I think Chappy is a great example of someone grabbing it with both hands. Pushed onto the bench at Norwich ahead of Joel Pilkington who had been taken ill, got on and never looked back.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:26 pmSometimes the penny just drops. Players can be put into that first team environment, and it’s a bit of a shock to the system, and they just learn. Think Chaplow, Kyle Lafferty on loan to Darlington, Jay in Scotland. Sometimes the transformation is huge from the sometimes non competitive nature of the U23 league doesn’t really stretch them enough.
Young Clarets Mumbongo
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
On what pedigree is he moving to league one under? Why should a team take him?Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:26 am6 months in league one would do him the world of good then we can look at him next season imho
We’ve a massively over inflated ‘we’re premier league’ ego when it comes to youth players.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Daniel, on a completely different topic, where is the signing that you were talking about the other week?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:10 pmOn what pedigree is he moving to league one under? Why should a team take him?
We’ve a massively over inflated ‘we’re premier league’ ego when it comes to youth players.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
On being an active squad member of a premier league club, having made a couple of first team appearances from the bench. That pedigree would outstrip a lot of players open to League One moves, and is not unreasonable to suggest he may be suitable.Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:10 pmOn what pedigree is he moving to league one under? Why should a team take him?
We’ve a massively over inflated ‘we’re premier league’ ego when it comes to youth players.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
he's an interesting player; sometimes he looks clumsy, but he has pace and strength.
At 22 he needs to be playing regularly.
At 22 he needs to be playing regularly.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
It was second hand info, as stated, so who knows?! I was told it was a championship right back, who was having a medical.Hedontplayforyou wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:16 pmDaniel, on a completely different topic, where is the signing that you were talking about the other week?
You get slated on here for providing info that’s passed onto you. People can’t differentiate between information that’s first hand and reliable and second info that’s not even when you clearly identify it as such.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
He’s not an active member, he’s been given a brief showcase. He’s in and around the squad, perhaps to learn, perhaps as a training aid for Mee and Tarks.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:20 pmOn being an active squad member of a premier league club, having made a couple of first team appearances from the bench. That pedigree would outstrip a lot of players open to League One moves, and is not unreasonable to suggest he may be suitable.
No one knows where his development is at, and therefore his needs. A young kid, who has moved from Italy, to the UK ask is Swedish might not need shoving out the door into another new club culture.
League one is a good standard of MENS football, it’s got seasoned pros fighting for their livelihood. Joey Barton springs to mind, he’s not good enough to take anyone’s shirt, consistently at a league one club.
Just because we’re premier league, and a young player is given ‘minutes’ doesn’t equal us being able to demand a good loan status. We’re not at that point yet with our academy.
The hype we put on youth players is ridiculous.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Well said.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:26 pmSometimes the penny just drops. Players can be put into that first team environment, and it’s a bit of a shock to the system, and they just learn. Think Chaplow, Kyle Lafferty on loan to Darlington, Jay in Scotland. Sometimes the transformation is huge from the sometimes non competitive nature of the U23 league doesn’t really stretch them enough.
Add McNeil to that too. He was dropped in because of injuries and we haven't looked back.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
absolute nonsense, one lad has just gone to Barrow who are fighting for their life at the bottom of league 2, he's hardly kicked a ball for us so why have they taken him ?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:10 pmOn what pedigree is he moving to league one under? Why should a team take him?
We’ve a massively over inflated ‘we’re premier league’ ego when it comes to youth players.
Benson was at Grimsby last season having hardly ever or never kicked a ball for us and was outstanding - they took a chance on him and now he is in and around our first team
I would suggest it's you who downplays our players rather than the rest of us saying give them a go in a lower league.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Daniel,Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:34 pmHe’s not an active member, he’s been given a brief showcase. He’s in and around the squad, perhaps to learn, perhaps as a training aid for Mee and Tarks.
No one knows where his development is at, and therefore his needs. A young kid, who has moved from Italy, to the UK ask is Swedish might not need shoving out the door into another new club culture.
