Football's Magic Money Tree

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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:36 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:44 pm
no surprise that this story first broke elsewhere - namely Martin Zeigler at The Time - here's his article, the meeting is a hugely significant step into the unknown for all.

English football chiefs to hold summit over biggest shake-up in 30 years
Six leading figures will meet to discuss proposals that include elite clubs skipping the Carabao Cup and playing the Community Shield abroad

https://archive.is/ofISz
Absolutely no surprise in this headline from the Independent today after yesterdays talks between football's powerbrokers

EFL ‘not hopeful’ of achieving financial settlement with Premier League
https://archive.is/RMnvB

RVclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:38 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:36 pm
Absolutely no surprise in this headline from the Independent today after yesterdays talks between football's powerbrokers

EFL ‘not hopeful’ of achieving financial settlement with Premier League
https://archive.is/RMnvB
No scrapping of parachute payments after all then…

Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:48 pm

Martyn Zeigler in the Times reminds us that the Premier Leagues investigation into Manchester City (courtesy of 'Football Leaks') is now into it's 5th year without much in the way of a public statement throughout it's course. Fortunately, unlike UEFA, there is no time limit on such investigations, however many lawyers City employ to delay proceedings

Protracted Manchester City investigation is ‘damaging English game’
https://archive.is/O9J9W

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:50 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:38 pm
No scrapping of parachute payments after all then…
always unlikely - parachute payments make the Premier League more competitive and that jeopardy helps draw the tv audiences, I have been arguing that point for years.
This user liked this post: RVclaret

Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:53 pm

Here is another story that has been rumbling on for quite some time and I am quite convinced this is not the last word on it - again from Martyn Zeigler in the Times - he has had a busy week

Football agents’ fees to be capped and earnings made public, announces Fifa
Fifa is concerned at the amount of money leaving the game and going into agents’ pockets

https://archive.is/yq6rx

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:48 pm

Ha that's going to be interesting, watching those agents squeal

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:53 pm
Here is another story that has been rumbling on for quite some time and I am quite convinced this is not the last word on it - again from Martyn Zeigler in the Times - he has had a busy week

Football agents’ fees to be capped and earnings made public, announces Fifa
Fifa is concerned at the amount of money leaving the game and going into agents’ pockets

https://archive.is/yq6rx
It's about time.........Parasites!

Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:28 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:50 pm
always unlikely - parachute payments make the Premier League more competitive and that jeopardy helps draw the tv audiences, I have been arguing that point for years.
On the subject of fairer distributions Kieran Maguire posted this this morning following a 'Price of Football' query about replacing merit payments for league position with merit payments for points earned - it has a really intriguing outcome which indicates that overall it is a fairer method - obviously means it will not be implemented then :roll:

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 7308646400

here is the merit split in the Premier League last season

Image

and this is what it would have looked like if it had been done on a points basis according to Maguire

Image

this represents the overall loss and gain for each club - naturally those who lose the most get the benefit of UEFA monies from qualifying for their competitions, which most neutrals would consider a reasonable trade off

Image

RVclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:38 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:28 pm
On the subject of fairer distributions Kieran Maguire posted this this morning following a 'Price of Football' query about replacing merit payments for league position with merit payments for points earned - it has a really intriguing outcome which indicates that overall it is a fairer method - obviously means it will not be implemented then :roll:

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 7308646400

here is the merit split in the Premier League last season

Image

and this is what it would have looked like if it had been done on a points basis according to Maguire

Image

this represents the overall loss and gain for each club - naturally those who lose the most get the benefit of UEFA monies from qualifying for their competitions, which most neutrals would consider a reasonable trade off

Image
That’s quite interesting. Won’t happen as too many of the bigger names find themselves in the ‘loss’ category.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:39 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:19 pm
This is an archived version of the same article - so we can read and refer to it going forward

Dose of strong leadership needed to cure game’s ills
The organisations that run football need to be stronger to deal with errant owners and the many issues affecting fans

https://archive.is/uXQaY
This is getting a lot of support on twitter from serious football journalists - could be interesting

https://twitter.com/marksaggers/status/ ... 1818935296

Cirrus_Minor
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:46 pm

It does seem a lot fairer and doesn't have a cat in hells chance of being used.

I wonder why, on the present graphic, Brighton and Wolves payments seem to switched.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:51 pm

Cirrus_Minor wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:46 pm
It does seem a lot fairer and doesn't have a cat in hells chance of being used.

I wonder why, on the present graphic, Brighton and Wolves payments seem to switched.
probably an error from the Brighton supporting Maguire - he makes a lot if you follow/listen to him

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:07 pm

Fairer distribution, however, we must remember that the Prem is not at all about fairness.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:35 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:07 pm
Fairer distribution, however, we must remember that the Prem is not at all about fairness.
This is true

It would be be better if we could see the model applied over a greater number of seasons so we could understand how it worked in the years when the big six generally won a greater number of points against the 14. I say this because everyone works to the rules they are measured by and if income was measured by points totals rather than position, the bigger clubs may once again find ways to be totally dominant over the 14.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:02 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:39 pm
This is getting a lot of support on twitter from serious football journalists - could be interesting

https://twitter.com/marksaggers/status/ ... 1818935296
this week the Price of Football issued a separate podcast looking at the West Brom situation - there are some interesting parallels - a model club in the Premier League , club money loaned to owners to buy shares etc - the sale of the club saw it valued at £227m in 2016. The key difference at the moment is the happiness of the fans (ignoring the size of the monies borrowed)

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/i ... 0592787751

RVclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:02 pm
this week the Price of Football issued a separate podcast looking at the West Brom situation - there are some interesting parallels - a model club in the Premier League , club money loaned to owners to buy shares etc - the sale of the club saw it valued at £227m in 2016. The key difference at the moment is the happiness of the fans (ignoring the size of the monies borrowed)

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/i ... 0592787751
I would also say a key difference is the actually running of the club. Our owners have been heavily involved in hiring Kompany, rebranding the club and I’m modernising with the use of data & analysis in recruitment. Of course, all of this contributes to ‘happiness of fans’. On the other hand, West Brom’s owners made 2 bad managerial appointments in a row including Steve Bruce, and as such, appear to be on the verge of wasting their ‘parachute payment advantage’. I also don’t believe Lai appears at any games unlike the passionate Pace who is there home and away supporting the team. There’s a big disconnect with Lai and the fans and always has been.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:10 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:39 pm
This is getting a lot of support on twitter from serious football journalists - could be interesting

https://twitter.com/marksaggers/status/ ... 1818935296
https://twitter.com/rjdowning/status/16 ... 4KHJQ&s=19

This comment on there is odd.
Do they think anyone will stop their owner doing as they please if it gains more attention in the media?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:48 pm

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... aniel-levy

Qatari owners of PSG are looking at investing in a PL club.

