Football's Magic Money Tree

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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:41 am

Almost 30 years after turning down a shared marketing/sales deal that would have seen them have around 20% of the proceeds (The FL - as it was then - thought it could do better) it seems the pleas, foot-stomping and screeching while battering hands and feet on the floor may have got the EFL some more money - of course that may have more to do with the impending threat of a government appointed independent regulator (there is an oxymoron in there). But beware those bearing gifts

The Mail with an exclusive of sorts though the story has been building all year

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... e-EFL.html

EXCLUSIVE: EFL funding deal set to be agreed that will see MILLIONS flow from the Premier League to the Football League, in what would be a final victory after parachute payments were cancelled due to the pandemic
  • EFL clubs have been pushing for more money since the start of the pandemic
  • Their demands have been backed by the government but resisted by PL clubs
  • The reforms would mean more EFL clubs would receive a greater sum each year
By MATT HUGHES FOR THE DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 22:30, 8 August 2022 | UPDATED: 00:15, 9 August 2022

Premier League clubs could finally agree a new funding package for the EFL worth hundreds of millions of pounds following a two-year stand-off at a hastily convened shareholders meeting tomorrow.

The EFL have been asking for more money and the abolition of parachute payments since the start of the pandemic.

The demands have gained the support of government and the wider football community, but despite lengthy negotiations the top-flight clubs have yet to make a substantive offer.

Sportsmail has learned that there is widespread support amongst the clubs for increasing their funding of the lower leagues on the condition it is distributed on merit according to finishing position, while the controversial parachute payments could also be lowered in an attempt to reduce the huge financial chasm between the Premier League and the Championship.

The net result of such reforms would be more EFL clubs receiving a greater sum each year, although those relegated to the Championship would lose out.

In return for increasing the funding and tweaking parachute payments the Premier League clubs are understood to be asking for guarantees from the Championship to field more homegrown players, in the hope of giving more game-time to their Academy products.

While the proposed reforms could be put to a vote at tomorrow's meeting if a consensus emerges the decision may be put off to a later date to allow consultation with the EFL, the FA and government.

The Premier League already put more money back into the lower leagues than any other comparable organisation, but have been pushed to increase their funding by the impact of the pandemic and pressure from government, who are threatening to impose independent regulation on the sport for the first time.

Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:23 am

An extensive piece about the trails at Derby from the BBC - while it mentions that Morris sold the Stadium it doesn't mention that Morris used the money to pay off MSD Debt, MSD loaned Derby extra money to help it get through Administration and judging by the cancelation of the TISE listing in Jersey they have got all of their money back. Given that Morris spent a long time looking for a very specific price for Pride Park (in the region of £22m) it could be read that there was an early repayment penalty sum paid to MSD as well

Derby County: How one of England's historic clubs was saved from a wild ride to ruin

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62377986

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:39 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:35 pm
Barcelona now threatening Frenkie de Jong with legal action to get his current contract annulled and return him to his previous contract - which means they will owe him less - I would really have to laugh hard if his lawyers exercised the same style he did yesterday in destroying the midfield of Pumas UNAM in a friendly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJFbFJw0Z0M) get his registration annulled thereby depriving Barcelona of the Euro 85m they want for him

archive copy of the article from the Athletic to avoid the paywall

Ornstein: Barcelona threaten legal action over Frenkie de Jong contract
https://archive.ph/F3ZDL
They're talking about this now on Talksport, it's mind-blowing that Barca are trying to pull this

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:01 pm

Latest from Sky on parachute payments.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:11 pm

Parachute payments wouldn't be needed so much if relegation clauses were mandatory and if there was a maximum wage, or wage budget similar to La Liga, in the championship

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:33 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:11 pm
Parachute payments wouldn't be needed so much if relegation clauses were mandatory and if there was a maximum wage, or wage budget similar to La Liga, in the championship
Parachute Payments (particularly in the Premier League, but also through the tier in the EFL and the fall to National League) are more about the level of competition in the league a club has fallen from, There are there to encourage investment (both in infrastructure and on the pitch - it makes the product more saleable around the globe. Imaging a premier League without parachutes and the huge disparity of the big clubs with their enormous UEFA incomes - it would be like Spain (even though it is heading that way)

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:36 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:33 pm
Parachute Payments (particularly in the Premier League, but also through the tier in the EFL and the fall to National League) are more about the level of competition in the league a club has fallen from, There are there to encourage investment (both in infrastructure and on the pitch - it makes the product more saleable around the globe. Imaging a premier League without parachutes and the huge disparity of the big clubs with their enormous UEFA incomes - it would be like Spain (even though it is heading that way)
If the EFL received more payments via the PL and also capped wage budgets then maybe clubs would be more inclined to spend on their infrastructure.
Various things are needed for stadiums to qualify as fit for the PL, do the EFL have anything similar for their leagues?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by DCWat » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:50 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:33 pm
Parachute Payments (particularly in the Premier League, but also through the tier in the EFL and the fall to National League) are more about the level of competition in the league a club has fallen from, There are there to encourage investment (both in infrastructure and on the pitch - it makes the product more saleable around the globe. Imaging a premier League without parachutes and the huge disparity of the big clubs with their enormous UEFA incomes - it would be like Spain (even though it is heading that way)
It looks to me that removing parachute payments will only serve to keep the premier league as a closed shop, unless the promoted teams are bank rolled.

