ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:10 pmOr his refusal to speak to local media/fans has led to any negativity
Wasn't there a meeting last week between Pace and some local fans ?
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:10 pmOr his refusal to speak to local media/fans has led to any negativity
I am saying that a system whereby we have young players on loan to a variety of clubs at different levels, developing hopefully to very capable Championship players offers me more reassurance than the scenario where we last went down. Doesn’t offer guarantees of promotion but does provide better opportunities to reengineer our cost base whilst remaining as competitive as possible.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:51 amWhat comfort? Hardly much contingency for a few bad seasons.
Yes. Its the fans club, we were here long before Pace arrived and will be here long after hes gone. Its part of their duty to communicate with the fans.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:09 pmConsidering everything that comes out the club from the owners side is bitched and moaned about is there much point in him doing interviews for the local people in the local paper.
He does an article every home gameclaretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:11 pmWasn't there a meeting last week between Pace and some local fans ?
A video interview with Radio Lancashire is out now...GetIntoEm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:25 pmspeaking to the Burnley Express is a waste of everyones time based on their current football offering.
however speak to local fans is something that Pace does well, i've had several conversations with him since he's been on the club, same for my kids. he will always stop and engage. seems a nice guy
I think it's a bit of a reach to claim that this is comforting compared to the previous admin that genuinely built long term success/stability for BFC in numerous ways (training ground, accesibility stands, multiple years of PL footy) and absolutely did have players out on loan here there and everywhere.NewClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:26 pmI am saying that a system whereby we have young players on loan to a variety of clubs at different levels, developing hopefully to very capable Championship players offers me more reassurance than the scenario where we last went down. Doesn’t offer guarantees of promotion but does provide better opportunities to reengineer our cost base whilst remaining as competitive as possible.
This doesn’t need a partnership to be true, by the way. Loaning out players to league one or Championship clubs would have the same effect. I just see it as an additional route/channel to support our players development.
I see the pyramid as:
1. First 11
2. First team squad
3. Development players - out on loan getting professional football at different levels. League 1, SPL, Championship.
4. Academy - U18’s to U23s
When we last went down only 4 of group 1 were saleable assets for a variety of reasons, outside of that 2 was also ageing/low quality and 3 didn’t exist, bar maybe Thomas/Dunne. You could argue 4 has deteriorated somewhat given loss of cat 1 status, but it’s far outweighed in my view with strengthening in the other parts.
Think we have 2 players on loan to championship clubs, soon to be 3; 2 in the SPL soon to be 3; 1 in Bundesliga 2. Decent development paths we’re creating there that help to protect us.
And how often did the previous board communicate with the fans? Very rarely the last few seasons.Goliath wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:27 pmYes. Its the fans club, we were here long before Pace arrived and will be here long after hes gone. Its part of their duty to communicate with the fans.
I actually think he got an easy ride last season because of the success on the pitch, i was pretty uneasy with our cavalier attitude to signings along with the secrecy surrounding the clubs finances.
Going a bit OT, this, so for other readers benefit will make this my last post but to reply to your points:CoolClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:33 pmI think it's a bit of a reach to claim that this is comforting compared to the previous admin that genuinely built long term success/stability for BFC in numerous ways (training ground, accesibility stands, multiple years of PL footy) and absolutely did have players out on loan here there and everywhere.
Your argument kinda falls apart when the small number of 'saleable assets' (hate that term) funded not only our subsequent promotion, but also a large chunk of the loan taking out by ALK to buy the club in the first place.
Not to mention, just because a player isn't sold and leaves on a free doesn't mean it's a net negative. How many years of success and revenue did we get from the relatively small initial outlays of Mee and Tarky?
How can you not see the contradiction in here?NewClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:31 amWell, that’s maybe a circular argument because some will argue Garlick would’ve invested in younger players but wasn’t prepared to keep renewing older players contracts - cutting Lennon against his wishes, rumours he/Rigg wanted Wilson by Dyche wouldn’t sanction it, etc.
Either way, he/they left
Lennon
Bardsley
Vydra
Mee
Tarks
Pieters
Stephen’s
Hennessey (?)
All OOC
Barnes
Cork
JRod
Lowts
JBG
With, the greatest respect to those excellent servants, they were all on the wrong side of 30.
We managed to sell just FOUR players for any kind of money from a 25 man Premier League squad and had no players I can recall out on loan or ready to step in to a Championship side. Four saleable assets after five in the Prem. Unbelievable Jeff.
