Nail on the head! Most football fans (on this board too) do not grasp this.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:26 pmThey weren't "Doing nothing" though.
In the last 5 years, there's investment in the first team to a level allowing for 2 top 10 finishes. There's a brand new training ground. There's a category 1 academy to allow for future revenue streams into the business. They have updated the disabled facilities. They have invested into the foundations of the scouting network.
So they were moving forward, with a focus on improving the things they felt needed improving. They may have stood still for the last 10 months, but that would be a success compared to most businesses who have gone backwards. Even big clubs like Barcelona and Inter are reporting huge, unsustainable losses. The plan at Burnley has given sustainability even through this. What it didn't allow was for the yearly addition of 1 player for the first team squad.
Expansion that is too quick with no clear strategy, in a business area with a 30-40% chance of losing your main income stream is very risky, and why so many football clubs just fall through the leagues from the Prem all the way to the bottom.
The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Re: Selling our soul
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Re: Selling our soul
Quick Tubbs save the special things!!!!!Venkys4eva wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:26 pmLocal club run by local people... very league of gentlemen
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Re: Selling our soul
The Preston North End " Invincibles " that went undefeated for the first ever League season in 1888-89, were comprised of a majority of Scotsmen, and the first ever Liverpool team to play a League fixture was composed entirely of Scots ..... It was forever thus !Claretmisterg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:49 pmHaving all local players went out when professional players came in in the 19th century. Having local managers/coaches soon went the same way. Having local ownership persisted the longest but foreign ownership is now the norm at the level we want to play. In order to compete at this level we must follow the trend.
Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
What happens if SD voices his concerns about player budgets, like he has done on a number of occasions?
Many foreign owners have taken exception to this at various clubs due to different disagreements and before you know it, the manager gets sacked.
I just hope our new owners are aware of the need to keep our best manager in decades regardless of any difference of opinion.
Rovers got rid of Big Sam.....
Many foreign owners have taken exception to this at various clubs due to different disagreements and before you know it, the manager gets sacked.
I just hope our new owners are aware of the need to keep our best manager in decades regardless of any difference of opinion.
Rovers got rid of Big Sam.....
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Sean Dyche doesn’t run Burnley Football Club
Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
There's an article in the clitheroe advertiser about the men behind ALK.
https://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.uk/s ... ey-3082651
Interesting that one is John Dewey described as "An experienced Chief Operations Officer". Could he be coming in as CEO? I can't see him coming in and reporting to Neil Hart.
https://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.uk/s ... ey-3082651
Interesting that one is John Dewey described as "An experienced Chief Operations Officer". Could he be coming in as CEO? I can't see him coming in and reporting to Neil Hart.
Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
No, but without him we wouldn't have had the success we've had in recent years.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
when you read that it has to fill you with confidence, cheers for the linkdibraidio wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:45 pmThere's an article in the clitheroe advertiser about the men behind ALK.
https://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.uk/s ... ey-3082651
Interesting that one is John Dewey described as "An experienced Chief Operations Officer". Could he be coming in as CEO? I can't see him coming in and reporting to Neil Hart.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Come on....I'm sure you said they had taken no financial gain out of the club?Clarets4me wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:35 amI'm fairly sure both MG and JB will have arranged the payments for their shares in a tax-efficient manner, perhaps spread over two or more tax years ...
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Hopefully, then Hart can go back to running a charity, rather than a Premier League football club.dibraidio wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:45 pmThere's an article in the clitheroe advertiser about the men behind ALK.
https://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.uk/s ... ey-3082651
Interesting that one is John Dewey described as "An experienced Chief Operations Officer". Could he be coming in as CEO? I can't see him coming in and reporting to Neil Hart.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
I'm quoting clarets4me...so the balls in his court.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Interesting read that article.
The main theme is as I suspected they all know how to make money. That’s their goal in life.
The main theme is as I suspected they all know how to make money. That’s their goal in life.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
which you can only do if you are successful - ambition, a wonderful thing in the right handsLowbankclaret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:20 pmInteresting read that article.
The main theme is as I suspected they all know how to make money. That’s their goal in life.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
This takeover saddens me in some ways but accept it had to happen probably so the club can survive , but lets not forget that Burnley FC has become attractive BECAUSE of the excellent stewardship of Messrs Garlick JB and Barry Kilby and the management team under Sean Dyche.If your in favour of the takeover you have to acknowledge that this would not have happened without these guys amazing management of our beloved club.
