Football's Magic Money Tree

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:04 am

329 footballers 'are under investigation for suspected tax avoidance' https://mol.im/a/10998891 via https://dailym.ai/android

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:34 am

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... 1657441673

A number of free agents are finding it harder to land big pay days compared to previous years.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:45 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:24 am
It has taken a while but there is finally a date for the European Court of Justice to hear the case of Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus (plus the other co-conspirators in Super League) against UEFA's monopoly

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1 ... rBtMQqAAAA

@tariqpanja
Date set for European Court of Justice hearing into Super League company v UEFA. Feels like a big moment: Is UEFA abusing its monopoly position?

Two day hearing: July 11-12
⚽️ 💰🏫
So, you have probably forgotten about it but the last two days have seen what some billed as the fught over the future of football

as is the way with these things the judge appeared to show complete ignorance (is this a good or a bad thing?) and UEFA/European Commission struggled to justify the closed shop model - fortunately there is no judgement but we will have to wait until December 15th for an opinion to be released

here are two threads about the proceedings - the first from Tariq Panja finishes with a notification from UEFA which appears to be an effort pre-empt a few things

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1 ... 4686446593

The second appears to give a much clearer understanding owhat actually went on in the hearing

https://twitter.com/lewis_crofts/status ... 9069801473

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:06 am

As the multi-club model grows there are getting to be some rather intriguing cross investment relationships - things are starting to get far too complicated for the games authorities to manage - as always in this approach FIFA/UEFA are just too far behind the curve

just look at how complex it is getting - and this has seemingly missed that Josh Harris has a stake in Crystal Palace too!
https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... X0gvEqAAAA
https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... 06/photo/1

then there is Serie A which has seen an explosion of takeovers in recent years
https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... KkxvcqAAAA
https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/sta ... 37/photo/1

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:39 pm

Possibly some of the strangest conclusions I have ever seen from a Matt Slater article in the Athletic - is the heat getting to him? - link is to an archive copy so o paywall issues

Which Premier League clubs fared best financially in last two seasons? Grading each club
https://archive.ph/VPCM9

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:00 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:45 am
So, you have probably forgotten about it but the last two days have seen what some billed as the fught over the future of football

as is the way with these things the judge appeared to show complete ignorance (is this a good or a bad thing?) and UEFA/European Commission struggled to justify the closed shop model - fortunately there is no judgement but we will have to wait until December 15th for an opinion to be released

here are two threads about the proceedings - the first from Tariq Panja finishes with a notification from UEFA which appears to be an effort pre-empt a few things

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1 ... 4686446593

The second appears to give a much clearer understanding owhat actually went on in the hearing

https://twitter.com/lewis_crofts/status ... 9069801473
Sam Wallace in the Telegraph with an typical take on Barcelona's finances and a spin on this weeks hearing with the ESL 3

Debt-zombie Barcelona can only be saved by the European Super League
Catalan giants have more riding on attempts to revive the ESL than anyone given the way they have gambled with their financial future

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -league%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:52 pm

There have been a number of clubs in the EFL who have argued that iFolllow was discriminatory since its inception - most notably Andy Holt of Accrington Stanley, I said as much at the time on this thread I believe - here the Athletic looks at the current issues - archive copy so no paywall

Streaming is EFL’s latest battle – big clubs could prosper as others fall behind
https://archive.ph/WnJur

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:54 pm

This is interesting - and shows just how UEFA has upped its commercial game since it entered into an equal partnership with the ECA (headed up by PSG's President and beINSport's Chairman Nasser Al-Kheliafi) clubs

Champions League US Rights Could Fetch $2.5 Billion

https://huddleup.substack.com/p/champio ... e=substack

It kind of backs up the years of arguments from the ESL three

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:24 pm

Jonathan Lieuw in the Guardian looks at Barcelona;s spending and laments the way the game has in many ways stopped being about what happens on the pitch

Barcelona’s summer spree is not about building a team but selling a story
Jonathan Liew