How does a newly promoted team, managing money reasonably sensibly, begin to compete in the premier league without any sort of safety net? The gulf between the two divisions will surely get bigger, never mind with those regularly in the European competitions.

All I can see this doing is shifting the gulf up the league by three places. Yes, it may create a more equal playing field in the championship but it’ll make it even harder for anyone to break into and stay in the premier league.

If it reaches a point where promotion is almost certainly followed by immediate relegation, we’re nearer to an American model than I ever. There has to be a point, there has to be jeopardy and reward.
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by DCWat » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:54 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:36 pm
If the EFL received more payments via the PL and also capped wage budgets then maybe clubs would be more inclined to spend on their infrastructure.
Various things are needed for stadiums to qualify as fit for the PL, do the EFL have anything similar for their leagues?
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... ulation-8/

The only reason the PL has so many requirements is to ensure that their product looks good to the TV audience. The fan in the ground will be way down on the list of considerations.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:13 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:36 pm
If the EFL received more payments via the PL and also capped wage budgets then maybe clubs would be more inclined to spend on their infrastructure.
Various things are needed for stadiums to qualify as fit for the PL, do the EFL have anything similar for their leagues?
The whole pyramid have similar clauses. Darlo got refused promotion, or told they wouldn't be promoted if they won through, because the ground didn't meet the requirements. It was just after they moved back to Darlington from West Aukland.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:35 pm

It has taken a while but here is the first proper look at what was said at that ESL hearing last month - courtesy of Matt Slater in the Athletic, at one point I thought he was going to address the point I made above about cross-border leagues - link to an archive copy to bypass the paywall

The European Super League is still fighting for survival – the battle continues
https://archive.ph/zcnDZ

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:34 pm

The great Barcelona sell off continues - yet more mortgaging the future to finance the now - it makes you think that they really need the super League going forward

from Sportico.com - link bypassed the paywall

BARCELONA SELLS ANOTHER $100M OF ITS CONTENT ARM AS SEASON OPENER LOOMS
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... 4685626%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:53 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:34 pm
The great Barcelona sell off continues - yet more mortgaging the future to finance the now - it makes you think that they really need the super League going forward

from Sportico.com - link bypassed the paywall

BARCELONA SELLS ANOTHER $100M OF ITS CONTENT ARM AS SEASON OPENER LOOMS
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... 4685626%2F
R4 this morning mentioned 25 years of future tv money being sold to US hedge fund. Also stated that Eur 1.5 billion was the biggest debt of any sports club, ever. I thought that was odd. Chelsea had £1.5 billion debt to Abramovich before the sale went through. I'm surprised to read that Fitch rates Barcelona's debt at BBB- - the bottom level of investment grade. Maybe there's some Catalonian state support that switches Barca from being a sub-investment grade "basket case." R4 compared Barca's finances with Leeds before that club went bankrupt.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:57 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:34 pm
The great Barcelona sell off continues - yet more mortgaging the future to finance the now - it makes you think that they really need the super League going forward

from Sportico.com - link bypassed the paywall

BARCELONA SELLS ANOTHER $100M OF ITS CONTENT ARM AS SEASON OPENER LOOMS
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... 4685626%2F
Some interesting thoughts from Sam Wallace in the Telegraph - which line up with a few posts of mine in recent weeks - link takes you past the paywall

Spain will rue its failure to shackle the Barcelona debt-zombie
Barça continue selling today for the possibility of an enormous pay-out somewhere in the future

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -zombie%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:08 pm

https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 7z-HcIwQbQ

A fantastic and eye opening Swiss Ramble thread on United / the Glazers.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:25 pm

Just been reading that before you posted it
It is very interesting

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:32 pm

Nothing of it is a surprise though - practically all the information is in this thread, it is a great summary though

Anyone else look at the Burnley figures as they read through, some interesting numbers for those who have not been following closely

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:42 pm

The issues with the Glazers seems to have largely turned from money to corporate incompetence. Like many corporates looking after the share price and ignoring the product is not a great idea. The difference is that football has a shorter life span.

In the end, and somewhat ironically, the money the Glazers have taken out of the club is made less significant because of their incompetence.