League one is a good standard of MENS football, it’s got seasoned pros fighting for their livelihood. Joey Barton springs to mind, he’s not good enough to take anyone’s shirt, consistently at a league one club.
Just because we’re premier league, and a young player is given ‘minutes’ doesn’t equal us being able to demand a good loan status. We’re not at that point yet with our academy.
The hype we put on youth players is ridiculous.
Do you honestly think that Sean Dyche would put a player on the pitch if he didn't see something in that player?
Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
It doesn't help when so much of the "info" you pass on turns out to be total nonsense. The way you present the "info" is laughable.Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:29 pmIt was second hand info, as stated, so who knows?! I was told it was a championship right back, who was having a medical.
You get slated on here for providing info that’s passed onto you. People can’t differentiate between information that’s first hand and reliable and second info that’s not even when you clearly identify it as such.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Both your examples are league two, when we’re discussing league one.Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:42 pmabsolute nonsense, one lad has just gone to Barrow who are fighting for their life at the bottom of league 2, he's hardly kicked a ball for us so why have they taken him ?
Benson was at Grimsby last season having hardly ever or never kicked a ball for us and was outstanding - they took a chance on him and now he is in and around our first team
I would suggest it's you who downplays our players rather than the rest of us saying give them a go in a lower league.
I think we might have an a former employee at Barrow who might be well informed.
League two and below are staring points for loans for our U23’s.
I will downplay our youth players, they’ve more than enough pressure on them carving out a career in sport. Most of them won’t, so I think the more I, we and the club can shelter them, the better!
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Not at all, I think there must be potential in abundance for a manager such as Dyche to trust him in and around the 1st team squad and on the pitchboatshed bill wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:43 pmDaniel,
Do you honestly think that Sean Dyche would put a player on the pitch if he didn't see something in that player?
But potential, is just that. It does need to nurtured, shaped, mentally and physically.
And finally, you’ve sometimes just got to see how all that potential plays out in the biggest stage.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
I make it clear what’s mine and what’s someone else’s.
Somethings were right, some things wrong. When I get it wrong I hold my hand up.
I’m still happy to stand by most if not all my takeover info as I will Jones coming in and the Tarks/Dyche/chairman info.
Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
McNeil?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:00 pmI make it clear what’s mine and what’s someone else’s.
Somethings were right, some things wrong. When I get it wrong I hold my hand up.
I’m still happy to stand by most if not all my takeover info as I will Jones coming in and the Tarks/Dyche/chairman info.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
I wasn’t slating you by the way, merely enquiring as to what had happened. I’ve been skimming through threads lately rather than reading their entirety, life’s hectic at the moment .Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:29 pmIt was second hand info, as stated, so who knows?! I was told it was a championship right back, who was having a medical.
You get slated on here for providing info that’s passed onto you. People can’t differentiate between information that’s first hand and reliable and second info that’s not even when you clearly identify it as such.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
So Jones is still coming in then ?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:00 pmI make it clear what’s mine and what’s someone else’s.
Somethings were right, some things wrong. When I get it wrong I hold my hand up.
I’m still happy to stand by most if not all my takeover info as I will Jones coming in and the Tarks/Dyche/chairman info.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
I think so yes.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Thanks. Interesting...
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
I think (yes I think), Tarks has a big part of this deal. Once we know about Tarks we will know about Jones.
Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Starting to think some of you have been celebrating too much since Thursday. Cork on the right wing, Mumbongo is the new Ray Pointer. Mumbongo reminds me of Agyei if anyone. Muscle, pace but little else. Of all our current crop I like the look of it's Richardson. He looks most likely to have a bright future. Bright footballer is that lad.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:34 pmHe’s not an active member, he’s been given a brief showcase. He’s in and around the squad, perhaps to learn, perhaps as a training aid for Mee and Tarks.
No one knows where his development is at, and therefore his needs. A young kid, who has moved from Italy, to the UK ask is Swedish might not need shoving out the door into another new club culture.
League one is a good standard of MENS football, it’s got seasoned pros fighting for their livelihood. Joey Barton springs to mind, he’s not good enough to take anyone’s shirt, consistently at a league one club.
