ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
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ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
It's not so much a considered view, more me spewing out my thoughts after a busy and emotional two days. Now let us all hope we can move forward in a positive way from this.
See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/the-esl-it-came-and-went
See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/the-esl-it-came-and-went
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Excellent article. This is the part that echoes my feelings and the part that I feel is the most important:
‘They are not just going to march back into Premier League shareholder meetings and play the big I am any longer because they’ve blown it with the other clubs. They are very much losers now and that should be music to the ears of everyone with a genuine interest in English football at all levels.’
The rest can now feel more empowered to stand up to them in the knowledge that this lot are no longer in a position to bully and have it all their own way.
‘They are not just going to march back into Premier League shareholder meetings and play the big I am any longer because they’ve blown it with the other clubs. They are very much losers now and that should be music to the ears of everyone with a genuine interest in English football at all levels.’
The rest can now feel more empowered to stand up to them in the knowledge that this lot are no longer in a position to bully and have it all their own way.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
And that's exactly how it has to be now. They've bullied for too long and they've always had some clubs at their beck and call to support them. They've lost that support now from what I'm told. There were 14 angry clubs at the meeting yesterday. Hopefully they will no longer be able to force change to suit themselves.hoskinsgoalatswansea wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:53 pmExcellent article. This is the part that echoes my feelings and the part that I feel is the most important:
‘They are not just going to march back into Premier League shareholder meetings and play the big I am any longer because they’ve blown it with the other clubs. They are very much losers now and that should be music to the ears of everyone with a genuine interest in English football at all levels.’
The rest can now feel more empowered to stand up to them in the knowledge that this lot are no longer in a position to bully and have it all their own way.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Promising news.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:58 pmAnd that's exactly how it has to be now. They've bullied for too long and they've always had some clubs at their beck and call to support them. They've lost that support now from what I'm told. There were 14 angry clubs at the meeting yesterday. Hopefully they will no longer be able to force change to suit themselves.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Enjoyed the read ... very good
Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
I don't think it's a question of owners. Under previous ownership four of these six clubs plus Everton moved for the formation of The Premier League because they wanted a bigger share of the spoils then other clubs. And they got it partly by the force of their financial power and also presumably because other clubs thought they could get a share of money too. The new owners have just tried to do the same but with a closed shop version. I can't believe this ambition will stop with new owners or even fan owners (rather like the territorial ambitions of the Tsar's Russia, The Soviet Union and now Russia again - they're the same despite different management!).
Clubs like us still want the money that these big six clubs attract. Burnley are now financed on that basis as presumably are the other Prem clubs. We don't attract it ourselves. For this reason we will have to accommodate them whether we like it or not. If we attack the owners this will surely encourage them even more to develop outside the current football world, and perhaps form a Premier League Mark 2 more to their liking, or have another go at an ESL without the support of any of the current football authorities. If the funding is right they won't worry too much about what fans think.
Clubs like us still want the money that these big six clubs attract. Burnley are now financed on that basis as presumably are the other Prem clubs. We don't attract it ourselves. For this reason we will have to accommodate them whether we like it or not. If we attack the owners this will surely encourage them even more to develop outside the current football world, and perhaps form a Premier League Mark 2 more to their liking, or have another go at an ESL without the support of any of the current football authorities. If the funding is right they won't worry too much about what fans think.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Your facts are correct but I can't agree with your conclusions, Hipper.
How much money would the Despicable Six rake in if they only had each other to play each week? It would go stale quicker than a French loaf in the sunshine. Their well would run dry very, very quickly.
They'd be pariahs. We'd still be part of a league system comprosing 86 clubs within a coherent national system that retained sporting integrity and ensuing excitement.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
...............and would have loads less money.Rowls wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:55 pmYour facts are correct but I can't agree with your conclusions, Hipper.
How much money would the Despicable Six rake in if they only had each other to play each week? It would go stale quicker than a French loaf in the sunshine. Their well would run dry very, very quickly.
