“A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

[martin_p]

Dear supporters,

A breakaway Super League should never have happened, but this is about much more than club self-interest and is an example of how the governance of football in this country and throughout Europe needs to be reformed.

The six Premier League clubs taking this step have turned their back on our moral duty as custodians of the game to protect English football and, the spirit of the sport, at all costs.

Weak governance has led us to this point.

Therefore, today I am calling on Boris Johnson and Oliver Dowden to follow their welcome intervention and now appoint an independent regulator to protect English football with legislation.

As a former financier, I understand the commercial considerations for these clubs and can appreciate their frustration at being the largest revenue drivers for the UEFA Champions League, without receiving the same levels of influence and reward.

However, this is a move which does not treat fans or the game’s history with the respect it deserves and is not the solution.

We need to ensure that football is protected. The game is bigger than all of us, and its future cannot be compromised by self-interest.

The contempt the proposals have received was inevitable.

It is truly a shame that it has come to this. We are the greatest league in the world and we can do more to bring people together and set the path forward for all and not just the few.

We have a responsibility to all that have come before us and all those who will follow in the wider game.

While we too at Burnley have ambitious plans to grow the club’s revenues, those plans have always been on the back of performance, both on and off the pitch, and not artificial protectionism.

As my business partners and I have now been working and living in Burnley for several months and are in the process of moving permanently to the area, I would greatly encourage my fellow chairmen to walk the streets around their local communities and get to know them personally, rather than creating more distance between themselves and fans.

This is also why I invite No10, the Government and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport to now legislate.

Ultimately, we need a strong regulator in the style of OFTEL or OFCOM to protect and build the interests of English football.

It’s time to do things differently!

Over the coming days, I will be working hard alongside my fellow club owners and governing bodies to fight these proposals and find a solution to improved football governance in this country.

I welcome initial noises coming from the UK Government and encourage them to provide strong leadership on these proposals, given their seismic impact on the UK’s cultural landscape.

Yours, in Football

Alan Pace

[CleggHall]

An excellent statement by new chairman Pace, let’s hope the new owners deliver on their promises despite leveraging the buyout with £80m of club debt. We shall see!

[Dyched]

The part a don’t like about all this is how local fans want to be treated as some kind of “special fan” over foreign. Foreign fans interested in football have made our club grow far beyond what any local interest in us or English football could. To just dismiss their wants feels a bit wrong.

I’m very against it. But we can’t keep wanting to use foreign fans to grow our clubs/leagues then dismiss them as nothing because they weren’t there in days gone by.

There was a thread a few weeks back about how we can grow the club in The States, to make us better, richer and in a better position to challenge. We can’t now have the opinion that foreign fans mean nothing and are nothing.

[martin_p]

The part a don’t like about all this is how local fans want to be treated as some kind of “special fan” over foreign. Foreign fans interested in football have made our club grow far beyond what any local interest in us or English football could. To just dismiss their wants feels a bit wrong.

I’m very against it. But we can’t keep wanting to use foreign fans to grow our clubs/leagues then dismiss them as nothing because they weren’t there in days gone by.

There was a thread a few weeks back about how we can grow the club in The States, to make us better, richer and in a better position to challenge. We can’t now have the opinion that foreign fans mean nothing and are nothing.

And all the 'local fans' have done is ensure the club still exists.

[jedi_master]

Pep seemed more annoyed with UEFA than the idea.

[DCWat]

Pep seemed more annoyed with UEFA than the idea.

I quite like Guadiola, though I’m not really surprised if that’s the line he’s taken. At the end of the day, as brilliant as he has been, he operates and wants to operate with budgets most others can only dream of.

[CleggHall]

“Local meat for local people” as the League of Gentlemen would say!

[Elizabeth]

The part a don’t like about all this is how local fans want to be treated as some kind of “special fan” over foreign. Foreign fans interested in football have made our club grow far beyond what any local interest in us or English football could. To just dismiss their wants feels a bit wrong.

I’m very against it. But we can’t keep wanting to use foreign fans to grow our clubs/leagues then dismiss them as nothing because they weren’t there in days gone by.

There was a thread a few weeks back about how we can grow the club in The States, to make us better, richer and in a better position to challenge. We can’t now have the opinion that foreign fans mean nothing and are nothing.