The signing of Robert Lewandowski highlights a policy of spending money the club do not have to maintain a myth

Mon 18 Jul 2022 19.00 BST

Robert Lewandowski has signed a four-year deal with Barcelona, which means he probably has a good 18 months before they ask him to take a wage cut. Give or take. Naturally a good deal depends on how much deeper into their financial quarry Barcelona have managed to dig themselves in the meantime. Perhaps, alternatively, Lewandowski will be asked to defer a portion of his salary, or maybe amortise it into 420 easy monthly instalments, or accept payment in the form of $BAR fan tokens.

This is the perk of being the world’s biggest and most incoherent club: there is always another lever to squeeze. Bankrolled by the partial sale of their broadcast rights for the next 25 years, Barcelona have brought Lewandowski, Raphinha, Franck Kessié and Andreas Christensen to the Camp Nou this summer. César Azpilicueta, Jules Koundé and Bernardo Silva are also being pursued. In a way this is the most mystifying part of Barcelona’s spending spree, over and above the question of where the money is coming from. What sane player would join this ridiculous club in the first place? What have they been told? And just what, exactly, are Barcelona playing at?

It is just under six months since the president, Joan Laporta, held an extraordinary press conference unveiling the results of an internal audit that discovered evidence of false accounting, forging of documents, unexplained payments to third parties and colossal financial mismanagement. Debts were running at close to £1bn. Player wages required a substantial cut to comply with La Liga regulations. Nevertheless, Laporta also had some proud news to report: the signing of Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang was on the verge of being completed by the end of the week.

This curious doublethink – “we’re broke, new signings incoming!” – has persisted into the summer. Never mind that two new forwards were hardly the priority for a squad already boasting Aubameyang, Memphis Depay, Ousmane Dembélé, Ferran Torres and Ansu Fati. Never mind that senior players are being pressed to take another pay cut, after many agreed wage reductions during the pandemic. Never mind that the sale of Frenkie de Jong to Manchester United is being held up by around £17m in owed wages. This is Barcelona, where the sun always rises and the party never stops.

The consensus within the game – from fans, from agents, even from rival clubs – is that Barcelona’s spending defies sense, that it is a doomed and deeply irresponsible gamble on their future, perhaps even a form of betrayal. That given the rich pipeline of talent flowing from La Masia, Barcelona could simply have made a virtue of their straitened circumstances and allowed Xavi to build a new squad around the rich academy talent of Pedri, Gavi and Riqui Puig. There may be a good deal of logic in all this. But to shake a fist at Barcelona for living beyond their means is really to misunderstand what motivates this club, what turns the wheels of modern football, a world where logic only occasionally impinges.

Laporta may be many things but he is not stupid. What he recognises, above all, is that Barcelona’s future is not necessarily tied up in financial probity or sound business sense or even trophy accumulation but in self-projection. The last pre-pandemic accounts showed that Barcelona derive just 18% of income from matchday revenue. Most of the rest – the television subscriptions, the Spotify sponsorship deal, the merchandise, the global network of soccer schools, renting out the Camp Nou pitch for weddings – is not remotely contingent on Barcelona winning anything. It relies purely on Barcelona being Barcelona: the brand, the behemoth, the myth.

In a way Barcelona are no longer building a football team. They are selling a story. The loss of Lionel Messi was devastating on a sporting and emotional level but much worse was the brand damage: the pall of decline, the sense that this giant of the game might no longer be an ultimate destination. And so only a response of equal and opposite magnitude would suffice. The idea of recasting itself a smaller, better-run club is antithetical to every commercial principle the modern Barcelona stand for. Grasp this, and everything else follows.

