McNeil & O’Hare

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Nonayforever
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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Nonayforever » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:12 am

If Pace decides to sell McNeil for any fee I think that will demonstrate his lack of knowledge of football in general.
If he sells him for around the £10m mark I think that also demonstrates his lack of business acumen.
McNeil, whether you like him or not, is a genuine PL player.
If we have any aspirations of achieving promotion we will need a squad of players like him.
If Pace thinks appointing Kompany as manager and buying league 1 players will produce a PL squad within a season or two, then Pace is seriously deluded.
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FCBurnley
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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by FCBurnley » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:15 am

Surely the question is ‘ if we sell him for 10 million can we buy a better player to replace him’. Not a chance is my reply.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:17 am

Nori1958 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:03 am
His contract is coming to an end, hence the low price

What went badly wrong with tarks? He went from 30m to free... It happens
He went from £30m to free and went to a bigger progressive club. He wasn't linked with clubs in Europe, and ended up in a cut price deal going to a championship side..... see the difference?

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by taio » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:20 am

louieollie wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:12 am
I see what you are saying about the owner and Pope but wouldn't it be a different scenario with McNeil and his position/age maybe 🤔. I'd be hoping on at least £20m should McNeil be sold.
I made it clear the scenario between Pope and McNeil would be different but it's all we have to go off, and in the eyes of many the Pope fee was too low. I hope McNeil stays but if he is sold we get at least £20m, but I think the club would sell for less at up to £15m.
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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:21 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:15 am
Surely the question is ‘ if we sell him for 10 million can we buy a better player to replace him’. Not a chance is my reply.
This is the crux of it for me, no idea if O'Hare is an improvement or not, or how much he'd cost,

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Nori1958 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:25 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:17 am
He went from £30m to free and went to a bigger progressive club. He wasn't linked with clubs in Europe, and ended up in a cut price deal going to a championship side..... see the difference?
No.
I doubt Tarks would have gone to Everton 2 years ago.

Both were touted with high transfer fees when they had long contracts

Both decreased in value as their contracts got shorter, it's the reason why pope didn't go for 20m

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by ClaretMov » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:30 am

O'hare, his stats for the past two season's are quite good, 5 goals and 8 assists in each, I could imagine Coventry wanting around 6 million

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by JimmyRobbo » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:50 am

There really is very little to get excited about. Really simple. Does he actively wish to leave? If not then we keep him.

Long contract, English, always fit and plenty of talent for the prem so he's only going to go up in value for the next few years. Look after him and help him develop.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:00 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:25 am
No.
I doubt Tarks would have gone to Everton 2 years ago.

Both were touted with high transfer fees when they had long contracts

Both decreased in value as their contracts got shorter, it's the reason why pope didn't go for 20m
We did still have two years with Pope but I agree that values drop as the end of contract date moves closer. I’m still very surprised though how low the Pope deal was.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by bf2k » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:04 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:52 am
Understand other clubs may not value him at that - that’s fine, they don’t pay it and we keep him! It’s like Declan Rice being ‘valued’ at 150m by West Ham, no way on earth should he be, but that’s what he’s worth for them to keep.
Nail on head. Who cares what West Spam value him at. He’s our player under contract so pay what we value him at.

I think we’ve let Pope go on the cheap to be honest.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by bfcjg » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:05 pm

I agree re Pope, the fee is a joke unless there are some serious add ons that we don't know about.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by cblantfanclub » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:06 pm

Nonaynever -

"If Pace decides to sell McNeil for any fee I think that will demonstrate his lack of knowledge of football in general.
If he sells him for around the £10m mark I think that also demonstrates his lack of business acumen.
McNeil, whether you like him or not, is a genuine PL player.
If we have any aspirations of achieving promotion we will need a squad of players like him.
If Pace thinks appointing Kompany as manager and buying league 1 players will produce a PL squad within a season or two, then Pace is seriously deluded."

Who's running this tea machine? "Pace, Pace, Pace" - maybe the manager he's appointed at great cost will have some say as well. Pace openly admits his shortcomings in football knowledge. I don't know but I'd be surprised if the conversation went along the lines of, "sell who you want and I'll pick up the pieces, by the way here's a few cheap young un's to fill the gaps".

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Nori1958 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:00 pm
We did still have two years with Pope but I agree that values drop as the end of contract date moves closer. I’m still very surprised though how low the Pope deal was.
Did we have 2yrs with pope, or was it in his favour? I've heard both

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by JohnMac » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:11 pm

He is a victim (like several of our players) of being 'skinned' by the likes of Mo Salah, Riyad Mahrez, Hudson-Odoi etc and accused of not trying. There is a reason many Premier League players are Internationals and why we have to accept our limitations.

