Football's Magic Money Tree

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ClaretPete001
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:12 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:08 pm
The part I don’t get about the ALK model is who would want to invest but not run it? Maybe this type of guy - who wants a hand in an exciting and global sport but has a big business to run. Or maybe, as CP alludes, this is just a precursor to an ultimate takeover.

This must be very encouraging to AP though - that there’s willing wealthy investors looking to buy in to a similarly sized club.
I would guess Alan Pace knows where he stands in terms of being an investment proposition but yes he will no doubt be encouraged by this...!

Quite why someone would buy a minority stake in a small town club I don’t know unless it is a pre-cursor to a takeover. Even then I’m not convinced of the business model if I was I would be less concerned about ALK.

Outside of PL broadcast rights there is literally almost nothing to most of these small clubs.

So, I don't get It but clearly a wealthy investor looking to dip his toe into the English football business could do a lot worse than NorwichI. In return Norwich have a wealthy Investor at arms length.

Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:56 am

After a summer when Wolves were one of Europe's biggest spenders over the summer it seems owners Fosun are having some serious financial challenges - it could be an interesting season for Wolves particularly the January window if performances/results don't pick up

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/statu ... 4737693696

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:20 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:15 pm
No real surprise that Bournemouth appear to be up for sale

AFC Bournemouth Owner Revives Sale of Premier League Club
Owner Maxim Demin has appointed California-based advisory firm
Club was promoted to lucrative English Premier League

https://archive.ph/kxvZE
well that didn't take long

Bournemouth takeover possible as US consortium prepares £150m bid
Current owner Maxim Demin reportedly weighing up offer
Deal would mean 11 Premier League clubs had US shareholders

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-150m-bid

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:33 am

It has been a while since we saw this from the Premier League - earnings totals for the 2021/22 season

Image

Our numbers are in line with expectations and the tv appearance payment provide the huge gap to gap to Leeds
full story

REVEALED: Manchester City claimed £153MILLION in prize money after winning the Premier League last season... while Norwich became the first side to earn more than £100m despite finishing bottom in 2021-22
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... eason.html

RVclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:16 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:33 am
It has been a while since we saw this from the Premier League - earnings totals for the 2021/22 season

Image

Our numbers are in line with expectations and the tv appearance payment provide the huge gap to gap to Leeds
full story

REVEALED: Manchester City claimed £153MILLION in prize money after winning the Premier League last season... while Norwich became the first side to earn more than £100m despite finishing bottom in 2021-22
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... eason.html
That gap to Leeds because of TV appearances is incredible.

Just shows, despite us being in the PL for 6 seasons, there was little interest in showing our games (style of football?).

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:14 pm

https://twitter.com/BaitVic/status/1570534216466862081

Wasn't sure which thread to put this on but give this twitter thread a read on Watford and Mogi Bayat (agent to a lot of their players).

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:31 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:14 pm
https://twitter.com/BaitVic/status/1570534216466862081

Wasn't sure which thread to put this on but give this twitter thread a read on Watford and Mogi Bayat (agent to a lot of their players).
Very much fits on this thread and a very interesting read

Was it only last week I was being mocked on the takeover thread for the breadth of my searches at Companies House and elsewhere - this is how fans gain insight to the otherwise secretive dealings at their clubs - we should all be thankful for these laws of disclosure (and many wish for greater transparency).
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:49 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:20 am
well that didn't take long

Bournemouth takeover possible as US consortium prepares £150m bid
Current owner Maxim Demin reportedly weighing up offer
Deal would mean 11 Premier League clubs had US shareholders

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-150m-bid
Interesting article about the prospective buyers of Bournemouth in the Guardian also a nice element on how American owners are financing some of their investments in European football.

[b]Ice hockey’s Bill Foley heads US group pushing to buy Bournemouth
Foley, owner of Vegas Golden Knights, in talks to purchase club
He provided €523m credit facility for Textor’s bid to buy Lyon[/b]
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... n-knightsl

as long as Canae are only providing finance/credit to Eagle Football then it is unlikely that the authorities would block this takeover - if it becomes an investment stake-holding then things would become very different given the size of Textor's holding in Crystal Palace

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:28 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:56 am
After a summer when Wolves were one of Europe's biggest spenders over the summer it seems owners Fosun are having some serious financial challenges - it could be an interesting season for Wolves particularly the January window if performances/results don't pick up

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/statu ... 4737693696
there is a nice little segway between the Wolves and Bournemouth stories and that is that Peak6 (An American investment firm- naturally) used to be minor shareholders in Bournemouth (and also Swansea) but have held a minor shareholding in Wolves for just over a year now (though that was PR'd as being for the gaming side of Wolves which is a large Chinese focused operation). The current Fosun situation does present Peak6 with a Premier League ownership opportunity though.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:44 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:28 pm
there is a nice little segway between the Wolves and Bournemouth stories and that is that Peak6 (An American investment firm- naturally) used to be minor shareholders in Bournemouth (and also Swansea) but have held a minor shareholding in Wolves for just over a year now (though that was PR'd as being for the gaming side of Wolves which is a large Chinese focused operation). The current Fosun situation does present Peak6 with a Premier League ownership opportunity though.
That option for Peak6 has been played out at City Football Group where Silver Lake have bought up some of the shareholding of China Media Capital, which means the Americans are now the 2nd largest shareholders in CFG

from the FT - link to an archive copy of the article to avoid paywall issues

Silver Lake ups stake in Manchester City owner
Renowned tech investor has turned its sights on sport and is now second-largest shareholder in City Football Group

https://archive.ph/zroJ0

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:58 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:49 pm
Interesting article about the prospective buyers of Bournemouth in the Guardian also a nice element on how American owners are financing some of their investments in European football.

