ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The quicker MG is out the better. He’s no money and not willing to loosen the clubs purse strings.
Been like that for a while now
Been like that for a while now
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I've got to agree with this. Being a self-sustaining club being owned by fans is a rarity and made what we achieved that much more satisfying.Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:20 pmI know I'm in the minority, but I liked the way MG ran the club. Not for profit, and living within our sustainable means, was painful but necessary. I'd have plodded on as we were, and if that meant relegation so be it.
But the thought that we aren't going to the Egyptian bid, fills me with so much relief it makes the whole thing bearable.
UTC
Garlick has undoubtedly overseen the most successful period the club has had for the past 50 years with the obvious improvements on the pitch coupled with improvements in areas like the academy and training ground, helped to keep us afloat when we are struggling and invested countless hours with no charge to get us where we are now.
It's possible (although pretty unlikely) that he's just an incredibly astute businessman who managed to map out a path from us struggling in the Championship to established in the Premier League whilst simultaneously foreseeing the increased interest in purchasing football clubs and, if so, all credit to him and I imagine there will be dozens of clubs clamouring for his services once he leaves Burnley.
I think it's more likely though that he got involved as a fan and it went on from there.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hi Paul - I am referring to the extraction of value for personal gain that in my opinion is disproportionate to the risks of ownership and contrary to the doctrine of custodianship. I am bemoaning a lack of imagination with regards to how that value may be retained in some way by others, in the interests of the Club as a community entity, not a private limited company. One possible route would be increased supporter ownership and Board representation, although I appreciate it is not a simple matter. There must be other trust mechanics worthy of discussion.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:51 pmHi Duffer, what's the part that "doesn't sit well" for you? If MG was paid £1 to sell to new owners, or £1 million or £100 million or £100 billion it makes absolutely no difference to the assets in the club. It's the new owners who are deciding where they value their ownership of BFC and their desire to take the club forward is reflected in their valuation of the club.
Exciting times.
UTC
I don't see Burnley through the lens of orthodox high capitalism and feel we could become something unique in modern day football. Of course this relies on a Board with an imagination, wanting something other than maximum personal gain.
As I said, I am under no illusions as to the popularity of this approach
Exciting times but could be exhilarating times!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
He more than likely is an astute business man but football is not a normal business, he got lucky when he appointed Sean Dyche
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I'm pretty certain it was more than a few years back. 2012 was the main chunk I think when he was also loaning the club money to keep afloat. There were a few further share issues a year after that from what I remember but not major.MACCA wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 pmThink it's more when he went from relatively small share holder to becoming the sole Chairman.
Quite a clever and well timed move, as it was only a few years back, and has probably doubled his net worth in just a few years because of it.
But good a businessman can smell out a good deal and act on it at just the right time, which in fairness to Mike, it looks like he timed it almost perfectly.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
OK. I see where you are coming from. I'd be very surprised if a "fans/community trust" football club could exist in League 2 these days. Certainly not in the Championship and impossible in the Premier League. Why is this? It's all the money that the footballers insist on being paid. Maybe if they would also enter into the spirit of being part of a "fans trust" team.... No, that wouldn't be fair on Tarks, Nick Pope, Ben Mee, Dwight McNeil et al - and certainly the club wouldn't have a manager like Sean Dyche.Duffer_ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:01 pmHi Paul - I am referring to the extraction of value for personal gain that in my opinion is disproportionate to the risks of ownership and contrary to the doctrine of custodianship. I am bemoaning a lack of imagination with regards to how that value may be retained in some way by others, in the interests of the Club as a community entity, not a private limited company. One possible route would be increased supporter ownership and Board representation, although I appreciate it is not a simple matter. There must be other trust mechanics worthy of discussion.
I don't see Burnley through the lens of orthodox high capitalism and feel we could become something unique in modern day football. Of course this relies on a Board with an imagination, wanting something other than maximum personal gain.
As I said, I am under no illusions as to the popularity of this approach
Exciting times but could be exhilarating times!
