Arsenal

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
SalisburyClaret
Posts: 3364
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:32 pm
Been Liked: 938 times
Has Liked: 604 times

Arsenal

Post by SalisburyClaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:03 pm

Worth looking at what has happened at Arsenal over the past few seasons as both Kompany and Arteta seem to be adopting similar approaches from the same footballing background.
Arteta has got rid of most of the deadwood (over 26-year-olds on long contracts), and has recruited younger players that will become assets or players he knows or those he knows he can re-vitalise (Jesus). With the backing of the owners, he has installed a clear playing philosophy throughout the club. This philosophy is explained to potential new players before they sign, so everyone is united with the same values.
It's taken some time to gel but they are looking very strong now and there are definitely similarities to Kompany's approach. It's also a great contrast to what is going on at Man Utd!
This user liked this post: Vegas Claret

claretburns
Posts: 3135
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:27 pm
Been Liked: 526 times
Has Liked: 227 times
Location: Halifax

Re: Arsenal

Post by claretburns » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:07 pm

I have watched a bit of AFTV over the years because it is great entertainment watching the self entitled fans go crazy when they lose and they think they have this noble right to be in the Champions League every year.

However, similar to Klopp at Liverpool, with Arsenal over the past few years you can see what they are trying to do and can see a plan with them compared to United who seem to just sleepwalk from one mess to another.
This user liked this post: Stayingup

evensteadiereddie
Posts: 8343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:45 pm
Been Liked: 2694 times
Has Liked: 8349 times
Location: Staffordshire

Re: Arsenal

Post by evensteadiereddie » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:18 pm

The OP makes an interesting and valid point.
We must be patient.

Spijed
Posts: 15588
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2681 times
Has Liked: 1153 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Spijed » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:35 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:18 pm
The OP makes an interesting and valid point.
We must be patient.
Will everyone concerned be patient when debts have to be serviced by player sales etc.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 12040
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 2793 times
Has Liked: 5458 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:40 pm

I thought the Arsenal board would've potted him by now, but he does seem to have their full support and is doing better than I thought he would.
The clear out was much needed and a rebuild with younger and hungrier players will work in the long term.

Utd could definitely do with taking note

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 7435
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1091 times
Has Liked: 294 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:49 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:40 pm
I thought the Arsenal board would've potted him by now, but he does seem to have their full support and is doing better than I thought he would.
The clear out was much needed and a rebuild with younger and hungrier players will work in the long term.

Utd could definitely do with taking note
Tbf Arsenal finished one place above United last season.

It’s not like arsenal have been successful with this ethos is it.

ksrclaret
Posts: 5250
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:56 am
Been Liked: 1964 times
Has Liked: 590 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by ksrclaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:49 pm

It's a very interesting comparison, especially as both managers will be implementing philosophies no doubt produced after many conversations with Pep Guardiola.

I just don't think we can afford a "project" that takes as long as Arteta's has taken, though. Every season we don't go up, more of the debt will need repaying and that will mean player sales. Arteta has had nearly 3 years now and spent bucket loads to turn Arsenal around (highest net spend in PL in his time there isn't it?), and fair play to them because they do look a much healthier club these days. Let's hope Kompany gets it right a lot sooner.

Burnley1989
Posts: 5507
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 1654 times
Has Liked: 1689 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:50 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:35 pm
Will everyone concerned be patient when debts have to be serviced by player sales etc.
I’ve read that a few times and I’m unsure what you mean, maybe I’ve been working too hard this morning 😂

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 7435
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1091 times
Has Liked: 294 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:53 pm

Not really sure I see the comparison at all.

Since Arteta took over they rank the top of netspend in the premier league with A net spend of 386m. There highest league finish has been fifth?
Not really sure this is the kind of project we should be following tbh.

Burnley1989
Posts: 5507
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 1654 times
Has Liked: 1689 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:55 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:53 pm
Not really sure I see the comparison at all.

Since Arteta took over they rank the top of netspend in the premier league with A net spend of 386m. There highest league finish has been fifth?
Not really sure this is the kind of project we should be following tbh.
I was thinking similar last night, my opinion changes by the hour at the minute depending on others thoughts and comments
This user liked this post: RVclaret

Spijed
Posts: 15588
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2681 times
Has Liked: 1153 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Spijed » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:59 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:50 pm
I’ve read that a few times and I’m unsure what you mean, maybe I’ve been working too hard this morning 😂
Will the Chairman allow VK to keep a settled side going into next season (assuming we don't go up) or will a few players depart to service the debt, thus another rebis required?

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 12040
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 2793 times
Has Liked: 5458 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:59 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:49 pm
Tbf Arsenal finished one place above United last season.

It’s not like arsenal have been successful with this ethos is it.
This season Utd have no points and bottom of the table, Arsenal have 6 and are 2nd.
The 21/22 season Utd were 6th and Arsenal 5th
The 20/21 season Utd were second and Arsenal 8th
The 19/20 season Utd were third and Arsenal were 8th (Arteta appointed December 2019)
The 18/19 season Utd were sixth and Arsenal were 5th


Arsenal and Arteta are showing clear signs of improvement after shifting some overpaid dead weight and having a better transfer policy, bringing in younger and hungrier players.

Utd are just starting their clear out but I think Arsenal will have the better season overall, especially if they can continue on their upward trajectory and finish top 4.
Right now you'd be hard pressed to think Utd will finish top 6...