UTC
UTC
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
While I fully agree with your sentiments Spijed maybe a little bit more of no longer being the big fish in a small pond, will hopefully bring a different challenge for SD and he will really show us what he is made of on a more even field. SD has a new challenge, and he must adapt and rise to it. He is no longer in charge of a small town successful business.... he will be judged by the new owners on what he does from now and secondly what he has achieved. It will buy him time, but rightly no longer bring the untouchability he has enjoyed under local control.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
I think Dyche will have to get used to having a lot less power under the new owners. Things like pre season, its clear up to now he's had 100% control over it, but i expect ALK will have bigger plans than playing Fleetwood or Accy every year.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:34 pmWhile I fully agree with your sentiments Spijed maybe a little bit more of no longer being the big fish in a small pond, will hopefully bring a different challenge for SD and he will really show us what he is made of on a more even field. SD has a new challenge, and he must adapt and rise to it. He is no longer in charge of a small town successful business.... he will be judged by the new owners on what he does from now and secondly what he has achieved. It will buy him time, but rightly no longer bring the untouchability he has enjoyed under local control.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
A very impressive group of gentlemen, welcome on board UTCdibraidio wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:45 pmThere's an article in the clitheroe advertiser about the men behind ALK.
https://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.uk/s ... ey-3082651
Interesting that one is John Dewey described as "An experienced Chief Operations Officer". Could he be coming in as CEO? I can't see him coming in and reporting to Neil Hart.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
A lot different to John Williams - he was an employee of Blackburn RoversSpijed wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:05 pmThis is taken from the Rovers message board:
"Only time will tell.
The public statement and retention of Garlick on the board aren't any different to what Venkys came out with when they kept John Williams as chairman.
I doubt the Americans will be so reckless or foolish as Venkys but they may well have very different ideas to those Garlick and Dyche have. e.g. they may want different types of players or a better style of play in return for their investment."
Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
That worries me slightly. Perhaps he feels playing the likes of Fleetwood gets the players in the right frame of mind. Who knows whether playing bigger teams in a pre-season tournament over in America would work so well, for example?
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
So you are getting worried about whether we are going to play a pre-season game at Fleetwood
Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
I just cant understand the negativity, trepidation yes but some of the comments today beggar belief. Each to their own I suppose.
Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
No at all. I'd just want SD to retain control over who we play.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:50 pmSo you are getting worried about whether we are going to play a pre-season game at Fleetwood
Re: Selling our soul
Excellentdandeclaret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:26 pmThey weren't "Doing nothing" though.
In the last 5 years, there's investment in the first team to a level allowing for 2 top 10 finishes. There's a brand new training ground. There's a category 1 academy to allow for future revenue streams into the business. They have updated the disabled facilities. They have invested into the foundations of the scouting network.
So they were moving forward, with a focus on improving the things they felt needed improving. They may have stood still for the last 10 months, but that would be a success compared to most businesses who have gone backwards. Even big clubs like Barcelona and Inter are reporting huge, unsustainable losses. The plan at Burnley has given sustainability even through this. What it didn't allow was for the yearly addition of 1 player for the first team squad.
Expansion that is too quick with no clear strategy, in a business area with a 30-40% chance of losing your main income stream is very risky, and why so many football clubs just fall through the leagues from the Prem all the way to the bottom.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Just wondering why 5 directors have immediately resigned.
And if ALK have used borrowed money who pays the interest?
And if ALK have used borrowed money who pays the interest?
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Because their shares have been bought and thus they can no longer be on the board of directors. I think resigned is the wrong term, they have elected to sell their percentage on to ALK.Rodleydave wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:00 pmJust wondering why 5 directors have immediately resigned.
And if ALK have used borrowed money who pays the interest?
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
No option - they've sold their sharesRodleydave wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:00 pmJust wondering why 5 directors have immediately resigned.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
ah didn't realise they had sold ALL their shares.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Yeeeeehaw Yankee Doodle dandy, from now a Claret and not a Chianti...
Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
I know we've been round this Rileybobs and I too honestly don't understand why we don't see it the same way.
Let's assume a club has £10m in cash and no other assets or liabilities. What is the difference between an owner taking £10m cash from the club in the form of a dividend and selling the club for £1, as opposed to the club buying a player for £10m and the owner immediately selling the club for £10m? In the first scenario the new owner has a club with no assets. In the second scenario the new owner has effectively paid £10m for a £10m player. In BOTH scenarios the old owner has £10m cash.
