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ClaretMov
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Left back

Post by ClaretMov » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:49 am

I know it's early days in the transfer window but I'm surprised we a haven't been linked with any left backs yet with Taylor being the only one at the club, its probably our weakest position at the moment.

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Re: Left back

Post by Pearcey » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:50 am

Maybe VK wants to look at Dodgson.

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Re: Left back

Post by Boss Hogg » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:55 am

Can any of these young lads signed cover at LB ?

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Re: Left back

Post by warksclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:56 am

I think several of last year's squad will come under scrutiny under VK, to evaluate their effectiveness in the new line up. I think Charlie will be one of these alongside Barnes, Jay, Long ,Westwood when fit, and possibly Brownhill. Charlie is not helped by being so one footed.We definitely need a left back cover, or maybe even a starter. Charlie has also an injury tendancy which is why Pieters played the games he did,

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Re: Left back

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:31 am

Has Buchanans situation at derby been resolved yet? If not that’s who I’d be looking at

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Re: Left back

Post by Pearcey » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:33 am

I’d be hoping that we have Taylor as first choice and a decent youngster as back up.
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Re: Left back

Post by Selby Claret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:33 am

Taylor and Cornet
What’s the problem…. ;)

Burnley1989
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Re: Left back

Post by Burnley1989 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:35 am

Taylor is the best LB in the championship in my opinion

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Re: Left back

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:37 am

Pearcey wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:50 am
Maybe VK wants to look at Dodgson.
I suspect this is the case, he seems to be highly rated

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Re: Left back

Post by clive40golf » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:42 am

warksclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:56 am
I think several of last year's squad will come under scrutiny under VK, to evaluate their effectiveness in the new line up. I think Charlie will be one of these alongside Barnes, Jay, Long ,Westwood when fit, and possibly Brownhill. Charlie is not helped by being so one footed.We definitely need a left back cover, or maybe even a starter. Charlie has also an injury tendancy which is why Pieters played the games he did,
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, especially cover for the position, I have to disagree about a couple of things. I don’t think Charlie being so one footed as much a hindrance as some other one footed players in the team. In a poor season (results wise) I thought Charlie was one of the stand out players. Some of the last minute interceptions were world class, plus he bombed up and down that wing and made himself available at every opportunity. I’m hoping that along with a couple of others Charlie is one of the first names on the team sheet.
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Re: Left back

Post by alwaysaclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:51 am

clive40golf wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:42 am
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, especially cover for the position, I have to disagree about a couple of things. I don’t think Charlie being so one footed as much a hindrance as some other one footed players in the team. In a poor season (results wise) I thought Charlie was one of the stand out players. Some of the last minute interceptions were world class, plus he bombed up and down that wing and made himself available at every opportunity. I’m hoping that along with a couple of others Charlie is one of the first names on the team sheet.
Interested to know who the couple of others are ? Just asking.

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Re: Left back

Post by clive40golf » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:03 am

I think Roberts (if he stays) pushed up to midfield, with Lowton braking in the new right back. Westwood (when fit) in a more holding position or Cork for his experience and calming influence.
Jrod will still have a part to play as I believe he’s one of the cleverest footballers we have.
I’m sure my choice will be different from other posters, but you did ask😀
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Re: Left back

Post by Tricky Trevor » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:14 pm

clive40golf wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:42 am
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, especially cover for the position, I have to disagree about a couple of things. I don’t think Charlie being so one footed as much a hindrance as some other one footed players in the team. In a poor season (results wise) I thought Charlie was one of the stand out players. Some of the last minute interceptions were world class, plus he bombed up and down that wing and made himself available at every opportunity. I’m hoping that along with a couple of others Charlie is one of the first names on the team sheet.
Agree totally about his excellent defending but his attacking is sub-standard and isn’t helped by being ABSOLUTELY one footed. He can never cut inside to have a pop at goal, as both Roberts and Lowton have done successfully over the last two seasons. He can only overlap, which every FB facing him knows. He is so restrictive on Dwight because he can only overlap, if he went inside occasionally they could make better angles for getting an easier cross in.
By now he should have learned from watching Erik Pieters. How I wish Erik was 10 years younger.

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Re: Left back

Post by Vino blanco » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:21 pm

He will be one of the best left backs, if not the best, in the Championship

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Re: Left back

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:37 pm

Vino blanco wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:21 pm
He will be one of the best left backs, if not the best, in the Championship
He very well might be. Similar to Pope though, I am not sure how Taylor fits into Kompanys tactics.

He likes his wing backs to almost act like wingers and contribute with assists and goals.

