Mud analytics

[123EasyasBFC]

Riley gave you an example of why this conflict of interest exists- he didn't give you an example of what he thinks Kompany has done/is doing

Waiting for you to find where I have questioned someone being a proper fan on another thread as you tried to say

[boyyanno]

Was there a thread created about mud analytics in January during the window where you raised your concerns?

What about this one in November-

viewtopic.php?style=2&t=72719#p2212598

Let's face it you've been proven completely wrong here.

[123EasyasBFC]

What about this one in November-

viewtopic.php?style=2&t=72719#p2212598

Let's face it you've been proven completely wrong here.

‘Does kompany own part of the club’ is a little bit different to the club using his analytics company don’t you think?

[Rileybobs]

Was there a thread created about mud analytics in January during the window where you raised your concerns?

Not that I know about, but there was a thread questioning it in January when the window was open which means that your claim that there was no thread questioning it in January when the window was open is incorrect. Doesn’t really matter if you keep moving the goalposts.

[boyyanno]

‘Does kompany own part of the club’ is a little bit different to the club using his analytics company don’t you think?

Literally look at post two and then see some wider discussion around it.

[123EasyasBFC]

Literally look at post two and then see some wider discussion around it.

Don’t see anyone raising their concerns about conflict of interest in that wider discussion, especially Rileybobs who feels so strongly about it

[CoolClaret]

Don’t see anyone raising their concerns about conflict of interest in that wider discussion, especially Rileybobs who feels so strongly about it

I mean..

I quite literally did that in that thread.

[CrosspoolClarets]

You’re right, implying that the players we are getting from our analytics exceed that of others. It did last year, it probably did this year too (vs Championship clubs and the two we came up with). Money helps of course.

When I invest in companies I invest in people and study them carefully - the ones involved in Mud seem very good, Mooney etc. So I don’t see a problem. It is a partnership that is exciting and all top clubs have partnerships nowadays. I’d be far more concerned if it were an agency, that would be a clear conflict. This seems to be analytics which is fine.

Any errors this season aren’t the analytics - most are fine players, far better than Luton or Sheffield have I believe, and we will show it next season, though Luton have found some extra wins from somewhere. It was the judgement not to layer it alongside experience and not to prioritise other skillsets or other positions. That is on Kompany. Heck, when I think of the players we missed, most of them are wingers too - Bakayoko, Palmer, Lukebakio etc. No blame on Mud as far as I can see it. They’ll just say who the good players are and how they complement each other. As I’ve posted many times though, he deserves a 2nd chance after the huge joys of last season that we will remember for a lifetime.

As for him having 11 directorships (I think, looking on Companies House) I don’t see any evidence he isn’t putting the hours in at the Turf, quite the reverse, so nothing to see here either, and we are lucky to have him (whether having so much going on leads to mental fatigue and impaired judgement, well, that is a decision the club have to make - I don’t know how he does it, even with all the team of advisors he’ll have. The man must be a machine. I like him.)

Just to add to the above, sorry, can’t edit.

The connections to Man City are interesting because we clearly try to play like them rather than like Arsenal or Liverpool. If Mooney etc have roots in Man City that wouldn’t surprise me. Getting the data is one thing. Choosing what data is important is another. Whether that is the right model to copy is another question.

[aggi]

It’s quite possible that MUD receive a commission on future sales though isn’t it. And that would be where Kompany’s motives could be questioned with regards to signings and team selections.

It's possible.

But realistically Kompany is a very rich man. He spent multiple seasons on an eight figure salary and he could do that again if his managerial career is successful and he ends up at Man City. Is he going to endanger his ambition in order to get a bit of commission on a player sale?

[123EasyasBFC]

Not that I know about, but there was a thread questioning it in January when the window was open which means that your claim that there was no thread questioning it in January when the window was open is incorrect. Doesn’t really matter if you keep moving the goalposts.

No goalposts have been moved there wasn’t a thread created about it until today

[Chester Perry]

This link gives you every instance Mud analytics has been used on this board - over three quarter of them have been on this thread as a result of its title - note it is sorted with the most recent instances first

search.php?keywords=Mud+Analytics&fid%5B0%5D=2

[boyyanno]

Don’t see anyone raising their concerns about conflict of interest in that wider discussion, especially Rileybobs who feels so strongly about it

It's literally the 6th post.

