Football's Magic Money Tree

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jedi_master
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by jedi_master » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:33 pm

I just really, really, REALLY hope the club are actively paying down the debt with a large portion of the money brought in (and some of the parachute payments) as opposed to simply servicing the interest on the debt.

I like our business this summer in terms of seeing a younger profile coming in (albeit, I will continue to remain strongly of the opinion that we got ripped off on the deals for Pope and Collins and should have retained Ben Mee without question), and it’s heartening (to me) that we haven’t spent an obscene amount chasing an insta-promotion. That’s too big a gamble. The two activities need to be working in tandem in terms of squad rebuild/debt repayment. From an outsiders perspective, we seem to be doing just that - but maybe I’m being naive. The fact that we’re having to sell our prized assets to effectively allow Alan Pace the ability to truly ‘buy’ our club is obviously saddening/infuriating - but we are where we are at this point. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen and hopefully we’re the last club to be ‘bought’ in this manner.

Overall then, I hope we are being somewhat canny in trying to bring things under a sustainable level of control whilst also (possibly) fighting at the upper end - though I feel we will be also rans without at least one striker. The squad currently looks a little unbalanced but is very close to being a strong squad. Further Outgoings as much as further incomings are just as crucial at this point.

Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:46 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:33 pm
I just really, really, REALLY hope the club are actively paying down the debt with a large portion of the money brought in (and some of the parachute payments) as opposed to simply servicing the interest on the debt.

I like our business this summer in terms of seeing a younger profile coming in (albeit, I will continue to remain strongly of the opinion that we got ripped off on the deals for Pope and Collins and should have retained Ben Mee without question), and it’s heartening (to me) that we haven’t spent an obscene amount chasing an insta-promotion. That’s too big a gamble. The two activities need to be working in tandem in terms of squad rebuild/debt repayment. From an outsiders perspective, we seem to be doing just that - but maybe I’m being naive. The fact that we’re having to sell our prized assets to effectively allow Alan Pace the ability to truly ‘buy’ our club is obviously saddening/infuriating - but we are where we are at this point. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen and hopefully we’re the last club to be ‘bought’ in this manner.

Overall then, I hope we are being somewhat canny in trying to bring things under a sustainable level of control whilst also (possibly) fighting at the upper end - though I feel we will be also rans without at least one striker. The squad currently looks a little unbalanced but is very close to being a strong squad. Further Outgoings as much as further incomings are just as crucial at this point.
Definitely not able to pay down the MSD debt other than what was contractually obliged on relegation, which we believe was £15m (see http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=62572) - it is not how that loan works

There are outstanding stage payments of circa £45m + if there is no relegation reduction in the sale price (I have seen no evidence of one and take what I have seen as to suggest there isn't one)

There is also the agreement to buy the remaining shares of Garlick and co by October 2024 for a further £20m
Last edited by Chester Perry on Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aggi
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:47 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:33 pm
Continuing on here…..

There’s numerous examples of football clubs becoming unstuck through the factoring of future income. Are there many success stories? Eventually if this is wrong now, there’s going to be no safety net. It’s high risk, high return as a strategy….. back to the bet the ranch days?
Personally I'm more comfortable with factoring transfer income rather than future revenues.

It's not ideal but it's bringing your cash in line with accounting treatment so isn't disastrous. Obviously the flipside is your transfer purchases, if you're using the factoring to increase leverage and pay fees up front then it may not be a big issue. If you're factoring your income but your outgoings are still due over a number of years then that isn't great.
This user liked this post: Lancasterclaret

dandeclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dandeclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:49 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:47 pm
Personally I'm more comfortable with factoring transfer income rather than future revenues.

It's not ideal but it's bringing your cash in line with accounting treatment so isn't disastrous. Obviously the flipside is your transfer purchases, if you're using the factoring to increase leverage and pay fees up front then it may not be a big issue. If you're factoring your income but your outgoings are still due over a number of years then that isn't great.
My presumption was it was the longer term leveraging…. Could be wrong, but what would be the benefit of paying up front? Securing discounted transfers? Does that actually happen in football?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by jedi_master » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:51 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:46 pm
Definitely not able to pay down the MSD debt other than what was contractually obliged on relegation, which we believe was £15m (see http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=62572) - it is not how that loan works

There are outstanding stage payments of circa £45m + if there is no relegation reduction in the sale price (I have seen no evidence of one and take what I have seen as to suggest there isn't one)

There is also the agreement to buy the remaining shares of Garlick and co by October 2024 for a further £20m
Thanks for that Chester, interesting to see. I wasn’t certain if we could pay it off as and when we could (so to speak), whilst keeping up as a minimum with the pre-agreed staged payments and interest.