I take it our fans would boycott games if it was us (it won’t be).

Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:24 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:48 pm
https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... aniel-levy

Qatari owners of PSG are looking at investing in a PL club.

I take it our fans would boycott games if it was us (it won’t be).
There have been longstanding rumours that QSI wanted to buy into Leeds United that were particularly rife in 2020 (just search this thread about them), Middle East and Leeds rumours resurfaced last week

EXCLUSIVE: San Francisco 49ers' takeover of Leeds United could face opposition from a Middle Eastern buyer... despite an agreement being in place for the NFL franchise to take full control following January 2024
- The San Francisco 49ers' could face opposition in the takeover of Leeds United
- An agreement is in place for the NFL franchise to take full control in 2024
- The deal is thought to rely on Leeds remaining in the Premier League
- An unnamed party has shown a shock interest in stealing a march on the 49ers

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... buyer.html

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:52 pm

I am currently do some research into the history of FA rule 34 for a piece I am working on for the London Clarets and came across this article from 7 years ago at Law in Sport - it is interesting to see how much plays into current fears and ambitions of fans (particularly in light of the fan led review). I am particularly taken by the statements that football is different to normal business (I point I have been challenged about on the takeover thread a number of times in recent months) so I thought I would share

https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/item/ ... ball-clubs

Should Fans Play A Greater Role In The Ownership Of English & Welsh Football Clubs?
02 June 2015 By Kevin Jaquiss
This article looks at the current governance structures of English and Welsh football clubs, and asks whether greater levels of fan ownership and participation could improve their stability, vitality and overall performance.

How Governance And Ownership Structures Have Evolved
Much has been written1 about the “fit and proper person test”, now technically the “Owners’ and Directors’ Tests”,2 which apply through The FA to all clubs in the Football Conference, Isthmian League, Northern Premier League and Southern Football League and through The Football League and Premier League.

While not identical, the tests in broad terms prevent people who have been involved in corporates insolvencies, have been convicted of serious criminal offences or have committed serious breaches of The FA or League rules from being involved in the ownership or management of football clubs.3

The problem with the tests is that they encourage us to think that good governance in football depends upon the ethics of the individual who controls the club. The stories about people who have fallen foul of the test, and those who should have done but didn’t, are fine for frightening the children or amusing the fans of rival clubs, but they are not the whole story about football governance.

From Community Organisations To De Facto PLCs
In England and Wales, football clubs mostly started as community organisations, along the lines of local sports clubs today, operating as unincorporated associations or community benefit societies4 with people who played for the teams as members.

When professional football began to emerge in 1899, The FA, as the federal body of the clubs, took steps to protect the clubs’ heritage of benefiting their members and communities. What became Rule 34 of the FA’s Rules allowed clubs to be limited companies but prohibited payments to directors and restricted dividends and payments to owners on winding up. This last part of the rule survives in the present FA Rules, which provide that any surplus on a winding up has to go to a benevolent or charitable organisation.5 The rest, preventing payments to directors and dividends, has disappeared; the result being that there are now no limits imposed by the football authorities on what a trading football club can or cannot pay to its directors in salaries and bonuses, and to its owners in dividends.

The change from community organisation to limited company was a dramatic one, although its consequences played out slowly. The next major step came in 1983, when The FA permitted Tottenham Hotspur to make the club (a private limited company) the subsidiary of a public limited company (PLC), which would be floated to raise capital on the public markets in return for a share in the profits generated by the club. Other clubs such as Aston Villa, Manchester United and Newcastle United followed suit, and the holding company model is now commonplace, whether or not the shares are publicly traded, as it permits owners to take profits out of trading football clubs.

Why the changes occurred and what it meant for fans
The transition of clubs to a structure permitting them to return profits to their owners happened at a time when football desperately needed investment,6 although it is hard to argue with the proposition that the holding company structure was a crude device to get round the effect of Rule 34, which the FA could have prevented.7 The result of the newly permitted structure was that football clubs took a further step towards becoming purely business assets like any other and tended to be managed as businesses – the corporate model is predicated on the over-riding commercial interests of owner shareholders and it is to them that the directors owe duties.

It follows from this that fans came to be regarded as consumers to whom the commercial owners of the club sell tickets, match day entertainment, replica kits and media packages. This is something that The FA thought it important to prevent until 1983,8 and in the view of this author it is undeniable that something in football has been lost as a result of the transition. Part of this is nostalgia for the days when clubs were the centres of working communities, but there are harder edged questions to be asked in a world in which football globally is more successfully financially than ever before. Why, against this background, are there so many insolvencies and so many crises at individual clubs? Why has it been necessary to expand the Owners and Directors Tests over recent years? Why is football at grass roots level under threat in so many places?9 The next section looks at whether giving fans a greater role in ownership is a potential means of addressing some of these issues.

Should Fans Play A Greater Role In Ownership And Governance?
There are examples of clubs run for profit that see good relations with their fans and their community as a key objective and deliver on it successfully.10 In this author’s view, if this approach was more universal and deep rooted, the quality of governance in football would be improved.

The reality: football is different to normal businesses
Football clubs are unlike normal businesses because fans are largely stuck with their team, however dire the performances on the pitch. To this degree, fans are not consumers in the normal sense of the word.

