first case, the murderer (Christie) wasn't going to go to the police and try and get them to ignore Evans' dubious confession; in the second, there was very little doubt about what Bentley was doing during the armed robbery, just the degree of criminality.

Jakubclaret
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:56 am

Burnley Ace wrote:That’s why the Magistrates look at the demeanour of the witness and their credibility. They can (and do) take the word of one witness over the other.
Isn’t any choice in the matter if you’ve got 2 conflicting witness statements & you need to make a decision on the credibility, that’s been standard procedure for years.

Burnley Ace
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:39 am

Jakubclaret wrote:Isn’t any choice in the matter if you’ve got 2 conflicting witness statements & you need to make a decision on the credibility, that’s been standard procedure for years.
It’s to prove beyond reasonable doubt not beyond all doubt. The prosecutor doesn’t just ask “did you drop the cig” “no” “ok no further questions”

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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:34 am

Burnley Ace wrote:It’s to prove beyond reasonable doubt not beyond all doubt. The prosecutor doesn’t just ask “did you drop the cig” “no” “ok no further questions”
For somebody dropping a cigarette it's a moot point, I'd be surprised if that particular offence ever saw the light of day in a court room, you'd own up or it'd get dropped. The courts are inundated with more serious offences than people littering.

Burnley Ace
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:48 am

Jakubclaret wrote:For somebody dropping a cigarette it's a moot point, I'd be surprised if that particular offence ever saw the light of day in a court room, you'd own up or it'd get dropped. The courts are inundated with more serious offences than people littering.
Littering? There are hundreds of prosecutions a week, the vast majority dealt with by SJP and Courts are empty which is why they are closing them.

Jakubclaret
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:58 am

Burnley Ace wrote:Littering? There are hundreds of prosecutions a week, the vast majority dealt with by SJP and Courts are empty which is why they are closing them.
Well I've only been up a hr & they say you learn something new everyday so that's a early start, for something so trivial I was under the impression you received a on the spot fine & had so long to pay it off if you didn't it'd increase, & eventually bailiffs would come knocking if you simply ignored.

Firthy
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Firthy » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:25 am

Jakubclaret wrote:Well I've only been up a hr & they say you learn something new everyday so that's a early start, for something so trivial I was under the impression you received a on the spot fine & had so long to pay it off if you didn't it'd increase, & eventually bailiffs would come knocking if you simply ignored.
How can they give you an on the spot fine if, like the OP you didn't do it.

Jakubclaret
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:30 am

Firthy wrote:How can they give you an on the spot fine if, like the OP you didn't do it.
Sorry should have clarified, I meant when it was obvious & the offender admitted, less obvious cases & when people are adamant of not being guilty, things would be contested & evidence would be the crux.

Burnley Ace
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:01 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Well I've only been up a hr & they say you learn something new everyday so that's a early start, for something so trivial I was under the impression you received a on the spot fine & had so long to pay it off if you didn't it'd increase, & eventually bailiffs would come knocking if you simply ignored.
You get given a fixed penalty which is your opportunity to settle the matter without going to Court. If you don’t want to take that opportunity then it goes to Court and you can enter your plea (by post or online). If it’s a not guilty plea then it relisted in Magistrates Court for a trial date to be fixed, trials take about an hour and Magistrates decide.

Any fine is now the responsibility of the Court to collect which can, ultimately, lead to prison (but that’s a long way off)

Reb
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Reb » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:27 pm

If there is one person that knows ALL about this it's Burnley Ace so my advice would be to genuinely look at what he has to say. Believe me when I say his knowledge on this subject is more than any other poster.
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Fenwick
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Fenwick » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:35 pm

Update on this. Was supposed to be going to the magistrates this week for a case management hearing which decides how the case is going to be conducted.

Got a letter from Pendle Council saying they are dropping the prosecution. Probably because the enforcement officer hadn't followed the guidelines, had got the time of the alleged offence wrong by 15 minutes and had got the name of the road wrong. All of which I could prove.

Genuinely gutted. Had been rehearsing cross-examination and everything !
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Burnley1989
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Burnley1989 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:46 pm

Fenwick wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:35 pm
Update on this. Was supposed to be going to the magistrates this week for a case management hearing which decides how the case is going to be conducted.

Got a letter from Pendle Council saying they are dropping the prosecution. Probably because the enforcement officer hadn't followed the guidelines, had got the time of the alleged offence wrong by 15 minutes and had got the name of the road wrong. All of which I could prove.