As above, the amount MG and JB get paid for their shares reflects 2 things and only two things (1) how will they've directed the club both on the field and off it and (2) the desire of new owners to own the club at a price that MG/JB will agree to sell it to them.
It would take an extremely wealthy fan base to be able to buy a Premier League club.
Exciting times.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Right_winger wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:53 pmThe quicker MG is out the better. He’s no money and not willing to loosen the clubs purse strings.
Been like that for a while now
I really don't think our Mike's gonna be in the queue for the soup kitchen anytime soon.
In fact I'm far from convinced that the new owners will have more liquid assets at their disposal than the current management.
I remember the general knicker wetting around Ewood that heralded their great new saviours 10 years ago. That turned out well. For us.
Careful what you wish for folks.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Looking as though we'll be waiting until the turkey has gone now - the potential new owners will be back home for their Happy Holiday I would think.mybloodisclaret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:39 pmNo news today.... hopefully the best first gift of Christmas tomorrow...
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Yes, Mike Garlick has made a packet from the success of the Club, but so have many others. The other directors have of course, so has the manager, so have the manager’s assistants and their back room team, so have the current playing staff, so have the ex-players that have been either sold on or converted into successful club managers.
The Club itself has greatly benefitted - Gawthorpe, income from Sky, sponsorship, youth development, community work, worldwide media exposure.
All this under the direction of the current board under the leadership of Garlick, who was brave enough to buy into the club when things weren’t quite so rosey.
I’ve never met Mike Garlick and can’t comment on his character but I don’t begrudge him a penny of whatever windfall may or may not land in his lap.
Well done Mike, I say.
UTC
The Club itself has greatly benefitted - Gawthorpe, income from Sky, sponsorship, youth development, community work, worldwide media exposure.
All this under the direction of the current board under the leadership of Garlick, who was brave enough to buy into the club when things weren’t quite so rosey.
I’ve never met Mike Garlick and can’t comment on his character but I don’t begrudge him a penny of whatever windfall may or may not land in his lap.
Well done Mike, I say.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Maybe not financially but I think we as supporters have made a packet out of it too in being able to watch all this Premier League football.IWOODLOVETT wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:20 pmYes, Mike Garlick has made a packet from the success of the Club, but so have many others. The other directors have of course, so has the manager, so have the manager’s assistants and their back room team, so have the current playing staff, so have the ex-players that have been either sold on or converted into successful club managers.
The Club itself has greatly benefitted - Gawthorpe, income from Sky, sponsorship, youth development, community work, worldwide media exposure.
All this under the leadership of the current board under the leadership of Garlick, who was brave enough to buy into the club when things weren’t quite so rosey.
I’ve never met Mike Garlick and can’t comment on his character but I don’t begrudge him a penny of whatever windfall may or may not land in his lap.
Well done Mike, I say.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I never contemplated full supporter (trust) ownership. My evolving proposal relies on outgoing benevolent custodians gifting part of their windfall to supporters to act in the long term interests of the Club. A sort of voluntary tax on the sale of BFC shares that is used to retain a meaningful stake and voice in the Club under the control of a Supporters Trust type organisation.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:11 pmIt would take an extremely wealthy fan base to be able to buy a Premier League club.
Of course new owners may be reluctant to purchase the Club on those terms but that in itself would be telling. I would have no problem (that's good of me I hear you say) with the supporters stake being diluted by additional investment, which in itself would probably represent renewed growth in asset value.
It might be complete balderdash, and thank you for engaging with me on the subject. I suppose my objection comes down to a sense that the accumulation of vast personal wealth is at odds with the notion of custodianship. I can't help feeling that this isn't consistent with a One Club mentality and with imagination, will and more nouse (than I have) we, as supporters, could have come up with an interesting way forward that allowed investment AND better safeguarded the future of our Club.