Just because we’re premier league, and a young player is given ‘minutes’ doesn’t equal us being able to demand a good loan status. We’re not at that point yet with our academy.
The hype we put on youth players is ridiculous.
He has been in the squad, probably for the best part of 6 months now. He may be there as a training aid for Mee and Tarkowski, but he still has to play in the training games, renowned for their intensity, and closeness to real life, he will still be playing alongside a striker he can learn off, and against 2 centre halves who will create a test, that naturally challenge him and stretch him.
League one is a good standard, nobody is arguing that, and he's had a small taste of it, and didn't look out of place. Sometimes kids come on, and look totally out of place, but he didn't. Joey Barton never played league one did he? Why have you added him into the conversation? Seems a nonsensical point to me.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
The fact that he trains week in week out with Premiership and International Footballers for one and that a Manager of Sean Dyche’s standard/judgement thinks he is good enough to be on our bench and play for the first team if needed.Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:10 pmOn what pedigree is he moving to league one under? Why should a team take him?
We’ve a massively over inflated ‘we’re premier league’ ego when it comes to youth players.
That’s not a bad start to be considered for a loan move for Managers in League One. What would he need to do in your book to obtain consideration?
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Barton gave an interview about his time at QPR and talking to thedandeclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmHe has been in the squad, probably for the best part of 6 months now. He may be there as a training aid for Mee and Tarkowski, but he still has to play in the training games, renowned for their intensity, and closeness to real life, he will still be playing alongside a striker he can learn off, and against 2 centre halves who will create a test, that naturally challenge him and stretch him.
League one is a good standard, nobody is arguing that, and he's had a small taste of it, and didn't look out of place. Sometimes kids come on, and look totally out of place, but he didn't. Joey Barton never played league one did he? Why have you added him into the conversation? Seems a nonsensical point to me.
youth team, in that he mentioned about people out performing him in training to prove they were up to taking his shirt. Training harder, longer, being more vocal, being more professional.
Mumbongo came on against a tired league one defence, his main attribute is pace, he’s going to look fast. This was no yardstick.
As others who watch more frequently have said, he’s no stand out player. Yes, like Chaplow, McNeil, he might get a chance and never look back, but it’s unlikely.
He’s not going to take anyone’s shirt in league one, maybe not even in league two.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
How do you know he's not training harder, longer, being more professional. He's definitely done something to get 2 appearances in the Burnley first team now, with Dyche stating that young players have to earn that right. Why would he be playing if he hadn't earned the right? How did he earn the right if he wasn't doing those things you state?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:48 pmBarton gave an interview about his time at QPR and talking to the
youth team, in that he mentioned about people out performing him in training to prove they were up to taking his shirt. Training harder, longer, being more vocal, being more professional.
Mumbongo came on against a tired league one defence, his main attribute is pace, he’s going to look fast. This was no yardstick.
As others who watch more frequently have said, he’s no stand out player. Yes, like Chaplow, McNeil, he might get a chance and never look back, but it’s unlikely.
He’s not going to take anyone’s shirt in league one, maybe not even in league two.
He may not get a chance at league 1 or league 2, or anywhere. However, the certainty with which you say it, points to a lack of understanding, and provides a reasonable chance of making you look pretty silly.
Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
At 22 he needs to playing against pros. I hope he gets loaned out.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
You’ve created your own argument to drive your argument.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:58 pmHow do you know he's not training harder, longer, being more professional. He's definitely done something to get 2 appearances in the Burnley first team now, with Dyche stating that young players have to earn that right. Why would he be playing if he hadn't earned the right? How did he earn the right if he wasn't doing those things you state?
He may not get a chance at league 1 or league 2, or anywhere. However, the certainty with which you say it, points to a lack of understanding, and provides a reasonable chance of making you look pretty silly.
I discussing fans at the club, suggesting a youth player in our set up with two cameos for the first team in cup games that were already over mean he has a divine right to get a loan at a league one/two club.
He doesn’t. We’ve only just risen our academy out of the duldrums, many of the clubs you want to and believe should be welcoming our kids with open arms, we were playing and winning/losing against.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
How do you account for him getting first team minutes then, given Dyche's method?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:53 pmYou’ve created your own argument to drive your argument.