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Re: Left back

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:45 pm

With all these centre backs, 3 at the vacancy snd 2 wingback seems like a plan. Could be a different view of what type of wingback. Not least, McNeil.

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Re: Left back

Post by DCWat » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:49 pm

clive40golf wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:42 am
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, especially cover for the position, I have to disagree about a couple of things. I don’t think Charlie being so one footed as much a hindrance as some other one footed players in the team. In a poor season (results wise) I thought Charlie was one of the stand out players. Some of the last minute interceptions were world class, plus he bombed up and down that wing and made himself available at every opportunity. I’m hoping that along with a couple of others Charlie is one of the first names on the team sheet.
I like Taylor and think he will be fine for this season. I don’t think that he was anywhere near his usual standard last season though.

There were some good bits in and amongst but I thought we looked pretty vulnerable at left back for much of the season. A lot of our issues came down that flank. Not all Taylor’s fault of course.

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Re: Left back

Post by MDWat » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:54 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:37 pm
He very well might be. Similar to Pope though, I am not sure how Taylor fits into Kompanys tactics.

He likes his wing backs to almost act like wingers and contribute with assists and goals.
He was way more productive in the Leeds Championship side

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Re: Left back

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:57 pm

MDWat wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:54 pm
He was way more productive in the Leeds Championship side
I would argue slightly more productive his best season was 39 games 1 goal and 4 assists.

When I compare it to Anderlechts left back he scored 6 and got 11 assists

Taylor would have to dramatically improve his output of Kompany were to play him

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Re: Left back

Post by warksclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:04 pm

Good coaches can make a difference, particularly when you have a player, like Taylor, who has good aspects to his game. I suspect Taylor has had little coaching in the past 4 or 5 years other than keeping his shape in defence. I heard Matty Cash of Villa interviewed a few months ago, and he was saying how much he had benefitted from the coaching he was now getting from Gerrard & McAllister. They were always analising his performance after every game (in a positive way of course).Things like when to attack, the ideal time to make a cross, and generally improving his final delivery, and of course defending better. I think todays Cash is a very exciting and complete right back. His assists,goals and generally play and positioning went up noticeably in the last 2-3 months . Coaching is an area that I firmly believe will improve in the Burnley team under the new managers and coaches. We have read countless times how we have missed Tony Loughlan's coaching since he retired, which seemed to coincide with a drop in our performances
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Re: Left back

Post by ClaretFelix » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:39 pm

Hedontplayforyou wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:31 am
Has Buchanans situation at derby been resolved yet? If not that’s who I’d be looking at
Moving to Werder Bremen, along with Ollie Burke

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Re: Left back

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:55 pm

ClaretFelix wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:39 pm
Moving to Werder Bremen, along with Ollie Burke
Ollie Burke - he’s gone for a lot of money in deals for someone who’s not very good

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Re: Left back

Post by FCBurnley » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:12 pm

Expect us to play a back 3 so a left sided center back may be a more pressing requirement with Taylor left midfield. We seem to be acquiring center backs. Are any left sided?

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Re: Left back

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:54 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:12 pm
Expect us to play a back 3 so a left sided center back. We seem to be acquiring center backs. Are any left sided?
Ben Mee.


Damn!

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Re: Left back

Post by ashtonlongsider » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:00 pm

Charlie Taylor was the best LB in the Championship when he was at Leeds so with all the years experience since he must certainly be up there. I would say he's integral to us moving forward.

taio
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Re: Left back

Post by taio » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:11 pm

Taylor should certainly be a key player for us next season.

clive40golf
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Re: Left back

Post by clive40golf » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:18 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:14 pm
Agree totally about his excellent defending but his attacking is sub-standard and isn’t helped by being ABSOLUTELY one footed. He can never cut inside to have a pop at goal, as both Roberts and Lowton have done successfully over the last two seasons. He can only overlap, which every FB facing him knows. He is so restrictive on Dwight because he can only overlap, if he went inside occasionally they could make better angles for getting an easier cross in.
By now he should have learned from watching Erik Pieters. How I wish Erik was 10 years younger.
Yes Eric Pieters 10yrs ago would have graced at least half of the premiership teams, no question.
With respect:-
When you mentioned about Dwight I do think the players have the same preference for being totally one footed, and don’t complement each other successfully. Dwight will cut inside, but he’ll either try to get back onto his left side or pass to an overcrowded 18yrd line compressing the play. If you had a two footed midfield player who would give defensive players a quandary as to which way he was going to go that would open up space for Charlie to get more crosses in.
I also think Dwight can get a bit lazy tracking back and sometimes looses his man, leaving Charlie a bit isolated, this leads to him being out of position and having to make last minute tackles (which he’s brilliant at btw).
I have always liked Lowton and think Roberts has some class, but both of them can be guilty of the same thing.
But if any of the players were any better, like Pieters 10 yrs ago, they would be plying their trade at another club

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Re: Left back

Post by fanzone » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:09 pm

Hedontplayforyou wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:31 am
Has Buchanans situation at derby been resolved yet? If not that’s who I’d be looking at
Going to Weder Bremen in Germany according to sky

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Re: Left back

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:31 pm

First of all, how do these one footed players manage to run, walk, or even stand up?