I don't reckon a truck load of Fred's, Van de Beek's and Wan Bissaka's are going to challenge the top 4 or 5...! In the Glazer's hands the difference between 2 billion and 1 billion is just a mid-table squad twice the size.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:02 pm

RE MULTINATIONAL LEAGUES: Just what the fans need at a time of a global economic crash. Just what the world needs as the world battles global warming…

Football really does think it exists outside the parameters that effect the rest of the world.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by levraiclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:11 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:34 pm
The great Barcelona sell off continues - yet more mortgaging the future to finance the now - it makes you think that they really need the super League going forward

from Sportico.com - link bypassed the paywall

BARCELONA SELLS ANOTHER $100M OF ITS CONTENT ARM AS SEASON OPENER LOOMS
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... 4685626%2F
This was being discussed on Talksport's Hawksbee and Jacobs show on 12th August. Andy Jacob's made a coment of "pathetic" as they were bringing on their Spanish football correspondent Graham Hunter.
Hunter took offence and went off on a rant which ended with him comparing the BFC ownership and financial structure with Barca. He ended saying " Burnley however well they do they will be running at a loss."
You can find the clip on talksport's website catch up thingy from 19 minutes after one.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:49 pm

levraiclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:11 pm
This was being discussed on Talksport's Hawksbee and Jacobs show on 12th August. Andy Jacob's made a coment of "pathetic" as they were bringing on their Spanish football correspondent Graham Hunter.
Hunter took offence and went off on a rant which ended with him comparing the BFC ownership and financial structure with Barca. He ended saying " Burnley however well they do they will be running at a loss."
You can find the clip on talksport's website catch up thingy from 19 minutes after one.
Burnley most certainly will not be running an operating loss, while they may find it tax efficient to report an overall loss, that will be most unlikely in the 2021/22 accounts for the period end of July 31 2022 - where profits should be reported though the cash position less so given all the outlays

it is possible that an impairment (in the region of £15 - £20m will be placed on the loan to CVHL from Burnley FC Holdings Limited (to match off the repayment to MSD from Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited) which when added to the cost of sacking Sean Dyche and his team will see smaller profits or a possible loss recorded (but operationally we will have made good profit in the last season)

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:58 pm

this article in the I wanders around the place a bit but is probably still worth the read

Premier League at 30: Has its ‘demise has already begun’ or will the appeal of great football endure?
On its 30th anniversary, the Premier League’s popularity is unrivalled – but the existential questions about how it will look in another three decades have not gone away

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/prem ... re-1787856

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:05 pm

Matt Slater in the Athletic looks at Debt in Football, obviously includes lots on United and Barcelona but that is very much not the whole story - link to an archive copy so non subscribers can read

Manchester United, the Glazers and why football is awash with debt

https://archive.ph/GLCt7

subscribers can view here - it is probably the best in depth football reporting site there is

https://theathletic.com/3491857/2022/08 ... -football/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:20 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:05 pm
Matt Slater in the Athletic looks at Debt in Football, obviously includes lots on United and Barcelona but that is very much not the whole story - link to an archive copy so non subscribers can read

Manchester United, the Glazers and why football is awash with debt

https://archive.ph/GLCt7

subscribers can view here - it is probably the best in depth football reporting site there is

https://theathletic.com/3491857/2022/08 ... -football/
I will also add there is a lot of well described detail in there about how debt can be used positively and why cashflow advancement (with the likes of Macquarie) particularly on transfer payments can make a lot of financial sense, as always it just depends on how you use it

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Swizzlestick » Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:15 pm

Leicester City using Macquarie Bank borrowings secured on future PL broadcasting payments. This is a renewal of a similar arrangement with the same bank. They also utilised a similar arrangement re Ben Chilwell transfer fee instalments as we did with Chris Wood and Nick Pope.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:21 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:15 pm
Leicester City using Macquarie Bank borrowings secured on future PL broadcasting payments. This is a renewal of a similar arrangement with the same bank. They also utilised a similar arrangement re Ben Chilwell transfer fee instalments as we did with Chris Wood and Nick Pope.
I recall clubs like Bolton used to borrow money using future earnings like ticket sales and TV revenue as the security

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:20 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:21 pm
I recall clubs like Bolton used to borrow money using future earnings like ticket sales and TV revenue as the security
lots of clubs promoted to the Premier League do it (we have twice in the past including season tickets the first time) - and as I pointed out in my previous post there can be sound fiscal reasons for doing so - Matt slater highlights the positives in that article

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:26 pm

this feels rather late but Deloitte have released the 31st edition of their annual report into Football Finance

you can find an overview here
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/s ... nance.html

and the full report here
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/D ... e-2022.pdf

of course historically Deloitte have made a few claims in previous reports that have seen sharp about turns in opinion in subsequent reports, much to the the rolling of the eyes of people like the chaps of Vysyble who today don't even bother to reference the report when posting this

https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1560240138835353600

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:54 pm

This fits with a number of themes that have run through this thread for some years now - from the World Football Summit Newsletter

5 INVESTMENT TRENDS IN FOOTBALL FOR 2022
https://worldfootballsummit.com/5-inves ... c39189b4fc

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:43 pm

The money pouring in from American Broadcasters into European football continues - UEFA will see a massive uplift in revenues for their club competitions - that plan by the clubs seems to be working - the downside is that the earnings of those teams that regularly play in Europe will just further distance themselves from the rest in the league - this is the point I have continually made about the role of the IREF (Independent Football Regulator) and how their roll will essentially fragment the league further

From the Athletic
UEFA strikes record deal with CBS for Champions League US TV rights
https://archive.ph/5T1io
https://theathletic.com/3521764/2022/08 ... l-usa-cbs/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:54 pm

the Daily Mail with a report about the Premier League trying to get the EFL to do its bidding - nothing new there - though parts of this make sense, just means that parachute payments will have to change drastically
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... rules.html

AHEAD OF THE GAME: Premier League wants the EFL to drop their profit and sustainability rules and instead adopt the top-flight's financial rules that allow losses of up to £105million
  • The Premier League wants the EFL to adopt their top-flight financial rules
By MATT HUGHES FOR THE DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 17:53 EDT, 19 August 2022 | UPDATED: 17:54 EDT, 19 August 2022

The Premier League want the EFL to drop their profit and sustainability (P&S) rules and adopt their own system of cost controls as the price for giving an increased funding package to the lower divisions.