In the author’s experience, fans’ loyalty is firmly connected to ideas of ownership and shared identity. They keep going to games or looking out for the scores because it is “their team”. Listen to almost any football phone in about a club facing disaster and you will likely hear fans making the point that they will still be there, whoever owns the club. The relationship is a deeper relationship than that generated by financial ownership. This perhaps informs the sometimes fraught relationship between clubs and fan groups about ticket prices and the constant hum of resentment about the proliferation of replica kits and new versions of replica kits. And it shows itself in times of crisis in calls to remove the owners of the club.

In the author’s opinion, a model of club ownership that is more in tune with this underlying perspective of the fans would tend to be more successful and sustainable than one that runs counter to it.

In Germany, under licensing arrangements operated by the Deutsche Fussball Liga, football clubs have to be 51% owned by their fans and investment is secured through the sale of commercial rights. The German system reflects an understanding that it is healthy for fans to own clubs as it exploits the powerful symbiotic relationship between fan and club. Fans want the club to survive and prosper; giving them a role in a more representative governance structure helps to avoid the damaging scenarios which can be precipitated by the ambitions and limitations of individual owners. It also cements their engagement with the club, which in itself increases commercial stability.

The Legalities Of Fan Ownership In England & Wales
Moves towards fan ownership are also occurring in England and Wales. One indicator of this in the recent history of FC United of Manchester11 (details below), which has placed fan ownership at the centre of its governance strategy and has seen attendances grow to the point at which the average gate is 2,000 in the Evostik Northern Premier League; only one other team in that league has an average gate over 500.12

The club proves that ownership does matter and that fan ownership is a powerful thing. We will return to FC United below as an example of a structure that allows fans to take complete (or partial) control of a club; but first the author would like to touch on two other ways in which current corporate models could better facilitate the concept of fan “ownership”.

Awareness of what it is fans regard as important
The analysis that fans feel themselves to be owners is not always related to direct and outright commercial ownership. In this author’s view, fans (or most fans) do not want to own their club as a commercial asset or run it as a business. What they feel they own, and what they feel no one should interfere with, is the history and heritage of the club – the club colours, the stadium, the name.13

There are, therefore, things that clubs could do to recognise the importance of fan “ownership” in this sense without parting with a single share. At its simplest level, this involves active engagement with the fan base, which carries with it tangible benefits for the club. For example, providing information to fans about the club’s progress as a business makes decisions easier to justify and manages expectations. Engagement with fans also makes the club’s community work and its involvement in grass roots football more accountable and potentially more productive.

The right to voice on important issues
A more radical approach involves clubs giving fans a voice, or even a veto, on changes that impact on the club’s heritage. Mechanisms for this, such as staged levels of influence for supporter groups depending on their membership and governance, were suggested in evidence to the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee Inquiry into Football Governance.14 This could be done on a voluntary basis through a public commitment made by the club’s owners, but a more enduring and meaningful legal solution would be a “golden share” held by an appropriately constituted and credible supporters group meeting specified legitimacy criteria. The share would not carry any significant financial or commercial rights but would give the supporters group (so long as it continued to meet the legitimacy criteria) a meaningful voice – up to and including a veto - on key pre-defined issues.

The Select Committee’s report recognised the importance of fan engagement and made a number of specific recommendations about ways in which supporter ownership might be facilitated and encouraged. Progress on those recommendations was reviewed by the All Party Parliamentary Group for Mutualslast year and they concluded that not enough had been done and, in particular that “Football authorities should adopt a policy of promoting supporter involvement and ownership in football clubs as a strategy for building trust and confidence for the long term”.15 This could be done through changes to League rules or through a licensing system. The report betrays a degree of impatience with The FA and other football authorities for their resistance to this agenda and calls for a stronger line to be taken by Parliamentarians with the threat of legislation if nothing is done.

All of this will take time and is subject to the vagaries of the political process. Not everyone is waiting for a solution to be presented to them. The next section gives examples of fans working together to develop their own solutions.

Outright fan ownership: the community benefit structure
FC United of Manchester are about to move into their new stadium, over £2M of the cost of which was met by fans who bought shares in the club.

The club is a community benefit society (registered under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 201416) and operates on a one member one vote basis with an elected board which oversees the work of paid and unpaid staff. Community benefit societies, like co-operatives, are owned by their members but the shares do not represent a share in the underlying assets; as a condition of registration with the Financial Conduct Authority (which acts as registering authority under the legislation) the assets of a community benefit society have to be used to benefit an identified community, in the case of FC United the community served by the club. FC United has also chosen to adopt the “asset lock” permitted by the legislation,17 which means that the restriction on the use of its assets cannot be removed by resolution or by changes to the legal form of the club.

Individual fans spent between £200 and £20,000 in response to a share offer by FC United, which had features unique to the community benefit society model:

As previously mentioned, the shares did not give shareholders a share in the underlying assets of the club;
Their entitlement was to interest only; the rate of interest was limited and the club gave no guarantee that interest would ever be paid;
- The club maintained its statutory commitment to community benefit; interest could only be paid to the extent that this could be done without preventing the club delivering on its commitment;
- Whatever number of shares someone bought, they still had just one vote as a member of FC United.
- The share offer document studiously avoided use of the word “investment” and for good reason. The terms on offer did not represent a sound financial investment. But people were not looking for a return or even for influence based on what they put in. They believed in what the club was doing, they were prepared to give it the use of their money and, above all, they wanted to be part of it – to have a stake, to be, collectively and equally with other supporters, owners.

On the other hand, people who paid tax were able to take advantage of the Enterprise Investment Scheme (EIS), designed by the Government to support new enterprises and now joined by Seed Enterprise Investment Scheme (SEIS). These both provide significant (up to 50% of the value of the investment) tax relief. They were not designed with community benefit societies in mind but HMRC and the Government have readily accepted that developing supporter ownership is a worthwhile application for them.