That to me is absolutely shocking mismanagement, whoever’s fault it is (and I accept not all Dyche’s, perhaps). But my overriding point is I feel massively happier with the model we have now - young players out developing and getting game time.
forzagranata wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:27 pmRussell Ball on loan to Dundee to the end of the season?
It's an utterly barking mad argument.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:33 pmI think it's a bit of a reach to claim that this is comforting compared to the previous admin that genuinely built long term success/stability for BFC in numerous ways (training ground, accesibility stands, multiple years of PL footy) and absolutely did have players out on loan here there and everywhere.
Your argument kinda falls apart when the small number of 'saleable assets' (hate that term) funded not only our subsequent promotion, but also a large chunk of the loan taking out by ALK to buy the club in the first place.
Not to mention, just because a player isn't sold and leaves on a free doesn't mean it's a net negative. How many years of success and revenue did we get from the relatively small initial outlays of Mee and Tarky?
I see him speaking to fans before every home game. He also talks to a lot of people in the corporate sections on the odd occasion I have been in there.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:10 pmOr his refusal to speak to local media/fans has led to any negativity
That’s fine but he won’t speak to supporters groups nor will the club despite PL requirementshelmclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:16 pmI see him speaking to fans before every home game. He also talks to a lot of people in the corporate sections on the odd occasion I have been in there.
I think something was suggested when Lewis went there on loanChester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:14 pmThis deal as we know has been in the offing for some time - when you delve into the Dundee ownership record you will see that they have got pretty sick of dipping into their pockets all the time to keep the club going and have been looking for someone to either take over/help them with it for a while
Was certainly happy some were OOC, certainly not Mee, Tarks, Vydra maybe. Having so many OOC in one summer, particularly our main CB pairing, and the general age profile of the squad was what I viewed as mismanagement.boyyanno wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:09 pmHow can you not see the contradiction in here?
If you were unhappy that the squad was ageing then you'd have been happy that they were out of contract wouldn't you?
The squad wasn't mismanaged, it had naff all investment in it.
But the real telling thing here is despite all the garbage about how we had such an awful team the following are all current PL players:
Pope,
Tarks,
Mee,
Roberts,
Taylor,
Brownhill,
Gudmundsson
Cornet
McNeil
That's ignoring the likes of Rodriguez and Cork who are barely featuring.
Your whole post is full of contradictions. Shame on the previous regime for having players like Gudmundson, Cork, Rodriguez, Barnes etc, but happy we kept them again?
Just bizarre nonsense that when actually scrutinised makes no sense.
I get what you mean though- current regime amazing- old regime crap. Just post that next time.
Yep, he says its only a couple of hours away on the train. Hope he packs a flask...randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:12 pmMr Pace is watching Dundee this weekend according to his interview
The point being these are investments that are needed in the long term, but aren't going to see an return in the short term, that is what being sustainable is - having a ton of LEDs to bing adverts is hardly revolutionary is it? Not to mention costs a relative pittance.NewClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:05 pm- Agree the training ground was a fantastic investment, not so sure the same credit can be given for fulfilling a mandatory accessibility requirement. Conversely I think the ground improvements have continued with the LED’s, hospitality investment, FanZone, etc that you could equally argue benefit more fans and contribute to sustainable development of the club. I’d like to see this continue though, but doesn’t mean I can’t recognise achievements elsewhere in moving the club forward.
This is conveniently overlooking the effects of Covid though -NewClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:05 pm
- Agree that the four we did sell saved our backsides. Massively. Then Kompany put the surplus available to him to very good use. My point was more that I’d expect that a team with 5 years in the premier league to have at least 10 or 11 players that could attract a buyer (alternative wording). Four is a pitiful number, and should be noted 50% were ALK signings in the prior year - Collins, Cornet - 60%+ by value).
- Agree also that sustaining prem football should be considered when considering the value players brought to the club. Argued vehemently for Tarks to be retained for two years over accepting low offers and that strategy paid back many millions more. What was criminal was having both of his and Mee’s contracts expire at the same time.
I have been there for a long time - absolutely refused to put my money into the game for over 20 years nowCoolClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:23 amI've been battling with this for a while but,
Is anyone else really struggling with supporting the modern game?
Still have passion for BFC but finding it increasingly difficult to bother when we're doing the same **** as the other clubs that are ruining football.