Under the EFL’s existing P&S rules clubs are prevented from losing more than £39million over a three-year period, and Derby, Birmingham, Reading and Sheffield Wednesday have all been docked points for breaches in recent years.

In contrast, the top flight permit losses of up to £105m over the same period.

The Premier League are planning to introduce a version of UEFA’s new financial sustainability rules, which will limit clubs’ spending on wages, transfers and agent fees to 90 per cent of revenue from next season falling to 70 per cent from 2025-26, and want the EFL to follow suit.

Having different rules between the divisions creates problems in enforcing the regulations on clubs that have been relegated and promoted.

The 20 clubs are close to agreeing increased funding for the EFL, but want to ensure the spending rules will be harmonised before making a formal offer.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:10 am

90% of wages?
That's an immediate problem for a lot of clubs, especially that lot down the road

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:32 am

Trying to work out who are the winners and losers in that proposal. Do players start to lose out as clubs just won’t be able to pay them as much? Or is it the club that won’t be able to attract that player?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:38 am

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:32 am
Trying to work out who are the winners and losers in that proposal. Do players start to lose out as clubs just won’t be able to pay them as much? Or is it the club that won’t be able to attract that player?
Its going to be both isn't it?
If clubs are no longer allowed to pay over the top in wages then players expectations/demands will have to adjust.

Of course the club's who really benefit are those who generate large amounts of revenue but it should be interesting to see what happens.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:01 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:38 am
Its going to be both isn't it?
If clubs are no longer allowed to pay over the top in wages then players expectations/demands will have to adjust.

Of course the club's who really benefit are those who generate large amounts of revenue but it should be interesting to see what happens.
You have to remember that even the Premier League are privately acknowledging that the money distribution from themselves is going to have to change - this is all part of them getting their ducks in a row, before the IREF steps in - many championship will see most of their wage levels seem rather similar. - what will change is transfer fees (likely to drop (certainly within the EFL) and shorter term contracts like you see in Leagues 1 and 2

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:17 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:43 pm
The money pouring in from American Broadcasters into European football continues - UEFA will see a massive uplift in revenues for their club competitions - that plan by the clubs seems to be working - the downside is that the earnings of those teams that regularly play in Europe will just further distance themselves from the rest in the league - this is the point I have continually made about the role of the IREF (Independent Football Regulator) and how their roll will essentially fragment the league further

From the Athletic
UEFA strikes record deal with CBS for Champions League US TV rights
https://archive.ph/5T1io
https://theathletic.com/3521764/2022/08 ... l-usa-cbs/
Sam Wallace in the Telegraph explains in depth what I have said here about how this deal will generate even greater financial gaps in the Premier League (it will be the same across the European Leagues) - link bypasses the paywall

Greater European riches will increase divisions in the Premier League
Huge new rights deal for Uefa's club competitions threatens to exacerbate the divide in the top flight

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -league%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:21 pm

The cynical amongst us, is that just the most world weary, tend to believe that the biggest clubs have become so self entitled that they believe the world should change on their whim - take this from Barcelona, who are once again showing more front than the Great Wall of China in looking to mount a legal challenge against La Liga's tough FFP rules (which they coted in because they believe it nullified the chance for others fuelled by States/Oligarchs to surmount their status)

Barcelona considering legal action against La Liga over ‘strict FFP rules’
https://barcauniversal.com/barcelona-co ... ffp-rules/

which kind of got ne thinking about this again from the Bleacher Report - still not convinced there are better alternatives out there

5 Reasons Why the UEFA Financial Fair Play Regulations Are a Bad Idea
https://archive.ph/AmLiH

You have to say it takes a truly inept organisational, Governance and Financial structure to throw away the advantages Barcelona have - Same applies to Manchester United

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:40 pm

A great thread from Arsenal fan @SwissRamble about his club's FFP/P&S position - they have been very big spenders in the past 3 windows

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 7062700033

my favourite quote is in relation to how profits are booked on player sales "Some people might think this is a form of cheating, but it is just accounting"

Another thought looking at this is that a number of clubs appear to be getting their players in (at younger age profiles) in advance of those new UEFA financial regulations on 2023/24 (when incomes are due to surge again for those in the Champions League especially)

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:48 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:40 pm
A great thread from Arsenal fan @SwissRamble about his club's FFP/P&S position - they have been very big spenders in the past 3 windows

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 7062700033

my favourite quote is in relation to how profits are booked on player sales "Some people might think this is a form of cheating, but it is just accounting"