[b]Ice hockey’s Bill Foley heads US group pushing to buy Bournemouth
Foley, owner of Vegas Golden Knights, in talks to purchase club
He provided €523m credit facility for Textor’s bid to buy Lyon[/b]
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... n-knightsl

as long as Canae are only providing finance/credit to Eagle Football then it is unlikely that the authorities would block this takeover - if it becomes an investment stake-holding then things would become very different given the size of Textor's holding in Crystal Palace
People on here questioned the valuation of Burnley when we were sold, there's absolutely no way Bournemouth are worth £150 million when they need a brand new stadium and training facilities etc

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:00 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:44 pm
That option for Peak6 has been played out at City Football Group where Silver Lake have bought up some of the shareholding of China Media Capital, which means the Americans are now the 2nd largest shareholders in CFG

from the FT - link to an archive copy of the article to avoid paywall issues

Silver Lake ups stake in Manchester City owner
Renowned tech investor has turned its sights on sport and is now second-largest shareholder in City Football Group

https://archive.ph/zroJ0
@Marcotti with a point I have made before about CFG and it's investment relationships

At some level, these things go round in circles. Manchester City's chairman is also the CEO of Mubadala who own a 5 percent stake in Silver Lake who then increase their stake in City, becoming the 2nd biggest shareholders.

https://twitter.com/Marcotti/status/1570726765072613381

Mubadala is effectively the Qatari version of Saudi Arabia's PIF (which owns Newcastle). This hugely intricate web would also take in India's Reliance Industries and Japan's Softbank (which also counts PIF as a major investor)

this post from almost 21 months back may refresh some detail for those who are interested
Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:14 pm
The single biggest example of Private Equity in club football is City Football group - no longer just a state project - Private Equity shareholders from China and USA are now involved (I would not be in the least bit surprised if India's Reliance invests at some point). In many ways they have re-invented what it is to be a club owner. This from that SportPro Creative Capital series in January gives an overview (note that since this was published City have bought a club in Belgium and they are in advanced stages of buying one in France)

‘It’s thoroughly complex’: How City Football Group is redefining soccer club ownership
Now valued at US$4.8 billion, City Football Group and its global network of eight clubs has no direct comparison in the world of soccer. Omar Berrada, CFG’s chief operating officer, explains how a commitment to doing things differently has seen the company come to represent a sports organisation of the future.

Posted: January 27 2020By: Sam Carp

City Football Group (CFG) is no ordinary soccer club owner, but that is because it never set out to be one in the traditional sense. The aim from the outset was to do things differently.

“Innovation has always been a key component of our strategy, whether it’s innovating in terms of the business model, or even on the pitch,” notes Omar Berrada (below, right), chief operating officer at CFG. “It’s always something that we’ve tried to do as we’ve grown over the last years.”

To say that such an approach is paying off would be an understatement. Established in 2013, CFG now boasts a valuation of US$4.8 billion – the biggest for an organisation of its kind – after Silicon Valley-based technology investment firm Silver Lake bought a ten per cent stake in the company late last year. For those at CFG, Silver Lake did more than hand over a US$500 million cheque; it also provided the biggest endorsement to date that the various pieces of the organisation’s global puzzle are falling into place.

“They’ve decided to invest in us because they see the CFG model as a platform that in football is different,” Berrada declares. “[It’s] unique, innovative and has generated an enormous amount of value for our club shareholders, and will continue to generate that value over the coming years.

“Their background is mostly in technology, but in general as a firm they’ve been very successful. So for somebody with those credentials to come in and invest in City Football Group is a testament to the work that has been done over the years.”

When Berrada speaks of that progress, he rattles off accomplishments that would suggest CFG’s rise has been decades in the making. But while its ubiquity and swift success might give the impression of a company that has been part of soccer’s furniture for some time, the truth is that – in sporting terms – much of that growth has been achieved overnight.

But with that in mind, it is worth considering what, exactly, convinced a company like Silver Lake – the self-described global leader in technology investing that counts Chinese ecommerce giant Alibaba and agency behemoth Endeavor among US$43 billion worth of combined assets – to make CFG its first investment in soccer.

To think of CFG is of course to think of Manchester City, a once modest English soccer club who blended into the crowd, but who have morphed into a finely-tuned, title-winning machine since being taken over by Abu Dhabi in 2008. The reigning Premier League champions remain CFG’s crown jewel, but the organisation has grown its portfolio to include eight teams, most recently planting flags in China and India to add to clubs in the United States, Australia, Japan, Uruguay and Spain. It is an acquisition strategy that knows no equal in the world of soccer, and one more closely aligned to the art of multiple franchise ownership seen commonly in North America.

When CFG announced its investments in third-tier Chinese outfit Sichuan Jiuniu FC – a deal that was aided by CFG’s minority shareholder China Media Capital - and Indian Super League (ISL) side Mumbai City FC, it completed an important triangle. In the world’s most populous countries – ones with gargantuan economies and burgeoning tech markets - CFG now considers itself precisely where it needs to be.