Shaking hands and posing for selfies isn't exactly "communicating" with fans.helmclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:16 pmI see him speaking to fans before every home game. He also talks to a lot of people in the corporate sections on the odd occasion I have been in there.
Really last reply now as we’re well OTCoolClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:23 pmThe point being these are investments that are needed in the long term, but aren't going to see an return in the short term, that is what being sustainable is - having a ton of LEDs to bing adverts is hardly revolutionary is it? Not to mention costs a relative pittance.
Hospitality another - it's absolutely necessary in the modern game but again that has been done to the detriment of other areas/longer standing fans
This is conveniently overlooking the effects of Covid though -
If money isn't available for transfer and the task is to stay in the league, what do you expect the manager to do? It clearly was sustainable for points that I alluded to before, we were profitable, had cash in reserve and had enough to come back up first time.
There's certainly more players that we sold over our time for a decent fee whilst remaining in the PL - this notion that we just signed journeymen and Dyche/Garlick left us in a complete mess is just nonsense.
He’s actually driving there barefooted.forzagranata wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:22 pmYep, he says its only a couple of hours away on the train. Hope he packs a flask...
Toblerone in hand
I'm talking about general communication about the club. I couldn't care less whether or not he talks to fans on match day. We've barely heard a peep from the Board this season.
Of course it was okay, it enabled us to rebuild the team and put together a group of players that walked the league.NewClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:20 pmWas certainly happy some were OOC, certainly not Mee, Tarks, Vydra maybe. Having so many OOC in one summer, particularly our main CB pairing, and the general age profile of the squad was what I viewed as mismanagement.
Will add that does not mean many were not very, very good players for us and a few still are - Charlie, Brownhill.
If you think the position we were left in last relegation was okay, no problem. I’m not trying to change your view, mine is that it was poor and we’re now in a better position that I can see this relationship with Dundee helping if it develops well. In that we’ll have to see.
Have an good afternoon.
I can't believe that there are people who actually think BFC is a Fan's club. It isn't itis a commercial enterprise out to wring every penny out of people who believe they are supporting “their” club.Goliath wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:27 pmYes. Its the fans club, we were here long before Pace arrived and will be here long after hes gone. Its part of their duty to communicate with the fans.
I actually think he got an easy ride last season because of the success on the pitch, i was pretty uneasy with our cavalier attitude to signings along with the secrecy surrounding the clubs finances.
I don’t agree with Tony’s view of Alan Pace but I can understand and appreciate those that do. Bankers and financiers have a very long history of coming into poor old Burnley district to ‘lift the area’ and when things do not turn overnight end up asset stripping and even destroying the businesses they supposedly came in to transform. John Cotton’s at Colne is just one example that I saw from the inside. AI Uk (automotive industries) took Cotton’s over… then the fantastic takeover of AI by Lear Inc was moving the firm to another level… within a year the stripping had begun and one of the biggest employers in the area taken to pieces bit by bit…helmclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:00 pmThere’s nothing stopping you talking to him.
The constant negativity towards him is ridiculous.
We don't know the details of this 'strategic agreeement'. Do we have to give Dundee first option on any players we are loaning out to Scotland?Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:18 pmScottish Prem is a good standard to send our lads to (it took us extra time to beat Aberdeen), no downside to this from our point of view.
Bottom line is this is the cold hard truth - it's just in recent years it's become even more apparant.brexit wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:04 pmI can't believe that there are people who actually think BFC is a Fan's club. It isn't itis a commercial enterprise out to wring every penny out of people who believe they are supporting “their” club.
Evidence the price of a bine and hot has apparently increased and the catering in the BL is still naff.
But the good news is, hospitality (where the club financial support is) has improved immensely: would recommend it to everyone.
video of his interview here. We can only loan 3 to one club so if Dundee want some of our lads I can see that happening every season but your question is an interesting one ! I can't imagine there is any exclusivity for Dundee but they might get first pickforzagranata wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:30 pmWe don't know the details of this 'strategic agreeement'. Do we have to give Dundee first option on any players we are loaning out to Scotland?
Dundee might not be the best option every time, for every player. CJ Egan-Riley played for Hibs last year - would he still be allowed to do that with this arrangement in place? We don't know.
yeah that was with the fan board which I assume was set up by the club. Tony is talking about the long standing supporters clubs I assume, from memory the PL clubs are 'supposed' to engage with them too and it appears we don't (that's my take on what CT is saying anyway)claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:11 pmWasn't there a meeting last week between Pace and some local fans ?