The model makes supporter ownership a powerful force, crucially linked to the idea that the club should have a positive role to play in its community. The attendance figures set out earlier reflect the strong sense the members of FC United have that it is, in every sense of the word, their club.

The unique form of ownership, which is not an ownership of a financial asset and in which all members share equally on a one member one vote basis, reflects the feelings fans have and share about the club they support. Fans in FC United have readily, and, as a collective, rejected the idea of taking money from a rich owner to win promotion (though this author suspects that the club’s supporters would not want this article to omit recording that FC United were 2014/15 Champions of the Northern Premier League and will play next season in the Conference North). Their wish to own their club and their wish to ensure that their club survives come together to support a prudent and sustainable approach to financial management. They act together as representatives of the community served by the club and hold the board and staff to account for the commitment to deliver benefit to the community.

It will rightly be said that all this is very well in the Evostik Northern Premier League with a group of highly motivated Mancunians who set off on a mission to show that there is an alternative to big money football. It would not be possible in normal circumstances to use the community benefit society model to take over a Premier League or Championship club; the sums of money involved, represented by assets or by debt, tend to be larger than can be raised from fans in the time available when the chance to acquire a club arises.

Partial fan ownership: buying shares in the existing club
There are, however, examples of fans taking minority share stakes at clubs such as Portsmouth when the boom and bust culture which can affect clubs at this level opens up opportunities; in this case the appointment of an administrator.18

The issue that often has to be addressed is how the rights and interests of high net worth individuals who step in with significant funding to support a takeover are balanced with those of the wider fan base. Weighted voting and shareholder agreements provide straightforward mechanisms for this and mean that forms of fan ownership could flourish at all levels of the football pyramid. At Portsmouth, the supporters trust (a community benefit society like FC United) has raised money from fans to buy shares in the club and has the right to buy further shares over time. A shareholders agreement provides for increased influence for the trust as it acquires more shares.19 Depending on the people involved as main funders and the extent and purpose of their individual investments, there is a range of options to give influence for fans within this overall structure, including the “golden share” model mentioned above. As a matter of basic principle, anyone taking over a football club would be well advised to take account of the different ways of looking at ownership and engagement with supporters set out in the previous section.

Thanks to clubs like FC United, the ideas of structuring a football club around fan (rather than shareholder) ownership are no longer regarded as fanciful. Figures published20 by Supporters Direct21 suggest that there are 30 community owned clubs in England and Wales and a further 46 clubs in which fans have a shareholding. The clock is not going to be turned back and not all clubs are going to be owned by fans, but there are things to be gained for all clubs from thinking about fans as owners.

Pros And Cons Of Fan Ownership
Do fans possess the relevant skills?
A lot of the debate about fan ownership in recent years has been conducted at a simplistic level. It has been suggested that football fans are too inexperienced or addled by alcohol to be able to understand what is involved.

In the author’s opinion, however, the financial history of football clubs in recent years does little to suggest that board standards are high.

Furthermore, in the author’s experience, fans groups looking at a takeover often have wider skills and experience than the board of the club they support. It will be important, however, to ensure that the governance structure of a supporter owned club involves the appointment of a board selected for skills and experience, rather than the election of a board composed solely of fan representatives.

Are fans only motivated by on-pitch success?
A more subtle argument is that fans are motivated only by on-pitch success and will use their rights as owners to force the club board into speculations on expensive new players or a sale to the next entrepreneur claiming to have the resources and commitment to take the club up through the leagues.

The decision by the supporters trust at Notts County to sell its 60% stake in the club to a Middle Eastern consortium was an example of how this can happen and how badly things can go wrong. Munto Finance set out ambitious plans, appointed Sven-Goran Eriksson as a League Two manager, signed some big player contracts then sold out for a nominal sum after 5 months, leaving the club with £7M of debt.22 This doesn’t make fan ownership worse than any other ownership but it demonstrates the importance of the underlying principles set out in this article. Fan ownership only really makes sense if it is an alternative to “boom and bust” ownership, based on fans’ commitment to the survival of the club and its place in the community; survival is ultimately more important than success. The various mechanisms identified in this article, including the “golden share” approach to protecting the heritage and shared identity of the club, represent potential ways of harnessing the commitment of fans in a way that, in the view of this author, would be healthy for clubs and for football as a whole.

Problems around practical implementation
Perhaps the biggest issues with fan ownership are practical ones. Often, fan ownership only comes onto the agenda at a club in the face of impending or actual financial disaster, as at Portsmouth. This is understandable but it can be extremely difficult to make fan ownership a reality within a timescale set by insolvency procedures.

There will continue to be opportunities as clubs lurch from one crisis to another and fans start new clubs at grass roots but what is really required is a new appreciation of fan ownership as a means of delivering stability and responsible governance in football.

Looking Forwards: What Might Happen?
The report of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Mutuals (see above) criticised the “neutrality” of the football authorities on issues of ownership.23 The Group accepted the argument that fan ownership is inherently healthy from a governance point of view and should be encouraged.

If the football authorities responded favourably to this encouragement, constructive engagement with supporter groups would be a requirement for league clubs, perhaps underpinned by a new licensing regime. Clubs would support the development of credible, legitimate and properly governed supporters groups that would be granted higher levels of involvement and influence the wider their member base became. Change would be gradual rather than crisis driven.

If the authorities do not respond constructively, the same result might be achieved through a football regulator put in place by Parliament – that seems the most likely form of legislation if the threat issued by the All Party Parliamentary Group for Mutuals is ultimately carried out.24

If clubs become more open to supporter involvement, supporters and supporter groups will need to respond in a constructive way; fan groups will have to be prepared in some cases to tone down their rhetoric about the directors and owners of the clubs they support if they want to be part of a new governance structure.

