“This is the worst we will be all season”

[boyyanno]

Dyche football was dreadful, the signings were short term, a side built to decline. VK has just delivered a season Dyche could only dream of, blew teams away like we were Barcelona.

You've been sniffing glue.

You think last season was a better achievement than getting us in to Europe?

You think that signings like Jack Cork were "short term"?

There were some negatives from the Dyche era and the style of football was certainly one, but let's not start rewriting history by talking absolute garbage.

[bumba]

I find it astonishing how quick “Burnley fans” are to slag off this team of all teams, like the 100+ points season counts for nothing?

After last seasons new team and slow start, have fans not learnt to be just a little patient?

Let’s just f**k everything BFC eh, let’s all just revel in defeat, balls to VK and the long term vision, as a newly promoted team we aren’t beating teams in European football so burn the whole thing down

It does count for nothing now because he's ripped that team apart and started fresh resulting in bad results and bad performances

[KRBFC]

You've been sniffing glue.

You think last season was a better achievement than getting us in to Europe?

You think that signings like Jack Cork were "short term"?

There were some negatives from the Dyche era and the style of football was certainly one, but let's not start rewriting history by talking absolute garbage.

I enjoyed last season more than any Dyche season, I didn’t say it was a better achievement just a foreign style to Dyche. Of course all of the signings weren’t short term.

[boyyanno]

I enjoyed last season more than any Dyche season, I didn’t say it was a better achievement just a foreign style to Dyche. Of course all of the signings weren’t short term.

"VK has just delivered a season Dyche could only dream of"

Yeah course that's what you said

[dsr]

Even in 2017-18, when we qualified for Europe, our record against the other European qualifiers was W1 D4 L7. 0.5 points per game, 1 win in 12. If we had matches that average this season, new to the PL, our total points tally would be 3.5 so far, still in the relegation zone.

We are still unbeaten against sides that didn't qualify for Europe last year. Time yet!

[CoolClaret]

Dyche football was dreadful, the signings were short term, a side built to decline. VK has just delivered a season Dyche could only dream of, blew teams away like we were Barcelona.

Complete and utter revisionist hogwash.

How do you think Kompany would cope given the budget Dyche had for 3 of his last seasons in the Prem?

[TsarBomba]

Complete and utter revisionist hogwash.

How do you think Kompany would cope given the budget Dyche had for 3 of his last seasons in the Prem?

This line gets reported out all the time about budget, and Dyche having a lack of it.

The fact is, Dyche did have a budget.

Wages had increased to 75% of turnover under Dyche.

Dyche preferred seasoned pro’s on £50k compared to kids we have now on £20/30k. That left little in the tank to spend on fees, because it was going on wages.

[Tall Paul]

We are still unbeaten against sides that didn't qualify for Europe last year. Time yet!

No we aren't.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I enjoyed last season more than any Dyche season, I didn’t say it was a better achievement just a foreign style to Dyche. Of course all of the signings weren’t short term.

How could you enjoy last season more than the year we first got promoted under Dyche or the second time. Then to even top that the European season.

Last season doesn’t come close to any of them seasons under Dyche. I don’t think il ever have the same feeling as I did that first promotion season under Dyche

[CoolClaret]

This line gets reported out all the time about budget, and Dyche having a lack of it.

The fact is, Dyche did have a budget.

Wages had increased to 75% of turnover under Dyche.

Dyche preferred seasoned pro’s on £50k compared to kids we have now on £20/30k. That left little in the tank to spend on fees, because it was going on wages.

Did Dyche have them numbers on his championship promotion seasons?

Aye, Wages naturally increase when we were in the Prem for a few seasons as they do and I believe hitting certain benchmarks/targets and what not also lead to those increased fees.

Who were his ‘preferred season pros’ ? Few new lads in our squad now have resigned deals and I can’t imagine that some of our new signings are on relative ‘peanuts’.

For argument sake, even if we had 25 players on an average of 50k / week with Dyche and 25 on a average of 20k / week now over 52 weeks that’s a maximum possible difference of 28.5 mill a year in wages.

Take 28.5 mill off our transfer outlay for this season then, it’s still around 90-100 mill more to VK for this single season…

Well aware that there is the argument from generating profit from future/potential player sales but :

1) we haven’t done that under Kompany as of yet
2) the players we have bought have to perform and have regular game time to appreciate in value… that’s hard to do when you have a large squad with some areas having even 3/4 players capable of playing in that position.

[ksrclaret]

This line gets reported out all the time about budget, and Dyche having a lack of it.

The fact is, Dyche did have a budget.

Wages had increased to 75% of turnover under Dyche.

Dyche preferred seasoned pro’s on £50k compared to kids we have now on £20/30k. That left little in the tank to spend on fees, because it was going on wages.

