Brexit Food Shortages

[RingoMcCartney]

Pretty much every home match for the last 40 years. How about you?

Aye oreight!

If it were true you, you'd know that when I said the majority of those on would have voted Leave I was using the turf as somewhere that we'd all recognise. And I was using it to make a general point about the population of Burnley voting Leave and the turf , seeing as this is a football message board as a typical cross section of the People who live here. But oh no! the pedants came out in their little gaggle and started whining on about who such and such sits next to me. About percentages blah blah.

So you highlight just how patheticly childish you can be when it comes to people making general points and then people like you argue to the enth degree.

Exactly like now. Using SEVEN year old "facts" to try and trip up Jakubclaret.

And all done from your kept in clover lifestyles. I can remember when the Left, the real Left, used to actually care about the plight of those at the bottom of the pile. The nouveau Left that infest this site, are just obsessed about nit picking pedantry and doing their best at preserving their privelige and entitlement. And if those at the bottom suffer, well it's tough. Isn't that right Marty.

[RingoMcCartney]

Guess what Wrongo, no one claimed that only 0.3% of the workforce were of Eastern European origin. Go on, prove me wrong, point to where they did

Guess what Marty Jakub claret was using polish as a generic term.

See the above post.

You've just confirmed in a perfect single, desperate to go down a rabbit hole of pedantry, post succinctly what I say above.

Good effort.!

[martin_p]

Aye oreight!

If it were true you, you'd know that when I said the majority of those on would have voted Leave I was using the turf as somewhere that we'd all recognise. And I was using it to make a general point about the population of Burnley voting Leave and the turf , seeing as this is a football message board as a typical cross section of the People who live here. But oh no! the pedants came out in their little gaggle and started whining on about who such and such sits next to me. About percentages blah blah.

So you highlight just how patheticly childish you can be when it comes to people making general points and then people like you argue to the enth degree.

Exactly like now. Using SEVEN year old "facts" to try and trip up Jakubclaret.

And all done from your kept in clover lifestyles. I can remember when the Left, the real Left, used to actually care about the plight of those at the bottom of the pile. The nouveau Left that infest this site, are just obsessed about nit picking pedantry and doing their best at preserving their privelige and entitlement. And if those at the bottom suffer, well it's tough. Isn't that right Marty.

Well I’m not the one supporting an economically suicidal Brexit which will hit those at the bottom the hardest.

You claim to support ‘those at the bottom’ but I haven’t heard one word of dissent from you on the austerity measures that have disproportionately effected those at the bottom or the benefit cuts that have left families depending on food banks. Now you want to make their lives worse. Even the most ardent a Brexiteer admits that the U.K. will take an economic hit when we leave. Who do you think that will hurt the most? Your concern for ‘those at the bottom’ only seems to peak when it can be used as an excuse to have a go at immigrants. So don’t pretend to care Wrongo, because your concern is very, very transparent!

[Jakubclaret]

Aye oreight!

If it were true you, you'd know that when I said the majority of those on would have voted Leave I was using the turf as somewhere that we'd all recognise. And I was using it to make a general point about the population of Burnley voting Leave and the turf , seeing as this is a football message board as a typical cross section of the People who live here. But oh no! the pedants came out in their little gaggle and started whining on about who such and such sits next to me. About percentages blah blah.

So you highlight just how patheticly childish you can be when it comes to people making general points and then people like you argue to the enth degree.

Exactly like now. Using SEVEN year old "facts" to try and trip up Jakubclaret.

And all done from your kept in clover lifestyles. I can remember when the Left, the real Left, used to actually care about the plight of those at the bottom of the pile. The nouveau Left that infest this site, are just obsessed about nit picking pedantry and doing their best at preserving their privelige and entitlement. And if those at the bottom suffer, well it's tough. Isn't that right Marty.

Lead boots anchored, I've also got the knowledge to get me out of tight spots, politically I can hold my own. Still waiting for numerous answers which haven't been answered satisfactory or not even attempted in my view.

[martin_p]

Guess what Marty Jakub claret was using polish as a generic term.

See the above post.

You've just confirmed in a perfect single, desperate to go down a rabbit hole of pedantry, post succinctly what I say above.

Good effort.!

So you can’t then. I’ve suggested it before and I’ll say it again. Please look up the definition of pedantry. Maybe you’ll be able to use it in the correct way.

[RingoMcCartney]

Well I’m not the one supporting an economically suicidal Brexit which will hit those at the bottom the hardest.

You claim to support ‘those at the bottom’ but I haven’t heard one word of dissent from you on the austerity measures that have disproportionately effected those at the bottom or the benefit cuts that have left families depending on food banks. Now you want to make their lives worse. Even the most ardent a Brexiteer admits that the U.K. will take an economic hit when we leave. Who do you think that will hurt the most? Your concern for ‘those at the bottom’ only seems to peak when it can be used as an excuse to have a go at immigrants. So don’t pretend to care Wrongo, because your concern is very, very transparent!