[123EasyasBFC]

I mean..

I quite literally did that in that thread.

It didn’t

[SalouClaret]

It didn’t

I'd stop typing if I was you mate, you're making yourself look a bit silly.

[mybloodisclaret]

I thought we used Ai Scout who Mr Pace had something to do with? I may be completely wrong.

[Rileybobs]

It's possible.

But realistically Kompany is a very rich man. He spent multiple seasons on an eight figure salary and he could do that again if his managerial career is successful and he ends up at Man City. Is he going to endanger his ambition in order to get a bit of commission on a player sale?

Hopefully not. Although a commission on a £30m sale could be rather substantial couldn’t it. I also presume Kompany’s ambition extends to his business interests. But in any case, Kompany’s wealth or morals don’t negate the fact that there is a conflict of interest.

[Jakubclaret]

It's possible.

But realistically Kompany is a very rich man. He spent multiple seasons on an eight figure salary and he could do that again if his managerial career is successful and he ends up at Man City. Is he going to endanger his ambition in order to get a bit of commission on a player sale?

If this seasons anything to go by I think it's safe for him to forget any man city ambitions. You've started my morning off with a chuckle there.

[evensteadiereddie]

Early days yet.
One tremendous season, one not.
I'll judge him on the next one.

[claptrappers_union]

Early days yet.
One tremendous season, one not.
I'll judge him on the next one.

Here's a choice of adjectives you could've used instead of 'not'

poor, bad, substandard, mediocre, abysmal, atrocious, awful, terrible, dreadful, unsatisfactory, dismal, shoddy, deplorable, pitiful, inadequate, egregious, wretched, appalling, execrable, dissatisfactory, rotten, defective, cheap, deficient, inferior, lacking, disappointing, faulty, lousy, ordinary, sad, trashy, lamentable, insufficient, crude, unacceptable, miserable, rubbish, crummy, suboptimal, shabby, subpar, abject, weak, rubbishy, jerry-built, less-than-stellar, low-grade, second-rate, third-rate, worthless, pathetic, vile, horrible, horrid, insignificant, horrendous, unexceptional, boring, useless, dull, ugly, woeful, unremarkable, common, dire, unimpressive, normal, loathsome, disgusting, unexciting, odious, abominable, paltry, laughable, uninspiring, shameful, usual, regular, tame, shocking, unpleasant, ineffectual, offensive, lackluster, unimportant, unamazing, commonplace, middling disgraceful, unspeakable, lackluster, expected, frightful, typical, run-of-the-mill, stupid, godawful, very bad, flat, bland, objectionable, alarming, inconsequential, distasteful, vapid, harrowing, nasty, prosaic, hellacious, trivial, insipid, depressing, distressing, credible, abhorrent, humdrum, detestable, undistinguished, unskillful, unskilled, incapable, hopeless, stinking, gross, incompetent, tiny, inept, low, uninteresting, beastly, drab, unproficient, lifeless, amateurish, uninspired, inexpert, unfit, unqualified, unmemorable, half-pie, hideous, low-quality, disastrous, poor-quality, cruddy, diabolical, lame, garbage, rough, unnoteworthy, contemptible, below par, (not good), poor quality, no great shakes, unspectacular, gloomy, natural, real, genuine, loathly, untidy, messy, awe-inspiring, dread, grotty, disgustful, nauseating, foul, tough, nauseous, unworthy, ignorant, tedious, empty, futile, very unpleasant, mundane, unproductive, wasted, meaningless, bogus, inutile, pointless, valueless, trifling, hollow, nugatory, profitless, barren, counterproductive, unusable, unprofitable, inapt, unavailing, unessential, bodger, unskilful, unnotable, unnoticeable, blah, inadept, mind-numbing, dreary, trite, chaotic, confused, punk, duff, poxy, despicable, shambolic, unable, humble, unrefined, homely, all-over-the-place, aweless, stale, customary, wearisome, not up to scratch, not up to par, damnable, not up to snuff, sub-par, junky, schlocky, dulled, irremediable, not the best, reprehensible, sucky, indefensible, stinky, under par, tawdry, ignominious, ignoble, helpless, strengthless, inefficient, hapless, feeble, spiritless, inproficient, outrageous, insubstantial, apathetic, untrained, awkward, lurid, obscene, gruesome, mean, imperfect, cut-rate, slipshod, impaired, flawed, meager, inexperienced, unapt, amateur, bungling, tragic, obnoxious, wicked, wishy-washy, under-strength, below standard, grim, fearful, horrific, creepy, grisly, predictable, forbidding, ghastly, horrifying, direful, gnarly, repugnant, grewsome, calamitous, revolting, terrifying, disagreeable, frightening, fearsome, macabre, hair-raising, like death warmed up.