They'd be pariahs. We'd still be part of a league system comprising 86 clubs within a coherent national system that retained sporting integrity and ensuing excitement.
Most Premier League clubs, and many Championship ones, are currently financed based on these monies. It will lead to an ITV Digital situation surely.
If 'The Six' couldn't play in the UK they'd be forced to work again with the other European clubs for an ESL. In fact it would seem more financially viable then the demised proposed set up (assuming the finances for the ESL were realistic).
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Good read, CT.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
In the past I suspect these "big" clubs have wielded more than their fair share of power in the PL because there has always been the tacit threat that they could simply walk away and do far better elsewhere. For example they don't even like the 1 club 1 vote principle among the 20 members and have always wanted their vote to count for more. Now that threat has between blown out of the water in totally the most embarrassing fashion and as others have said, the remaining clubs have absolutely nothing to fear and must not allow those billy big boll**s to manipulate the rules and the governance for their own ends. If they don't like it they can always walk away. Oh, hang on.....
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
We'd have substantially more money than the D6 if they went ahead with it.Hipper wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:20 pm...............and would have loads less money.
Most Premier League clubs, and many Championship ones, are currently financed based on these monies. It will lead to an ITV Digital situation surely.
If 'The Six' couldn't play in the UK they'd be forced to work again with the other European clubs for an ESL. In fact it would seem more financially viable then the demised proposed set up (assuming the finances for the ESL were realistic).
Nobody but nobody would watch the closed competition. It would die.
The Championship & remaining PL would increase in value.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
They’ve had so much control and much of that has been lost with their recent antics. They are being removed from all the key PL working groups for starters while they are going from bad to worse with pathetic, insincere apologies to their fans who are not falling for it.Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:48 pmIn the past I suspect these "big" clubs have wielded more than their fair share of power in the PL because there has always been the tacit threat that they could simply walk away and do far better elsewhere. For example they don't even like the 1 club 1 vote principle among the 20 members and have always wanted their vote to count for more. Now that threat has between blown out of the water in totally the most embarrassing fashion and as others have said, the remaining clubs have absolutely nothing to fear and must not allow those billy big boll**s to manipulate the rules and the governance for their own ends. If they don't like it they can always walk away. Oh, hang on.....
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Great article that, absolutely on the money (pardon the reference)
Time will tell how much they have gained thru the back door whilst everyone on the planet was staring at the main show...
I'd love nothing more than for them to know their place now and stay in it... but I have a feeling in a year or two it will all be forgotten and they will be back to trying to dominate the game, on and off the field.
Time will tell how much they have gained thru the back door whilst everyone on the planet was staring at the main show...
I'd love nothing more than for them to know their place now and stay in it... but I have a feeling in a year or two it will all be forgotten and they will be back to trying to dominate the game, on and off the field.
Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Great read Tony.
Let's hope the greedy 6 have pi$$ed on their chips.
Let's hope the greedy 6 have pi$$ed on their chips.
Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Thanks Tony, your own views echo my own. The establishment of a closed-shop super league for the football 'elites' has been proposed several times before down the decades, our own former chairman Bob Lord talked about it in the Sixties shortly after the abolishment of the players maximum wage. Hopefully this bad idea has again died another death and won't re-surface again until another group of power-crazed, money-centred owners vomits up the idea again.