In life you look after your own and then others . It is possible to do both but history is littered with failures who failed to do the most important of these things

[Zlatan]

Pep seemed more annoyed with UEFA than the idea.

Pep is a puppet, and he can jog the f#ck on

[Elizabeth]

Pep is a puppet, and he can jog the f#ck on

There will be a future position for a new Chairman of the European Super League

[Grumps]

Pep is a puppet, and he can jog the f#ck on

He's been more outspoken than any other manager

City have cut his press conference off before all questions had been asked

[LS7]

This is probably a controversial opinion and I am not trying to inflame anything but there is such an inevitability about the ESL and its ultimate global construct. Inter Miami v Flamenco etc being a regular event. All games big games between huge brands. Long term investment based on guaranteed participation. I am not completely against it because of the inevitability. It isn’t yet end of football. Kids would love it. Ultimately new franchises would be invited to join, Everton etc. The domestic leagues would be more competitive. There is a sense of destiny about it and I am not completely against it.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I’m seeing a lot of statements on social media from the ‘other 14’, condemning this ESL nonsense.

Wolves have updated their Twitter bio, poking fun that they were PL Champions when they finished 7th.

Leeds were calling Liverpool ‘Merseyside Reds’ last night.

And yet from us, the silence is deafening.

I tend not to be too critical of the club. We get a helluva lot more right than wrong. But, there really needs to be some engagement from the club to the fans, when disenchantment and disconnection with football in general is already as high as it is.

Made perfect sense to release a statement once the meeting with the 14 chairman of the other clubs had ended earlier today.

[Elizabeth]

Liked this one ‘ Please, please play booing sounds from the crowd the next time the Big 6 play’

[Chester Perry]

I have voiced reservations about a government appointed regulator for football a number of times, and continue to acknowledge the failings of the football authorities.

I feel the club (and by extension the Premier League, because I suspect this is a conclusion the 14 have come to out of desperation - which is never a good strategy) are inviting further long lasting complications into their lives that they may regret all too quickly

[Commy]

They released the statement before everything was sorted so where are they going to get the rest from?

After the response, other clubs might not be so eager to join so they could be left with the also rans instead of 'the elite.'

[ClaretTony]

Statement this afternoon from the Premier League


The Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.

The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.

The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.

The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.

The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.

The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.

[Elizabeth]

Looks like they had to get their intent known before Monday . Half baked or running with 12?
Who knows but great entertainment unless you are a fan of our self appointed Big 6

[NottsClaret]

I can only see a UEFA capitulation when they end up more or less offering them the same deal in the champs league

100% what is going to happen. It's like Groundhog Day this. How many times have we seen this 'Super League' idea mooted, then pulled back from.. then a tweaked format of the Champions League and a change to income redistribution.

Not sure any of these clubs want to leave, they're just using the same old bargaining chip - but as they've used it so many times, they've had to try and look like they really mean it this time.

[Elizabeth]

This is probably a controversial opinion and I am not trying to inflame anything but there is such an inevitability about the ESL and its ultimate global construct. Inter Miami v Flamenco etc being a regular event. All games big games between huge brands. Long term investment based on guaranteed participation. I am not completely against it because of the inevitability. It isn’t yet end of football. Kids would love it. Ultimately new franchises would be invited to join, Everton etc. The domestic leagues would be more competitive. There is a sense of destiny about it and I am not completely against it.

Haven’t seen many express this line but fair enough. One question only , in this quest for the ultimate global construction should these 6 Premier League sides be sacrificed by being expelled from their national league as has been proposed by many

[DCWat]

Jordan Henderson has called a meeting of PL club captains, according to a newsflash that’s just popped up on my phone. The output from that could be very interesting.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Having a little think and this could make creation of next seasons fixtures interesting, having to structure it around yet another competition, if the 6 stay in the PL.

Are they also going to withdraw from our national Cup competitions as many of these games can be, and are, played in midweek?

Is the ESL going to be played at their normal grounds or are they going to take it on tour?
One way to generate interest and finances is by making it accessible to fans around the world by going on tour with it, but then that interferes with any other competitions etc.

So much to consider.

[Lowbankclaret]

Interesting stuff coming out on Sky.
The 14 don’t want the 6 to leave the PL.

However if they stay they are not prepared to work with several of the execs of the 6 and they would not be welcome back.