Another thought looking at this is that a number of clubs appear to be getting their players in (at younger age profiles) in advance of those new UEFA financial regulations on 2023/24 (when incomes are due to surge again for those in the Champions League especially)
Twitter is a bit of a nightmare for those not signed up to it these days - limits on posts you can read before demanding you login

I have just seen there is a threadreader on this one so will link here https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1561 ... 00033.html
it is so much easier

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Mattster » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:26 am

Pozzo owned Watford sell Hassane Kamara to Pozzo owned Udinese for £16m and loaned him straight back to help ease post relegation cash flow issues.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:28 am

Mattster wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:26 am
Pozzo owned Watford sell Hassane Kamara to Pozzo owned Udinese for £16m and loaned him straight back to help ease post relegation cash flow issues.
Surely the EFL should look at this as blatant **** taking

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Mattster » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:07 pm

Mattster wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:26 am
Pozzo owned Watford sell Hassane Kamara to Pozzo owned Udinese for £16m and loaned him straight back to help ease post relegation cash flow issues.
Apparently they're about to sign Pussetto from Udinese for £15m, wonder why they needed that £16m for Kamara...

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:30 pm

Mattster wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:07 pm
Apparently they're about to sign Pussetto from Udinese for £15m, wonder why they needed that £16m for Kamara...
That’s an absolute farce and surely is not allowed?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:12 pm

It is just one of the reasons why I have always been against Multi-club operations, this just sounds like swilling money around - most certainly transactions that mean nothing to circumvent the rules - The EFL will be bound by UEFA and FIFA to treat Udinese/Watford as completely separate and distinct entities and in that scenario this smells very much like the Arthur/Pjanic deal between Barcelona and Juventus that caused so much consternation and helped both clubs circumvent FFP issues

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=arthu ... nt=gws-wiz

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:05 pm

Josimar has long been a thorn in the side of FIFA, analysing many of it's worrying practises and decisions - here with the always accomplished aide of Philippe Auclair they look at a troubling French speaking African TV deal for the Quatar World Cup - it seems to be a case of the same old thing

http://josimarfootball.com/shadowlands/

Shadowlands
06/06/2022

A small Togolese TV network, NWTV, acquired the rights to the 2022 World Cup for 19 African nations, beating long-established rivals in the bidding. How did they manage to get the funds to accomplish this miracle? Information received by Josimar suggests that the miracle-maker was none other than Caf president and close Infantino ally Patrice Motsepe.

By Philippe Auclair

The announcement made by Fifa on 26 July 2021 should have remained a footnote at the bottom of a report aimed at broadcasting professionals, nothing more. The governing body had granted the regional pay-TV rights to the 2022 Men’s World Cup and the 2023 Women’s World Cup, as well as the rights to some of its lesser competitions, to a Togolese network called New World TV, or NWTV for short. NWTV would be Fifa’s exclusive pay-TV partner for the nineteen countries of the so-called ‘French-speaking sub-Saharan region’ (*). Another day, another deal – so what?

Yet, questions were raised within the industry from the outset, as there seemed to be something quasi-miraculous about NWTV’s triumph. Something incomprehensible, even.

The Miracle
For how could a previously unknown company, with zero experience of broadcasting major sports events, no international structure and apparently very modest means, be preferred to competitors – IMG, Infront and Canal +, to name but three – who could all boast of a long and successful track records in that region, and whose financial muscle could not be doubted?

Why would and how could a local TV network with an exclusively local audience – and Togo’s population is only 8.6 million inhabitants – suddenly aim for a market that had been out of its reach until then? Mutatis mutandis, as an insider put it to Josimar, it was as if a corner shop had taken on neighbouring supermarkets in a bidding war to become the area’s main distributor and had won.

And the 8 million dollar question: where did NWTV find the money to back their bid?

The first of these questions could be met with a powerful answer. As some of the people Josimar spoke to in the course of this investigation argued, NWTV’s small size and lack of experience were not insurmountable obstacles in themselves. By picking a local operator ahead of European-controlled companies, they said, Fifa had ‘made the choice of Africa’; Fifa had empowered a part of the world which still felt the undue influence of former colonial powers and wanted to shake it off. What could be wrong with that?

The other two questions were rather more difficult to provide satisfactory answers for. The exact number of active subscribers to NWTV’s almost exclusively news-driven content is difficult to ascertain. Some business sources claim that it hovers around the 30,000 mark; others claim it could be as few as 15,000. NWTV themselves, whilst not giving precise subscription figures, say that their accumulated monthly audience amounts to 565,000 unique viewers. There is no ready means to check those numbers independently; but what is clear is that NWTV’s reach cannot compare with that of rivals such as Canal + Afrique, who boast about over 4 million subscribers in the region. Fifa took a huge, unprecedented gamble if its intention was to ensure that its 2022 World Cup would reach as many homes in French-speaking sub-Saharan as possible.

Show Me The Money!
This raises the central issue of NWTV’s ability to raise the money needed to bid for those rights and, if successful, to pay the estimated 15 million US dollars those rights are said to have cost (*); as NWTV didn’t have this money.

The Togolese network currently offers five packages to its customers, whose prices range from 1,500 to 15,000 West African Francs (their ‘King’ option) per month, that is to say from 2,5 to 25 dollars.