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 12040
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 2793 times
Has Liked: 5458 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:03 pm

Arsenal have a higher net spend because he's having to overhaul the squad whilst also keeping them competitive and in the top half of the table.
They had some dross there and players with an attitude problem on silly contracts which makes them harder to move on.

It isn't being suggested we follow their financial model, that's just plain daft, it's about having patience to see the rebuild through etc.

Burnley1989
Posts: 5507
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 1654 times
Has Liked: 1689 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:09 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:59 pm
Will the Chairman allow VK to keep a settled side going into next season (assuming we don't go up) or will a few players depart to service the debt, thus another rebis required?
Ahhh I was thinking you meant everyone on here, as in the fans. Makes sense now

claretburns
Posts: 3135
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:27 pm
Been Liked: 526 times
Has Liked: 227 times
Location: Halifax

Re: Arsenal

Post by claretburns » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:14 pm

Agreed with some points above, under Arteta management the main bulk of the net spend has happened in the past two summer transfer windows and this is due to Josh Kroenke taking a more hands on role at the club compared to his father.

If you compare the past 3/4 years then yes the stats are there that Arsenal have been similar in terms of Premier League finishes with United, if not worse overall when comparing top 4 finishes.

However, Arsenal will finish above United this season 100%, no doubt about it and as United continue with their scattergun approach to building a team then it will be a long time before they get near Arsenal in the future.
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

Ampth7
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:12 pm
Been Liked: 23 times
Has Liked: 3 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Ampth7 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:14 pm

Some interesting comparisons between Kompany and Arteta and what each is trying to do with their respective clubs.

Whilst it might not seem to be the end of the world if we don’t go back up this season, then the following season will be even more important from a financial point of view (stating the obvious I guess).

One thing I would say when comparing the two is that I believe getting a club like Arsenal into the top 4/challenging for the title, on a regular basis, is a much bigger project than gaining promotion from the championship. When you consider the sheer amount of money required and therefore the huge gulf in class between the top 2 and the rest, then you can start to see why it might take at least 3 years to bridge that gap at the top of the prem.

With that in mind, combined with the in my opinion, excellent progress that has already been made by VK and his coaching team, this season or next could well be enough time to realise enough progress to regain promotion.

All ‘ifs and buts’ mind you, and clearly injuries, future ins and outs, form, luck etc… will all have an impact as well. In the meantime, let’s be patient, support ALL the players, accept there will be some bumps along the road and enjoy the ride!
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 7435
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1091 times
Has Liked: 294 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:04 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:03 pm
Arsenal have a higher net spend because he's having to overhaul the squad whilst also keeping them competitive and in the top half of the table.
They had some dross there and players with an attitude problem on silly contracts which makes them harder to move on.

It isn't being suggested we follow their financial model, that's just plain daft, it's about having patience to see the rebuild through etc.
Do we have three years and the necessary funds to even be comparable to Arsenal?

BurnleyFC
Posts: 3577
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:51 am
Been Liked: 1150 times
Has Liked: 758 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by BurnleyFC » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:07 pm

Arsenal will fall away rapidly, like they always do.

They’ll probably end up 5th or 6th come the end of the season.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 12040
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 2793 times
Has Liked: 5458 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:50 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:04 pm
Do we have three years and the necessary funds to even be comparable to Arsenal?
I'm not doing a like for like comparison, it's about the long term project.

You may have missed it during all of your flapping but ALK said relegation wouldn't be an issue, so depending on the outlook of the person, we have this year and potentially next before we need to get promoted.

Both Arsenal and Burnley boards have committed to an overhaul of the playing staff and supporting their respective managers to change the style of play and to see it through
That's the only comparisons we need tbh

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 7435
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1091 times
Has Liked: 294 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:59 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:50 pm
I'm not doing a like for like comparison, it's about the long term project.

You may have missed it during all of your flapping but ALK said relegation wouldn't be an issue, so depending on the outlook of the person, we have this year and potentially next before we need to get promoted.

Both Arsenal and Burnley boards have committed to an overhaul of the playing staff and supporting their respective managers to change the style of play and to see it through
That's the only comparisons we need tbh
There’s no comparisons to be made tbh. Not even remotely similar situations

Greenmile
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:50 pm
Been Liked: 875 times
Has Liked: 3154 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Greenmile » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:59 pm

Judging from the recent Amazon doc on Arsenal, Arteta seems to be a bit of a clown.

Judging from the less recent Amazon doc on Man City (and his pressers since joining us), Kompany seems very thoughtful and measured.

Not sure how much this matters, or even whether it’s relevant to this thread, but just putting it out there anyway.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 12040
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 2793 times
Has Liked: 5458 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:04 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:59 pm
There’s no comparisons to be made tbh. Not even remotely similar situations
Ok, whatever you want to say and believe, I'm not arsed by your opinion over it.

KRBFC
Posts: 15933
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3055 times
Has Liked: 1010 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by KRBFC » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:10 pm

Arsenal are shite, back to back 8th position, they spent £250m in the window after and suddenly they finish 5th.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 7435
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1091 times
Has Liked: 294 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:10 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:10 pm
Arsenal are shite, back to back 8th position, they spent £250m in the window after and suddenly they finish 5th.
Yep highest spenders in the league since Arteta took over.

KRBFC
Posts: 15933
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3055 times
Has Liked: 1010 times

Re: Arsenal

Post by KRBFC » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:11 pm

and they're no better than the Emery side who finished 5th and got Europa League final.

Post Reply