UTC
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Which shows why steps have to be put in place to prevent it
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
I think you're bang on Hipper. What you've said gets to the heart of the situation and sighs of relief, I fear, are somewhat premature. The question I would ask is how the organisers could have got it so wrong with their strategy, if indeed they did. The timing of the announcement is strange and the launching of a 20 team ESL with only 12 teams signed up doesn't make much sense unless this was a kite flying exercise to test the waters. Why else would they announce it at this time of the season. Surely it would make much more sense to have waited until after the Euros when domestic leagues would be in Summer break and people off their guard. Also with only 12 clubs the ESL as it stood was hardly viable. Maybe the owners of these clubs are incompetent but I wouldn't think so. Was it an effort to force Uefa into further concessions? We'll have to wait and see. Watch out for a restructured CL and a ESL in embryo. What the greedy owners want is the best of both worlds. To continue playing in their domestic competitions and have a ESL running alongside with a closed shop (or close enough to it) so they can hoover up the cash. This was only the opening salvo. They haven't gone away you know.Hipper wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:42 pmI don't think it's a question of owners. Under previous ownership four of these six clubs plus Everton moved for the formation of The Premier League because they wanted a bigger share of the spoils then other clubs. And they got it partly by the force of their financial power and also presumably because other clubs thought they could get a share of money too. The new owners have just tried to do the same but with a closed shop version. I can't believe this ambition will stop with new owners or even fan owners (rather like the territorial ambitions of the Tsar's Russia, The Soviet Union and now Russia again - they're the same despite different management!).
Clubs like us still want the money that these big six clubs attract. Burnley are now financed on that basis as presumably are the other Prem clubs. We don't attract it ourselves. For this reason we will have to accommodate them whether we like it or not. If we attack the owners this will surely encourage them even more to develop outside the current football world, and perhaps form a Premier League Mark 2 more to their liking, or have another go at an ESL without the support of any of the current football authorities. If the funding is right they won't worry too much about what fans think.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
It came and it went, buts its not gone... certainly not gone. Don't be so naiive. These people who run these clubs are not stupid, they are brilliant at manipulation, this is all part of real plan to bring a Franchise League in to fruition... but it'll be in about 5 years time.
Mark my words, this isn't over and the fans haven't won, the outrage and the 'victory' is just part of the game plan. Do you honestly think these clubs really dropped the plans out after just two days? They don't give up that easy.... please.
These clubs concocted this disgraceful idea so the REAL IDEA doesn't seem as bad when its a 're-hashed' model. These people are ruthless, they don't listen to fan power, Gary Neville or political opinion. They know most fans will be eventually won-over and they know there's the market for new supporters on a global scale... and do you think Sky Sports have had nothing to do with this? Which broadcasters have these big clubs been speaking to then? Come on!
There WILL be a new restructured European League, but this time with with FIFA / UEFA backing with a more convenient structured system to make it supposedly inclusive... and fans will go with it - because the opinion will be 'that it wasn't as bad as what the clubs were initially signing up to'. So it won't be challenged as much because it's the 'better option'.
Companies like Facebook do this all the time, release OUTRAGEOUS plans that causes concern about privacy and so on, create a media storm, let the dust settle, and then people accept the idea over time and then they eventually release a scaled-back version of the application with no nobody really caring.
Mark my words, this isn't over and the fans haven't won, the outrage and the 'victory' is just part of the game plan. Do you honestly think these clubs really dropped the plans out after just two days? They don't give up that easy.... please.
These clubs concocted this disgraceful idea so the REAL IDEA doesn't seem as bad when its a 're-hashed' model. These people are ruthless, they don't listen to fan power, Gary Neville or political opinion. They know most fans will be eventually won-over and they know there's the market for new supporters on a global scale... and do you think Sky Sports have had nothing to do with this? Which broadcasters have these big clubs been speaking to then? Come on!
There WILL be a new restructured European League, but this time with with FIFA / UEFA backing with a more convenient structured system to make it supposedly inclusive... and fans will go with it - because the opinion will be 'that it wasn't as bad as what the clubs were initially signing up to'. So it won't be challenged as much because it's the 'better option'.
Companies like Facebook do this all the time, release OUTRAGEOUS plans that causes concern about privacy and so on, create a media storm, let the dust settle, and then people accept the idea over time and then they eventually release a scaled-back version of the application with no nobody really caring.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Correct. This is just the end of the beginning.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Really well written piece! Thank you. What a truly crackers few days.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
We already know thatclaptrappers_union wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:51 pmThere WILL be a new restructured European League, but this time with with FIFA / UEFA backing
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
ExactlyRalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:05 pmThey ARE pariahs. This attempted Coup will not be forgotten, and neither should it be.