Thanks again for a civil conversation on the subject.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I'd be really interested to see if we can keeps Tarks, given we may be able to get to a weekly wage that would suit and also that we may have some decent in coming transfers.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Just as I thought, impending rather than imminent.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That's fair enough, and I don't think anyone could argue with that, given the absolute rubbish year we have had everyone wants to be as far as possible with loved ones. Hopefully early Jan.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:20 pmLooking as though we'll be waiting until the turkey has gone now - the potential new owners will be back home for their Happy Holiday I would think.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That's fair enough, and I don't think anyone could argue with that, given the absolute rubbish year we have had everyone wants to be as far as possible with loved ones. Hopefully early Jan.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:20 pmLooking as though we'll be waiting until the turkey has gone now - the potential new owners will be back home for their Happy Holiday I would think.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
And, you, too, on the "civils," Duffer.Duffer_ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:38 pmI never contemplated full supporter (trust) ownership. My evolving proposal relies on outgoing benevolent custodians gifting part of their windfall to supporters to act in the long term interests of the Club. A sort of voluntary tax on the sale of BFC shares that is used to retain a meaningful stake and voice in the Club under the control of a Supporters Trust type organisation.
Of course new owners may be reluctant to purchase the Club on those terms but that in itself would be telling. I would have no problem (that's good of me I hear you say) with the supporters stake being diluted by additional investment, which in itself would probably represent renewed growth in asset value.
It might be complete balderdash, and thank you for engaging with me on the subject. I suppose my objection comes down to a sense that the accumulation of vast personal wealth is at odds with the notion of custodianship. I can't help feeling that this isn't consistent with a One Club mentality and with imagination, will and more nouse (than I have) we, as supporters, could have come up with an interesting way forward that allowed investment AND better safeguarded the future of our Club.
Thanks again for a civil conversation on the subject.
I think "two tiers" of ownership would result in extreme instability for a club in the top divisions. I can imagine that even agreement on allowing additional investment on one side to dilute the fans' trust would generate instability. Small clubs, lower or non-league divisions can possibly manage it - possible example being Wrexham. (I wish Wrexham ever success in the lower leagues). The German Bundesliga model of ownership is also experiencing stress, particularly with, RB Leipzig (I think I'm quoting the right club) who are challenging the traditional German fan ownership.
Sean Dyche dislikes the fact that he "doesn't get the backing" while the market moves away from BFC's finances. I fear it would be exactly the same with a fans' trust holding some of the shares - unless those fans were prepared to "stump up" to meet the club's investment in the team demands.
It's a "rock and a hard place" situation. We can either be owned by owners who have the wherewithal to seek to take the club forward (there are no guarantees) or were "pull back," put the last decade into the "clarets legends" years and be content with the future peak(s) maybe being the Championship.
I'm going to pass on the "exciting times" with this post - except we can all "dare to dream." So...
Exciting times.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Lets hope they're able to travel freely between the US and UK after ChristmasClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:20 pmLooking as though we'll be waiting until the turkey has gone now - the potential new owners will be back home for their Happy Holiday I would think.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Any travel ban might not include somewhere like Jersey. They could meet there if necessary.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Wrexham is no longer fan owned, they've been bought out by Hollywood.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:11 pmAnd, you, too, on the "civils," Duffer.
I think "two tiers" of ownership would result in extreme instability for a club in the top divisions. I can imagine that even agreement on allowing additional investment on one side to dilute the fans' trust would generate instability. Small clubs, lower or non-league divisions can possibly manage it - possible example being Wrexham. (I wish Wrexham ever success in the lower leagues). The German Bundesliga model of ownership is also experiencing stress, particularly with, RB Leipzig (I think I'm quoting the right club) who are challenging the traditional German fan ownership.
Sean Dyche dislikes the fact that he "doesn't get the backing" while the market moves away from BFC's finances. I fear it would be exactly the same with a fans' trust holding some of the shares - unless those fans were prepared to "stump up" to meet the club's investment in the team demands.
It's a "rock and a hard place" situation. We can either be owned by owners who have the wherewithal to seek to take the club forward (there are no guarantees) or were "pull back," put the last decade into the "clarets legends" years and be content with the future peak(s) maybe being the Championship.
I'm going to pass on the "exciting times" with this post - except we can all "dare to dream." So...