There needs to be models for properly governed supporters groups and those groups need support in their development. Supporters Direct, which was set up with Government support in 2000 to be a catalyst for the development of responsible supporter involvement in the running of football clubs, has been astonishingly successful in promoting the supporters trust model (there are 147 in England and Wales25) but, in the absence of encouragement or active engagement from the football leagues, there is some way to go on the long term aim of changing the governance of football. Part of this is a funding issue (Supporters Direct is ultimately funded by the Premier League and has not enjoyed stability in its funding regime) but the wider relationship with football leagues and football clubs is crucial.

The sense of ownership that fans have in their club is something we should treasure; properly understood, it is a means of achieving sustainability and effective governance in football. The good examples of full supporter ownership such as AFC Wimbledon, Exeter and FC United show the business potential; these are well-run and successful clubs that enjoy not just loyalty and financial support from their supporters but also practical commitment from those who volunteer their skills, experience and hard work.

The governance potential exists for all clubs. Barcelona President Josep Maria Bartomeu was recently quoted in The Independent talking about the way the club’s 144,000 fan owners vote in elections.26 He said “They vote with the heart of a fan and the head of an owner… If you are just a fan you only use your heart; if you’re just an owner you only use your head.” Engaging fans’ heads as well as their hearts is a sound strategy for the long term. Clubs that are rooted in their communities and open with their communities about their finances and activities are much less likely to fail than clubs that operate behind closed doors. The means of achieving this are there – we just need the courage and the imagination to use them.

References
1 - See for example Richard Barham, ‘Is football’s owners and directors test fit for purpose’ LawInSport.com, 21 January 2015, last viewed 2 June 2015, https://www.lawinsport.com/articles/ite ... or-purpose
2 - Owners’ and Directors’ Test, https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... ctors-test (last accessed 2 June 2015)
3 - When questions arise about whether the owner of a club is a fit and proper person, there is usually significant media interest. Birmingham and Leeds fans have experienced this recently, Manchester City fans not too long ago. In the lower parts of the football pyramid the list is endless - Salisbury City, Hereford United, Rushden and Diamonds, Weymouth, Kettering, Truro City, Hinckley United, Northwich Victoria. These situations all produce coverage in the local press, and even the national press if the details are salacious or the club is big enough. We know that a bad owner can damage or destroy a club, and in the view of this author the people who feel the loss hardest are often the fans.
4 - See later in this article for a summary of the community benefit society legal structure
5 - FA Handbook: Rules of the Association, Section I 2(c) now reads: “If the surplus assets shall be more than sufficient to pay to the Members the whole amount paid upon their shares, the balance shall be given by the Members of the Club, at or before the time of dissolution as they shall direct, to The Football Association Benevolent Fund, or to some Club or Institute in the [here insert the name of the appropriate city or county] having objects similar to those set out in the Memorandum of Association or to any local charity, or charitable or benevolent institution situate within the said [here insert the name of the appropriate city or county]”, https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... ssociation (last accessed 2 June 2015)
6 - The 1980s saw the Bradford and Hillsborough disasters and the Taylor Report (https://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk ... 60001.html) detailing the improvements needed to football grounds
7 - No debate about this happened at the time and no detailed reason has ever been given. See David Conn’s, ‘Follow the Money’, lrb.co.uk, 30 August 2012, last viewed 2 June 2015, https://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n16/david-con ... -the-money
8 - See reference to Rule 34 above
9 - Owen Gibson, ‘The FA has realized that it can no longer neglect grass roots football’, theguardian.com, 10 October 2014, last viewed 2 June 2015 https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... s-football
10 - Supporters Direct, The Social and Community Value of Football, Summary Report 2010, https://www.supporters-direct.org/wp-co ... report.pdf ; see also David Conn, ‘How can football clubs capture the social value of the game’, theguardian.co.uk, 18 August 2010, last viewed 2 June 2015, https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... rter-owned
11 - FC United of Manchester hompage, https://www.fc-utd.co.uk/
12 - Evostik Premier League figures, https://www.evostikleague.co.uk/attendance-tables.php
13 - See for example the recent controversies at Hull City and Cardiff City about club name and colours; Lydia Banerjee, ‘The vanishing Tiger – What’s in a name?’, LawInSport.com, 21 March 2014, last viewed 2 June 2015, https://www.lawinsport.com/blog/littlet ... lnZXJzIl0=
14 - Football governance inquiry timeline, evidence and report here: https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... -timeline/ (last accessed 2 June 2015)
15 - The All-Party Parliamentary Group for Mutuals, ‘What is the vision for the future of supporter-owned football clubs?’, Report of Special Hearing Published February 2014 https://www.mutuo.co.uk/wp-content/uplo ... Report.pdf
16 - Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/14/contents
17 - Ibid, see Section 29, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/14/section/29
18- ‘Act now to buy community shares’, Portsmouthfc.co.uk, 6 July 2014, last viewed 2 june 2015, https://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/news/art ... 19372.aspx
19 - Example copy of shareholders agreement for Portsmouth Community Football Cub Limited https://www.pompeytrust.com/shares, available through Pompey Support Trust website, https://www.pompeytrust.com/
20 - Supporters Direct website, https://www.supporters-direct.org/homep ... ts-figures
21 - Supporters Direct is the federal body for supporters trusts and promotes and supports them as a means of fans gaining influence in the running and ownership of their clubs - https://www.supporters-direct.org
22 - “Panorama has the last word on Notts County and Munto Finance” 19 April 2011, last viewed 2 June 2015, https://twohundredpercent.net/?p=12000
23 - Ibid at 15
24 - The concluding recommendation in the Group’s report was this: “As it has already warned, the Government should consider legislating for the changes it wishes to see in the ownership and Governance of the Football industry. 25 - A draft Bill should be prepared urgently to take forward the measures promised by the DCMS in 2013. Each of the parties should also prepare detailed plans for their election manifestos, aimed at addressing the inherent weaknesses in this dysfunctional system once and for all.” (In fact, only the Labour Party included specific proposals in this area in its manifesto.)
26 - Supporter Direct, Facts and Figures, https://www.supporters-direct.org/homep ... ts-figures
27 - Pete Jenson, ‘Barcelona president Josep Maria Bartomeu: 'We are still more than just a club' ‘, independent.co.uk, 17 March 2015, last viewed 2 June 2015, https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 14866.html
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:29 pm

more interesting asides and articles from my research into the history of the FA's rule 34

I find a lot of sense in this quote from Sam Wallace when he was at the Independent in 2015 - in my experience it is a view that the majority of members of this

"Everywhere I travel to report, fans talk about the way in which so many of our clubs – in many cities the last vestiges of our industrial past – have been taken from the communities they serve and subject to varying degrees of maladministration, debt-loading and general pisspoor management. The fans pick up the bill. They always do – and for no stake in the club."