I think Owen Dodgson has a real chance of stepping up this season.

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Re: Left back

Post by TsarBomba » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:01 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:55 pm
Ollie Burke - he’s gone for a lot of money in deals for someone who’s not very good
Burke looked an outstanding prospect when he broke through at Forest.

I remember when he got his big move to Leipzig, then manager Hassenhutl said words to the effect of Burke not having a great deal going on between the ears. He would switch off a lot during games and wasn’t tactically aware.

So far proven to be the case.

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Re: Left back

Post by RVclaret » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:09 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:12 pm
Expect us to play a back 3 so a left sided center back may be a more pressing requirement with Taylor left midfield. We seem to be acquiring center backs. Are any left sided?
You expect us to play a back 3 despite Kompany mainly using a back 4 over the past 3 seasons at Anderlecht? How come?

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Re: Left back

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:14 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:09 pm
You expect us to play a back 3 despite Kompany mainly using a back 4 over the past 3 seasons at Anderlecht? How come?
Bit of a strange concept especially since we played 4 at the back in his first pre season game as well.

There’s not a lot to suggest we will play three at the back

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Re: Left back

Post by Swizzlestick » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:21 pm

ClaretFelix wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:39 pm
Moving to Werder Bremen, along with Ollie Burke
Burke, some agent that lad.

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Re: Left back

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:32 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:01 pm
Burke looked an outstanding prospect when he broke through at Forest.

I remember when he got his big move to Leipzig, then manager Hassenhutl said words to the effect of Burke not having a great deal going on between the ears. He would switch off a lot during games and wasn’t tactically aware.

So far proven to be the case.
And since then he’s been poor. Hadn’t realised who his manager was at Leipzig.

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Re: Left back

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:00 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:57 pm
I would argue slightly more productive his best season was 39 games 1 goal and 4 assists.

When I compare it to Anderlechts left back he scored 6 and got 11 assists

Taylor would have to dramatically improve his output of Kompany were to play him
Kompany's left back at Anderlecht isn't really a left back though, I remember Gomez playing right wing for the Spanish young sides whilst he was at Dortmund.

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Re: Left back

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:02 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:00 pm
Kompany's left back at Anderlecht isn't really a left back though, I remember Gomez playing right wing for the Spanish young sides whilst he was at Dortmund.
Thats what I mean, he uses his wing backs like wingers.

Would you agree?

FCBurnley
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Re: Left back

Post by FCBurnley » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:12 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:14 pm
Bit of a strange concept especially since we played 4 at the back in his first pre season game as well.

There’s not a lot to suggest we will play three at the back
Thought VK was a young manager who would play modern style attacking football similar to Pep. Clearly I am wrong and it will be SD 4-4-2 as usual

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Re: Left back

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:15 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:12 pm
Thought VK was a young manager who would play modern style attacking football similar to Pep. Clearly I am wrong and it will be SD 4-4-2 as usual
4 at the back does not necessarily mean 4-4-2.

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Re: Left back

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:23 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:12 pm
Thought VK was a young manager who would play modern style attacking football similar to Pep. Clearly I am wrong and it will be SD 4-4-2 as usual
He will play an attacking style. That’s a given. But it’s pretty certain it will be with a 4 at the back.

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Re: Left back

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:45 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:23 pm
He will play an attacking style. That’s a given. But it’s pretty certain it will be with a 4 at the back.
Not sure it's certain to be a 4 back

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Re: Left back

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:18 pm

clive40golf wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:42 am
. In a poor season (results wise) I thought Charlie was one of the stand out players.
Really?
He appeared the weak link in our defence on many occasions with poor positional play resulting in us either conceding goals from his flank or when he failed to cut out crosses. We had our best spell when Pieters came in, but unfortunately Pieters got injured.
Don't get me wrong Taylor should be excellent this season, but last season wasn't his best, and I don't think many would describe him as a "stand out".

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Re: Left back

Post by SurreyClaret » Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:49 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:12 pm
Thought VK was a young manager who would play modern style attacking football similar to Pep. Clearly I am wrong and it will be SD 4-4-2 as usual
Reading the tactical articles about VK at Anderlecht, it's a 4-4-2 in defence but a 3-5-2 going forward. In that sense Taylor and Roberts are well suited I would think.