They came, they tried, they ****** it up! Now, they should suffer the censure of the majority
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
I fail to see what all the fuss is about.
The ESL set-up seems to me to reflect the English Football League set-up, when formed in 1888, prior to the creation of a second tier in 1892. From small things, bigger things grow.
For mine, let these big wigs dive around in the sun (I'm sure they won't be anywhere to be seen in the colder months) and get knackered.
Maybe they would have to field weaker teams in the Prem. Maybe they would have to play more British Boys in the Prem. Maybe these would be good for the other clubs and even England FC.
Maybe not. Who knows?
The ESL set-up seems to me to reflect the English Football League set-up, when formed in 1888, prior to the creation of a second tier in 1892. From small things, bigger things grow.
For mine, let these big wigs dive around in the sun (I'm sure they won't be anywhere to be seen in the colder months) and get knackered.
Maybe they would have to field weaker teams in the Prem. Maybe they would have to play more British Boys in the Prem. Maybe these would be good for the other clubs and even England FC.
Maybe not. Who knows?
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
No, no. Not that version. A dirty dozen version. A version that fans would’ve never accepted, but compared to this shambles, it seems a better outcome.
REAL action needs to be taken, a true intense boycott of the clubs sponsors and partners and they should NEVER be forgiven.
But I’m afraid to say the ESL will happen, we can’t stop it.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
That's a dead cert ct_u.
I just hope that the super clubs are not barred from playing in the league.
In 1888 the FA failed to stop them money paying heathens from forming the Football League.
In 1895 the Rugby Football Union ditto the Northern Union, later to become the Rugby League.
In 1968, tennis gave in to the pro's.
Darts had a couple of cracks, first in 1973 and again in 1992, to improve the financial prospects.
It's called progress P R O G R E S S sometimes spelled S H I T E. It happens.
I just hope that the super clubs are not barred from playing in the league.
In 1888 the FA failed to stop them money paying heathens from forming the Football League.
In 1895 the Rugby Football Union ditto the Northern Union, later to become the Rugby League.
In 1968, tennis gave in to the pro's.
Darts had a couple of cracks, first in 1973 and again in 1992, to improve the financial prospects.
It's called progress P R O G R E S S sometimes spelled S H I T E. It happens.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Your version of “P R O G R E S S” seems to be going backwards to 1888 and a single division with no relegation. Even that only lasted 4 years.GordonvaleClaret wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:34 amI fail to see what all the fuss is about.
The ESL set-up seems to me to reflect the English Football League set-up, when formed in 1888, prior to the creation of a second tier in 1892. From small things, bigger things grow.
For mine, let these big wigs dive around in the sun (I'm sure they won't be anywhere to be seen in the colder months) and get knackered.
Maybe they would have to field weaker teams in the Prem. Maybe they would have to play more British Boys in the Prem. Maybe these would be good for the other clubs and even England FC.
Maybe not. Who knows?
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
At first, I was keen on the idea because I thought it would be a way to get rid of the teams that we can barely compete with.GordonvaleClaret wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:34 amI fail to see what all the fuss is about.
The ESL set-up seems to me to reflect the English Football League set-up, when formed in 1888, prior to the creation of a second tier in 1892. From small things, bigger things grow.
For mine, let these big wigs dive around in the sun (I'm sure they won't be anywhere to be seen in the colder months) and get knackered.
Maybe they would have to field weaker teams in the Prem. Maybe they would have to play more British Boys in the Prem. Maybe these would be good for the other clubs and even England FC.
Maybe not. Who knows?
However I soon changed my mind when I saw the kind of impact the move would have on domestic football and even our own club. It could have resulted in the premier league dissolving. But not only would we get next to no income, the entire football dream would be dead. No more Leicester wonder stories, no more chance of us playing in Europe and even more money for the big teams to make an even larger divide.