Thanks for the clarification.
Last edited by jedi_master on Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:51 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:47 pm
Personally I'm more comfortable with factoring transfer income rather than future revenues.

It's not ideal but it's bringing your cash in line with accounting treatment so isn't disastrous. Obviously the flipside is your transfer purchases, if you're using the factoring to increase leverage and pay fees up front then it may not be a big issue. If you're factoring your income but your outgoings are still due over a number of years then that isn't great.
concur on both counts

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:58 pm

Thanks Aggi/CP

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by arise_sir_charge » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:58 pm

Was going to say, there is a HUGE difference between factoring future revenue as opposed to future transfer fees.

Primarily, a transfer fee is likely a guaranteed minimum sum where as revenues can fluctuate for a multitude of reasons.

It’s not dissimilar to using invoice financing in business and that can be a great way to grow a develop a business.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by NewClaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:30 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:47 pm
Personally I'm more comfortable with factoring transfer income rather than future revenues.

It's not ideal but it's bringing your cash in line with accounting treatment so isn't disastrous. Obviously the flipside is your transfer purchases, if you're using the factoring to increase leverage and pay fees up front then it may not be a big issue. If you're factoring your income but your outgoings are still due over a number of years then that isn't great.
I’m very comfortable and just view it is a mechanism to ensure prompt payment of a debt. Nearly every business I’ve ever worked for use invoice factoring to some degree or other, despite their payment terms being more like 30 to 90 days - never mind 3 years!! It’s very sensible.

It only becomes an issue if:

a) we stop producing saleable assets in future (unlikely, and the risk of that is potentially reduced by taking this approach and reinvesting)
b) revenue doesn’t cover our operating costs/player purchases. Which of course they might, but that will be due to poor management, not this financing mechanism per se.

Of course that won’t stop the twitterati sensationalising it.

What I am really disappointed about is that this confirms we got a shocking deal for Pope! I was hoping that was misreported :( and think it’s only right I now pay out on my bet with Newcastle.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:04 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:58 pm
Was going to say, there is a HUGE difference between factoring future revenue as opposed to future transfer fees.

Primarily, a transfer fee is likely a guaranteed minimum sum where as revenues can fluctuate for a multitude of reasons.

It’s not dissimilar to using invoice financing in business and that can be a great way to grow a develop a business.
Agree, Burnley Football and Athletic Company Limited loan from Macquarie - based on the public domain information revealed by Bournemouth, who've done the same a few times - is around 4% per annum. This is based on Newcastle United's credit status, given both their ownership and the Premier League and EFL rules including football creditors. The cost of the MSD debt is 3 months Libor + 8%. So, always better to convert debtors into cash.

Do we have any indication of the split between NUFC immediate cash payment for Nick Pope and the 3 remaining instalments, which total £7 million?

Do we know the sell-on clause that is due to Charlton?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:35 pm

Seems the right thing to do for me, the club seems to be accelerating towards a Brentford type model, this factoring would seem to be speeding up that process by allowing more or better young players straight away. That feels right because the best chance of promotion back is while we have the competitive parachute advantage, so plodding along at a more sensible pace, totally dictated by cash flow without factoring, would likely leave us mid table and as one of the smaller clubs in the division. Doing it this way has some risk, but potentially more reward,

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:40 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:35 pm
Seems the right thing to do for me, the club seems to be accelerating towards a Brentford type model, this factoring would seem to be speeding up that process by allowing more or better young players straight away. That feels right because the best chance of promotion back is while we have the competitive parachute advantage, so plodding along at a more sensible pace, totally dictated by cash flow without factoring, would likely leave us mid table and as one of the smaller clubs in the division. Doing it this way has some risk, but potentially more reward,
I don’t understand why you think we are following Brentford? They spent a small fortune to get to the position they are in.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:57 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:04 pm

Do we know the sell-on clause that is due to Charlton?
Percentage believed to be in the high 20's

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:03 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:57 pm
Percentage believed to be in the high 20's
Have you got a link to this info?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Swizzlestick » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:45 pm

No idea if it’s of any real interest, but just as an aside, Mike Smith (who signed the charge on behalf of BFC) had his signature witnessed by the MD of Sand Harbor Advisors. https://sandharboradvisors.com/