[Nori1958]

Here's a choice of adjectives you could've used instead of 'not'

poor, bad, substandard, mediocre, abysmal, atrocious, awful, terrible, dreadful, unsatisfactory, dismal, shoddy, deplorable, pitiful, inadequate, egregious, wretched, appalling, execrable, dissatisfactory, rotten, defective, cheap, deficient, inferior, lacking, disappointing, faulty, lousy, ordinary, sad, trashy, lamentable, insufficient, crude, unacceptable, miserable, rubbish, crummy, suboptimal, shabby, subpar, abject, weak, rubbishy, jerry-built, less-than-stellar, low-grade, second-rate, third-rate, worthless, pathetic, vile, horrible, horrid, insignificant, horrendous, unexceptional, boring, useless, dull, ugly, woeful, unremarkable, common, dire, unimpressive, normal, loathsome, disgusting, unexciting, odious, abominable, paltry, laughable, uninspiring, shameful, usual, regular, tame, shocking, unpleasant, ineffectual, offensive, lackluster, unimportant, unamazing, commonplace, middling disgraceful, unspeakable, lackluster, expected, frightful, typical, run-of-the-mill, stupid, godawful, very bad, flat, bland, objectionable, alarming, inconsequential, distasteful, vapid, harrowing, nasty, prosaic, hellacious, trivial, insipid, depressing, distressing, credible, abhorrent, humdrum, detestable, undistinguished, unskillful, unskilled, incapable, hopeless, stinking, gross, incompetent, tiny, inept, low, uninteresting, beastly, drab, unproficient, lifeless, amateurish, uninspired, inexpert, unfit, unqualified, unmemorable, half-pie, hideous, low-quality, disastrous, poor-quality, cruddy, diabolical, lame, garbage, rough, unnoteworthy, contemptible, below par, (not good), poor quality, no great shakes, unspectacular, gloomy, natural, real, genuine, loathly, untidy, messy, awe-inspiring, dread, grotty, disgustful, nauseating, foul, tough, nauseous, unworthy, ignorant, tedious, empty, futile, very unpleasant, mundane, unproductive, wasted, meaningless, bogus, inutile, pointless, valueless, trifling, hollow, nugatory, profitless, barren, counterproductive, unusable, unprofitable, inapt, unavailing, unessential, bodger, unskilful, unnotable, unnoticeable, blah, inadept, mind-numbing, dreary, trite, chaotic, confused, punk, duff, poxy, despicable, shambolic, unable, humble, unrefined, homely, all-over-the-place, aweless, stale, customary, wearisome, not up to scratch, not up to par, damnable, not up to snuff, sub-par, junky, schlocky, dulled, irremediable, not the best, reprehensible, sucky, indefensible, stinky, under par, tawdry, ignominious, ignoble, helpless, strengthless, inefficient, hapless, feeble, spiritless, inproficient, outrageous, insubstantial, apathetic, untrained, awkward, lurid, obscene, gruesome, mean, imperfect, cut-rate, slipshod, impaired, flawed, meager, inexperienced, unapt, amateur, bungling, tragic, obnoxious, wicked, wishy-washy, under-strength, below standard, grim, fearful, horrific, creepy, grisly, predictable, forbidding, ghastly, horrifying, direful, gnarly, repugnant, grewsome, calamitous, revolting, terrifying, disagreeable, frightening, fearsome, macabre, hair-raising, like death warmed up.

Obviously feeling like that you don't put yourself through it on a match day

[South West Claret.]

Apparently in charge of our recruitment, also happens to be VK’s business with Lee Mooney who was at city previously.

Something doesn’t sit right with this for me. Conflict of interest maybe.