They have taken the capital growth, the asset value, OF the club. The revenues generated over the years have, in part, been invested in assets. The most significant of these is the first team playing squad. I view it in the same way as I would had they done a sale and leaseback of the squad. We now have temporary rights of use but the asset has effectively been sold and can only be sold for the benefit of BFC once.
Now, I completely understand the argument that they had the right to extract that value as they owned BFC. But to claim there has been no extraction of value is wrong.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
I suspect they will be using same model as the Glaziers.Rodleydave wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:00 pmJust wondering why 5 directors have immediately resigned.
And if ALK have used borrowed money who pays the interest?
They will have borrowed £175 million against BFC.
They will be paid handsomely for their efforts.
The club will pay the interest.
But this will only become knowledge as time goes on.
Let’s see, open to see what the future holds.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Mixed feelings today.
I'm delighted for those who turn up and watch regularly, ST holders in particular.
I genuinely hope this leads to greater things than mere survival in the PL.
Against? I feel we've lost that David vs Goliath thing which for me makes Burnley FC unique.
I'm delighted for those who turn up and watch regularly, ST holders in particular.
I genuinely hope this leads to greater things than mere survival in the PL.
Against? I feel we've lost that David vs Goliath thing which for me makes Burnley FC unique.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
I think they have done a great job over the years, they deserve the windfall they just got.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
I’m not claiming that the directors haven’t financially benefitted from the success of the club. Clearly they have. But they’ve benefited at the expense of ALK Capital, not BFC.Duffer_ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:25 pmI know we've been round this Rileybobs and I too honestly don't understand why we don't see it the same way.
Let's assume a club has £10m in cash and no other assets or liabilities. What is the difference between an owner taking £10m cash from the club in the form of a dividend and selling the club for £1, as opposed to the club buying a player for £10m and the owner immediately selling the club for £10m? In the first scenario the new owner has a club with no assets. In the second scenario the new owner has effectively paid £10m for a £10m player. In BOTH scenarios the old owner has £10m cash.
They have taken the capital growth, the asset value, OF the club. The revenues generated over the years have, in part, been invested in assets. The most significant of these is the first team playing squad. I view it in the same way as I would had they done a sale and leaseback of the squad. We now have temporary rights of use but the asset has effectively been sold and can only be sold for the benefit of BFC once.
Now, I completely understand the argument that they had the right to extract that value as they owned BFC. But to claim there has been no extraction of value is wrong.
The sell-on value of the club was never guaranteed to be higher than the purchase price, so I can’t see how anybody can begrudge them doing well out of the sale, or how they can claim that the directors have taken money from the club.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
that is extremely unlikely and contradictory to what they have saidLowbankclaret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:27 pmI suspect they will be using same model as the Glaziers.
They will have borrowed £175 million against BFC.
They will be paid handsomely for their efforts.
The club will pay the interest.
But this will only become knowledge as time goes on.
Let’s see, open to see what the future holds.
Unlikely because the club does not generate enough operational profit to pay the loan off - only a few clubs in the world could be bought this way
Contradictory because they have said clearly (and to the Premier League) that they have a small number of significant investors
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
That’s good then.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:43 pmthat is extremely unlikely and contradictory to what they have said
Unlikely because the club does not generate enough operational profit to pay the loan off - only a few clubs in the world could be bought this way
Contradictory because they have said clearly (and to the Premier League) that they have a small number of significant investors
Investors do expect returns, let’s hope we have the success that gets them the returns they want.
Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Two days ago BFC had unencumbered net assets of approx £200m. Tomorrow, we could have liabilities in the form of long term debt of £200m and net assets of £0. Even if it is not in the form of long term debt, those assets are acting as security against the investment. If things don't work out then those assets (players) may be sold to service the debt or the capital investment made by ALK. The sale proceeds will not be cash in the bank for BFC.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:35 pmI’m not claiming that the directors haven’t financially benefitted from the success of the club. Clearly they have. But they’ve benefited at the expense of ALK Capital, not BFC.
The sell-on value of the club was never guaranteed to be higher than the purchase price, so I can’t see how anybody can begrudge them doing well out of the sale, or how they can claim that the directors have taken money from the club.
I think you are making too much of the distinction between taking cash out of the club, compared with reducing the realisable assets for the benefit of the club. What matters imo is the extraction of value, not "money".
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Hi Lowbank, as discussed above, Mike Garlick, John B and the other directors have sold shares to Velocity Sports Partners Ltd. In the case of MG and JB, as they are continuing as directors they haven's sold all their shares. The other directors will have sold all their shares. It's reported that this 84% of Burnley FC shares have been sold for £170 million. Let's say that, collectively, these directors, way back in time, paid £40 million (theoretical figures - I don't know what actual figure is). So, today, these directors will have, collectively received a return in the form of a capital gain of £130 million.Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:55 pmThat’s good then.