A quick scan of the LinkedIn of the Vice President of Sand Harbor shows a lot of Burnley FC interaction. Also another ex Goldman Sachs employee. https://www.linkedin.com/in/travis-edwards-57b82872

Wonder if they’re involved with the drumming up investment side of things.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Swizzlestick » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:50 pm

Too late to edit - fellow Mormon too. Probably just pals but it’s good to aimlessly speculate.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Loyal Supporter » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:05 pm

I believe we have sold 14000 season tickets. That equates to maybe £6m? Plus match day income of maybe 10m? We've been used to £120m income per season. Aren't we in a bit of a mess?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:13 pm

Loyal Supporter wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:05 pm
I believe we have sold 14000 season tickets. That equates to maybe £6m? Plus match day income of maybe 10m? We've been used to £120m income per season. Aren't we in a bit of a mess?
Match day income revenue in our last Champ season was 5m. Maybe it would be a bit more this season given, it seems, more season ticket sales. We will get around 42m parachute payment too. Yes it’s a big loss of revenue, but the majority of that PL money was going on wages, which have also, more than likely, been chopped in half (or by my estimations more than half).

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:35 pm

Loyal Supporter wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:05 pm
I believe we have sold 14000 season tickets. That equates to maybe £6m? Plus match day income of maybe 10m? We've been used to £120m income per season. Aren't we in a bit of a mess?
The majority of that £120 Million used to go on our wage bill.
Said wage bill has been lowered a lot, well over half I'd say with player sales and relegation clauses kicking in.

Now we have parachute payments for a couple of years and by that point the remaining higher earners will be gone, if we haven't gone back up.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:41 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:35 pm
The majority of that £120 Million used to go on our wage bill.
Said wage bill has been lowered a lot, well over half I'd say with player sales and relegation clauses kicking in.

Now we have parachute payments for a couple of years and by that point the remaining higher earners will be gone, if we haven't gone back up.
I suspect our costs have also gone up from our previous stint in the championship.

Like Academy costs, Loan interest, staffing costs (I believe we have more staff now than 6 years ago

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:57 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:49 pm
My presumption was it was the longer term leveraging…. Could be wrong, but what would be the benefit of paying up front? Securing discounted transfers? Does that actually happen in football?
Yes, discounted transfers (or getting the transfer to happen at all). Particularly in the lower leagues where a hefty cash injection in one season can give a real advantage over the other teams.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:40 pm

Back to the usual fair following the diversion of our club factoring Nick Popes transfer fee

Sam Wallace in the Telegraph carries on his crusade against the financial madness of Barcelona (he does often write similar about the other ESL refuseniks) - link bypasses the paywall

Barcelona's Las Vegas-style gamble depends on legal fate of European Super League
President Joan Laporta is selling tomorrow to pay for today and spending forecasted revenues like they are guaranteed


https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... uropean%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:37 pm

Looks like Forest are struggling to find a shirt sponsor to match their somewhat lofty ambition.
https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/excl ... ng-offers/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:13 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:37 pm
Looks like Forest are struggling to find a shirt sponsor to match their somewhat lofty ambition.
https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/excl ... ng-offers/
What were we getting whilst in the PL, I've forgotten?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:50 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:13 pm
What were we getting whilst in the PL, I've forgotten?
I seem to remember we were getting more than you'd expect compared to our size but sure it was less than £10m. Maybe £7m or so

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:54 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:50 pm
I seem to remember we were getting more than you'd expect compared to our size but sure it was less than £10m. Maybe £7m or so
So Forest are definitely being over ambitious as a virtually brand new PL club

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:39 pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meri ... -zztqbkdgt

‘A New Deal for Football’

Basically - how can the Premier League be separated even further from the EFL.

Some of the comments and proposals in there are hilarious.

‘There have been concerns among the Premier League sides that so many Championship clubs spend above their means.’

The irony.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:54 pm

Premier League 'close to agreeing new system to support lower leagues' https://mol.im/a/11051225 via https://dailym.ai/android

Link to Daily mail Article about A New Deal for Football, for those who can't access The Times.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by claretburns » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:33 am

"Some Premier League clubs also want Championship sides to commit to developing young English talent by agreeing to play a fixed number of under-23 players who could come on loan from the top flight."