Mud, what a strange name for a organisation

[Tall Paul]

Mud, what a strange name for a organisation

Making Unbiased Decisions

[FCBurnley]

Made Up Data

[spt_claret]

League position is completely relevant, the threads to ‘suggest’ kompany could be gaining financially from signings are only coming to light due to our poor performance on the pitch.

Had we won 2-0 at the weekend and sitting on 31 points like Bournemouth are there wouldn’t be a thread about the way the recruitment is being done and who’s company it is and if players are being housed in houses kompany owns, that’s the point I’m making.

Not saying you personally think kompany is gaining financially

I don't even necessarily think it HAS caused any problems but it is the definition of a conflict of interest. I didn't know we were using MUD last year, or I would have wanted to hear more on that even when things were going well, but ultimately a well managed conflict of interest avoids problems arising or the perception of problems and results in success for all regardless of vested interests. It is possible to manage a conflict of interest fine for all. But it's natural that if something isn't working, people will question how that conflict of interest is being managed- doesn't mean it's being managed wrongly or badly or that anything is untoward but of course people ask more.

And if the league position was fine and people brought it up, people would say "Why do you care we're doing fine there's clearly no issue" (which would be self evident, as club performance would be working so objectives all in alignment)
This is a CONSTANT tactic on here now.
Things are bad - "You're only saying that because things are bad, stop kicking the club while it's down"
Things are good- "You just need something to complain about, stop moaning and enjoy it".
Saw it last season. I and others were shouted down for any concerns about the Academy downgrade or financial transparency then as looking to moan, we're shouted down for it now as getting our digs in or waiting for this.
Just because you don't want or care about answers doesn't give you the right to demand other people stop asking questions. There's so much effort spent by certain posters to either belittle/shout down critics of things under ALK, or just plain silence anything they don't want to hear. There's plenty of posts I don't like, I couldn't give a toss about 99.9% of the politics/news threads to here I'm here to talk football, but I don't wade in to those threads trying to silence them.

It’s like people on another thread now questioning Alan pace is dress code in directors box, it didn’t bother anyone last season when everything was going well

Strawman. Not everyone is making a big deal of both, you know that. I couldn't give a toss how Pace dresses I'd be the last person in the world to criticise someone for a non-corporate fashion sense. Same as I don't personally care if he's shaking hands in the fanzone, tweeting his thoughts weekly, or attending matches or not- those are empty gestures of PR- but I appreciate that some people DO care, and that some community groups and fan groups have felt snubbed or ignored this season so I won't dismiss that as boo-boys, or trot out "it's his club he can do what he wants" - which I'm seeing more & more on here and feels extremely alien to not just English football culture but Burnley FC's culture. Football clubs are community assets & cultural hubs, Burnley matters to the town's economy as well as its culture, the idea that Pace can just do as he pleases is wrong to me, as it is regarding ANY football club. They're not a conventional business, ignoring that's a very Americanised view of sport & community, people have the right to want answers whether it's on the finances, potential conflicts of interest, the on-pitch situation etc. I'm not even saying I think Pace IS aloof, just the idea that people can't ask questions or expect anything from him, feels wrong to me. But I don't care how he dresses and let's not conflate that non-issue with this.

[randomclaret2]

Making Unbiased Decisions

Multiple Useless Defenders

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Men under duress

[Chester Perry]

must say that the adeola Friday input on this thread is far more preferable to the bickering

[Casper2]

Murics utter demise

[JohnMcGreal]

Milking Us Dry

(hopefully not)

[blatherwickstattoos]

Who was in charge of recruitment last season?

ICF recruitment by all accounts . Not Mud

[Quickenthetempo]

ICF recruitment by all accounts . Not Mud

West Ham old boys? No wonder we had more fight last season.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Haha great typo by myself there cas is running things

[aggi]

ICF recruitment by all accounts . Not Mud

It's an interesting distinction. Lee Mooney was definitely at Burnley and involved in board level discussions about transfer strategy.

ISF (I assume that's who you mean) are a data and scouting agency, they would be supporting recruitment, not in charge.

[blatherwickstattoos]

It's an interesting distinction. Lee Mooney was definitely at Burnley and involved in board level discussions about transfer strategy.

ISF (I assume that's who you mean) are a data and scouting agency, they would be supporting recruitment, not in charge.