If I were Prime Minister: None of our football clubs would be dominated by greedy directors
Our series in the run-up to the General Election – 100 days, 100 contributors, but no politicians – continues with The Independent's Chief Football Correspondent

https://archive.is/bwQH0

Then there is this - The FA never responded to Irving Scholar's request to breach rule 34 by placing Spurs into a Holding Company

Why governance matters, and why it should matter to you
https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/ ... ter-to-you

The contrast in the way The FA approach governance in the 1890's and in the modern day is huge

see section 1.2 here

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... or_Purpose

and this from David Conn for the Guardian in 2007

What money can't buy
In the rest of Europe, they know the value of a club's soul - which is why no billionaire could prise Barcelona from their fans. David Conn explains how legislation and custom protect the Continent's great teams - and the game itself

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/ ... newsstory1
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:40 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:29 pm
more interesting asides and articles from my research into the history of the FA's rule 34

I find a lot of sense in this quote from Sam Wallace when he was at the Independent in 2015 - in my experience it is a view that the majority of members of this board do not adhere to or at least do not care about

"Everywhere I travel to report, fans talk about the way in which so many of our clubs – in many cities the last vestiges of our industrial past – have been taken from the communities they serve and subject to varying degrees of maladministration, debt-loading and general pisspoor management. The fans pick up the bill. They always do – and for no stake in the club."
for some reason I missed the bit in large print on the previous post

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:54 pm

This is a bit more esoteric in the sense of specialised interest but a useful historic reference

A review copy of
Entry into Exit: Insolvency in English Professional Football by Stefan Szymanski

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstrea ... sequence=2

which I went in search of after reading this, which provides an illuminating perspective on how the practise has evolved into the current drive to the American desire for profit as opposed to sporting success

Stefan Szymanski on the business of football
Updated Tuesday, 11th May 2021

https://www.open.edu/openlearn/money-ma ... s-football

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:26 pm

More on the contrast in approach between The FA in the Victorian era and the modern era - there is an obvious political slant here given the nature of the organisation producing this paper but still offers good information

Imagine for instance if the FA had held onto the spirit of these rules :shock:
"In 1899, the FA implemented Rule 34 as a means to safeguard this relationship. The rule stipulated that no member of a football club could draw a salary as a director, that any dividends paid to owners could represent no more than 5% of the face value of shares held; and that any money made from selling the club would have to be redistributed back into the local community."

Democratising Football
https://www.common-wealth.co.uk/reports ... g-football

I appreciate that this is likely to all be a bit too heavy reading for most :geek:

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:02 pm

Hi CP, I've read all the way through this "law in sport" article. It's full of fanciful nonsense. Sure, yes, we could have a football pyramid of clubs run by their fans. All the players would be unpaid amateurs. All the leagues would be local/regional - because none could afford the regular travel costs beyond 2/3 hours trip on the team coach at weekends. FC United's crowd of 2,000 would be the top end, most would be doing well to achieve a tenth of that number. But, there's no harm in any of that for community interest/community benefit/community asset clubs.

However, the minute a football player suggests that they want to be paid the average wage - let's call that £600 per week - to kick a ball around a field, then we are in the world of different ownership models. No problem with the fans buying shares and taking a serious interest in the financial standing of their club along with their club's success (or lack of...) on the field. No problem with share owning fans saying "no" to being paid dividends and allowing the return on their shares to be re-invested in the club's success. But, the wheels of growth have started rolling. Professional footballers have arrived. I think we are now around 60 years from the abolition of the maximum wage as well as 30 years from the formation of the Premier League. We can all now watch football on our tvs (and our smart phones when we are travelling), none of this would exist if all that was allowed to exist was fan governed football clubs.

Football has always been about winners and losers, very few of us are satisfied by every game ending in a draw. Winners and losers brings with it ambitions to be the winner, to usurp last year's champions. Everything else that goes on is a direct consequence or competition. Nothing can prevent the failure of some is we want the success of others. No one wants the same 20 clubs to finish every season in exactly the same position as they finished the season before. How bored would we become as Burnley fans if our team was stuck in 21st place in the pyramid where we are today, condemned to always finish top of the championship, but never promoted to the Premier League. We couldn't have sung "You''re going down. We're going up" to the Bournemouth fans on Saturday if this had been the case.

Whether a club's wage bill is £25 million or £90 million or several hundred million, football requires the sanity that financial mistakes will bring a club down just as surely as picking the wrong team, wasting money on the wrong transfer or a star player suffering a season ending injury will result in losing rather than winning and ultimately failure, administration and a football club closing down.

Financial reality is just as important to football clubs as the laws of gravity. Fan governance of professional football clubs can not defy financial shortcomings any more than it can defy gravity.

UTC

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:08 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:26 pm
More on the contrast in approach between The FA in the Victorian era and the modern era - there is an obvious political slant here given the nature of the organisation producing this paper but still offers good information

Imagine for instance if the FA had held onto the spirit of these rules :shock:
"In 1899, the FA implemented Rule 34 as a means to safeguard this relationship. The rule stipulated that no member of a football club could draw a salary as a director, that any dividends paid to owners could represent no more than 5% of the face value of shares held; and that any money made from selling the club would have to be redistributed back into the local community."