And if VK sorts it out and manages to keep us up for 6 seasons like Dyche did, I imagine the wage bill will have to become broadly similar. Players part of a team who do that will rightly expect their wages to increase in line with other established PL players. We could sell them on and keep buying new kids each year, but we likely won't survive for very long doing that.

Dyche did prefer seasoned pros, and his style of play was rudimentary (I was thoroughly fed up with it by the end), but you could never argue with the results until season 6.

[dougcollins]

Dyche did prefer seasoned pros, and his style of play was rudimentary (I was thoroughly fed up with it by the end), but you could never argue with the results until season 6.

Yep, that style of play with no result really grinds the life out of you.

[Jakubclaret]

Dyche football was dreadful, the signings were short term, a side built to decline. VK has just delivered a season Dyche could only dream of, blew teams away like we were Barcelona.

In quite a simply dreadful league that must really stack up as some sort of a high achievement. After promotion the contrast appears to be every opposition encountered so far appear to be barcelona blowing us away (forest exempt & short shades in certain playing periods in other games) dyche did what he had to do with the resources at his disposal & successfully so & achieved what VK is yet to do & maybe will never do, chalk & cheese no comparison between the both.

[Jakubclaret]

We've all the ingredients of being an excellent counter attacking team if only we moved the ball quicker and stopped losing possession so cheaply.

To properly execute that plan you need fast mobile midfielders who have the speed of thought to shift the ball very quickly to service the wingers. We are far too slow & ponderous & more than often on the back foot. Working on set pieces will probably be our most productive avenue.

[Big Vinny K]

Did Dyche have them numbers on his championship promotion seasons?

Aye, Wages naturally increase when we were in the Prem for a few seasons as they do and I believe hitting certain benchmarks/targets and what not also lead to those increased fees.

Who were his ‘preferred season pros’ ? Few new lads in our squad now have resigned deals and I can’t imagine that some of our new signings are on relative ‘peanuts’.

For argument sake, even if we had 25 players on an average of 50k / week with Dyche and 25 on a average of 20k / week now over 52 weeks that’s a maximum possible difference of 28.5 mill a year in wages.

Take 28.5 mill off our transfer outlay for this season then, it’s still around 90-100 mill more to VK for this single season…

Well aware that there is the argument from generating profit from future/potential player sales but :

1) we haven’t done that under Kompany as of yet
2) the players we have bought have to perform and have regular game time to appreciate in value… that’s hard to do when you have a large squad with some areas having even 3/4 players capable of playing in that position.

The total wage bill under Dyche by the end was pushing £90m by the end.
The average age of the squad was one of the oldest (if not the oldest) in the PL.
The resale value of players as they get into their 30s can be limited - but we got lucky in bringing in £25m for Chris Wood which was looking back an outrageously good fee considering his age and form.

VK in the space of months reduced the total wage bill to around £27m. That’s pretty remarkable and without checking back on our year end accounts in the seasons after we were relegated under Dyche I would be amazed if the reduction in the wage bill was of a similar proportion.

Of course the wage bill will have increased now under VK but my own view is that the reason VK has been backed in the transfer market to the tune of £100m plus is because of the reductions achieved in our wage bill. The transfer spend amortised over a 4 year period will be circa £25m a year and I’d guess our wage bill now compared to where we were under Dyche is also around £25m less.

We will find out when the accounts are published the exact numbers. We are following a different strategy now in reducing the age of our squad drastically. But selling players at more than what we paid for them as been our way for years. It has to be for us like it is for many other clubs. It’s too soon in VK’s tenure to see whether this has worked and VK is hopefully here for a lot longer yet so he has time to work with them and develop players.

I’m not criticising Dyche in any way btw. He was also extremely successful in developing players and selling them at a profit. Dyche paid less than £10m in total for Tarks, Pope, Heaton, Barnes, Lowton and Keane. That’s pretty incredible.

[KRBFC]

Dyche did prefer seasoned pros, and his style of play was rudimentary (I was thoroughly fed up with it by the end), but you could never argue with the results until season 6.

I don’t think anybody ever questioned the results, apart from the cup games where the difference in division wasn’t evident because we couldn’t break down sides that let us have the ball.

[CoolClaret]

The total wage bill under Dyche by the end was pushing £90m by the end.
The average age of the squad was one of the oldest (if not the oldest) in the PL.
The resale value of players as they get into their 30s can be limited - but we got lucky in bringing in £25m for Chris Wood which was looking back an outrageously good fee considering his age and form.

VK in the space of months reduced the total wage bill to around £27m. That’s pretty remarkable and without checking back on our year end accounts in the seasons after we were relegated under Dyche I would be amazed if the reduction in the wage bill was of a similar proportion.

Of course the wage bill will have increased now under VK but my own view is that the reason VK has been backed in the transfer market to the tune of £100m plus is because of the reductions achieved in our wage bill. The transfer spend amortised over a 4 year period will be circa £25m a year and I’d guess our wage bill now compared to where we were under Dyche is also around £25m less.