I do not like this idea, basically Championship to become Premier League "B" teams.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:38 am

claretburns wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:33 am
"Some Premier League clubs also want Championship sides to commit to developing young English talent by agreeing to play a fixed number of under-23 players who could come on loan from the top flight."

I do not like this idea, basically Championship to become Premier League "B" teams.
Ridiculous idea.

And the reduction of parachute payments is basically going to make the Prem even more of a closed shop.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:52 am

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:39 pm
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meri ... -zztqbkdgt

‘A New Deal for Football’

Basically - how can the Premier League be separated even further from the EFL.

Some of the comments and proposals in there are hilarious.

‘There have been concerns among the Premier League sides that so many Championship clubs spend above their means.’

The irony.
To be fair, it's a reasonable point. The spending in the Championship is crazy.
RVclaret wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:38 am
Ridiculous idea.

And the reduction of parachute payments is basically going to make the Prem even more of a closed shop.
It will very possibly make it less of a closed shop in terms of different teams getting promoted. At the moment the parachute payments make relegated teams the big favourite to go back up again. It will make it more difficult to go up and stay up though.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:54 am

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:38 am
Ridiculous idea.

And the reduction of parachute payments is basically going to make the Prem even more of a closed shop.
Ah but the parachute payments are part of the issue, because more often than not the relegated clubs don't bother getting their wage bills under control and they can outspend championship clubs which is why we usually see 1-2 of the previously relegated clubs going straight back up.
It's making the championship uncompetitive.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by NewClaret » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:56 am

We may be one of the last clubs to benefit from them then, then potentially from an enhanced package going forward!

But if I were Forest I’d be ****ing bricks!!

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:59 am

aggi wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:52 am
To be fair, it's a reasonable point. The spending in the Championship is crazy.



It will very possibly make it less of a closed shop in terms of different teams getting promoted. At the moment the parachute payments make relegated teams the big favourite to go back up again. It will make it more difficult to go up and stay up though.
Yes this is what I was getting at

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:51 pm

The New Deal makes sense to me.
There are bound to be winners and losers on a club by club basis, but overall football should be improved.
As much as we may rely on the parachute payments, I can remember how we all railed against them before promotion. It is unfair to the rest of the league, and I'm more than happy to be one of the last beneficiaries.

I haven't read the whole proposal, but if it isn't in there already, I would add a caveat that the linked place payments are dependent on the club having it's house in order. Those who don't stick to FFP, shouldn't get a dime.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by claretandy » Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:30 pm

Oh.... Newcastle borrow against future ticket sales and media rights

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... sNhcw&s=19

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:40 pm

Interesting piece in the Independent about the Fenkie de Jong wage dispute with Barcelona and how it is part of a pretty much standard trend - Club's trying to shirk the folly of their own actions, particularly while trying to repeat then with new signings and using the fanbase as a means of 'terror' is utterly despicable.- link to an archive copy as the
Independent is continuing its move to registration of readers

https://archive.ph/uBLrP

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:40 pm
Interesting piece in the Independent about the Fenkie de Jong wage dispute with Barcelona and how it is part of a pretty much standard trend - Club's trying to shirk the folly of their own actions, particularly while trying to repeat then with new signings and using the fanbase as a means of 'terror' is utterly despicable.- link to an archive copy as the
Independent is continuing its move to registration of readers

https://archive.ph/uBLrP
As I said in another thread, I used to really like Barca, but these last 6 years I can't stand them.
Why can't UEFA just sort them out, instead of pussyfooting with FFP. While they are run by the people in charge nothing is going to change, for the better.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Top Claret » Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:46 am

An article in the Daily Telegraph saying that Bournemouth squad is weaker than the one that got promotion and down to the bones. Scott Parker isn't happy he said that they won't be competitive and that relegation is inevitable if they don't strengthen.


Seems that there Russian owner as had enough and wants out

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:18 am

Top Claret wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:46 am
An article in the Daily Telegraph saying that Bournemouth squad is weaker than the one that got promotion and down to the bones. Scott Parker isn't happy he said that they won't be competitive and that relegation is inevitable if they don't strengthen.