I discussing fans at the club, suggesting a youth player in our set up with two cameos for the first team in cup games that were already over mean he has a divine right to get a loan at a league one/two club.
He doesn’t. We’ve only just risen our academy out of the duldrums, many of the clubs you want to and believe should be welcoming our kids with open arms, we were playing and winning/losing against.
I didn't say they should be welcoming them with open arms, I just said it wasn't far fetched to believe a player, who had been training with a premier league first team for nearly the last 6 months, and had forced his way onto the pitch a couple of times, wouldn't be that much of an unbelievable story if that player made a move to league 1. You are the one making certainty statements that " he’s not good enough to take anyone’s shirt, consistently at a league one club", further backed up with "He’s not going to take anyone’s shirt in league one, maybe not even in league two." You don't know that, you don't know what his progression curve is, and why you've pointed to the academy, when he didn't come through that academy is another strange point. People dealing in black and white on this sort of stuff, leave themselves open to making poor judgements, I've seen it numerous times. You point out yourself you don't know (I presume you're included in this comment "No one knows where his development is at, and therefore his needs." and therefore it seems silly to make such certain statements.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Mumbongo is playing for a PL2 academy, he is top scorer for Burnley U23s. He has been training with Burnley’s first team for 6 months. There will be a number of league 1 and 2 clubs interested in his services.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:06 pmHow do you account for him getting first team minutes then, given Dyche's method?
I didn't say they should be welcoming them with open arms, I just said it wasn't far fetched to believe a player, who had been training with a premier league first team for nearly the last 6 months, and had forced his way onto the pitch a couple of times, wouldn't be that much of an unbelievable story if that player made a move to league 1. You are the one making certainty statements that " he’s not good enough to take anyone’s shirt, consistently at a league one club", further backed up with "He’s not going to take anyone’s shirt in league one, maybe not even in league two." You don't know that, you don't know what his progression curve is, and why you've pointed to the academy, when he didn't come through that academy is another strange point. People dealing in black and white on this sort of stuff, leave themselves open to making poor judgements, I've seen it numerous times. You point out yourself you don't know (I presume you're included in this comment "No one knows where his development is at, and therefore his needs." and therefore it seems silly to make such certain statements.
Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
We've had U23 players out on loan at Sunderland and Fleetwood in League 1.Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:53 pmBoth your examples are league two, when we’re discussing league one.
I think we might have an a former employee at Barrow who might be well informed.
League two and below are staring points for loans for our U23’s.
I will downplay our youth players, they’ve more than enough pressure on them carving out a career in sport. Most of them won’t, so I think the more I, we and the club can shelter them, the better!
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Certainly a nice way of saying, you're doolally.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
How it started......Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:48 pmBarton gave an interview about his time at QPR and talking to the
youth team, in that he mentioned about people out performing him in training to prove they were up to taking his shirt. Training harder, longer, being more vocal, being more professional.
Mumbongo came on against a tired league one defence, his main attribute is pace, he’s going to look fast. This was no yardstick.
As others who watch more frequently have said, he’s no stand out player. Yes, like Chaplow, McNeil, he might get a chance and never look back, but it’s unlikely.
He’s not going to take anyone’s shirt in league one, maybe not even in league two.
How it finished.....
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Joel Mumbongo
I noted an interesting point from deadline day.
Joel was apparently wanted by a host of championship clubs on loan. Correct me if I am wrong but I can’t remember an academy player going to the championship on loan before. He must be very highly regarded in the club and externally.
Joel was apparently wanted by a host of championship clubs on loan. Correct me if I am wrong but I can’t remember an academy player going to the championship on loan before. He must be very highly regarded in the club and externally.
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Re: Joel Mumbongo
He's got the requisite physique.
That's far from being everything necessary but it brings with it a lot of extra potential.
It'll be interesting to see how he develops. Fingers crossed he keeps progressing.
That's far from being everything necessary but it brings with it a lot of extra potential.