We will find out when the accounts are published the exact numbers. We are following a different strategy now in reducing the age of our squad drastically. But selling players at more than what we paid for them as been our way for years. It has to be for us like it is for many other clubs. It’s too soon in VK’s tenure to see whether this has worked and VK is hopefully here for a lot longer yet so he has time to work with them and develop players.

I’m not criticising Dyche in any way btw. He was also extremely successful in developing players and selling them at a profit. Dyche paid less than £10m in total for Tarks, Pope, Heaton, Barnes, Lowton and Keane. That’s pretty incredible.

I think the sort of contracts we would have had in place would have been heavily incentivised for bonus’ dependent on keeping the team in the PL.

Worth mentioning that wage bill is on the back of 6 straight seasons in the top flight… I can’t imagine Dyche’s budget in the champ was anywhere near what VK had last season!

Also the funding for transfers more than a couple of million was pulled from about season 4 in the PL.

& yeah VK did marvellously reducing the wage budget last season - certainly not denying that, though I would add that balancing the books etc won’t be on the manager! They certainly don’t decide on the contract values and budget.

All I’m saying is that for a first season in the PL for a manger VK has been heavily backed and therefore needs to show more than what we have seen so far.

[Big Vinny K]

I think the sort of contracts we would have had in place would have been heavily incentivised for bonus’ dependent on keeping the team in the PL.

Worth mentioning that wage bill is on the back of 6 straight seasons in the top flight… I can’t imagine Dyche’s budget in the champ was anywhere near what VK had last season!

Also the funding for transfers more than a couple of million was pulled from about season 4 in the PL.

& yeah VK did marvellously reducing the wage budget last season - certainly not denying that, though I would add that balancing the books etc won’t be on the manager! They certainly don’t decide on the contract values and budget.

All I’m saying is that for a first season in the PL for a manger VK has been heavily backed and therefore needs to show more than what we have seen so far.

As I said I would be amazed that if Dyche had to cope with the size of reduction in the wage bill that Kompany had to last year. I’m not going to bother checking our accounts to confirm this as I have enough knowledge of our finances and also the relative turnover of our players in the respective seasons to be pretty confident I am correct.

In terms of our wage bill being this level after 6 seasons I get this but it was not that dramatic an increase in wages year on year across the last 6 year spell in the PL. The first time Dyche got us up it was a very different story - he brought a lot of players in on a free like Arfield, Heaton, Jones etc. And he was also starting at a point when our wage bill was already pretty low on the back of a number of seasons in the Championship. What Dyche did in getting us up was pretty amazing. This was also a long time ago in terms of how crazy wages have gone since so the first time we went down is difficult to compare financially. The second time is more relevant.

VK may not be directly responsible for balancing the books I agree. But it’s very clear he is an integral part in how we do this. Dyche’s relationship with the board in ‘balancing the books” was very different. He often spoke about this like it was a battle and that his budget was limited to what it was by the owners. I never got the impression there was a long term financial strategy which linked into the on the pitch strategy…..other than it was important that the books were balanced every year.

It feels the opposite under VK and Pace - and that does not mean that it will necessarily work and be a successful strategy but think they are definitely aligned in their thinking.

[JimmyRobbo]

So then, following Vincent’s comments on the City game being the worst that the team will be all season - was he correct or does he look a bit of a fool in that we were even worse in the very next game?

Only one person stands out as "foolish". That's you with your lame trolling from Blackburn. Nobody is fooled.

[dsr]

No we aren't.

Thank you for your helpful and informative comment.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Another game to add to the list of worse performances than the City one.

I said at the time it was an idiotic statement and I was right.

[Swizzlestick]

It wasn’t an idiotic statement - it was a throwaway statement that you’ve decided to hyper-analyse for some reason. It’s just typical post game management speak to keep the morale going. It doesn’t matter.

[Vim Fuego]

Another game to add to the list of worse performances than the City one.

I said at the time it was an idiotic statement and I was right.

You might be right. But a true Claret would not gloat

B@stard fan sure

[gandhisflipflop]

Another game to add to the list of worse performances than the City one.

I said at the time it was an idiotic statement and I was right.

I’ve got an idiotic statement for you.


Foster is pony.

[DCWat]

******* hell - is this going to be regurgitated after each and every defeat / poor performance!?

[ksrclaret]

You might be right. But a true Claret would not gloat

B@stard fan sure

Absolutely, he’s a fiddler all right.

[Swizzlestick]

******* hell - is this going to be regurgitated after each and every defeat / poor performance!?

You’re talking about a poster who was so wrong about his pre season assessment of Foster, that rather than just admitting he made a ******** of it, has continuously doubled down to the point that he scored him a 3 today. So yes, it probably will be.