[Zlatan]

Haven’t seen many express this line but fair enough. One question only , in this quest for the ultimate global construction should these 6 Premier League sides be sacrificed by being expelled from their national league as has been proposed by many

IMO - yes, send them packing.

The fundamental part of it for me is that the closed shop scenario creates a different sport to what we all grew up knowing and having the love/hate relationship with.

Its a different sport when there's no threat of relegation or chance of promotion, many games will become dead rubbers for those "founder" members who cant be kicked out, but those fighting to stay in will be affected.

If they want an entertainment spectacle like the American Superbowl where the global audience they speak of is only interested in the final (lets be honest, most people dont care about all the playoffs to get there do they - at least not on a global level); and then at this final they get to auction off the half time entertainment and change the sport to be 3 lots of 20 minute halves (purposefully not said thirds) to keep the young ones interested it is clearly a different sport - it will be NFL but with Soccer instead of pansy rugby players.

So yes, kick them out because what they propose is not Association Football, which is the game we all love (well most of us anyway)

[Lowbankclaret]

BA8B8A12-89FE-415D-8218-9B579F9F26B0.jpeg (28.08 KiB) Viewed 2004 times

[Lowbankclaret]

Apparently there is a rule that teams have to inform the PL by letter before joining any tournament outside of the current ones.
It appears they feel this rule can be used to hold teams to account.

[Chester Perry]

Apparently there is a rule that teams have to inform the PL by letter before joining any tournament outside of the current ones.
It appears they feel this rule can be used to hold teams to account.

FIFA and UEFA and I presume the leagues were sent pre-emptive letters of the start of legal proceeding's yesterday aimed at preventing presumptive penalising actions from these bodies. The SLco12 have entered into this very much prepared after the experience of Project Big Picture as I posted earlier

[Zlatan]

Pep is a puppet, and he can jog the f#ck on

IMO - yes, send them packing.

The fundamental part of it for me is that the closed shop scenario creates a different sport to what we all grew up knowing and having the love/hate relationship with.

Its a different sport when there's no threat of relegation or chance of promotion, many games will become dead rubbers for those "founder" members who cant be kicked out, but those fighting to stay in will be affected.

If they want an entertainment spectacle like the American Superbowl where the global audience they speak of is only interested in the final (lets be honest, most people dont care about all the playoffs to get there do they - at least not on a global level); and then at this final they get to auction off the half time entertainment and change the sport to be 3 lots of 20 minute halves (purposefully not said thirds) to keep the young ones interested it is clearly a different sport - it will be NFL but with Soccer instead of pansy rugby players.

So yes, kick them out because what they propose is not Association Football, which is the game we all love (well most of us anyway)

I've just heard the Pep interview and he also refers to it as a different sport - I take it back, he's not a puppet like I first stated and I think he's referring to what I tried to say above.

[Chester Perry]

I've just heard the Pep interview and he also refers to it as a different sport - I take it back, he's not a puppet like I first stated and I think he's referring to what I tried to say above.

always good to acknowledge a mistake quickly, makes it so much easier to move on, well done Zlatan

[gandhisflipflop]

Interesting stuff coming out on Sky.
The 14 don’t want the 6 to leave the PL.

However if they stay they are not prepared to work with several of the execs of the 6 and they would not be welcome back.

So where does that leave the 6 clubs. I presume that they mean they would not welcome back the owners, who won't walk away from their clubs. They have also said whatever happens, the PL needs a total reset - what does that even mean?

[Chester Perry]

So where does that leave the 6 clubs. I presume that they mean they would not welcome back the owners, who won't walk away from their clubs. They have also said whatever happens, the PL needs a total reset - what does that even mean?

It is probably specifically directed at Ed Woodward and Tom Werner

[Colburn_Claret]

My son just asked me, what happens to their academies if they fly solo?
It's a good question, I can't see the youths being entertained by the prem or FA, if the parent clubs have quit.
So many unanswered questions. It just grows as it goes.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Bayern Munich have spoken out against it.

[gandhisflipflop]

It is probably specifically directed at Ed Woodward and Tom Werner

Even so, you can't imagine them stepping away from their roles. The likes of Joel Glazer has put his name on the commitment to the the ESL, so how would it be right to scapegoat a few individuals?