“When we set out as City Football Group, the three big markets we always had in mind were the US, China and India, right from the beginning,” Berrada reveals. “For the most part we were able to go to the US very quickly. We then thought about China and India, but ultimately we didn’t want to go to those markets without having the right partner.

“We’ve got into a position now where we’re very comfortable with the people that we’re working with in such key markets, markets that have grown so quickly over the last years from an economic perspective and have interesting socio-demographics. The interest in football is also growing very fast, so if you look at the combination, we think the idiosyncrasies are very interesting, and now being able to have a physical presence there, to be able to help and continue to develop football in those territories, is fascinating.

“It will also continue to help us to grow our partnerships. A lot of departments that we have been speaking to for, I would say the last six years, have been asking: ‘what are you doing in the US? What are you doing in China? What are you doing in India? How does that look for the future?’. And now we have a clear vision in those territories.

“So I think we’ve created a network of clubs that gives us an ability to develop our commercial presence, our fan engagement ability, as well as our football platform.”

To think of CFG, then, is also to think of a business that leans on technology more than most – with over 2,000 employees and 1,500 players around the world, it would be fair to say that it has to. And given the rate at which the organisation has spread its tentacles since being established, it is unsurprising that technology has come to underpin an intricate global network whose influence now spans various continents and time zones.

“It’s absolutely critical,” Berrada says of technology’s role from an operational standpoint. “We have eight clubs, so we are a thoroughly complex football organisation – I would say more complex than most. We approach our businesses in terms of what kinds of technology can help us manage this business where we have eight clubs, multiple offices around the world, a large network of scouts and consultants, and commercial and marketing team members based all over the world serving these different clubs.

“So the usage of technology helps us to stay connected to our staff, to our partners, to our fans, and we really have made an effort to find the right partners that can help us develop those tools to be able to do everything.”

As the 2020s dawn, it is hardly groundbreaking for a high-ranking executive working in top-level sport to highlight the mounting significance of technology, but in this case Berrada is able to point to several examples of that in action. A far-reaching deal signed in October with Cisco was completed with the intention of enhancing connectivity at five of CFG’s clubs. Prior to that, at the end of 2018, Manchester City penned a multi-year partnership with cloud software company Acronis that is designed to better manage and protect the performance and operational data collected by the club. Every deal, it seems, is signed to improve performance on and off the pitch.

“Given our strategic positioning and our focus on innovation and technology, I think we’ve created a platform that is very attractive for top brands to be able to roll out their technologies and work with us to continue developing them,” Berrada declares. “At the same time, primarily it is about using those technologies to create the best experiences for our fans, to be as efficient as we can in terms of managing our systems internally.

“What we want is genuine integration with our partners, so that when they’re out there talking about the benefits of working with us, it’s based on real case studies both on and off the pitch, so I think that’s been a key component of our commercial success. And also, through the fact that we’re finding these top brands and top partners are working with us, it’s also helping us a little bit on the pitch, because they’re able in some cases to create that added benefit and incremental improvement in our performances.”

With that last point in mind, Berrada is particularly keen to draw attention to a sponsorship deal with German software specialist SAP, whose equipment is regularly used by City manager Pep Guardiola, his coaching staff and players.

“If we talk about SAP, there are three areas of the relationship, so we say from the boardroom to the pitch,” he explains. “On the one hand we’re using their business systems, their ERP systems, for our finance partners, for our business management tools, etc, to help us become a lot more effective and efficient.

“The second element of the partnership is around football. There has been a lot of focus on using data to maximise the performance of our players, so we work with SAP to generate the best insights from the data that has been generated to help find the incremental upside in the performance of our players and coaches.

“Then, finally, the third element of the SAP relationship is a fan component, so how we can use the data that has been generated – whether it’s around what’s happening on the pitch or outside the pitch – to improve the experience for our fans either using digital platforms such as our app, or in-bowl.”

For CFG, though, its interest now extends far beyond simply taking advantage of the technologies that are already out there. At the start of 2019, the group was named as the anchor investor in Sapphire Sport, a new US$115 million venture capital fund launched by Sapphire Ventures. Focused on technology and digital sports, the fund plans to make between five and six startup investments of between US$3 million and US$7 million each year.

The fund launched with an existing portfolio including live streaming platform Mycujoo, digital sports network Overtime, and gaming studio Phoenix Labs. Berrada notes that it has already allowed CFG to explore “very interesting areas” such as esports, digital health and fitness, and next-generation media.

It’s giving us a really first-hand insight and the ability to be first movers in the world of tech and entertainment. We want to be part of that, we want to be at the forefront of that.

“It’s definitely helped us open our minds up to the different ideas, technologies around,” he adds. “Say, ticketing solutions that actually make sense. Things like data analytics clearly are things we’ve been looking at for a few years now, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t new services and new approaches that are different to what we’ve already adopted. So I would say it’s a mixture of areas that we had already been looking at, but looking for new ideas in those sectors, and at the same time opening our minds up to new technologies that we hadn’t considered initially.”

As Berrada talks SportsPro through CFG’s various technology interests, it becomes easier to connect the dots. At the very top level, CFG will now benefit from the entrepreneurial expertise of Silver Lake, whose managing director Egon Durban has become the organisation’s ninth board member. Berrada points out that while the relationship with Silver Lake “is still very young”, the partnership will allow CFG “to tap into their knowhow of the tech industry” and “also into their contacts”, noting that its new investor will “be able to suggest and put us in touch with people that fit in well with what we’re trying to do”.