[Wile E Coyote]

Complete and utter revisionist hogwash.

How do you think Kompany would cope given the budget Dyche had for 3 of his last seasons in the Prem?

And how do you think Pep would cope with Accy's budget?

[StayingDown4Ever]

******* hell - is this going to be regurgitated after each and every defeat / poor performance!?

Just after the ones where we are worse than the City game.

[timshorts]

Just after the ones where we are worse than the City game.

Well we still have 16 games left to go against sides in the top 11 where we have lost every game.

And 14 against the 8 that are with us in the relegation league where we are unbeaten.

Of course losing to one of those 8 might automatically mean it was worse than the City game given that we always lose to city by a good few anyway.

[CoolClaret]

And how do you think Pep would cope with Accy's budget?

Think Pep is a good coach and would do alright

How do you think a John Coleman would do with City? He isn’t bringing the success that Pep has - that’s for sure.

[Murger]

Bump.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Not really

What you saying now boy?

[taio]

What you saying now boy?

That your enjoyment at repeatedly bumping this thread is pathetic.

[DCWat]

FFS we know what he said. Is this going to be bumped after every poor display!? There will be enough threads today without this one being brought back to the top every time.

[StayingDown4Ever]

That your enjoyment at repeatedly bumping this thread is pathetic.

It was Murger who bumped it you absolute mug

[taio]

It was Murger who bumped it you absolute mug

You've bumped this thread multiple times you absolute mug

[StayingDown4Ever]

Another game passes by and another performance worse than the City game to add to the list.

What an absolute fool Vincent was with this statement. Utterly humiliating.

[BobSykes]

It felt like a massive hostage to fortune at the time but when he said it i had confidence that he had seen something special and believed we'd be romping away within a couple of ganes.

With every week it becomes clearer to me he genuinely believed it, and is as utterly shellshocked as we are that he's purchased a mostly third rate or far from ready enough young prospects.

Surely after 10 games and one win, which we barely deserved on the night in truth, he must accept that if he's to keep his job he must deploy the resources at his disposal and put out a team and tactics that might win us some points. We can't just suicidally slump week after week because he believes the players will finally come good, even if relegation is a price to pay for that.

If he won't, then off you f**k.

[StayingDown4Ever]

It felt like a massive hostage to fortune at the time but when he said it i had confidence that he had seen something special and believed we'd be romping away within a couple of ganes.

With every week it becomes clearer to me he genuinely believed it, and is as utterly shellshocked as we are that he's purchased a mostly third rate or far from ready enough young prospects.

Surely after 10 games and one win, which we barely deserved on the night in truth, he must accept that if he's to keep his job he must deploy the resources at his disposal and put out a team and tactics that might win us some points. We can't just suicidally slump week after week because he believes the players will finally come good, even if relegation is a price to pay for that.

If he won't, then off you f**k.

I think you are correct with most of that. I suppose the question is if he does believe they will come good and persists with these outrageous tactics and team selections then how many more games must we suffer before Pace pulls the trigger?

[StayingDown4Ever]

Can this thread just be pinned please? I had to go all the way back to page 3 to find it today…

[Newcastleclaret93]

Can this thread just be pinned please? I had to go all the way back to page 3 to find it today…

Your going to be more hated than me soon haha

[StayingDown4Ever]

Your going to be more hated than me soon haha

Steady on!

But seriously, it’s staggering how wrong he was on that statement. Humiliating.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Steady on!

But seriously, it’s staggering how wrong he was on that statement. Humiliating.

Have you ever said anything that is wrong ?

[StayingDown4Ever]

Have you ever said anything that is wrong ?

Nothing close to being that wrong.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Nothing close to being that wrong.

Now imagine that odd time in your life you got something slightly wrong, how quickly would you get bored with some juvenile reminding you about it on a daily / weekly basis ?

[StayingDown4Ever]

Now imagine that odd time in your life you got something slightly wrong, how quickly would you get bored with some juvenile reminding you about it on a daily / weekly basis ?

I don’t think Vincent comes on here after every game to check the thread has been bumped.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Another one to add to the list of humiliation.

[vinrogue]

6 hours in the car on my own as other half strictly refused to travel. Berge Brownhill and Amadouni as a 6 8 and 10 are out of their depth in PL and when I think about it the other 8 players were too. So yes “this is the worst we will be all season” MOM the 4th penalty taker at halftime!

[alwaysaclaret]

Getting worse each game, vk learning nothing so we shouldn't be surprised the players aren't, especially the goalkeeper. Think someone said earlier in the thread, there was a point where the TV camera's captured all our backroom on their laptops on the bench, by contrast not one of dyches were. Vk it seems to me has forgotten the basics, and how to just play simple football going off what he can see in front of him. Pathetic really, he filled the stadium, but will empty it if he keeps playing this way.