It'll be interesting to see how he develops. Fingers crossed he keeps progressing.
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Re: Joel Mumbongo
SD praised him at the Press Conference today. I wonder if injuries to Wood and Barnes, Jayrod perhaps not at full fitness, and bearing in mind we play Brighton at the weekend, he might get a start tomorrow ?
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Re: Joel Mumbongo
I think he has the potential if he learns to maximise on his apparent strengths of power and pace
Another Akinbiyi? Or if he can put the ball in the net an upgrade
Another Akinbiyi? Or if he can put the ball in the net an upgrade
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Re: Joel Mumbongo
Would love to see him make the grade
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Re: Joel Mumbongo
According to one erstwhile poster..... he’d be unlikely to take anybody’s shirt in league 2.
Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
It’ll be really interesting to see how he develops.
I’ve only seen his two fleeting appearances but in those there were flashes of raw quality interspersed with the sort of inexperience that you might see from someone playing the game for the first time.
There’s definitely some potential in there, alongside his pace and strength. If we can smooth the very rough edges and he develops well, we might just have a player on our hands.
He’s a hell of a long way to go, which would be explained by him coming late to the game (I think I’m correct in saying that), which is why we should be giving him time and certainly not getting on his back if he doesn’t always perform when given chances.
I’ve only seen his two fleeting appearances but in those there were flashes of raw quality interspersed with the sort of inexperience that you might see from someone playing the game for the first time.
There’s definitely some potential in there, alongside his pace and strength. If we can smooth the very rough edges and he develops well, we might just have a player on our hands.
He’s a hell of a long way to go, which would be explained by him coming late to the game (I think I’m correct in saying that), which is why we should be giving him time and certainly not getting on his back if he doesn’t always perform when given chances.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
I really really do hope that I'm wrong (both for Joel and the club) but as I posted earlier in the thread - I must say that from seeing him quite a few times in the U23's I was more than surprised to see him anywhere near the 1st team. Certainly didn't see enough from him to think that he would/could make that step up.
PS - C'mon lad, if you do get the chance, prove me wrong!
PS - C'mon lad, if you do get the chance, prove me wrong!
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Re: Joel Mumbongo
I know he was miles offside but I was quite surprised how composed he was when he was through on goal on Sunday. Even though he missed anyway I really was expecting him to just try and leather it. Sign of a cool head?Down_Rover wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:00 pmI think he has the potential if he learns to maximise on his apparent strengths of power and pace
Another Akinbiyi? Or if he can put the ball in the net an upgrade
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
I had similar thoughts having watched him in the U23s.Leisure wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:17 pmI really really do hope that I'm wrong (both for Joel and the club) but as I posted earlier in the thread - I must say that from seeing him quite a few times in the U23's I was more than surprised to see him anywhere near the 1st team. Certainly didn't see enough from him to think that he would/could make that step up.
PS - C'mon lad, if you do get the chance, prove me wrong!
but we don't see him in training, he must be doing the right things.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:48 pmBarton gave an interview about his time at QPR and talking to the
youth team, in that he mentioned about people out performing him in training to prove they were up to taking his shirt. Training harder, longer, being more vocal, being more professional.
Mumbongo came on against a tired league one defence, his main attribute is pace, he’s going to look fast. This was no yardstick.
As others who watch more frequently have said, he’s no stand out player. Yes, like Chaplow, McNeil, he might get a chance and never look back, but it’s unlikely.
He’s not going to take anyone’s shirt in league one, maybe not even in league two.
I agree if anything he looks out of place and clumsy - hope I am proved wrong
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
I really hope Mumbongo makes it, and from little I've seen, he looks promising. I would also Say that Dan Agyei got a few short run outs at Prem league level at a slightly younger age, as we can see from his career (so far), has ended up being miles off being good enough for Burnley's level. So it really can go either way.
Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Needs to go and play regular football somewhere, he's never going to see enough action with us to improve.
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Re: Young Clarets Mumbongo
Well, if we have forwards, specifically target-men, out injured he may be needed with the PL squad.
Yes, it's a massive leap, but would be a great opportunity for him to assert himself.