Then, at the other end of the scale, are initiatives like Sapphire Sports, allowing CFG to “actively participate as investors”, Berrada says, and potentially take ownership of what he describes as “hopefully the next big idea in the world of sports and entertainment”. Then there remains everything in between.

“It’s giving us a really first-hand insight and the ability to be first movers in the world of tech and entertainment,” Berrada explains. “If you think about how that’s starting to merge and the experience it’s creating for fans all over the world, it’s absolutely fascinating, and we want to be part of that, we want to be at the forefront of that.

“The combination of having the likes of China Media Capital, Silver Lake, as well as our investments in Sapphire, puts us in a really good position to be able to tap into their knowhow network, and really get a close insight on those technologies, services and tools that will help us on and off the pitch over the coming years.”

As has already been well documented elsewhere, CFG’s path to this point was mapped out some time ago in a 2009 book by Ferran Soriano, then fresh from a stint as vice president of Spanish soccer giants FC Barcelona. In it Soriano, who is now CFG’s chief executive, prophesised the transformation of soccer clubs into global entertainment businesses more akin to Disney or Warner Bros., money-making vehicles that could convert success into merchandise sales and their stadiums into theme park equivalents. And, as Soriano was seemingly all too aware, Disney is nothing without its content – that is, after all, the root from which all other branches of the media giant’s business have grown.

It is therefore unsurprising to find that Manchester City in particular have drastically evolved their content offering under CFG’s watch. They were the first soccer club to feature in an Amazon ‘All or Nothing’ docuseries, a move Berrada describes as “bold and brave”, and one he says “probably set the bar in terms of what football clubs will be doing for the next years”. The past year has also seen the club launch its own over-the-top (OTT) streaming subscription service and partner with Intel to trial the company’s True View immersive viewing technology, while they most recently became the first team to create their own channel on YouTube Kids.


“We want to make football more accessible for more people around the world, and that goes beyond just what happens on the pitch,” says Berrada. “We want to ensure that our clubs are able to compete and win as many trophies as possible, playing a specific style of football, beautiful football that is attractive for our fans around the world.

“We’ll continue making sure that we use all the different digital platforms available to us - whether it’s the club app, whether it’s launching the recent OTT service, we want to make sure that we are as ubiquitous as possible in terms of reaching out to our fans.

“We have millions and millions of followers around the world, and most of them will never have a chance to come to the Etihad Stadium, or to watch a game in New York or in Yokohama, but they’re still very much engaged with us, so we spend a lot of time thinking about how we can provide that content that creates that emotional connection, that creates that conversation, that dialogue, both between our clubs and our fans, but also between our fans, so that’s what we try to do – we try to create content that’s good for them, that is meaningful.”

There is little doubt, then, that CFG sees itself as a soccer organisation of the future. At a time when many sports team owners may wish to avoid referring to their clubs as money-making, global entertainment businesses, those at CFG are under no illusion as to what the end goal is.

“I think we’re definitely getting there,” Berrada observes, when asked whether CFG is close to achieving Soriano’s target of operating more like a company in the mould of Disney.

“If you think about the global nature of football, the number of people that watch the game, that participate in the game, that play it, it’s the number one sport in the world. The beauty of the City Football Group model or organisation is that we are present in so many different territories and so many different platforms that, really, football is happening in one shape or another every single day of the year - whether it’s the game, whether it’s a trophy tour, a fan viewing session, an activation with some of our partners, there’s something going on everyday within City Football Group and across the world.

“So I think in that sense, yes, we are maybe becoming more similar to Disney than to traditional football clubs – we are an entertainment group in that sense because we are able to provide entertainment on and off the pitch across the globe.”

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:04 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:58 pm
People on here questioned the valuation of Burnley when we were sold, there's absolutely no way Bournemouth are worth £150 million when they need a brand new stadium and training facilities etc
yes, it is expensive, but this is for the whole shareholding, that would have put our club over £200m in the middle of the pandemic. You need to factor in just how different the exchange rates are at the moment - what the current price is valuing is the TV monies (even on immediate relegation there is the guarantee of almost £75m on top of this season's income
Last edited by Chester Perry on Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:04 pm
...

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:13 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:44 pm
That option for Peak6 has been played out at City Football Group where Silver Lake have bought up some of the shareholding of China Media Capital, which means the Americans are now the 2nd largest shareholders in CFG

from the FT - link to an archive copy of the article to avoid paywall issues

Silver Lake ups stake in Manchester City owner
Renowned tech investor has turned its sights on sport and is now second-largest shareholder in City Football Group

https://archive.ph/zroJ0
should say that while this is news today it actually happened almost a year ago

https://twitter.com/ManCityBrazil/statu ... 0037192705

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:19 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:46 am
Well, that hasn't taken long, has it? Todd Boehly is already trying to make changes to the game in this country, no concern for the number of games players are being asked to play it seems or understanding of what FIFA/UEFA are trying to limit on the game at domestic levels. This without considering the impact of the play-offs for the EFL/National League which are vital components of their broadcast deals, at a time when currently there is no real direct airtime competition football wise for them

Todd Boehly calls for 'north versus south all-star' game and four-team league to decide relegation
Chelsea's chairman says learning from US sports could help the Premier League raise more money and explains Thomas Tuchel's sacking