Someone commented earlier in the thread that MUD only became active with us in August 2023. I would love clarification on this tbh. The whole money ball plan that was eluded to in mission to Burnley was definitely at the front of Alan pace and kompanys vision. Maybe to the detriment of the football club in the long run. It’s certainly not the way forward in the toughest league in the world anyway as this season has proven .

[evensteadiereddie]

Here's a choice of adjectives you could've used instead of 'not'

poor, bad, substandard, mediocre, abysmal, atrocious, awful, terrible, dreadful, unsatisfactory, dismal, shoddy, deplorable, pitiful, inadequate, egregious, wretched, appalling, execrable, dissatisfactory, rotten, defective, cheap, deficient, inferior, lacking, disappointing, faulty, lousy, ordinary, sad, trashy, lamentable, insufficient, crude, unacceptable, miserable, rubbish, crummy, suboptimal, shabby, subpar, abject, weak, rubbishy, jerry-built, less-than-stellar, low-grade, second-rate, third-rate, worthless, pathetic, vile, horrible, horrid, insignificant, horrendous, unexceptional, boring, useless, dull, ugly, woeful, unremarkable, common, dire, unimpressive, normal, loathsome, disgusting, unexciting, odious, abominable, paltry, laughable, uninspiring, shameful, usual, regular, tame, shocking, unpleasant, ineffectual, offensive, lackluster, unimportant, unamazing, commonplace, middling disgraceful, unspeakable, lackluster, expected, frightful, typical, run-of-the-mill, stupid, godawful, very bad, flat, bland, objectionable, alarming, inconsequential, distasteful, vapid, harrowing, nasty, prosaic, hellacious, trivial, insipid, depressing, distressing, credible, abhorrent, humdrum, detestable, undistinguished, unskillful, unskilled, incapable, hopeless, stinking, gross, incompetent, tiny, inept, low, uninteresting, beastly, drab, unproficient, lifeless, amateurish, uninspired, inexpert, unfit, unqualified, unmemorable, half-pie, hideous, low-quality, disastrous, poor-quality, cruddy, diabolical, lame, garbage, rough, unnoteworthy, contemptible, below par, (not good), poor quality, no great shakes, unspectacular, gloomy, natural, real, genuine, loathly, untidy, messy, awe-inspiring, dread, grotty, disgustful, nauseating, foul, tough, nauseous, unworthy, ignorant, tedious, empty, futile, very unpleasant, mundane, unproductive, wasted, meaningless, bogus, inutile, pointless, valueless, trifling, hollow, nugatory, profitless, barren, counterproductive, unusable, unprofitable, inapt, unavailing, unessential, bodger, unskilful, unnotable, unnoticeable, blah, inadept, mind-numbing, dreary, trite, chaotic, confused, punk, duff, poxy, despicable, shambolic, unable, humble, unrefined, homely, all-over-the-place, aweless, stale, customary, wearisome, not up to scratch, not up to par, damnable, not up to snuff, sub-par, junky, schlocky, dulled, irremediable, not the best, reprehensible, sucky, indefensible, stinky, under par, tawdry, ignominious, ignoble, helpless, strengthless, inefficient, hapless, feeble, spiritless, inproficient, outrageous, insubstantial, apathetic, untrained, awkward, lurid, obscene, gruesome, mean, imperfect, cut-rate, slipshod, impaired, flawed, meager, inexperienced, unapt, amateur, bungling, tragic, obnoxious, wicked, wishy-washy, under-strength, below standard, grim, fearful, horrific, creepy, grisly, predictable, forbidding, ghastly, horrifying, direful, gnarly, repugnant, grewsome, calamitous, revolting, terrifying, disagreeable, frightening, fearsome, macabre, hair-raising, like death warmed up.

Well, if its my sense of perspective that's wrong, I'm delighted.
I can't be bothered to read through them all but if it's there I'd select "disappointing". That's it.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Someone commented earlier in the thread that MUD only became active with us in August 2023. I would love clarification on this tbh. The whole money ball plan that was eluded to in mission to Burnley was definitely at the front of Alan pace and kompanys vision. Maybe to the detriment of the football club in the long run. It’s certainly not the way forward in the toughest league in the world anyway as this season has proven .