In any case, look further afield and you may wonder what possible motivation Barcelona might have for conducting themselves more modestly. Paris Saint-Germain and Manchester City have demonstrated the effectiveness of disregarding financial strictures and essentially forcing the rest of the sport to bend to their hubris and might. Manchester United spend the best part of a decade ignoring the future and simply get richer and richer. Saying one thing and then doing another is the foundation stone of modern politics. Contracts are routinely signed for five years and ripped up after 12 months and any player who wants them honoured can simply be framed as lazy, selfish or mercenary.

Nothing really means anything. Failures are never really punished. Gambles are never really gambles. Twelve of the world’s biggest clubs try to destroy European football and their punishment is simply to let them back in and give them another go. Miss out on the Champions League and you can get the rules changed in your favour. In these circumstances, why would you not conclude that might makes right, that the good times will keep on rolling, that money is whatever you say it is?

The most disastrous season in Barcelona’s recent history ended with a second-placed finish, a record sponsorship deal and, soon afternow, the signing of the best striker in the world. What exactly are Barcelona playing at here? In a way it is just the same game as everyone else.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:46 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:22 pm
It is probably enough to raise fear in the mind of any football fan in this country even when your club has been run in a quite shambolic fashion for as long as Birmingham City has been

from the Telegraph - link by passes the paywall
Birmingham City close to being taken over by former Watford owner Laurence Bassini

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... bassini%2F
In recent weeks Laurence Bassini has demonstrated very clearly why he should not be allowed to own a football club - but when your club is up the creek without a paddle it seems the same names keep floating into the story - Take this about the proposed new bidders for Birmingham City - it all sounds rather more promising until you read that Matt Southall is the person lined up to be CEO.

Football has got itself into a real mess

I have posted offerings from Almajir previously - this is a fan who like many around the country who has had to learn a lot so as to try and understand what is happening to his club

BCFC: Car Park Pressers
https://almajir.net/2022/07/20/bcfc-car-park-pressers/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:17 am

This is an interesting read for those who look to Leicester as some kind of model -particularly what one summer of poor trading can do to a club with limited earnings on Matchdays and commercially - the owners continue to spend on the infrastructure (a shiny stadium expansion is in the works to complement that £100m training/Academy facility) but that attempt to seal a long term breach of the big six is stalling
From the Telegraph - paywall bypassed at the link

The Leicester logjam: Why Brendan Rodgers' transfer plans have been paralysed
Leicester City are the only club in the Premier League yet to make a signing this summer - and they have to sell players before they can buy
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... ralysed%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfcjg » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:23 am

I wonder if that's why Tarks ended up at Everton not Leicester as he was strongly linked to go there.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Dingo » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:17 am
This is an interesting read for those who look to Leicester as some kind of model -particularly what one summer of poor trading can do to a club with limited earnings on Matchdays and commercially - the owners continue to spend on the infrastructure (a shiny stadium expansion is in the works to complement that £100m training/Academy facility) but that attempt to seal a long term breach of the big six is stalling
From the Telegraph - paywall bypassed at the link

The Leicester logjam: Why Brendan Rodgers' transfer plans have been paralysed
Leicester City are the only club in the Premier League yet to make a signing this summer - and they have to sell players before they can buy
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... ralysed%2F
Thanks for sharing all the articles, including those paywalled. Will read them all when I get the chance. On the Leicester story, I seem to recall their level of debt is pretty staggering, but owed to the owners, as is the case with many clubs these days, including others that some aspire to like Brighton. It’s a financial model that I really dislike, especially alongside the wages that are being paid out above what clubs can sustainably afford. When a squad player is earning £millions but only plays a handful of games a year, it’s inevitable clubs will rack up debt. It’s totally distorted competition and it can only be a matter of time until clubs start imploding. The sooner we have an independent regulator to instil some sanity back into football ownership and financial operation, the better.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:51 am

Projected losses of £90 million :shock:

Oh well, the Premier League isn't overly fussed about this sort of thing.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:07 pm