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... four-team/
In today's Reading the Game newsletter Miguel Delaney emphasises the most significant part of what Todd Boehly had to say the other day - and adds what to some, will be startling statistical information, into the mix

Boehly's most important comment overlooked

While Todd Boehly’s comments about an All Star game generated so many headlines, far more relevant to the future of the game was his broaching of Chelsea starting yet another multi-club approach. This is one other element that has evolved in the game without much discussion or elaboration, and yet is starting to transform it. Deloitte’s last financial report estimated that there are over 70 multi-club projects in the game, which is more than double the 28 of even five years ago. The most famous of those are City Football Group, Red Bull and the Pozzos but the idea has taken hold. It is a situation that provokes a number of discussions, that football hasn’t really dealt with at all. Is this actually good for the club’s involved? What does it do for identity? Is it just servicing the super clubs? Many in the game are now wondering whether this will be the only way for other clubs to survive, to almost be “minor league” teams. Should Uefa be more proactive about this? As ever with football, it has been too slow to react. By the time it does so - as with state takeovers - too many have happened for proper regulation to be in place. Some in the game weren’t as resistant to Boehly’s headline plan, though. A few figures have pointed out how it makes more sense from a sports science point of view than far-flung pre-season tours.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:03 pm

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/15 ... atGqQ&s=19

Brighton noticed they'd made some errors in transfers and reported themselves to the FA, fairplay.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:18 am

The media (am we as fans) have tended to focus on Football Agents as the likes of Raiola or Mendes but actually in the main agencies are quite large and complex organisations, particularly when football and indeed sport is just one arm of their operation - The final coming together of two of the world's biggest agencies after what appears to be a lengthy assessment period by US authorities, could end up having a real impact on the game, even though it is not the primary business of this new behemoth - Rory Smith in the New York Times on how Hollywood Agents could impact the game - link to an archive copy to avoid paywall issues

The Hollywood Merger That Could Reshape Soccer’s Transfer Market
As two behemoths join forces against boutique agencies in the fight for control and commissions, some fear profits could come before players.

https://archive.ph/5Fnr9

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:32 am

along occasionally convoluted article from the Guardian looking at the potential benefits of American influence and ownership in European Football - can't say I agree with it all- there are a lot of downsides that go with the up which are not really discussed

English football has commercialism of US sports without their egalitarianism
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... itarianism

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:14 am

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prem ... -f2sknw6rx

Fa cup replays set to be scrapped along with revamp (or even complete removal) of the League Cup.

The rest of the article already been discussed on here such as reduction in parachute payments.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:58 am

The crazy world of Football Finance

I always remember Kieran Maguire saying that in accounting you can make the financial reporting look very different depending on how you want to be perceived

Barcelona post profits of £86m and forecast them to be £240m for the current season - from the BBC


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62965661

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:12 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:32 am
along occasionally convoluted article from the Guardian looking at the potential benefits of American influence and ownership in European Football - can't say I agree with it all- there are a lot of downsides that go with the up which are not really discussed

English football has commercialism of US sports without their egalitarianism
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... itarianism
It's an interesting take on the difference between UK and US capitalism albeit long and dull in parts.

The inference is that the US has a more egalitarian type of professional Sport, which is hard to understand not least because I don't know US sports that well.

It seems to me that wage caps and the lack of promotion simply reduce the risk for owners. US professional sports does not seem to have a deep pyramid given the population, which means that clubs like Burnley can play in the PL but their equivalents in the US do not play in the NFL.

If PL consisted of wage caps, no relegation and 14 teams from Manchester, Liverpool, London, Birmingham, Glasgow, Leeds and Tyne and Weir then we would have a much more egalitarian league where owners could make millions without any risk and elite athletes could share in TV and promotional deals but it would be a very different sport.

He is right that the English pyramid is probably unsustainable...! But fixing it to something else entirely is not really a fix at all.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:22 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:12 pm
He is right that the English pyramid is probably unsustainable...! But fixing it to something else entirely is not really a fix at all.
The interesting thing about the English Pyramid (and in the top 4 leagues it is really a ladder on top of a pyramid) is that it now has 5 professional leagues and tier 6 (National League North and South) is starting to move in that direction - National Leaue North has four fully professional teams and a number that are mixture of fully and part time professional according to yesterday's price of football podcast

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:27 pm

More on the American ownership of Football in this country - this time from Jonathan Liew in the Guardian who has something to point out to those who have been wailing and gnashing teeth in the last week - it is too late, they are here and doing these things - and from my perspective we cannot say that we were not warned

Todd Boehly’s arrival marks the end of Premier League’s era of quiet Americans
The reaction to the Chelsea owner’s throwaway ideas shows the English game prefers its foreign benefactors to keep quiet

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... ier-league

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:36 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:14 pm
https://twitter.com/BaitVic/status/1570534216466862081

Wasn't sure which thread to put this on but give this twitter thread a read on Watford and Mogi Bayat (agent to a lot of their players).
Good read, but my biggest take from this is HOW can a fan discover this readily available information, yet the FAs fit and proper person panel can't.
Questions need to be asked, but it appears that someone is frightened to ask the question, for fear of the answer.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:07 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:22 pm
The interesting thing about the English Pyramid (and in the top 4 leagues it is really a ladder on top of a pyramid) is that it now has 5 professional leagues and tier 6 (National League North and South) is starting to move in that direction - National Leaue North has four fully professional teams and a number that are mixture of fully and part time professional according to yesterday's price of football podcast
Indeed but how many of them are rich people's playthings as opposed to viable businesses?