Investors do expect returns, let’s hope we have the success that gets them the returns they want.
In exactly the same way, the investors who have backed ALK/VSP may only be aiming to receive a return when the club is sold on again to new investors. Who knows, in 5 or 10 years time, if Burnley have remained in the Premier League all that time, the club may be worth £500 million and, maybe a lot more. This increase in value is possible, IF the value of Premier League football clubs follows similar trajectories that have been traced by many US sports franchises.
That's investors for you. They are taking a risk with the aim of making a lot of money. They may all be happy, just as Mike Garlick and John B were happy, not to take any interim rewards as dividends from the club.
Exciting times.
UTC
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
Hi Duffer, take a look at my post. I suggest you consider whether the model I propose - which is exactly the model followed by Mike Garlick and John B - is also an attractive model for ALK/SVP investors.Duffer_ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:10 pmTwo days ago BFC had unencumbered net assets of approx £200m. Tomorrow, we could have liabilities in the form of long term debt of £200m and net assets of £0. Even if it is not in the form of long term debt, those assets are acting as security against the investment. If things don't work out then those assets (players) may be sold to service the debt or the capital investment made by ALK. The sale proceeds will not be cash in the bank for BFC.
I think you are making too much of the distinction between taking cash out of the club, compared with reducing the realisable assets for the benefit of the club. What matters imo is the extraction of value, not "money".
I don't think we know anything about the amount of debt that may be secured against BFC assets - unless numbers have been added to the "blank proformas" that were filed with Companies House in the last few days.
Exciting times.
UTC
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
You’re straying way off the point that I was challenging another poster about, which is that the directors haven’t taken any money out of the club.Duffer_ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:10 pmTwo days ago BFC had unencumbered net assets of approx £200m. Tomorrow, we could have liabilities in the form of long term debt of £200m and net assets of £0. Even if it is not in the form of long term debt, those assets are acting as security against the investment. If things don't work out then those assets (players) may be sold to service the debt or the capital investment made by ALK. The sale proceeds will not be cash in the bank for BFC.
I think you are making too much of the distinction between taking cash out of the club, compared with reducing the realisable assets for the benefit of the club. What matters imo is the extraction of value, not "money".
You can hypothesise about whether ALK will be operating with debt, and how they intend to service it, and you raise some good points. I’m just challenging the posters who are claiming that the directors have taken money from the club, which to my knowledge they haven’t. I don’t wish to go round in circles, but I take exception to people making up lies about other people. Curiously you don’t see the same people accusing Kilby of taking money from the club.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
The jury is out for me. I have been happy with the running of the Club since Barry Kilby has been involved. Let's see how these Colonial Cousins perform before hailing them as the new Messiahs.
Having said that, Alan Pace made the right noises, if a little predictable, during the piece posted by the Club.
COYC !
Having said that, Alan Pace made the right noises, if a little predictable, during the piece posted by the Club.
COYC !
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
I hope all the optimists are correct.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:14 pmHi Lowbank, as discussed above, Mike Garlick, John B and the other directors have sold shares to Velocity Sports Partners Ltd. In the case of MG and JB, as they are continuing as directors they haven's sold all their shares. The other directors will have sold all their shares. It's reported that this 84% of Burnley FC shares have been sold for £170 million. Let's say that, collectively, these directors, way back in time, paid £40 million (theoretical figures - I don't know what actual figure is). So, today, these directors will have, collectively received a return in the form of a capital gain of £130 million.
In exactly the same way, the investors who have backed ALK/VSP may only be aiming to receive a return when the club is sold on again to new investors. Who knows, in 5 or 10 years time, if Burnley have remained in the Premier League all that time, the club may be worth £500 million and, maybe a lot more. This increase in value is possible, IF the value of Premier League football clubs follows similar trajectories that have been traced by many US sports franchises.
That's investors for you. They are taking a risk with the aim of making a lot of money. They may all be happy, just as Mike Garlick and John B were happy, not to take any interim rewards as dividends from the club.
Exciting times.
UTC
That the investors will not want to be taking profit for many years to come.
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Re: The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC
As I said....in the world of Finance and business no one does out for nowt.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:21 pmThey took no wages.
There may have been some financial gain if they loaned the club some money in the past, but that's it.