[Lowbankclaret]

FIFA and UEFA and I presume the leagues were sent pre-emptive letters of the start of legal proceeding's yesterday aimed at preventing presumptive penalising actions from these bodies. The SLco12 have entered into this very much prepared after the experience of Project Big Picture as I posted earlier

I agree, I have said before on this thread they will have planned for this. I am sure they will have done pre planning for each situation that they thought could occur. The people who own these clubs are used to getting their way and will front it out I think for now.

It seems obvious that these 6 clubs will not compete in the league and FA cup, plus not the champions league or Europa. They don’t get enough revenue from them and they want to play less games not more.

It’s going to be an interesting couple of weeks.

[Chester Perry]

Bayern Munich have spoken out against it.

and are now the figure heads at the ECA

[Chester Perry]

I agree, I have said before on this thread they will have planned for this. I am sure they will have done pre planning for each situation that they thought could occur. The people who own these clubs are used to getting their way and will front it out I think for now.

It seems obvious that these 6 clubs will not compete in the league and FA cup, plus not the champions league or Europa. They don’t get enough revenue from them and they want to play less games not more.

It’s going to be an interesting couple of weeks.

I suspect the battle will rage for at least a year with all competitions proceeding in their current format, whatever the final outcome I only see the big clubs winning financially in Europe

[Lowbankclaret]

So where does that leave the 6 clubs. I presume that they mean they would not welcome back the owners, who won't walk away from their clubs. They have also said whatever happens, the PL needs a total reset - what does that even mean?

They did say it needs a reset, I see that as attempting to get the 6 back onside and maybe restructure the cash payouts. That would not be good for clubs like us.

[AshevilleNCClaret]

The irony is that the Super League really isn't about forming a competitive league top to bottom, its really about keeping the elite clubs at the top. Everyone but the top 4 (Man City, Man U, Real Madrid, and Barca ) are going to be on playing for 5th place...

I doubt there would be equal revenue sharing on TV rights.
I doubt there would be any salary cap put in place.

There are already 2 good examples of Super leagues: the NBA and NFL, and they only work because of competitive balance.

Eventually, the luster of the league is going to lose its shine... who is going to want to turn into a Wednesday Super League relegation battle match between Arsenal and Inter Milan?

[Chester Perry]

Even so, you can't imagine them stepping away from their roles. The likes of Joel Glazer has put his name on the commitment to the the ESL, so how would it be right to scapegoat a few individuals?

Those are the individuals that have been lying in Premier League meetings, ECA ,meetings and UEFA meetings - Woodward and Werner signed the Premier League statement that agreed to the binning of Project Big Picture and were then complicit in Super League, which still requires some of the Project Big Picture demands

[Chester Perry]

The irony is that the Super League really isn't about forming a competitive league top to bottom, its really about keeping the elite clubs at the top. Everyone but the top 4 (Man City, Man U, Real Madrid, and Barca ) are going to be on playing for 5th place...

I doubt there would be equal revenue sharing on TV rights.
I doubt there would be any salary cap put in place.

There are already 2 good examples of Super leagues: the NBA and NFL, and they only work because of competitive balance.

Eventually, the luster of the league is going to lose its shine... who is going to want to turn into a Wednesday Super League relegation battle match between Arsenal and Inter Milan?

The inequalities are built into the distributions of revenue - it is not equal - and there is provision for clubs to own the global distribution rights for a certain number of their games

[Lowbankclaret]

I suspect the battle will rage for at least a year with all competitions proceeding in their current format, whatever the final outcome I only see the big clubs winning financially in Europe

Would that not be difficult if they are starting this new comp in August. I don’t think they will want to be delaying that as I am sure they will have had talks with advertisers and TV companies. I see this getting very ugly unfortunately.

[Lowbankclaret]

The irony is that the Super League really isn't about forming a competitive league top to bottom, its really about keeping the elite clubs at the top. Everyone but the top 4 (Man City, Man U, Real Madrid, and Barca ) are going to be on playing for 5th place...

I doubt there would be equal revenue sharing on TV rights.
I doubt there would be any salary cap put in place.

There are already 2 good examples of Super leagues: the NBA and NFL, and they only work because of competitive balance.

Eventually, the luster of the league is going to lose its shine... who is going to want to turn into a Wednesday Super League relegation battle match between Arsenal and Inter Milan?