Genuinely gutted. Had been rehearsing cross-examination and everything !
Haha always nice to win though! I’ve appealed a few things over the years but never won, mainly because I was guilty :lol:
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claptrappers_union
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by claptrappers_union » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:49 pm

I’d just walk away from them. They can’t make you give them your name and address...

Gerry Hattrick
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Gerry Hattrick » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:56 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:49 pm
I’d just walk away from them. They can’t make you give them your name and address...
But you're in more trouble if ya don't:-

"Fixed penalty notices (FPNs) are tickets that are given to offenders “on the spot”. Authorised officers issuing a FPN can request the name and the address of the person who has dropped litter. If that person fails to provide these details, or provides false of inaccurate details, then it is an offence and can result in a maximum fine of £1,000. Offenders have 14 days to pay if given a FPN".

JohnMac
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by JohnMac » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:46 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:22 pm
There's people on the Greenway walking path in Padiham that wander around with binoculars trying to spot people not picking up their dog ****.
I have walked the Greenway regularly for 4 years and never once seen anyone with binoculars. I would notice as I am a birdwatching enthusiast.
:roll:

Inchy
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Inchy » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:41 am

Is throwing a banana skin into a bush littering? It’s biodegradable and good compost.

Same with an Apple core

Asking for a friend

Inchy
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Inchy » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:53 am

If you just leg it then there is nothing they can do. I’ve seen these enforcement types. They’re either massively overweight, roid head, or often a combination of both. Either way they can’t run. Although having said that i can’t imagine a smoker will get far either.

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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by claptrappers_union » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:31 am

Inchy wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:41 am
Is throwing a banana skin into a bush littering? It’s biodegradable and good compost.

Same with an Apple core

Asking for a friend
It was in Wales in 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/8331211.stm

Cirrus_Minor
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:24 am

I do a fair bit of walking around Pendle, many pathways, alleys, and open fields. One thing that winds me up is seeing 'doggy bags', filled with dog crap, tied up and then hung on fences, etc. I even saw one in Barrowford on Sunday hanging off a turnstile type gate entrance to a footpath. It is not just the odd one, they become more and more prolific with them festooned all over the place. Why are people so lazy that they cannot take their pooches sh1te to a bin?

Rant over.

Eyres_11
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Eyres_11 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:28 am

Fenwick wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:01 pm
I've been given one of these for alledgedly dropping a cigarette butt on the pavement. I was smoking but put the butt in a bin 20 yards before the enforcement people leapt out of the bushes. I even went back to the bin and fished it out to show them !

Has anyone had experience of challanging this sort of thing, because i will go to prison before paying a penny !
i just told him to **** before I smack him , he went away, didn't come back. Never heard a thing.

Eyres_11
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Eyres_11 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:30 am

claretdj wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:57 pm
I spotted the 2 asian guys giving the fines out now numerous times around colne & I have come to the conclusion that it's only white people who litter.. :lol:
had runnings with one of them lads - he followed me with his mates in a car from Morrisons in Nelson windows down calling me a 'white mother ******'

made a complaint, no fine. But he is still working - funny his camera wasn't on then.

Burnley Ace
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:09 am

Eyres_11 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:30 am
had runnings with one of them lads - he followed me with his mates in a car from Morrisons in Nelson windows down calling me a 'white mother ******'

made a complaint, no fine. But he is still working - funny his camera wasn't on then.
Was that before or after you told him to **** off and ran away?

Eyres_11
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Eyres_11 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:15 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:09 am
Was that before or after you told him to **** off and ran away?
had it twice, once morrisons once lidl.

complete bell end - plenty on the book of face complaining about him - the guys is a moron.

the very fact he racially abused me is a disgrace.

IanMcL
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by IanMcL » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:18 am

Eyres_11 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:30 am
had runnings with one of them lads - he followed me with his mates in a car from Morrisons in Nelson windows down calling me a 'white mother ******'

made a complaint, no fine. But he is still working - funny his camera wasn't on then.
Did he know you?

Eyres_11
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Eyres_11 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:49 am

IanMcL wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:18 am
Did he know you?
Knew me from our first encounter.

Stayingup
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by Stayingup » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:45 pm

There always seems to be chewing gum on the pavements and pedestrian areas in our cities and towns. Is spitting out gum, then not a litter offence. I find it terrible.

IanMcL
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Re: Fixed penalty notice for littering

Post by IanMcL » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:56 pm

Eyres_11 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:49 am
Knew me from our first encounter.
Ha! I was cheekily referring to what you said he called you!

Got my crash hat on!

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