Exciting times.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Who, the cake bloke?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Big Jon Parkin being lined up as their first signing
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Americans do Christmas day and that's it, thanks giving is a far bigger deal over here for some reasonClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:20 pmLooking as though we'll be waiting until the turkey has gone now - the potential new owners will be back home for their Happy Holiday I would think.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
No one getting in and out of Jersey easily mate , rate is through the roof here 1,000 per 100,000IWOODLOVETT wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:41 pmAny travel ban might not include somewhere like Jersey. They could meet there if necessary.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Thanking the native Americans so they didn't starve to death should always be a big deal!Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:51 pmAmericans do Christmas day and that's it, thanks giving is a far bigger deal over here for some reason
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
A parting swipe in tonight’s press conference? Joking about the Christmas tree he said “it took me four years to get them to pay for a new tree that’s how the money can be in this place”
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Criticism of the Directors ...
A fair amount of criticism directed at Mike G and John B, surrounding the current potential takeover ...
Whilst wealthy individuals in the greater scheme of things, they are relative " paupers " in the world of Premier League Club owners. They are local men who've done very well for themselves in the business world, and I suspect could have continued to concentrate on their core businesses, and then sold out relaxed, and retired early to an a place of their choice. But, they did not. They chose to invest in Burnley FC, continuing Barry Kilby's fantastic work. I suspect their business's necessitate their time is largely spent around London, but they've chosen to back our club, with the travel and time involved.
Another local man who made good, Andy Brown, chose to keep his money invested in his home town, and developed the Crowood Leisure and Spa facility, which now includes Bertrams Restaurant and the new Hotel. Mr Brown first submitted his plans nearly 20 years ago, and after 8 weeks, phoned to see how his application was proceeding. He was told that the Council planning department had only just opened it. " Friends of the Earth " and the " Burnley Civic Trust " objected to it. At a crucial planning meeting, many Councillors were undecided, until one exploded in annoyance, " What are you doing ? This man could p**s off to the Bahamas with his money, but he wants to re-invest into Burnley, and we keep putting up barriers ! " . The application was eventually approved, and his hard work and willingness to invest has resulted in the tremendous facility we see today ... even though it's gone through a tough time during the Covid19 issues .. I hope you see my point !
Where would our Club have been without Messrs: Kilby, Garlick and Banaszkiewicz ??
Whilst wealthy individuals in the greater scheme of things, they are relative " paupers " in the world of Premier League Club owners. They are local men who've done very well for themselves in the business world, and I suspect could have continued to concentrate on their core businesses, and then sold out relaxed, and retired early to an a place of their choice. But, they did not. They chose to invest in Burnley FC, continuing Barry Kilby's fantastic work. I suspect their business's necessitate their time is largely spent around London, but they've chosen to back our club, with the travel and time involved.
Another local man who made good, Andy Brown, chose to keep his money invested in his home town, and developed the Crowood Leisure and Spa facility, which now includes Bertrams Restaurant and the new Hotel. Mr Brown first submitted his plans nearly 20 years ago, and after 8 weeks, phoned to see how his application was proceeding. He was told that the Council planning department had only just opened it. " Friends of the Earth " and the " Burnley Civic Trust " objected to it. At a crucial planning meeting, many Councillors were undecided, until one exploded in annoyance, " What are you doing ? This man could p**s off to the Bahamas with his money, but he wants to re-invest into Burnley, and we keep putting up barriers ! " . The application was eventually approved, and his hard work and willingness to invest has resulted in the tremendous facility we see today ... even though it's gone through a tough time during the Covid19 issues .. I hope you see my point !
Where would our Club have been without Messrs: Kilby, Garlick and Banaszkiewicz ??
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
All makes sense, though so too do many of the criticisms.
The truth, as so often, is likely to be a bit of both.