But you right we have well over a 100 professional club and few go bust so there must be sustainable models of sorts in there somewhere.

The problem for the PL is that if it wants to be the biggest league in the world it has to have the most money and be able to buy the biggest players; however, in turn that creates inflation and threatens the pyramid and precludes relatively simply solutions to the egalitarian problem like distributing TV revenue more widely.

At some point the PL has to decide what it values because I see little that suggest Americans have any decent ideas other than end promotion / relegation and introduce wage caps.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:35 pm

Piece in the Athletic on prospective Bournemouth owner Bill Foley - reads like he is a more prototypical American owner that we have expected but as of yet not really seen in this country

From Las Vegas to Bournemouth: Why Bill Foley wants to buy a Premier League club
https://archive.ph/eYqYc

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:35 pm

No doubt many will raise their eyebrows at this and the associated stories of playing Champions League games outside of Europe, the reality is that this appears to be yet more of the long-running political bickering between UEFA and FIFA, with UEFA trying to get other confederations on their side. No doubt there are commercial considerations with the idea but while they are presented as the primary reasons, they are far from being the only ones - from the telegraph

American teams could face Champions League winners in revamped Super Cup
The idea also raises the prospect of the games being taken out of Europe to try to reach a wider global fanbase

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF71TKKgcwY

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:44 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:35 pm
No doubt many will raise their eyebrows at this and the associated stories of playing Champions League games outside of Europe, the reality is that this appears to be yet more of the long-running political bickering between UEFA and FIFA, with UEFA trying to get other confederations on their side. No doubt there are commercial considerations with the idea but while they are presented as the primary reasons, they are far from being the only ones - from the telegraph

American teams could face Champions League winners in revamped Super Cup
The idea also raises the prospect of the games being taken out of Europe to try to reach a wider global fanbase

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF71TKKgcwY
Matt Slater for The Athletic looks at how the Champions League proposals would work

Champions League games abroad, America and how it might work
https://archive.ph/s6xFU

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:33 am

You may have heard about this tale on today's Price of Football Podcast, but it originates with Phillipe Auclair and Josimar Football - there are many interpretations of what is going on with Manchester City's new betting partner - one of which is that the ownership are funding through a shell company

Ghost in the machine
Mystery surrounds 8XBet, Manchester City’s new Asian betting partner. Open-source intelligence points to the UAE.

http://josimarfootball.com/ghost-in-the-machine/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:43 pm

Back to where this thread started 5 years ago - Manchester United release Q4 and full year financial results - they pay an awful lot in wages for winning nothing and failing to qualify for the Champions League

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 22-Results

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:49 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:43 pm
Back to where this thread started 5 years ago - Manchester United release Q4 and full year financial results - they pay an awful lot in wages for winning nothing and failing to qualify for the Champions League

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 22-Results
It is interesting to see how much and how little has changed - revenues are flat 5 years late and net debt has nearly tripled
Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:12 pm
Man Utd showing that they are still in possession of theirs

RECORD TOTAL REVENUE OF £581.2 MILLION
RECORD ADJUSTED EBITDA OF £199.8 MILLION
RECORD OPERATING PROFIT OF £80.8 MILLION

Revenue breaks down as

Commercial £275.5m,
Broadcasting £194.1m,
Matchday £111.6m,

(Net debt £213.1m after cash in the bank accounted for )

We on the other hand should beat their Matchday Revenue (just) with our total Revenue - however we will develop a much greater percentage of profit

crazy figures - but some will be pleased to hear that they don't share the Champs League TV Money pot for the English teams as the qualified by winning the Europa League - Still expect to make £40-50m from the Champs League though

They are also letting a number of their sponsor deals run out on Mobile and Content (which means commercial is lower than expected) as they believe they can generate a big lift on a joint deal in the future.

News that concerns us - They believe that TV income for the Premier League will rise again next time as Facebook and Amazon continue to show some interest

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:49 pm

I meant to post this yesterday as a perfect way to commemorate the 5th anniversary of this thread, multi-club football ownership makes absolute business sense, it is also destroying any notion of what is fair in the game, as Manchester City Football Group look to buy a Brazilian club and Chelsea look to join the multi-club fray The Athletic offers an explainer for the model for those who are new to the discussion or have not been able to keep up with the dozens of posts on the subject in this thread

Explained: Multi-club models in the Premier League, Europe and beyond
https://archive.ph/ucHSY

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:03 am

Preston's owners have released an 'update' / statement after recent discontent amongst supporters.

https://www.pnefc.net/news/2022/septemb ... -hemmings/

Interesting to see their owners currently put in 12m a year just to keep the club going.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:05 am

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:03 am
Preston's owners have released an 'update' / statement after recent discontent amongst supporters.

https://www.pnefc.net/news/2022/septemb ... -hemmings/

Interesting to see their owners currently put in 12m a year just to keep the club going.