But it would not be a relegation battle, or am I wrong, it would be a game to see who finishes bottom but still gets massive payments. Ian King on Sky appears to have seen proposals that says the winning club would get 50% more than the bottom club.

[Spijed]

Transfer News Live
@DeadlineDayLive
2h
Chelsea and Manchester City are having doubts about joining the Super League.
Discussions took place today at the UEFA congress on whether it was possible for both clubs to back down.
(Source: The Guardian)


Is it any surprise Man City might be having doubts, considering it might weaken their position in football?
They would only do this to keep themselves at the top of the Prem.

[Chester Perry]

Would that not be difficult if they are starting this new comp in August. I don’t think they will want to be delaying that as I am sure they will have had talks with advertisers and TV companies. I see this getting very ugly unfortunately.

It is a stated desire and nothing much more - what it does is focus attention and generate fear and panic, which is so much easier to manipulate than rationality. If you actually look at the legal hurdles involved it was never going to happen this year unless someone capitulates

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20891&start=6935

[martin_p]

Rumours that Jordna Henderson has called a meeting of Premier League captains tomorrow. This is probably the best chance to crush this quickly.

[tiger76]

Bayern Munich have spoken out against it.

They certainly have statement in full below.

Bayern Munich 'say no' to the ESL

Bayern Munich, who are the current holders of the Uefa Champions League, have released the following statement in the last hour:

FC Bayern Munich takes a closed position on the Super League. President Herbert Hainer says: “Our members and fans reject a Super League. It is our wish as FC Bayern and our goal that the European clubs live this wonderful and emotional Champions League competition and develop it together with UEFA. FC Bayern says no to the Super League. "

The chairman of the board Karl-Heinz Rummenigge confirms: “On behalf of the board I can expressly state that FC Bayern does not take part in the Super League. FC Bayern stands in solidarity with the Bundesliga. It was and is always a great pleasure for us to be able to play as the German representative in the Champions League. We all still fondly remember our Champions League victory in Lisbon in 2020, such a happy moment is never forgotten. For FC Bayern, the Champions League is the best club competition in the world."

I think it's a tad embarrassing that the current CL holders aren't on board, and if they and PSG aren't involved along with many others, how can it claim to be a true ESL. Arsenal and Spurs for goodness sake, who boost a grand total of zero EC/CL wins between them, so hardly 2 powerhouses in the European game are they.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They certainly have statement in full below.

Bayern Munich 'say no' to the ESL

Bayern Munich, who are the current holders of the Uefa Champions League, have released the following statement in the last hour:

FC Bayern Munich takes a closed position on the Super League. President Herbert Hainer says: “Our members and fans reject a Super League. It is our wish as FC Bayern and our goal that the European clubs live this wonderful and emotional Champions League competition and develop it together with UEFA. FC Bayern says no to the Super League. "

The chairman of the board Karl-Heinz Rummenigge confirms: “On behalf of the board I can expressly state that FC Bayern does not take part in the Super League. FC Bayern stands in solidarity with the Bundesliga. It was and is always a great pleasure for us to be able to play as the German representative in the Champions League. We all still fondly remember our Champions League victory in Lisbon in 2020, such a happy moment is never forgotten. For FC Bayern, the Champions League is the best club competition in the world."

I think it's a tad embarrassing that the current CL holders aren't on board, and if they and PSG aren't involved along with many others, how can it claim to be a true ESL. Arsenal and Spurs for goodness sake, who boost a grand total of zero EC/CL wins between them, so hardly 2 powerhouses in the European game are they.

Also helps dispel the claims that its about foreign ownership when PSG aren't interested in getting on board, yet 3 Spanish/fan owned clubs are.

[Dyched]

Bayern Munich don’t need it, it’s as simple as that. Look at them, why would they agree to it? It wouldn’t make any sense. Same for PSG and I’d expect Manchester City to pull out of it of the current 12 clubs.

[NewClaret]

net debt is the result of gross debt offset by cash in hand and creditors. Both the Spanish giants have large salary payments every six months - players tend to get only 20%-30% of they wages monthly and lump sums for the rest every six months, naturally this is timed to fall after major TV and sponsor payments, so for a while the accounts are cash rich. Both clubs have long been known to declare their accounts at the cash rich moments. The money disappears within a week or so.

There has also been additional borrowings taken out since the accounts were published

Great, thanks CP.