According to Josimar sources, the bank guarantee which the would-be broadcasters had to provide Fifa with to enter the bidding process for its pay-TV World Cup rights in the region was 8 million US dollars, close to 5 billion West African Francs – the equivalent of 330,000 subscribers paying the most expensive package offered by NWTV. The Togolese network was clearly incapable of financing the deal by itself.

This led some in the region to suggest that NWTV’s bid had been supported by the Togolese president, Faure Gnassingbé, whose family has governed the country since a coup staged in April 1967. Others went as far as saying that the Gnassingbé family was the ultimate owner of the network. These assertions were denied by associates of NWTV’s director-general Kolani Nimonka when they were put to them by The Africa Report magazine last May. “There is no public money at all in New World TV”, they insisted.

So where did the funds come from? And how was NWTV able to strike another major coup in March 2022, when they secured the rights to a number of UEFA’s international competitions – including Euro 2024 – in the face of similar competition? The outlay far exceeded the company’s resources. Someone had had to step in to enable the minuscule company to honour its commitments.

The Broker
NWTV had called on the services of a familiar figure in the landscape of broadcasting in French-speaking Africa: Rome-based French national Richard Dimosi Diasolwa, whose own company, Media Business Solutions (MBS), has, in the space of eight years, become a significant actor in the region, striking deals with, among others, La Liga, Ligue 1, UEFA and Fifa. MBS, however, is not a broadcaster, but an agency which acquires rights and then sells them on.

When approached by Josimar, Mr Dimosi told us that, “First and foremost, MBS as well as Richard Dimosi Diasolwa personnaly (sic) have acted at all times on behalf of New World TV: there was never any flow of money nor consultancy agreement between FIFA, and MBS nor Mr Dimosi Diasolwa [and] second, the rights have been acquired through a media rights tender process which was run in the most transparent way as per international best practice.”

“Last and more importantly”, Mr Dimosi went on, “concerning New World TV’s project and objectives, I can only tell you that this is an extremely ambitious project, built by Africans for Africans, promising to watch the best sports competitions at the most affordable price. Would media rights tenders be reserved to European companies only? This is a very strange view of the competition”.

When asked about the particulars of the NWTV deal, Mr Diwosi said that, as he was “bound by an obligation of confidentiality towards FIFA”, Josimar should address “any and all relevant questions to Fifa should [they] want more details”. Josimar did, and received the following reply: “The agreement with New World TV followed the standard compliance process,” and that was that. A follow-up list of detailed questions was sent but has been left unanswered by Fifa so far.

The main interrogation remained. Regardless of Richard Dimosi’s extensive contacts and skill at playing the market, it was not MBS which had provided NWTV with the means to succeed in their bid for the World Cup rights. It was someone else. Dimosi had been a facilitator, nothing more.

In The Shadow Of The President
This ‘someone’, Josimar has learnt, was Ecobank Transnational Inc, the largest independent bank in Western and Central Africa, who stepped in to loan the 8 million dollars needed to enter the bidding for the Fifa rights. So far, so good: Ecobank is an established, trusted banking organisation; but NWTV could only borrow such a huge sum from Ecobank if they, in turn, could call on a guarantor for their loan. Their own assets were insufficient for that purpose. Whoever that guarantor was must provide the backing for NWTV’s bold enterprise.

According to information received by Josimar, this guarantor was a South African company, Sanlam, a financial services group which is also the largest insurance company in Africa.

Sanlam’s largest shareholder is a South African investment fund called Ubuntu-Botho Investments (UBI). And who is UBI’s majority shareholder? None other than CAF president and Gianni Infantino ally Patrice Motsepe, who holds 55 percent of its shares.

It is not by chance that Sanlam is often referred to in South Africa as ‘Motespe’s Sanlam’ (*) and always appears in the list of assets held by the mining multi-billionaire drawn by business publications when they profile the CAF president (*).

This meant that NWTV had been able to bid for and acquire the rights to Fifa competitions, including the 2022 World Cup, thanks to the indirect financial backing of a company whose links to the most powerful man in African football are a matter of record.

Josimar contacted NWTV and Sanlam to confirm the information we had received. No response has been forthcoming from either. Questions were also put to Mr Motsepe, which have also yet to produce an answer.

The silence which has greeted Josimar’s enquiries can only leave us with other interrogations. Did the CAF President intervene personally to make sure that NWTV, a company with no experience, a very limited audience and almost no resources of its own, could bid for – and win – broadcasting rights for the world’s number one global tournament?

If so, did this not constitute a clear conflict of interest? And how could Fifa sanction such a deal?

As to NWTV, proud rights-holders of Fifa – and UEFA – competitions broadcasting rights, the future looks bright, that is: provided they find partners to improve on their current offer.

The first test of their capacity to broadcast a major competition throughout the region, beyond the boundaries of Togo, came when the UEFA Nations League kicked off at the beginning of this month. France, the title holder and world champion, were hosting Denmark, a game which was bound to attract a great deal of interest in French-speaking Africa. Unfortunately for those who lived outside of Togo, images of that match proved elusive. NWTV had failed to put the necessary partnerships in place in time. Other miracles might need to happen before the World Cup starts next November.