I couldn't care less if they get punished for it or not, but what I do care about is something positive comes out of it. Time to end the lavish spending and make clubs only spend what they earn. The major league soccer rules have it right in my opinion. Only 3 players with uncapped wages unless you're willing to pay a hefty fine.
The clubs that will continue to breach that limit will pay big fines for it and the money is redistributed into the rest of the league.
Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
I'm not sure it would be as bad as that. I see it as a kind of Rugby League/Rugby Union set up.superdimitri wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:29 amAt first, I was keen on the idea because I thought it would be a way to get rid of the teams that we can barely compete with.
However I soon changed my mind when I saw the kind of impact the move would have on domestic football and even our own club. It could have resulted in the premier league dissolving. But not only would we get next to no income, the entire football dream would be dead. No more Leicester wonder stories, no more chance of us playing in Europe and even more money for the big teams to make an even larger divide.
I couldn't care less if they get punished for it or not, but what I do care about is something positive comes out of it. Time to end the lavish spending and make clubs only spend what they earn. The major league soccer rules have it right in my opinion. Only 3 players with uncapped wages unless you're willing to pay a hefty fine.
The clubs that will continue to breach that limit will pay big fines for it and the money is redistributed into the rest of the league.
These elite clubs would form a completely separate football organisation - no FIFA, UEFA etc. but their own organisations. They could set their own Laws - say bigger goals, no offsides, timing changes and so on. It might be a different form of football.
What the television public and fans will make of that is anybody's guess.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
As said we already knew that and that’s what these clubs were trying to pull out of.claptrappers_union wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:22 amNo, no. Not that version. A dirty dozen version. A version that fans would’ve never accepted, but compared to this shambles, it seems a better outcome.
REAL action needs to be taken, a true intense boycott of the clubs sponsors and partners and they should NEVER be forgiven.
But I’m afraid to say the ESL will happen, we can’t stop it.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
The thing these owners don't understand is the excitement football offers to the fans, and the viewing public. It is solely a cash cow to them.
They don't get the excitement of pushing for a title, fighting fir survival, competing for Europe. When the giants do clash in Europe it generates excitement because of its rarity. They might only meet once every 4 or 5 years, depending on the draw.
To play each other 3 or 4 times a season, in a 'competition ' that could quickly develop into a two horse race, with no relegation, would turn most matches into meaningless friendlies.
We splash out and go to an expensive restaurant as a treat, to spoil ourselves. If you ate there every night, it would become boring. That's what the ESL would do to football, peoe would become bored and blasè about it. It wouldn't generate the excitement they seek and would quickly die a death. You might as well go to the theatre or opera for your entertainment if football doesn't have that competition.
The football World has saved them from falling on their own swords, because we as fans can see all the holes in their plan, but I doubt they can even now.
As for going forward I don't believe the majority of these clubs will give up , just because they don't get it. In order to stop it we should put in place a contract , in that they agree not to try it again without accepting a fine for breaching said contract. A fine of their last 5 years worth of income from the Premier League would be sound. If they go at least those left behind could have 6 billion to soften the blow. They could argue against it, which would just prove they can't be trusted, after all the fine can only be initiated if they try to screw us again.
They don't get the excitement of pushing for a title, fighting fir survival, competing for Europe. When the giants do clash in Europe it generates excitement because of its rarity. They might only meet once every 4 or 5 years, depending on the draw.
To play each other 3 or 4 times a season, in a 'competition ' that could quickly develop into a two horse race, with no relegation, would turn most matches into meaningless friendlies.
We splash out and go to an expensive restaurant as a treat, to spoil ourselves. If you ate there every night, it would become boring. That's what the ESL would do to football, peoe would become bored and blasè about it. It wouldn't generate the excitement they seek and would quickly die a death. You might as well go to the theatre or opera for your entertainment if football doesn't have that competition.