Democratising Football
https://www.common-wealth.co.uk/reports ... g-football

I appreciate that this is likely to all be a bit too heavy reading for most :geek:
Maybe I should have saved my "fanciful nonsense" statement for this "democractising football" report. I only read the first couple of paragraphs. Are they going to propose that we start sending children up chimneys again, as happened in Victorian times?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:31 pm

It is always good to hear the voice of a vastly opposing perspective I have spent vast amounts of time articulating a different position to what is contained in those two pieces Paul, mostly with this thread. Unlike you I believe their perspective is as relevant as mine and you see a lot of it in the initiatives that drove the the Fan Led review and the thoughts of what appears to be the majority of submissions to it.

The only way the game and society can resolve such issues is by accepting opposing views and moving forward with them - it is not a contest - acceptable middle ground has to be found, and for the most part that is what was enshrined in the spirit of Rule 34 before it was fragmented in 1983.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:46 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:48 pm
https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... aniel-levy

Qatari owners of PSG are looking at investing in a PL club.

I take it our fans would boycott games if it was us (it won’t be).
This is intriguing, though it is just speculation - would Spurs or PSG going to be the focal point of such a group, Nasser Al Khelaifi is a man with many hats - President of the ECA, EXCO member at UEFA - close ties with FIFA,

from the Telegraph

Qatar in talks with Daniel Levy as they plot post-World Cup investment
Nasser Al-Khelaifi met with Daniel Levy as Qatar set its sights on acquisitions across European sport

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... estment%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:45 pm

It is that time of year for reports and analysis in Football - first up is Football Benchmark with their 'European Champions Report' - QSI/PSG are going to be in the news quite a bit after this I feel

the introduction and statement
https://www.footballbenchmark.com/libra ... eport_2023

the full report
https://www.footballbenchmark.com/docum ... 202023.pdf

and like I said PSG are going to generate a lot of news

REVEALED: The eye-watering numbers behind PSG's massive £326MILLION losses in 2022... as big-money contracts for Lionel Messi and Co create football's highest ever wage bill at £643m and creates possible FFP headache
- Paris Saint-Germain racked up football's highest-ever wage bill last season
- Additions of Lionel Messi, Sergio Ramos and Achraf Hakimi drove outlay up
- They were added to a squad featuring high-earners Neymar and Kylian Mbappe
- A new report puts PSG's 2021-22 wage bill at £643m - the biggest ever seen
- It dwarfs the previously highest at Barcelona - who also had Messi - in 2019
- PSG recorded a huge £326m loss in their latest financial figures as a result

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... gning.html

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:45 pm
It is that time of year for reports and analysis in Football - first up is Football Benchmark with their 'European Champions Report' - QSI/PSG are going to be in the news quite a bit after this I feel

the introduction and statement
https://www.footballbenchmark.com/libra ... eport_2023

the full report
https://www.footballbenchmark.com/docum ... 202023.pdf

and like I said PSG are going to generate a lot of news

REVEALED: The eye-watering numbers behind PSG's massive £326MILLION losses in 2022... as big-money contracts for Lionel Messi and Co create football's highest ever wage bill at £643m and creates possible FFP headache
- Paris Saint-Germain racked up football's highest-ever wage bill last season
- Additions of Lionel Messi, Sergio Ramos and Achraf Hakimi drove outlay up
- They were added to a squad featuring high-earners Neymar and Kylian Mbappe
- A new report puts PSG's 2021-22 wage bill at £643m - the biggest ever seen
- It dwarfs the previously highest at Barcelona - who also had Messi - in 2019
- PSG recorded a huge £326m loss in their latest financial figures as a result

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... gning.html
A lovely turn of phrase from the chaps at Vysyble in regard to that report in the Mail on PSG's 2021/22 finances as outlined by Football Benchmark

"Football’s sinkhole economics in action…"
https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1612 ... SF4-EsAAAA

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:13 pm

@CIESsportsIntel with an up to date overview of European Football Clubs now owned by US Investors - the number has almost tripled in 3 years

https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... vay-EsAAAA

Image

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:14 pm

@CIESsportsIntel with an up to date overview of European Football Clubs now owned by US Investors - the number has almost tripled in 3 years

https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... vay-EsAAAA

Image

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by clarethomer » Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:51 pm

Just posted this on a gambling thread but perhaps also financially related too if you want to keep this in one place

Just read that Villa are getting BK8 as a new sponsor following the announcement of Cazoo deal ending.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/ ... 8-25944255

BK8 sponsor us on our training wear I think and were the company that had their deal terminated by Norwich due to over sexualised advertising and a not so clear corporate structure.

Daily Telegraph (can't read the article) also writing about the fact that football clubs cannot be trusted when it comes to getting into bed with gambling firms. Not sure if anyone has a way of getting around the paywall but would be interested to see what they are saying.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:31 pm

It seems like we get an article like this every year or so now with a different club being called the ideal each time - and usually at the expense of the hubris of a struggling (former) giant - Martyn Zeigler in the Times attacks Chelsea and Everton

Chelsea, this is what a well-run Premier League club looks like
As Chelsea and Everton spend extravagantly but perform poorly, the data-driven approaches of Brighton and Brentford prove success doesn’t have to be bought in the transfer market

https://archive.is/AokkP

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:34 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:31 pm
It seems like we get an article like this every year or so now with a different club being called the ideal each time - and usually at the expense of the hubris of a struggling (former) giant - Martyn Zeigler in the Times attacks Chelsea and Everton

Chelsea, this is what a well-run Premier League club looks like
As Chelsea and Everton spend extravagantly but perform poorly, the data-driven approaches of Brighton and Brentford prove success doesn’t have to be bought in the transfer market

https://archive.is/AokkP
I cannot help thinking of Miguel Delaney on these occasions
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=48329

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:41 am

This one article contains many of the key themes of this thread - from The Athletic

Inside Cristiano Ronaldo’s move to Saudi Arabia’s Al Nassr: Rejection, revenge and soft power
https://archive.is/QCIt1

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:49 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:31 pm
It seems like we get an article like this every year or so now with a different club being called the ideal each time - and usually at the expense of the hubris of a struggling (former) giant - Martyn Zeigler in the Times attacks Chelsea and Everton

Chelsea, this is what a well-run Premier League club looks like
As Chelsea and Everton spend extravagantly but perform poorly, the data-driven approaches of Brighton and Brentford prove success doesn’t have to be bought in the transfer market

https://archive.is/AokkP
Post-hoc springs to mind. Someone has an ideological perspective of what a club should do in any given situation and then seek clubs that are performing well on the pitch and make an assumption that there are strong correlational links between ideological perspective and performance regardless of any other significant variables.