They've absolutely proved to themselves that that approach doesn't work so maybe next time they will just build a team normally like its been done for 100 years or so. Buying a central midfielder that can pick a pass would be a step forward.

[blatherwickstattoos]

They've absolutely proved to themselves that that approach doesn't work so maybe next time they will just build a team normally like its been done for 100 years or so. Buying a central midfiedler that can pick a pass would be a step forward.

Indeed , but I won’t hold my breath

[Nori1958]

Several on here take note

Must Use Durex

[Paul Waine]

Obviously Pace knows, that isn’t the point. And I don’t think anybody has a problem with Kompany being a director of as many companies as he wants - that’s not the issue.

What is the issue, Rileybobs? There's one thing we can all be certain of, Alan Pace and all the other ALK directors and the other VSP investors in the club won't have set things up with Vincent Kompany in a way that the club will lose out.

[blatherwickstattoos]

What is the issue, Rileybobs? There's one thing we can all be certain of, Alan Pace and all the other ALK directors and the other VSP investors in the club won't have set things up with Vincent Kompany in a way that the club will lose out.

A few chairman new to game didn’t know about relegation from the premier league. So anything is possible.

[aggi]

Someone commented earlier in the thread that MUD only became active with us in August 2023. I would love clarification on this tbh. The whole money ball plan that was eluded to in mission to Burnley was definitely at the front of Alan pace and kompanys vision. Maybe to the detriment of the football club in the long run. It’s certainly not the way forward in the toughest league in the world anyway as this season has proven .

Lee Mooney was in a lot of the Mission to Burnley stuff so was obviously involved before August 2023.

I don't think Burnley are really doing anything different, they're just doing it badly.

[Vim Fuego]

Two of the opening 3 responses (and others of an immature nature) to the OP are typical of what you get/got if you express any concerns about what is going on at our club. Last season, these concern(s) (plural) clearly still existed, but were just more easily supressed

Why on earth would anyone not be concerned about this? Especially when you clock the odd persistence with some of the team selections

[Paul Waine]

Well, if its my sense of perspective that's wrong, I'm delighted.
I can't be bothered to read through them all but if it's there I'd select "disappointing". That's it.

Hi eddie, "disappointing" is in there. Like you, I haven't read or counted all the words listed. "disappointed" appears earlier rather than later in the assortment.

[Paul Waine]

A few chairman new to game didn’t know about relegation from the premier league. So anything is possible.

Alan Pace spent part of his adult life working in London. His father was a LDS missionary in Lancashire. Alan Pace isn't that "new to the game."

[blatherwickstattoos]

Alan Pace spent part of his adult life working in London. His father was a LDS missionary in Lancashire. Alan Pace isn't that "new to the game."

How many football clubs has he ran before this? I’m in need of an lsd missionary after this season

[Paul Waine]

How many football clubs has he ran before this? I’m in need of an lsd missionary after this season

He was involved at Salt Lake City, but obviously not "running" that club.

If you can get the money together, whether all your own money, or you can lead a broader group of investors, then you only need to lead one football club. Barry Kilby, Mike Garlick, Bob Lord none of them had run a football club before they ran Burnley FC.

[blatherwickstattoos]

He was involved at Salt Lake City, but obviously not "running" that club.

If you can get the money together, whether all your own money, or you can lead a broader group of investors, then you only need to lead one football club. Barry Kilby, Mike Garlick, Bob Lord none of them had run a football club before they ran Burnley FC.

But they all had knowledge of the game ,the locals and the area.

[Vim Fuego]

Alan Pace spent part of his adult life working in London. His father was a LDS missionary in Lancashire. Alan Pace isn't that "new to the game."

I like reading your posts Paul and understand why you mention it, but I'm just not sure his father being a Mormon missionary in Lancs is a related positive. Some may view it as a negative in terms of understanding how a football community clicks

[blatherwickstattoos]

Exactly… maybe Alan pace’s naivety in these areas are actually a catalyst as to to why Vincent kompany is allowed to be both manager and be a director of a business that runs our recruitment for the same club.

[jrgbfc]

After last summer's disaster I wouldn't mind seeing us employ an experienced Director of football to work with Kompany. Feels like he's got far too much control at present, with Pace and co still seemingly in awe of him.