It took Roman Abramovich almost 19 years to put £1.5 billion of debt onto Chelsea - all of it owed to himself - The new owner group supposed paid £2.5bn with guarantees of a further £1bn+ to be spent on infrastructure. There are 5 billionaires in the ownership group though there is speculation that the sale was funded with borrowings by some of them which this would seem to confirm - here is the FT with some detail on an £800m credit deal by some of the partners - link to an archive copy to bypass the paywall

New Chelsea FC owners raise £800mn of debt to reshape club
Financing eclipses $650mn raised by Manchester City parent company last year

https://archive.ph/cokKJ

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:26 pm

Speaking of Chelsea - they have long generated income from their Academy to supplement their other revenues, and many clubs have followed suit, particularly Manchester City. This article from the Athletic asks if it still makes sense - link to an archive copy to bypass the paywall

Are Chelsea right or wrong to sell so many of their homegrown players?
https://archive.ph/gG63h

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:17 pm

Interesting piece in the Telegraph in regard to the recent history of Everton and how Moshri's erratic ownership has created problems, includes the long running influence of Usmanov - link bypasses the paywall

There is one good reason why Everton fear another season of struggle
Frank Lampard must crack on but, under Farhad Moshiri, nobody can be entirely sure how different this season will be from the last six

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... truggle%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:22 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:17 pm
Interesting piece in the Telegraph in regard to the recent history of Everton and how Moshri's erratic ownership has created problems, includes the long running influence of Usmanov - link bypasses the paywall

There is one good reason why Everton fear another season of struggle
Frank Lampard must crack on but, under Farhad Moshiri, nobody can be entirely sure how different this season will be from the last six

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... truggle%2F
Interesting comment from that article -
Speaking to Dutch media this summer, ex-Sporting Director Marcel Brands confirmed what has long been obvious about Moshiri: he is highly impressionable and likely to change course on a whim.

“I was fighting to make a player contract of £50,000-a-week, £45,000 a week because that fitted better in the wage structure and matched the quality of the player,” Brands told De Telegraaf. “And then the owner called, saying that he had been sitting with another player and that he could come for £175,000-a-week. Then you say: ‘What’s that going to do in the dressing room? He earns three times as much as the others.’”

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:04 am

The Telegraph with a somewhat disturbing report on the season ticket situation at Derby County, were the prolonged takeover means that there will be no Direct Debit facility for Season Tickets before the season starts - The supporters trust do not come out of this well at all with their recommendation - link bypassed the paywall

Derby County fans told to use 42 per cent interest loan to pay for season tickets
Recent takeover has left the League One club with no direct debit provision in time for the new season

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -season%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:08 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:00 am
Sam Wallace in the Telegraph with an typical take on Barcelona's finances and a spin on this weeks hearing with the ESL 3

Debt-zombie Barcelona can only be saved by the European Super League
Catalan giants have more riding on attempts to revive the ESL than anyone given the way they have gambled with their financial future

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -league%2F
@SwissRamble with is take on how Barcelona are able to drive through this summers spending

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 0562532352

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:14 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:08 am
@SwissRamble with is take on how Barcelona are able to drive through this summers spending

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 0562532352
It is worth noting the spending (and debt) in Italian Football and then considering how that may change following a recent spate of takeovers in Serie A by American Private Equity funds

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:23 am

this will not come as a surprise to many I would think, researchers believe that the sale of public land by the council to Manchester City's owners is difficult to justify - from the Athletic - link to an archive copy to avoid the paywall- it follows previous stories about the way the new apartment buildings are managed

Sale of public land to Manchester City owners deemed ‘difficult to justify’ by researchers
https://archive.ph/asCn0

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:36 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:23 am
this will not come as a surprise to many I would think, researchers believe that the sale of public land by the council to Manchester City's owners is difficult to justify - from the Athletic - link to an archive copy to avoid the paywall- it follows previous stories about the way the new apartment buildings are managed

Sale of public land to Manchester City owners deemed ‘difficult to justify’ by researchers
https://archive.ph/asCn0
the Guardian - born in Manchester but now resident in London has been gnashing its teeth over this too