The truth, as so often, is likely to be a bit of both.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
I think most understand why the club has been run the way it has been, I think most understand that it has been beyond their means to take it forward rather than backwards for at least the last 2 seasons. Most will thank them I'm sure for their careful stewardship of the club and hope that ALK can re-ignite the forward momentum
I for one expect us to win the league within 4 years and to be challenging for the Champions League
I for one expect us to win the league within 4 years and to be challenging for the Champions League
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
They've been wonderful custodians and the club has outgrown them which is testament to their continuing Barry Kilby's great work. The fact they recognise that and are willing to sell to the right people with (we believe) the right intentions is another box ticked. The complelety undue criticism has been shameful frankly.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
I wonder who will buy our current squad.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
Venkys...
Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
I've no criticism of the current Directors. I've had the pleasure of premier league football for several seasons now along with one season being f.o.c. I can only thank them for their tenure.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
He’s made a joke about the tree nearly every year he’s been here.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
IMO the directors have been brilliant for a number of years now and especially during the Dyche era. They have run the club well and prudently and as exactly as you would expect custodian/supporters to do. I would never criticise any of them as they've never taken a penny out of the club to my knowledge, it's never been about themselves or their own egos, unlike some chairmen and directors and they must have inadvertently spent loads in travel and other incidental expenses during their "labour of love". Fortunately for them they got really, really lucky with the appointment of SD and even luckier in that their shares which were worth next to nothing when they got into the club look like bringing them a hefty windfall. Good luck to them I say and I don't begrudge them anything they make, especially because making money was never their primary aim back at the start and never has been. I actually believe that they can see exactly what most of us can see and that is that for BFC to remain competitive in the PL (or even upper Championship) there needs to be investment well beyond anything they can personally afford and so they are gracefully trying to do their level best for the club by moving aside and selling out to someone they think/pray will provide that investment along with a safe pair of hands. Fingers crossed they get it right.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
Lets hope if and when we get new owners they make a good profit when they decide to sell as well. Wonder if those who are really unhappy with Garlick making a profit would prefer the next owners to make a huge loss ?
Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
Yet another sycophants thread with plenty of cap doffing and brown nosing , can someone pass me a bucket please .
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
I fully support the Owners. The last ten years have been fabulous. They have guided the Club to success while keeping the finances sound. They have invested in wonderful training facilities. And they appointed Sean. Coronavirus really created a very uncertain world.
A change of ownership does not mean huge amounts of cash to sign several top players. I suspect we would see 1 or 2 high profile signings at the most, and even that doesn’t guarantee we would finish any higher than where we already are.
A change of ownership does not mean huge amounts of cash to sign several top players. I suspect we would see 1 or 2 high profile signings at the most, and even that doesn’t guarantee we would finish any higher than where we already are.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
You’ll find that those that dislike people and complain and judge 24/7 about those who are successful are generally the ones that have failed in life by not trying and have a huge chip on their shoulder. That’s across all walks of life, those at work that moan about the managers and hate the place, yet have been there 30 years and work overtime because they’re unhappy at home as well.
They’ve done a great job, now it’s probably time for a change. Good luck to them!
They’ve done a great job, now it’s probably time for a change. Good luck to them!
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
I wonder if our upturn in results will see a reduction in the clamour for new investment.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
You think people may no longer want the takeover ??boatshed bill wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:34 amI wonder if our upturn in results will see a reduction in the clamour for new investment.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
I hear what everyone is saying, but communication costs nothing.They have one of the most loyal fan bases but choose to ignore them. Burnley's fan base is Burnleys customer base. If it was not for the Message Board, and largely down to the efforts of CT, we would be absolutely in the dark, in what is one of the most important changes in our history-a likely take-over. We had heard absolutely nothing since May, other than what our CEO came out with several months ago,of which the only thing I can remember was the assurance of signings in 7 days time.Lets see!
As successful business men in their own rights our senior board members should hold their heads in shame
As successful business men in their own rights our senior board members should hold their heads in shame
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
What's with the "no longer"? I've never wanted a takeover and would much prefer the club to remain locally owned; if that eventually saw us playing back in the Championship, or even lower, the so be it.
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Re: Criticism of the Directors ...
Quite honestly, I think some were seeing investment as a means of staving off what looked like relegation without thinking any further.