Seems that there Russian owner as had enough and wants out
Bournemouth have been borrowing against their outgoing transfer fees for several years. I was looking at their accounts a couple of days ago. They have massive debt to their owner. At the last accounts publication, to meet going concern accounting requirements, he committed to not ask for any loan repayment unless the club could afford to repay. Is it possible that events in Russia and Ukraine have changed the situation for Bournemouth's owner and he may now want/need some of his money back from the club?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfcjg » Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:26 am

Bournemouth have skated on thin ice for years with the cash the owner has put in. I reckon they will be the next Derby or worse. Ironically not a million miles away from Portsmouth.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:41 am

Top Claret wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:46 am
An article in the Daily Telegraph saying that Bournemouth squad is weaker than the one that got promotion and down to the bones. Scott Parker isn't happy he said that they won't be competitive and that relegation is inevitable if they don't strengthen.


Seems that there Russian owner as had enough and wants out
Ha, because that wasn't predictable as once they didn't start building a new stadium.
With no ability to grow their matchday revenue they're always going to rely on owners to keep their inflated league position.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:45 pm

Football's investigative journalists now seem to be hot on the trail of Barcelona and their mind-boggling financial gymnastics this summer

first up Tariq Panja for the New York Times - link to an archive copy of the article to avoid the paywall

Barcelona Spent Its Way Into Crisis. Can It Now Spend Its Way Out?
One of the world’s biggest soccer teams needed to close a $700 million shortfall. Its president, Joan Laporta, may have done it. But the club’s problems are not over.


https://archive.ph/CEQrO#selection-271.1-275.166

second up is the Athletic who it would seem are preparing a series of reports given that ;Barcelona Investigation is now a menu header on all pages - again the link is to an archive copy to avoid paywall

Investigation: Barcelona’s financial crisis and what the rest of football thinks of it
https://archive.ph/Pccvn

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:43 am

The chaps at Vysyble with a new blog piece to welcome the new Premier League season, with a focus on American ownership/investment (there is also a fascinating aside about just how much was saved by the new owners of Chelsea simply as a result of currency fluctuation, it may go some way to explaining their spend this summer

Blog 20 -Soccerball
http://vysyble.com/blog-020

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RammyClaret61 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:21 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:41 am
Ha, because that wasn't predictable as once they didn't start building a new stadium.
With no ability to grow their matchday revenue they're always going to rely on owners to keep their inflated league position.
The Bolton Wanderers model of football finance. That ended well…. Not.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Quickenthetempo » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:26 am

Incredible. Spanish radio claim Barcelona jointly set-up a holdings company to which it paid €150m of its own money to buy its own assets (to inflate value of sale). La Liga rejected it as not "new" money. Barça must now pay €37.5m tax on this payment.
https://twitter.com/Millar_Colin/status ... yl4KOES7LA

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:35 pm

Barcelona now threatening Frenkie de Jong with legal action to get his current contract annulled and return him to his previous contract - which means they will owe him less - I would really have to laugh hard if his lawyers exercised the same style he did yesterday in destroying the midfield of Pumas UNAM in a friendly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJFbFJw0Z0M) get his registration annulled thereby depriving Barcelona of the Euro 85m they want for him

archive copy of the article from the Athletic to avoid the paywall

Ornstein: Barcelona threaten legal action over Frenkie de Jong contract
https://archive.ph/F3ZDL

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:12 pm

A good thread today from Swiss Ramble explaining why Newcastle are not spending in the way many expected

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 3342863366

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:31 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:12 pm
A good thread today from Swiss Ramble explaining why Newcastle are not spending in the way many expected

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 3342863366
Meanwhile I have just seen this lengthy article about the man who the Premier League (probably at the behest of our government) say does not own or control Newcastle United - The graphics used to support sections of the article have proved quite incendiary with (probably justified) claims that they help inflame hate and stereotypes of terrorism.

It is interesting that the piece starts with this opening - "No one wanted to play football with Muhammad bin Salman. Sure, the boy was a member of Saudi Arabia’s royal family, but so were 15,000 other people."

from the Economist - link to an archive version to circumvent the paywall

MBS: despot in the desert
A volatile millennial wields absolute power in Saudi Arabia. What will he do next?
https://archive.ph/JQFiG

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:47 pm

It is interesting that while the Super League was met with almost (there were plenty of supporters of the idea) was met with vilification and large doses of animosity, other cross border league proposals have not ben subject to the same levels of objection/rejection by public and media. This court case reported by the Mail and without the usual gnashing about how the game is now about the few and how much money they can grab for themselves, is in essence about the same thing that the ESL three where saying only last month in the European courts. Of course while this may be beneficial for the big clubs in smaller leagues it does nothing for those left behind - perhaps it is the perfect example of our times

EXCLUSIVE: Bosman mark II! New court case may dramatically free Old Firm giants Celtic and Rangers and present them with the chance to leave SPFL in pursuit of a bigger league
  • FC Swift Hesperange have filed a lawsuit against Europe's governing body and the Luxembourg Football Federation
  • If that is successful it could present Celtic and Rangers with an opportunity
  • Potentially it could open the door for Old Firm giants to leave SPFL structure
By STEPHEN MCGOWAN FOR THE SCOTTISH DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 00:47, 6 August 2022 | UPDATED: 00:50, 6 August 2022

Bosman lawyer Jean-Louis Dupont insists Scotland's top clubs stand to benefit from a new legal challenge to UEFA's stance on cross-border leagues.