And a recurring theme among the empty headed nobbers is for the Hemmings family to sell up and get someone in the club willing to put some money in
These 2 users liked this post: RVclaret GodIsADeeJay81

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:24 am

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:03 am
Preston's owners have released an 'update' / statement after recent discontent amongst supporters.

https://www.pnefc.net/news/2022/septemb ... -hemmings/

Interesting to see their owners currently put in 12m a year just to keep the club going.
That's mental money when you consider how long they've been outside the top flight for

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:37 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:05 am
And a recurring theme among the empty headed nobbers is for the Hemmings family to sell up and get someone in the club willing to put some money in
It is actually financial doping at a level comparable to Eddie Davies at Bolton, more than Jack Walker at Blackburn and less than Venky's at the same place.ly

The problem we repeatedly see in these scenarios is that clubs and fans become so accustomed to these spends that they become a baseline minimum spend in the mindset, which leaves an everlasting impression that more should be spent, the teams that have done this with any reasonable amount of reward (extended Premier League stays) in the Premier League over the last decade are Crystal Palace, Leicester Bournemouth and Brighton (Villa, Leeds and Brentford may join them). That is a fairly sizeable proportion of the 14, so it offers incentive for club's and their owners to pursue the model.

By contrast the only club to achieve such reward by sticking within their means is ours and that followed initial success using the more tried and trusted overspend route. Norwich and Fulham (who appear to be making a better fist of the Premier League at this time) are examples of both models having partial success (the yo-yo reward of regular financial reward). It seems that the real issues are not just financial but in the quality of recruitment at all levels (that is not just about capability but also fit to the situation) and a commitment to the chosen model/strategy over the medium term allowing it to evolve but not losing sight of the reasons why it has been employed. Such steadfast determination and adherence is a real test of character for all involved but is often the difference maker.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:25 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:37 pm
It is actually financial doping at a level comparable to Eddie Davies at Bolton, more than Jack Walker at Blackburn and less than Venky's at the same place.ly

The problem we repeatedly see in these scenarios is that clubs and fans become so accustomed to these spends that they become a baseline minimum spend in the mindset, which leaves an everlasting impression that more should be spent, the teams that have done this with any reasonable amount of reward (extended Premier League stays) in the Premier League over the last decade are Crystal Palace, Leicester Bournemouth and Brighton (Villa, Leeds and Brentford may join them). That is a fairly sizeable proportion of the 14, so it offers incentive for club's and their owners to pursue the model.

By contrast the only club to achieve such reward by sticking within their means is ours and that followed initial success using the more tried and trusted overspend route. Norwich and Fulham (who appear to be making a better fist of the Premier League at this time) are examples of both models having partial success (the yo-yo reward of regular financial reward). It seems that the real issues are not just financial but in the quality of recruitment at all levels (that is not just about capability but also fit to the situation) and a commitment to the chosen model/strategy over the medium term allowing it to evolve but not losing sight of the reasons why it has been employed. Such steadfast determination and adherence is a real test of character for all involved but is often the difference maker.
I agree, the only club to adopt a whole club approach is us. And by that I mean, have an identifiable footballing strategy and start to develop an infrastructure around it. Not sure it is happening at Fulham or Norwich.

I think Norwich is well run but with the whole of Norfolk to aim at and gates of 27,000 top of the Championship/ low end PL is about right for them...! I think Fulham are benefitting from a particular circumstance in time.

For me, it would have continued working but for the shenanigan's of Garlick and Pace.

I suppose there is time for ALKs "footballer as commodity" to work and it does show some signs it might but I can't see it happening in the long run because it never has before. And also because if you are constantly buying players and then selling them it is to hard to pursue a coherent longer term strategy.

Of course, having parachute money helps.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by IanMcL » Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:06 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:58 am
The crazy world of Football Finance

I always remember Kieran Maguire saying that in accounting you can make the financial reporting look very different depending on how you want to be perceived

Barcelona post profits of £86m and forecast them to be £240m for the current season - from the BBC


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62965661
Just by saving Messi's wages!😁

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:31 am

Bizarrely have never registered this UEFA measurement before - Football Net Debt

(Gross Debt + Transfer Fees payable outstanding) - (Cash in hand + transfer fees receivable) to measure borrowings.

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... ywqdgrAAAA

When I have time. it will be interesting to look at our club's position over the last decade or so

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:54 am

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:03 am
Preston's owners have released an 'update' / statement after recent discontent amongst supporters.

https://www.pnefc.net/news/2022/septemb ... -hemmings/

Interesting to see their owners currently put in 12m a year just to keep the club going.
Nobbers, like the **** down the road, live in a fantasy world. They'd both be scuppered if the owners pulled out.

I must have missed it, but how does a shyster like Risdale get elected to anything concerning football :shock:
Should have been banned from the game for life after Leeds.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:50 pm

Absolutely no surprise in this report (remember this is the same government whose Prime Minister told Ed Woodward that he was fine with Super League in the week before it was announced and then immediately went with public opinion and threatening legislation to block it - from the Guardian

Documents reveal Tory minister’s push to smooth Saudi Newcastle takeover
Minister told league he would talk to Saudis at ‘highest level’
Evidence contradicts previous government statements


https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... e-takeover

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:22 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:43 pm
Back to where this thread started 5 years ago - Manchester United release Q4 and full year financial results - they pay an awful lot in wages for winning nothing and failing to qualify for the Champions League