He has a skill set that will be better suited to us than others next season but should he go elsewhere a bit of a hard ball approach is required to get his market value.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Top Claret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:16 pm

We must hang onto to the likes of McNeil, Collins, Brownhill and Roberts if we want a quick premier League return.
We will struggle to build a promotion side with former League 1 and premium League academy players, we need experience at this and a higher level
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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:18 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:09 pm
Did we have 2yrs with pope, or was it in his favour? I've heard both
I’m sure it was reported at the time that it was in the club’s favour.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Jambounchained » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:18 pm

Mate is a Cov fan he rates O’Hare highly - says he’s their best player.

Most fouled player in the Championship last season as well.

Only criticism is that he doesn’t score enough goals.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:23 pm

I’m a bit uncomfortable reading these threads and seeing several abusive descriptions of the Chairman, often in hypothetical scenarios like if we sell McNeil for ‘x’ it means he is deluded.

We know so little of what goes on, what promises have been made. Online abuse is wrong even if we do know the facts, but frankly, we don’t. Let’s ease off the Pace bashing. He’s doing his best I’m guessing, and maximising shareholder value may be good for the fans too.

I’ll simply stick to hoping we don’t sell Dwight because his best years are ahead of him.
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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Papabendi » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:44 pm

O'Neil probably isn't worth £10m right now.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:09 pm

I think our financial position after relegation, albeit now mitigated, if any substantial offers come in for our players then we will sell. This is what relegation looks like when you are also in dept. Hopefully the chairman has allowed the manager to plan for some replacements, but then it will be essential that these players are transferred sooner rather than the last few days.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Nonayforever » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:16 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:23 pm
I’m a bit uncomfortable reading these threads and seeing several abusive descriptions of the Chairman, often in hypothetical scenarios like if we sell McNeil for ‘x’ it means he is deluded.
I didn't say if he sells McNeil he is deluded. I said if he thinks he can produce a PL team from a squad of league 1 players then he is deluded. There's a huge difference.
To have a PL team you need players of PL standard.
A good manager can make a good player better that doesn't mean he can turn the whole squad into PL players.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Spijed » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:19 pm

If he isn't as good as some say then why is there still interest in him from some PL clubs?

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Bigvince » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:30 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:44 pm
O'Neil probably isn't worth £10m right now.
McNeil might be worth more though🤔

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:33 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:16 pm
I didn't say if he sells McNeil he is deluded. I said if he thinks he can produce a PL team from a squad of league 1 players then he is deluded. There's a huge difference.
To have a PL team you need players of PL standard.
A good manager can make a good player better that doesn't mean he can turn the whole squad into PL players.
Didn't Leeds get promoted to the PL with players that they'd mainly signed from league 1?

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:42 pm

Callum O’Hare looks a real talent tbf - I don’t rate McNeil that highly but think with a new lease of life in the Championship would be an excellent player for us.

Maybe VK doesn’t think Dwight suits his system so much — who knows?

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:42 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:05 pm
I agree re Pope, the fee is a joke unless there are some serious add ons that we don't know about.
We don't know about any of it, including the fee. It was undisclosed.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Ric_C » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:59 pm

O'Hare looks like a budget Jack Grealish type of player. Would be a good addition but would certainly want to keep McNeil at all costs

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Spijed » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:33 pm
Didn't Leeds get promoted to the PL with players that they'd mainly signed from league 1?
I suppose like us the sum of their parts was far better than individual players.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by buzzclarets79 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:46 pm

Actually think the club need to reject any bids for McNeil regardless of amount.
Under SD it’s obvious his attacking movement was curtailed, asked to fit the framework and track back. Possibly now he can be released to look forward and better affect the final third, a good season in the championship with goals and assists would only increase his value and his skills should be much more used in this team than the team that went down, and could get us back up, which everyone knows is worth much more than 10m.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by alwaysaclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:13 pm

It just may be that kompany feels he wants a complete clear out of the dyche way of football, and he may feel that 10m constitutes good business, if this is the case, it may just prove a slice of undoing, just a thought and another slant on things.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:44 pm

Jambounchained wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:18 pm
Mate is a Cov fan he rates O’Hare highly - says he’s their best player.

Most fouled player in the Championship last season as well.

Only criticism is that he doesn’t score enough goals.
He's Fernando Guerrero level then
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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:47 pm

alwaysaclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:13 pm
It just may be that kompany feels he wants a complete clear out of the dyche way of football, and he may feel that 10m constitutes good business, if this is the case, it may just prove a slice of undoing, just a thought and another slant on things.
If Kompany wanted a clear out of the 'Dyche way of football' he'd have let Barnes go before McNeil.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by bfcjg » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:51 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:47 pm
If Kompany wanted a clear out of the 'Dyche way of football' he'd have let Barnes go before McNeil.
Barnes extended his stay as was his right as it was in his contract. He should have been sacked for the drink driving if that was legally possible.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Nonayforever » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:56 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:47 pm
If Kompany wanted a clear out of the 'Dyche way of football' he'd have let Barnes go before McNeil.
But if Kompany wants a "box" finisher then there won't be many better than Barnes in the Championship.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:00 pm

alwaysaclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:13 pm
It just may be that kompany feels he wants a complete clear out of the dyche way of football, and he may feel that 10m constitutes good business, if this is the case, it may just prove a slice of undoing, just a thought and another slant on things.
I'm sure there will be a complete clear out in time, but Kompany can't simply jettison the entire squad in a single window, as that would prove virtually impossible to achieve, so it needs to be done in stages.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:03 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:56 pm
But if Kompany wants a "box" finisher then there won't be many better than Barnes in the Championship.
Is that based on something other than his scoring record?
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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:06 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:51 pm
Barnes extended his stay as was his right as it was in his contract. He should have been sacked for the drink driving if that was legally possible.
Leave him be.........he's alright is our Ash!
He'll get some goals this year ...if he gets the chance to play.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Damo » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:38 pm

We don't need to accept 10-15 million because that's all anyone is willing to offer. It's quite feasible that we keep him and tell anyone looking for a bargain to clear off

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by vancouverclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:42 pm

I watched a couple of Coventry games last season O'Hare looked really good, he was the stand out player. We should try and keep Mc Neil

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by LaLigaClaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:05 pm

We would benefit from having both at the Turf. I'm sure McNeil will be a great asset for us in the Championship.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by alwaysaclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:14 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:00 pm
I'm sure there will be a complete clear out in time, but Kompany can't simply jettison the entire squad in a single window, as that would prove virtually impossible to achieve, so it needs to be done in stages.
I've a sneaky feeling he might just be doing he's best to clear them all out though

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:22 pm

alwaysaclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:14 pm
I've a sneaky feeling he might just be doing he's best to clear them all out though
Well if that's his plan then fine, but he'll need to ensure the replacements are of an adequate standard to allow us to compete.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Funkydrummer » Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:18 pm

I got confused with Mulligan and O'Hare.



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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by bfcmik » Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:30 pm

It Is What It Is wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:02 am
If McNeil was sold same time as Woods, there would be plenty of bidders at the £20-25m mark. He was an established Prem League player and in decent form.
Relegation, loss of a bit of form and 6 months later, £12 is about right.
I'll give the club £13 to keep him then :lol:

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by alwaysaclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:03 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:22 pm
Well if that's his plan then fine, but he'll need to ensure the replacements are of an adequate standard to allow us to compete.
One would hope so, but no guarantees. Fingers crossed.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by warksclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:04 pm

I may be wrong but I suspect McNeil would prefer to stay in the north westt

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by claretspice » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:21 pm

Its been an observable trend that in recent years, doing quite well in the lower half of the Premier League over a couple of seasons has become seen as less valuable/driving of transfer value than having one or tops two stand out seasons in the Championship.

If McNeil goes for less than £20m, despite the stats he's recorded over the last 4 seasons in the Premier League (compare them to just about any 22 year old who has played 100 games in one of Europe's top leagues in that time), then it'll be further confirmation of that trend. It's easier to stand out and attract headlines as the brightest star in a dull constellation than it is as a star that burns bright enough but in a galaxy full of the biggest, brightest stars in the universe.

If McNeil stays with us, then hopefully that same logic will mean he's worth a good deal more next summer. The only unknown is his contract situation, which may not be as favourable as we hope and may itself drive discussions about a sale this summer. But in this world, he's worth way more than £10m.
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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by Burnley1989 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:31 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:51 pm
Barnes extended his stay as was his right as it was in his contract. He should have been sacked for the drink driving if that was legally possible.
No he shouldn’t, let it go man

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by spt_claret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:38 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:25 am
I’d personally be doing everything to keep McNeil if we are serious about promotion, as I believe he’ll be the best attacking player in the division. 20-25m I’d be asking for (might not be WORTH that in the market but for us he is).
Completely agree. He's had a rough 18-20 months but he is very clearly a quality player. I'm not convinced he can do the inverted winger role that effectively- yes he played it towards the end of the season just gone but despite looking more invigorated his output didn't much change- but what he can be is a very effective classical winger, and at Championship level a classical winger can still tear teams to shreds.And for his first 18 months Dwight tore teams to shreds in that role in the Premier League.
I'd like to keep him and Cornet, but if I could only keep one, I'd pick McNeil. I think as talented as Cornet is he's more mercurial, hard to fit into a system- McNeil has for me one role he can do very well, and a couple of roles he can clearly deputise in (I'd still like to see him as a De Bruyne style central/narrow creative playmaker). Whether other clubs value him the same or not is irrelevant- his value to Burnley is huge.

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Re: McNeil & O’Hare

Post by quoonbeatz » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:45 pm

I'd rather keep our best players, of which McNeil is certainly one.

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