Minnows FC Swift Hesperange have filed a lawsuit against Europe's governing body and the Luxembourg Football Federation.

If successful, it could open the door for the likes of Celtic and Rangers to boost their earning power by taking part in transnational leagues with bigger television markets.

Backed by the club sponsors, Swift Hesperange claim UEFA's opposition to cross-border leagues has hampered their ability to join a proposed Benelux League with teams from Holland and Belgium.

The club have filed a claim with the Tribunal D'Arrondisement in Luxembourg insisting UEFA and their national FA are restricting their prospects of growth via 'rules prohibiting clubs from creating and running transnational competitions'.

In 2020, Aberdeen, Celtic, Hibs, Hearts and Rangers were informed of plans for a 20-team competition featuring clubs from Scotland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Republic of Ireland. Drawn up by Andrew Doyle, co-owner of League of Ireland side Shelbourne, the blueprint had the backing of investment bank JP Morgan and projected annual broadcasting revenue of up to €400million.

Talks ground to a halt when Celtic's major shareholder Dermot Desmond informed Doyle's SAL Sports Capital that the Parkhead club were no longer interested.

Confident that cross-border leagues are coming 'sooner rather than later', however, Dupont - the legal brain behind the Bosman ruling and a key figure in the fight between UEFA and the clubs pushing a European Super League - will ask a Luxembourg judge to refer the case to the Court of Justice of the European Union (ECJ) at a preliminary hearing this autumn.

'Swift and its sponsor, Leopard, are ambitious,' the Belgian told Sportsmail. 'The club had already complained publicly in the past regarding some FLF and UEFA rules - in particular, the homegrown players rules, that disadvantage the clubs from small countries. But their voice was not heard. They decided to make it heard in court.

'Clubs will not "move". But clubs from small countries would be entitled to produce their domestic football in a larger territory, in order to match the production power of the big leagues.'

Admitting a successful challenge could have huge repercussions for large clubs outside the big five leagues, Dupont foresees the likes of Ajax, Anderlecht, Benfica, Celtic, Copenhagen, Porto and Rangers joining transnational leagues with larger TV markets - and more money.

He said: 'Celtic and Rangers are great clubs. But how much do they get for their media rights compared to the smallest (English) Premier League club?

'And this is the lack of domestic incomes that determines negatively their competitiveness on the European stage.'

Hopes of both Glasgow clubs competing in the group stage of the Champions League hang by a thread after Rangers lost the first leg of their third qualifying round tie to Union Saint-Gilloise.

Convinced clubs in Scotland, Holland, Belgium, Ireland and Scandinavia need to pool resources to become more competitive, Dupont said: 'In my view, yes. But in an organised and clever manner, once the ECJ has decided all legal issues.

'We will have an introductory hearing in the fall in the State Court of Luxembourg and it will be for this judge to decide if she/he refers the case to the ECJ.'

A specialist in European law, 58-year-old Dupont was part of the legal team which secured the Bosman ruling in December 1995, a move which prompted a revolution in football transfers.

Asked if a successful court challenge to UEFA's competition rules could have an even bigger impact on European football than Bosman, he replied: 'Yes, because it affects the production market rather than 'only' the labour market.'

Pressed to put a timescale on the introduction of cross-border leagues he replied: 'No. But sooner rather than later.'

The scourge of UEFA and FIFA, Dupont has brought multiple cases against the football authorities and is currently representing the European Super League Company - backed by Real Madrid, Juventus and Barcelona - in their fight to establish the principle that the world bodies are not the sole owners of the rights to football and cannot prevent rival competitions springing up.

Acknowledging the links between the Super League and the push for cross-border leagues, he said: 'Intellectually, there is a common ground: in both cases, some clubs challenge the EU legality of UEFA's monopoly on the organisation and management of transnational club competitions.'

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