What will confuse many of our supporters is the way they shifted to this formation with the defensive midfielder dropping to the right side of the back 3 in transition. Cullen did this job for them so no surprises he's being linked, but Cork would seem to be a good bet for this role as he has dropped into CB on occasion in his career.

There is far more fluidity in attack to try and confuse rigid teams,so I'm looking forward to all the comments in the ratings thread about how Player X was out of position on numerous occasions! 🤣

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Re: Left back

Post by clive40golf » Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:37 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:18 pm
Really?
He appeared the weak link in our defence on many occasions with poor positional play resulting in us either conceding goals from his flank or when he failed to cut out crosses. We had our best spell when Pieters came in, but unfortunately Pieters got injured.
Don't get me wrong Taylor should be excellent this season, but last season wasn't his best, and I don't think many would describe him as a "stand out".
Not a problem that you disagree, we all look at matches from a different perspective. I thought Pieters was playing well myself although a bit slow (he could have been playing whilst injured we’ll never know), but I preferred Taylor.
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Re: Left back

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:44 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:18 pm
Really?
He appeared the weak link in our defence on many occasions with poor positional play resulting in us either conceding goals from his flank or when he failed to cut out crosses. We had our best spell when Pieters came in, but unfortunately Pieters got injured.
Don't get me wrong Taylor should be excellent this season, but last season wasn't his best, and I don't think many would describe him as a "stand out".
Agreed he was the biggest weak link and probably our worst regular starter. goal after goal after goal all down his side, game after game. Started very early in the season too with 2 down his side against Brighton at home and then followed up with Raphina putting him on his arse at the Turf to equalise at the death. Chelsea home game I'm pretty sure all 4 goals came down his side, Tarkowski at fault for 2. James had him on absolute toast that day

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Re: Left back

Post by clive40golf » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:11 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:44 pm
Agreed he was the biggest weak link and probably our worst regular starter. goal after goal after goal all down his side, game after game. Started very early in the season too with 2 down his side against Brighton at home and then followed up with Raphina putting him on his arse at the Turf to equalise at the death. Chelsea home game I'm pretty sure all 4 goals came down his side, Tarkowski at fault for 2. James had him on absolute toast that day
Like I said to the previous poster, we can all see matches from different perspectives. The way I saw the weakness on the left was Dwight. He chased back about 50% of the time, leaving Taylor to get overloaded and pulling him out of position and leaving massive gaps. Also with expectations on Taylor to attack the left side, he could be totally out of position upfield should a poor pass lead to the breakdown of our attack and a quick attack from the opposing team would leave gaps as well. He couldn’t be in two places at the same time. Like I’ve stated, I’ve no problems with different points of view.
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Re: Left back

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:13 pm

clive40golf wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:37 pm
Not a problem that you disagree, we all look at matches from a different perspective. I thought Pieters was playing well myself although a bit slow (he could have been playing whilst injured we’ll never know), but I preferred Taylor.
I agree. The best two periods of the season generally featured Jack Cork where Cornet either didn't play or was moved centrally with Weghorst. Taylor played in one Pieters the other.

With Cornet on the Left and Westwood/Brownhill in the middle the 4-4-2 didn't work as well as with Brownhill/Cork and Cornet up front.

I'd have to track back through the fixtures but it seemed to me the 4-4-2 and the defence as a unit played better with Cork/Brownhill and Aaron Lennon on the Left.

And Taylor played better as a consequence. It's all about opinions and justifications.

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Re: Left back

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:15 pm

I believe Pieters had the best points per game return out of every single Burnley player last season. Averaged just above a point per game.

KRBFC
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Re: Left back

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:15 pm

I really like Taylor too, surprised he hasn't kicked on in his career to earn England caps, he looked to have that potential, stagnated a little. Quite frustrating at times, has that marauding down the wing ability but doesn't produce the goods often enough despite having it in his locker (Watford away, Everton home two bits of quality that spring too mind)

ClaretPete001
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Re: Left back

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:53 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:15 pm
I believe Pieters had the best points per game return out of every single Burnley player last season. Averaged just above a point per game.
He played 12 games, which mostly co-incided with one of the season's two successful periods from 23rd of Jan to the end of Feb (2 wins, 4 draws and 1 loss).

The second best period was MJs run, which featured Taylor up to the end of the seasons with (3 wins, 2 draws and 3 losses).

Of the 7 games we won - five came in those two periods with Brentford earlier in the season and Everton in between the two.

I guess it's whether you believe that Pieters was a factor in those two periods or Cork.

I think I am right in saying Cork started in 5 of the 7 wins.

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