(*) This region comprises nineteen countries: Benin, Burundi, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Democratic Republic of Congo, Republic of Congo, Ivory Coast, Gabon, Guinea, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritius, Niger, Rwanda, Sénégal, Seychelles and Togo. NWTV were also awarded the free-to-air rights for Togo itself.

(*) Neither Fifa nor NWTV have responded to Josimar’s request for an exact figure.

(*) https://billionaires.africa/patrice-mot ... -managers/

(*) For an overview of Patrice Motsepe’s business empire, see: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/business ... -owns.html and https://mg.co.za/article/2019-05-03-00- ... ow-empire/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:09 pm

Meanwhile despite many claims to the opposite Qatar's poor treatment of those who have worked on building the infrastructure for the World Cup continues

Qatar deports migrants after wage protest, rights group says
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east ... group-says

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:23 pm

I have been against UEFA's Co-efficient payments from the outset, though I understand why Europe's other big clubs wanted to stop the lob-sided payments to English clubs (English TV paid the most for the rights) now there is a story that efforts are being made to change/reduce/remove them - one thing for sure is that the biggest clubs are still likely to want to benefit the most - from the Times - link to an Archive copy to avoid the paywall

Uefa under pressure to change funding model that favours big European clubs
https://archive.ph/kpI6h

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:48 pm

Interesting stuff from Simon Chadwick in the Czech magazine Football Club - this is an abbreviated online version of the article

https://www-footballclub-cz.translate.g ... r_pto=wapp

Let's not be blind. Football cleans dirty money and helps putinization of sport
SIMON CHADWICK
August 24, 2022

Football is undergoing a turbulent transformation, over the past 30 years it has become a fiercely commercial environment as well as a breeding ground for authoritarian regimes and other geopolitical predators. If we don't want dirty money in it, we have to systematically close the arms that are still wide open.

People often say that politics and sports should not be mixed. But politics has always been a part of sports, and I can't even imagine how it would be possible to completely separate politics from sports, from football. Even such basic decisions as whether 90 minutes will be played, eleven players against eleven, whether the offside rule will apply, whether teams will play against each other at home and away each season, what they will wear on their jerseys, these are essentially political decisions . So whether people like it or not, politics is a necessary part of football. But I feel that in the last thirty years we have witnessed the formation of new and different forms of networks of political relations in sport and specifically in football. There are several reasons.

Among them is the fall of communism. In 1992, the book The End of History by Francis Fukuyama was published, in which he claims that communism has fallen and capitalism has won. Ideologically, therefore, since then we have seen sports develop in line with North American economic and political principles. I am an economist, so I can say that the sport of the last thirty years is built on the principles of classical economics. Sport is a commodity, the market makes decisions about the distribution of resources, business returns or intentions determine what will happen. So clubs like Manchester United , Liverpool , AS Roma, Olympique Marseille and others can be understood as organizations operating on North American neoclassical economic foundations(the neoclassical approach considers supply and demand to be decisive economic factors, one of the directions of mainstream economics - editor's note) .

At the same time, there has been globalization in the last thirty years, and it is happening at the same time as structural changes in countries like China. The same applies to countries such as Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia. They try to use the profits from their natural resources to develop their countries and economic diversification. And to top it all off, some former communist countries aligned themselves with the West and its neoclassical economic principles. However, we are also witnessing this, and I am referring to Russia in particular , that some countries held different ideological positions.

Another ingredient in this mix is, of course, digitization, the development of the Internet and social networks, changing ways of distributing content, challenges for existing revenue models, for example in the field of sports broadcasting. It has become globalized, but at the same time it has changed its nature. So we are witnessing a mixture of intense ideological and operational changes, and we find ourselves at a time when all these diverse factors are acting simultaneously. In the last five years, we have thus seen a strong increase in Chinese, state-led investment. The Russian state was also very heavily involved in sports. Qatar and other Arab countries invest heavily in sports, again it is controlled by the state. And we can also talk about others - Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Vietnam, to some extent also South Korea and Japan. These are many Asian countries, reflecting the global economic turnaround.

So we are in times of ideological polarization in sport. Take the city of Manchester for example. On one side you have American businessmen guided by neoclassical economic principles as the owners of Manchester United, on the other side is Manchester City , a club owned by a Gulf state whose motives can be called geopolitical-economic. It is about money , about income, about return on investment, but at the same time about "soft power" - about building a country's brand and building networks and spheres of influence in the world. That's where we are now. And it's not just the work of the last five, ten years. It is the result of various, complex factors that converge and interact at the same time.

Digitization, globalization, environmental issues, energy, etc. All play a role. I call it "giga changes" and it is very difficult for an individual fan, for a club, but also for a single league or competition to change these things. It's a historical period dominated by geopolitical economy, and I think it's important to break down ideas about it. What really happens - decisions are made based on geographical, political and economic factors. And it can be seen most obviously in what Qatar has been doing in the last ten years.