How a great English city sold itself to Abu Dhabi’s elite – and not even for a good price
Manchester’s Labour council let Sheikh Mansour buy up acres of public land for seemingly a fraction of its worth – how was this allowed?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... manchester

Of course this is exactly the kind of thing that the new ownership at Newcastle are trying to achieve - it was the Property Developers - the Reuben Brothers that facilitated the deal - it is also familiar to what was touted in the build up of our sale to VSL - all that Northern Powerhouse stuff - just that VSL (for now at least) do not have the kind of partner with the financial power to inflict itself on our corner of East Lancashire. Some of is would say thankfully so given the joyless functionality of what tends to be inflicted on the communities that "benefit" from such investment

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:22 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:23 am
this will not come as a surprise to many I would think, researchers believe that the sale of public land by the council to Manchester City's owners is difficult to justify - from the Athletic - link to an archive copy to avoid the paywall- it follows previous stories about the way the new apartment buildings are managed

Sale of public land to Manchester City owners deemed ‘difficult to justify’ by researchers
https://archive.ph/asCn0
If you are interested in reading the report on the sale of land to Abu Dhabi by MAnchester City Council you can find it here to download

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/crafic/rese ... dium=email

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:23 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:04 am
The Telegraph with a somewhat disturbing report on the season ticket situation at Derby County, were the prolonged takeover means that there will be no Direct Debit facility for Season Tickets before the season starts - The supporters trust do not come out of this well at all with their recommendation - link bypassed the paywall

Derby County fans told to use 42 per cent interest loan to pay for season tickets
Recent takeover has left the League One club with no direct debit provision in time for the new season

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -season%2F
The new Derby owner David Coates has issued a statement about the direct debit situation for season tickets

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2022/07/dav ... ect-debits

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Swizzlestick » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:34 pm

It appears we've reached a similar arrangement with Macquarie Bank and NUFC re Nick Pope as we did with Chris Wood.

https://tinyurl.com/2acd6j9b

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:37 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:34 pm
It appears we've reached a similar arrangement with Macquarie Bank and NUFC re Nick Pope as we did with Chris Wood.

https://tinyurl.com/2acd6j9b
Link isn't working

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Swizzlestick » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:40 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:37 pm
Link isn't working
Sorry, latest entry here
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:44 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:40 pm
Sorry, latest entry here
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history
yep, not unexpected, factored the remaining sum - how have we got into a position of letting the worlds richest club not pay such a fee upfront?
£7m across three years - what will the interest fee from us on that?

I am expecting the same on the Collins deal too

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:47 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:44 pm
yep, not unexpected, factored the remaining sum - how have we got into a position of letting the worlds richest club not pay such a fee upfront?
£7m across three years - what will the interest fee from us on that?

I am expecting the same on the Collins deal too
I should say that we are paying a fee to advance monies, some of which will have to be paid forward to Charlton too

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Nori1958 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:48 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:44 pm
yep, not unexpected, factored the remaining sum - how have we got into a position of letting the worlds richest club not pay such a fee upfront?
£7m across three years - what will the interest fee from us on that?

I am expecting the same on the Collins deal too
Iam sure City, Chelsea etc pay in installments.... Why should Newcastle be any different?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:53 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:48 pm
Iam sure City, Chelsea etc pay in installments.... Why should Newcastle be any different?
It comes down to the fee size, many would say Pope was sold on the cheap, and how the club are then paying additional fees to advance the money - the balance of inflation v interest rate will determine if the NPV is a good deal - either way the fee for Pope has been reduced in real terms by these moves
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Nori1958 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:19 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:53 pm
It comes down to the fee size, many would say Pope was sold on the cheap, and how the club are then paying additional fees to advance the money - the balance of inflation v interest rate will determine if the NPV is a good deal - either way the fee for Pope has been reduced in real terms by these moves
Not the point I was making... It was your comment about allowing Newcastle not to pay all up front. All clubs, however rich pay transfers in installments... Why should Newcastle be any different?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by joey13 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:21 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:48 pm
Iam sure City, Chelsea etc pay in installments.... Why should Newcastle be any different?
How sure are you that’s the case , I thought the whole point of selling Pope on the cheap was that we got the full amount upfront.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:24 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:19 pm
Not the point I was making... It was your comment about allowing Newcastle not to pay all up front. All clubs, however rich pay transfers in installments... Why should Newcastle be any different?
but it was the point I was making - so we both made reasonable points, you just misinterpreted my initial point - which can happen and is nothing to stress about