The football World has saved them from falling on their own swords, because we as fans can see all the holes in their plan, but I doubt they can even now.
As for going forward I don't believe the majority of these clubs will give up , just because they don't get it. In order to stop it we should put in place a contract , in that they agree not to try it again without accepting a fine for breaching said contract. A fine of their last 5 years worth of income from the Premier League would be sound. If they go at least those left behind could have 6 billion to soften the blow. They could argue against it, which would just prove they can't be trusted, after all the fine can only be initiated if they try to screw us again.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
I think they were quite serious with the proposals but at the same time wanted to test the waters. The reaction has seen to this idea and I think they know that using existing clubs will never be allowed.
What it doesn't count out though is a serious IPL style tournament, a new form of football. When they would do it is anyone's guess but the Summers when there are no competitions would seem the likeliest time. They would be basically exhibition matches but if they can get some top players onside with financial packages off the scale for a few more games in a year, and do the whole auction thing, make it a real event with franchise teams, logos, brands, etc, and a final trophy at the end, then they could really try & grow new clubs not affiliated with any governing bodies.
You don't need that many teams to start it up really, a league of 6 let's say, drop it to 30 mins a half, 2 week tournament with the top 2 going to a final. Like in cricket it would definitely bring about the country vs franchise choice but if the players are paid well I reckon some would choose to not play international friendlies in June and go for this style of tournament, fringe players maybe or ones coming back after injuries. It may not be an instant success but it could well gradually grow to become something big that eventually the top players will want to be a part of; players like Tarky, Redmond, Richarlison, older pros like Bardsley, and the likes plus all the world's decent quality footballers from Japan, Europe, South America, etc, all come together. They would jump at it I reckon and could really become quite famous from it all, a few weeks in the spotlight, with a big fat wedge in a few weeks. Get a few of the top players in 5 years time like Bellingham, Foden, older pros, the likes of Cavani, Messi even, playing less as they get older, etc. The whole marketing of it could take over the world for a few weeks. If I were a cut-throat businessman in sport and didn't care much about sporting integrity then I'd be looking to set up this form in today's world, if legally possible.
What it doesn't count out though is a serious IPL style tournament, a new form of football. When they would do it is anyone's guess but the Summers when there are no competitions would seem the likeliest time. They would be basically exhibition matches but if they can get some top players onside with financial packages off the scale for a few more games in a year, and do the whole auction thing, make it a real event with franchise teams, logos, brands, etc, and a final trophy at the end, then they could really try & grow new clubs not affiliated with any governing bodies.
You don't need that many teams to start it up really, a league of 6 let's say, drop it to 30 mins a half, 2 week tournament with the top 2 going to a final. Like in cricket it would definitely bring about the country vs franchise choice but if the players are paid well I reckon some would choose to not play international friendlies in June and go for this style of tournament, fringe players maybe or ones coming back after injuries. It may not be an instant success but it could well gradually grow to become something big that eventually the top players will want to be a part of; players like Tarky, Redmond, Richarlison, older pros like Bardsley, and the likes plus all the world's decent quality footballers from Japan, Europe, South America, etc, all come together. They would jump at it I reckon and could really become quite famous from it all, a few weeks in the spotlight, with a big fat wedge in a few weeks. Get a few of the top players in 5 years time like Bellingham, Foden, older pros, the likes of Cavani, Messi even, playing less as they get older, etc. The whole marketing of it could take over the world for a few weeks. If I were a cut-throat businessman in sport and didn't care much about sporting integrity then I'd be looking to set up this form in today's world, if legally possible.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
There's millions who would watch it globally. Millions. That's why they needed Arsenal. In fact they only needed Utd Arsenal and Liverpool from England provided they had enough others. I suspect Chelsea and City were there because the had to be as perennial top 4, and spurs because of Arsenal
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
So where does Rangers vs Celtic fit into this idea that people would soon become cheesed off playing each other continuously? They play each other about five or six times a season and sell out every game.