It works through ownership, sponsorship, event management, influence of media organizations like beIN SPORTS. It's about gaining access to control resources, so for example China has been actively practicing "stadium diplomacy" in Africa for over a decade to gain access to rare natural resources. That's why he builds stadiums there for free , often football stadiums. But it manifests itself in many different ways.

Putinization of sport
In the case of Russia, instead of terms like "soft power" or "sportswashing", I use the term "Putinization of sports". This is because soft power means trying to impress people and convince them that you want the same things as them. And convincing them of this allows you to have influence, to have some degree of control over them. For example, the British do this through the Premier League . In cooperation with the British Council, she runs the Premier Skills project, which teaches people around the world English using football and the Premier League. The British use football as a platform for this.

So it's not just about Russia and Putin. It is not just a tool of authoritarian countries. It does a lot of them. In addition to the British and football, we can cite the NBA as a good example. Of course, there are elements of soft power in what Putin and Russia are doing. Take the 2018 World Cup for example. Many people who attended left the tournament with an image of Russia as a great, hospitable and safe country where they were treated with respect. The picture of Russia after the 2018 World Cup was different than before. We can call this soft power.

In contrast, sportswashing is something more insidious. It's a diversionary tactic with the clear intention of distracting people from anything you don't want them to perceive. But Putinization means something else to me, because neither "soft power" nor "sportswashing" has the purpose of antagonizing others. On the contrary - it's about liking. Whereas, in my opinion, Putin deliberately used sport as part of his hostility towards others.

I like to use the metaphor that Putin wanted people to follow his right hand and not his left. And while he seduced the right people, he struck them with the left. He seduced them by hosting the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics, then struck three weeks later with the annexation of Crimea. Or this year at the Olympic Games in Beijing - the right hand stunned us with the performances of figure skater Valievová, and a week later we learned that she was doping. I think this destructive influence on sports is neither soft power nor sportswashing. It is an effort to make the sports world do what Russia wants. And Russia dictates, cheats and forces the sports world to dance as Moscow whistles.

Putinization is a bipolar policy that seeks to cultivate discord. Its intention is to divide, deceive, mislead, undermine, sow discord among people in the world sports community so that they do not agree with each other and that there is no unified view of Russia. And now we see it - the view of Russia is not uniform. We may agree on it in Europe, but it is not shared by the whole world. I think this effort to drive a wedge in sports between different stakeholders is exactly what Putin set as a goal from the start.

The doping program is the best example of this. The global sports community still hasn't decided how to deal with Russian doping. Many people believed that the goal was to improve performance. No - the aim was to undermine the basic structures governing world sport. We saw it in Beijing as well – Russian athletes were still there, still doping, still dividing and creating controversy. This was precisely the intention of Putin and Russia from the beginning.

The end of football romance
The European view of football has its roots in the 19th century and around 1900. According to him, football represents the public good. It's a very utilitarian view. This direction evaluates actions according to how much benefit it will bring. When we think about football at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries, it was about communities, cities, industrial areas, entire countries. For people to have access to this game as players or spectators. Even back then, there was industry money in football and there were very few grassroots clubs owned directly by members in Europe. So a local powerful patron always played a role in football. It can therefore be argued that in this sense it did not originate as a folk game, patrons always had a leading role.

If we go through the 20th century in relation to dangerous money and power in football, we see the rise of North American influence. The sports model there is very neoclassical. Football has become much more of a private commodity, much more emphasis is placed on the market and money. Let's keep in mind that the NBA was created only in 1950, based on sponsorship, merchandising, broadcast contracts and the development of foreign markets. This was foreign to European football at the time, actually until the last quarter of the 20th century, when the principles of neoclassical economics began to penetrate it as well.

I already mentioned 1992 and Francis Fukuyama. In the same year, the Premier League was also created and one of its basic purposes of existence was to produce money. This was completely consistent with the neoclassical principles from America, but also with the economics of Thatcherism (according to the conservative politician, supporter of the free market and British Prime Minister 1979-1990 Margaret Thatcher - editor's note) . In addition, also in 1992, UEFA transformed the UEFA Champions League into the Champions League, in a very similar fashion.

How to get dirty money from football? And why do the fans have to open their eyes? What good is Slavia for China? Why did Daniel Křetínský buy a stake in West Ham and is it also sportwashing in his case? You can find out everything in the complete text, which you can find in the current issue of the printed Football Club . By ordering a single issue or, even better, a subscription, you support FC activities. Thank you!

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:57 pm

A number who follow this thread will be old enough to remember the absolute outrage Figo's transfer to Real Madrid from Barcelona generated (including pigs heads) - tomorrow sees a new documentary on the matter released on Netflix - could be interesting - just who needed/wanted the money?

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1 ... 7375820800

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:25 pm

When reading the opening section of this piece some may see comparisons even hope for our club - they would be wrong, this is a very different kind of story even if (and we have to hope so) our club has similar on - pitch fortunes

The first of a two-parter from Dominic Fifield in The Athletic - link to an archive copy to by pass the paywall

Inside a football club – part one: Rising from the ashes
https://archive.ph/oNKkt

though if you can afford it I would recommend a subscription

https://theathletic.com/3526081/2022/08 ... ball-club/

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