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 22-Results
Last week Manchester United announced the 3rd largest losses in Premier League history (in a non-Covid year as well) without anyone seeming to notice - Juventus could not let their ego be challenged though and decided to go a few steps larger (they really need the ECJ advisory to come out on their side re super league in December

https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/juve ... top-e254m/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:56 pm

this has been a hobby horse of mine for years - not that too many appear concerned about it, certainly appears that way whenever I raised it about our club over the years, it is good to see more clubs are taking notice of it - from the BBC

Premier League & cost of living: How many clubs pay real living wage?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62996172

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:29 pm

Most of us, of a certain age, remember the key changes in football administration down the years:
- end of the shared gate:
- end of equal distribution of TV monies across the 92;
- end of the rule against profiting from football ownership which led to Spurs being listed on the Stock Markets;
- formation of the Premier League;
- end of the European Cup and the formation of the Champions League

finishing with the failed attempt at the creation of a Super League just two years ago (itself a reincarnation of a plan back in 1998 pushed by Silvio Berlusconi. What seems to have bypassed collective memory was an earlier effort to create a Super League in the mid-eighties (all the usual domestic suspects were involved and a few surprising ones too - at some point you would think that their constant tinkering would have seen them barred from the chance to have a say in how the game is managed)

Here the Athletic looks at that first proper effort to create a Super League - link to an archive copy to avoid paywall issues

When English clubs tried to break away 35 years before the Super League

https://archive.ph/WcUrf

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:54 pm

A bit of an update on the current scope of overseas and American investment in the English game -

We know about the new investor in Norwich, but how aware are you in the scale of foreign investment in the Championship

Image
https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... 6751533057

Then consider just how much this is being replicated in 2nd tiers across Europe

Image
https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... 3895697408

and finally, the appetite in the US to invest in European Football is only growing - this year could set another new record

Image
https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... 2895752192

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:17 pm

DAZN take over Eleven Sports as the sports content market becomes more consolidated - for the second-tier rights offerings this could lead to lower pricing/rights values

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/s ... 022-09-26/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:52 pm

I have long argued that the multi-club football ownership model is the greatest threat to the future of the game - now it seems that more of our country's biggest clubs are going to go down this route (probably because they feel they have no other strategic choice).

The predominance of this model will either cement the status, strength and financial power of the Premier League as the de-facto Super League or lead to the creation of a Super League given the trend for the model to focus on one prime team. There will be some smaller, less financially strong groups that will focus on just farming, but that is a model that appears fraught with risk of poaching of coaches and sporting directors.

Of course, FIFA/UEFA could have put a stop to this, but that involves upsetting very rich people and that is not something these organisations tend to want to do

from the Guardian

Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool all hope to become multi-club networks
US-owned trio want to mirror Manchester City’s CFG stable
Todd Boehly already looking at clubs in Europe and beyond

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... b-networks

10% owners of FSG (who own Liverpool), Red Bird Capital already own AC Milan and a controlling interest in Toulouse

Southampton's new owners stated this approach was their intention at the time of their takeover in January, Newcastle United's, Aston Villa's and Leeds United's ownership have suggested it is part of their plans. Manchester United, Spurs and Everton will inevitably have to follow.

Manchester City
Leicester
Wolves
Brentford
Nottingham Forest

The owners of Crystal Palace (10), Brighton (2), Wolves (2) have multiple club interests but have not yet integrated them into a multi-club model.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:10 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:52 pm
I have long argued that the multi-club football ownership model is the greatest threat to the future of the game - now it seems that more of our country's biggest clubs are going to go down this route (probably because they feel they have no other strategic choice).

The predominance of this model will either cement the status, strength and financial power of the Premier League as the de-facto Super League or lead to the creation of a Super League given the trend for the model to focus on one prime team. There will be some smaller, less financially strong groups that will focus on just farming, but that is a model that appears fraught with risk of poaching of coaches and sporting directors.

Of course, FIFA/UEFA could have put a stop to this, but that involves upsetting very rich people and that is not something these organisations tend to want to do

from the Guardian

Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool all hope to become multi-club networks
US-owned trio want to mirror Manchester City’s CFG stable
Todd Boehly already looking at clubs in Europe and beyond

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... b-networks

10% owners of FSG (who own Liverpool), Red Bird Capital already own AC Milan and a controlling interest in Toulouse

Southampton's new owners stated this approach was their intention at the time of their takeover in January, Newcastle United's, Aston Villa's and Leeds United's ownership have suggested it is part of their plans. Manchester United, Spurs and Everton will inevitably have to follow.

Manchester City
Leicester
Wolves
Brentford
Nottingham Forest

The owners of Crystal Palace (10), Brighton (2), Wolves (2) have multiple club interests but have not yet integrated them into a multi-club model.
I should have added that Daniel Křetínský who has a significant shareholding of 27% in West Ham United and an agreed valuation to buy the whole club post March of next year is also the co-owner of Sparta Prague

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:49 pm

Meanwhile in the non-Premier League/non-multi-club sphere, where financial practicalities can be overcome with in perhaps more creative way, we now have UEFA Council Member, BeIN Media, ECA and PSG President Nasser Al Khelaifi suggesting that Barcelona are not playing by the rules - just months after finalising that new Kylian Mbappe deal - he still likes his Superbowl model for the Champions League too

Top European football boss goes to war with FC Barcelona
Paris Saint-Germain chief Nasser al-Khelaifi questions whether the Catalan giant is complying with financial rules.

https://www.politico.eu/article/psg-chi ... odel-uefa/

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