You can’t get much more of a closed shop than Scottish football or the top end of most European leagues.
You can’t get much more of a closed shop than Scottish football or the top end of most European leagues.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
And how interesting is Scottish football.ClaretLoup wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:25 pmSo where does Rangers vs Celtic fit into this idea that people would soon become cheesed off playing each other continuously? They play each other about five or six times a season and sell out every game.
You can’t get much more of a closed shop than Scottish football or the top end of most European leagues.
There's a reason they moot trying to join the Premiership. The ESL would fall the same way because no matter how much money the greedy buggers get, Citeh and Chelsra would have the same, plus whatever their owners are more than happy to top up. It would be a 2 horse race. It's also patently clear that the top stars, or most of them, don't want to be part of it. If the majority of their stellar players quit to continue in the leagues, the gloss would diminish before it kicked off.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
I'm far from convinced. It would be, essentially, a sporting competition without genuine sporting competition.BabylonClaret wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:10 pmThere's millions who would watch it globally. Millions. That's why they needed Arsenal. In fact they only needed Utd Arsenal and Liverpool from England provided they had enough others. I suspect Chelsea and City were there because the had to be as perennial top 4, and spurs because of Arsenal
Yes, millions world wide would be their starting audience. But this "audience" would not be the true fans to whom the heart of these clubs belong. It would always have a fundamental deficit of "democracy" and it would starve itself under the weight of contradictions.
It would wither and die like the Soviet Union in the face of real competition.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
And they will.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:10 amAs said we already knew that and that’s what these clubs were trying to pull out of.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
And they have now said they won't - I somehow think you don't have the full story here.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
.... and you think that's true? You think their apologies are sincere? The owners of these clubs and the backers of this proposed Super League will . not . stop.
These are the types who don't just throw-in the towel after just 48 hours of racket. Behind the scenes, it's still happening. I don't understand how everyone is buying this notion that these owners have seen sense.
What they relased was not the plan... the real plan is still to come. Consider how much time it took negotiating between each other to even agree to the principle of the League, it must've taken years... then they just brush it all off... No way. This is the just (another) beginning of what they really want - and they will get it.
We are now approaching what looks like a 'pre-zombie' football era, there will be an elephant in the room everytime one of those clubs plays a bottom six team or when they draw a Championship team in a cup competition. It's over, it can't be repaired.
These are the types who don't just throw-in the towel after just 48 hours of racket. Behind the scenes, it's still happening. I don't understand how everyone is buying this notion that these owners have seen sense.
What they relased was not the plan... the real plan is still to come. Consider how much time it took negotiating between each other to even agree to the principle of the League, it must've taken years... then they just brush it all off... No way. This is the just (another) beginning of what they really want - and they will get it.
We are now approaching what looks like a 'pre-zombie' football era, there will be an elephant in the room everytime one of those clubs plays a bottom six team or when they draw a Championship team in a cup competition. It's over, it can't be repaired.
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Re: ARTICLE: The ESL – It came and went
Have you been away for the last few days and missed what happened? We know what they want, we know they didn't get it, we know the apologies are totally insincere, and we also know what happened to stop it.claptrappers_union wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:50 pm.... and you think that's true? You think their apologies are sincere? The owners of these clubs and the backers of this proposed Super League will . not . stop.
These are the types who don't just throw-in the towel after just 48 hours of racket. Behind the scenes, it's still happening. I don't understand how everyone is buying this notion that these owners have seen sense.
What they relased was not the plan... the real plan is still to come. Consider how much time it took negotiating between each other to even agree to the principle of the League, it must've taken years... then they just brush it all off... No way. This is the just (another) beginning of what they really want - and they will get it.
We are now approaching what looks like a 'pre-zombie' football era, there will be an elephant in the room everytime one of those clubs plays a bottom six team or when they draw a Championship team in a cup competition. It's over, it can't be repaired.