It's endemic all over the place but particularly bad on here.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:15 pm

Adrian Goldberg getting quite hung-up about West Brom's ownership model - it is surprising just how few do not seem to recognise this is the way football club ownership is going - you may not like the people/entities in the background (and questions need to be asked about state involvement here) but the essential model is not really different to that which owns our club or the ones which own Liverpool and Chelsea

A Tangled Web
West Brom's Complicated Ownership Structure

https://adriangoldberg.substack.com/p/a ... medium=web

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:02 pm

I am far from being totally convinced by this argument by Javier Tebas re the Premier League being financially unstable particularly as he is basing his arguments on results still impacted by Covid - we know what happened to the club that managed it's way sustainably through Covid (clue it is ours)

from the Guardian

Premier League ‘not financially sustainable’, says La Liga’s Javier Tebas
- ‘All clubs lose money’, claims La Liga president
- Tebas says English teams distort transfer market

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... vier-tebas

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:18 pm

anything that comes out of Spain should just be ignored and laughed at imho, absolute crooks

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:26 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:18 pm
anything that comes out of Spain should just be ignored and laughed at imho, absolute crooks
I have a certain level of admiration for the way Tebas fights his corner and there is no doubt that La Liga's financial regulations are more sustainable (and backed up with real bite in their enforcement - they also tend to keep the status quo, particularly given the disparity in the way it distributes the central revenues (largely from Broadcast partners) - this remains unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:05 pm

this is the theme of Tebas speech today before he veered off on the rant above

from The Athletic

New-look Super League planning fresh ‘attack’ on European football, warns Javier Tebas
https://archive.is/iCh6d

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:09 pm

The above was prompted by this from last week - note how Joan Laporta talks essentially of a merging of Super League and The Premier League - this is what has Tebas aiming at the Premier League today

Barcelona president Joan Laporta: European Super League could be a reality by 2025
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/barcelo ... ty-by-2025

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Lip » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:38 pm

Great idea,get rid of Utd,Citeh,Chelsea,Liverpool,Arsenal and Blackburn. 😁

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:04 pm

As always the plan is to run Super League alongside the domestic leagues - that is the battleground that A22/UEFA are fighting in the European court after the advisory - I had thought UEFA/Europa Leagues could ban them as a result of the advisory Matt Slaters piece in the Athletic today was much more cautious on that front

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:05 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:44 pm
no surprise that this story first broke elsewhere - namely Martin Zeigler at The Time - here's his article, the meeting is a hugely significant step into the unknown for all.

English football chiefs to hold summit over biggest shake-up in 30 years
Six leading figures will meet to discuss proposals that include elite clubs skipping the Carabao Cup and playing the Community Shield abroad

https://archive.is/ofISz
I missed this earlier in the week - Rick Parry did a piece in the Times on the subjects of last weeks talks- there was also a supplementary article from Martyn Zeigler

Zeigler
Rick Parry: EFL chairman to warn MPs of football’s ‘existential crisis’
https://archive.is/k7ZSK

Rick Parry
Ministers have a once-in-a-generation chance to fix English football
https://archive.is/cmb0V

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:54 pm

A return tot he roots of this thread, and a story that will no doubt unfold to envelope many of the themes which have since distinguished it - from the Telegraph

Manchester United takeover offers imminent from Middle East, Asia and US
Club are expected to invite bids by mid-February with Sir Jim Ratcliffe still monitoring the situation

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... asia-us%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:07 pm

an all too familiar story of an English Football club getting a new owner who spends beyond the means of a club because they are 'ambitious' but gets the decision making badly wrong and reaches a point where they have had enough, and the club finds itself in serious peril - this time we are talking about Scunthorpe - from The Athletic

Special report: Scunthorpe United, a club on the brink
https://archive.is/b8jez

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:50 pm

Anyone who has watched the Everton situation since the arrival of Moshri will not be surprised by this revelation - to many observers including a number of fans at Goodison the influence of Usmanov on proceedings was always apparent -

Questions mount over Alisher Usmanov’s links with Everton FC
Sources claim five football managers held talks over top job in presence of now-sanctioned oligarch

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... everton-fc

Is Moshri a proxy? - the investigation really needs to start in the Isle of Man and where the money for most of Moshri's spending at Everton comes from - Blue Heaven Holdings

of course we have been here before
Paradise Papers: Who is in control of Everton?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41878954

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:05 pm

Is the Premier Leagues Dream return to serious bidding rivals for domestic rights about to come true? - from the Mail

AHEAD OF THE GAME: Apple TV set to enter bidding war for Premier League rights

Apple TV are preparing a bid for the next set of Premier League domestic television rights that would transform the way the topflight is broadcast in this country.

The tech giant are looking to increase their live football coverage, with a 10-year contract to broadcast Major League Soccer beginning next month.

They have already dipped their toe into the Premier League market by making a documentary about the European Super League, called The War for Football, which was released yesterday.

The Premier League’s current three-year deal with Sky Sports and BT Sport expires in 2025, with the tender process for the next set of rights due to begin later this year.

Many clubs with American owners, such as Chelsea under Todd Boehly, are convinced that at £5.1billion over three years the current rights are undervalued and are looking to US tech companies to drive up the price.

A serious bid from Apple is the biggest threat to Sky Sports’ dominance of Premier League coverage since they gained exclusive rights to the competition in 1992, as they have the financial clout to challenge them.
...............................................................

Has anyone watched that documentary about the European Super League, "The War for Football" - it is on my to do list but not started yet

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