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:27 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:53 pm
It comes down to the fee size, many would say Pope was sold on the cheap, and how the club are then paying additional fees to advance the money - the balance of inflation v interest rate will determine if the NPV is a good deal - either way the fee for Pope has been reduced in real terms by these moves
‘Many would say’ - who, delusional Burnley fans who think every player is worth 3/4x more than what the market says? I personally felt 10m rising to 15m was fine given the circumstances.

As you say, I’m sure cash flow forecasting has been done and there is good reason, assuming a positive NPV, for the advancements.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Nori1958 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:38 pm

joey13 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:21 pm
How sure are you that’s the case , I thought the whole point of selling Pope on the cheap was that we got the full amount upfront.
Hadn't read that.... Can you give me a link

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Nori1958 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:38 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:24 pm
but it was the point I was making - so we both made reasonable points, you just misinterpreted my initial point - which can happen and is nothing to stress about
Sorry..

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by joey13 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:42 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:38 pm
Hadn't read that.... Can you give me a link
Hadn’t read what ?
We didn’t sell Pope on the cheap ?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:43 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:38 pm
Sorry..
thank you, but not necessary in the circumstance

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Nori1958 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:48 pm

joey13 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:42 pm
Hadn’t read what ?
We didn’t sell Pope on the cheap ?
No... The point you made that we sold him cheap in order to get the fee paid in full upfront, so a link would be nice so that I could read it

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Mattster » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:01 pm

The thing we don't know is what the initial, upfront fee was. Assumption is £3m - £5m, but we don't know for sure.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:05 pm

Would you say it’s likely the fee has been advanced to help fund our transfer activity and major rebuild?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dandeclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:17 pm

Is this debt factoring, not just storing up cash flow problems for 3 years time? At some point (assuming the cash is being used either to pay debt or invest in something for future growth) the transfer cash flow is going to bite the club isn't it?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:18 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:05 pm
Would you say it’s likely the fee has been advanced to help fund our transfer activity and major rebuild?
We have spent next to nothing so far. The money has to be going somewhere

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RVclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:20 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:18 pm
We have spent next to nothing so far. The money has to be going somewhere
I make it around 13m spent. And we know bids of 6m+ went in for O’Hare. Then there is also the obvious balancing of books required for relegated sides to consider.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:23 pm

The problem with kicking the can down the road is that eventually we run out of road

I assume that is what we are doing here?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:25 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:17 pm
Is this debt factoring, not just storing up cash flow problems for 3 years time? At some point (assuming the cash is being used either to pay debt or invest in something for future growth) the transfer cash flow is going to bite the club isn't it?
potentially, if we are not paying full fees up front

though we do not know what league we will be in or what additional revenue streams the club may develop

there will also be the view that we can sell the new acquisitions - ideally at a profit, which seems to be part of the plan

Not all plans come to successful fruition, though the idea is to generate an overall profit not on an individual transaction basis

There is a scale of risk we have never experienced before, but that has been the consistent theme of the takeover

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:27 pm

This discussion should really be on another thread - possibly this one

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... start=9900

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dandeclaret » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:33 pm

Continuing on here…..

There’s numerous examples of football clubs becoming unstuck through the factoring of future income. Are there many success stories? Eventually if this is wrong now, there’s going to be no safety net. It’s high risk, high return as a strategy….. back to the bet the ranch days?

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