Hey Marty. I've got news for you. It's was those at the bottom that voted in their millions to leave. Those at the bottom that registered and voted for the first time in decades. Because it was their chance to give the political Establishment a big **** off. Places like Burnley. Keighley. Bradford, Hartlepool. How many millions of jobs have been lost while we've been in the EU? Did Labour repeal the anti trade union laws brought in by Thatcher? No! They embarked on programme of mass immigration to "rub the noses of the right" . Mandelson boasted that "we sent out search parties to lassoo immigrants back to the UK" And they did it because they said the indigenous population "had no where to go, politically"

So don't give me the austerity BS. The working class of Britain have effectively been in austerity for the last 40 odd years while we've been IN the EU. UNDER ALL COLOURS OF GOVERNMENTS. And towns like Burnley have been cleansed of decent paying jobs and it's workforce been forced to join the race to the bottom in wages, opportunities and ambition.

But you'll not see any of this when you occasionally waft in to visit the turf will you Marty?

I bet you get cracking phone reception in that ivory tower of yours don't you.

[RingoMcCartney]

So you can’t then..

Listen to your supercilious self.

If you can't accept what Jakub claret meant, youre gonna be very lonely down that rabbit hole of pedantry. I ain't joining ya.

Stick to your ivory tower....

[RingoMcCartney]

Well I’m not the one supporting an economically suicidal Brexit which will hit those at the bottom the hardest.

You claim to support ‘those at the bottom’ but I haven’t heard one word of dissent from you on the austerity measures that have disproportionately effected those at the bottom or the benefit cuts that have left families depending on food banks. Now you want to make their lives worse. Even the most ardent a Brexiteer admits that the U.K. will take an economic hit when we leave. Who do you think that will hurt the most? Your concern for ‘those at the bottom’ only seems to peak when it can be used as an excuse to have a go at immigrants. So don’t pretend to care Wrongo, because your concern is very, very transparent!

And by the way Marty. I don't "claim to support those at the bottom."

I'm one of the feckers.

[martin_p]

Listen to your supercilious self.

If you can't accept what Jakub claret meant, youre gonna be very lonely down that rabbit hole of pedantry. I ain't joining ya.

Stick to your ivory tower....

See that’s the thing with language. If you say something then people think that’s what you mean as they aren’t mind readers. So it doesn’t really matter what he meant as the response was to what he said.

[martin_p]

Hey Marty. I've got news for you. It's was those at the bottom that voted in their millions to leave. Those at the bottom that registered and voted for the first time in decades. Because it was their chance to give the political Establishment a big **** off. Places like Burnley. Keighley. Bradford, Hartlepool. How many millions of jobs have been lost while we've been in the EU? Did Labour repeal the anti trade union laws brought in by Thatcher? No! They embarked on programme of mass immigration to "rub the noses of the right" . Mandelson boasted that "we sent out search parties to lassoo immigrants back to the UK" And they did it because they said the indigenous population "had no where to go, politically"

So don't give me the austerity BS. The working class of Britain have effectively been in austerity for the last 40 odd years while we've been IN the EU. UNDER ALL COLOURS OF GOVERNMENTS. And towns like Burnley have been cleansed of decent paying jobs and it's workforce been forced to join the race to the bottom in wages, opportunities and ambition.

But you'll not see any of this when you occasionally waft in to visit the turf will you Marty?

I bet you get cracking phone reception in that ivory tower of yours don't you.

You really will have nowhere to go when things get worse are you? No one to blame.

[martin_p]

And by the way Marty. I don't "claim to support those at the bottom."

I'm one of the feckers.

I’ve been down to my last few pence with no food in the cupboard before, I know what it’s like to be at the bottom.

[RingoMcCartney]

You really will have nowhere to go when things get worse are you? No one to blame.

And that's a reply.!?

When it comes to a few home truths.

You really have no answer Marty do you.

[martin_p]

And that's a reply.!?

When it comes to a few home truths.

You really have no answer Marty do you.

I honestly can’t be arsed with you. But if you can point to a time in the last 40 years when the poor were so dependent on food banks when at the same time as employment rates were relatively high I’ll start believing that austerity isn’t hurting.

[RingoMcCartney]

See that’s the thing with language. If you say something then people think that’s what you mean as they aren’t mind readers. So it doesn’t really matter what he meant as the response was to what he said.

That's the thing about being a pedantic ivory tower dweller. if you spent some time around a town you'd know what the common terms for various things are. Making it easier to accept a point in the spirit it was made. You don't have to a mind reader. Just reasonable. And that's where you and the nouveau Left that infest this site struggle.....

[martin_p]

That's the thing about being a pedantic ivory tower dweller. if you spent some time around a town you'd know what the common terms for various things are. Making it easier to accept a point in the spirit it was made. You don't have to a mind reader. Just reasonable. And that's where you and the nouveau Left that infest this site struggle.....

So if a person not from the town answers the point what is he/she supposed to say?

By the way you’re still using the word pedantic without really knowing what it means. Not a single person, other than you and your mate, would consider seeing the word ‘Polish’ and thinking it meant Polish as being pedantic.

[RingoMcCartney]

I honestly can’t be arsed with you. But if you can point to a time in the last 40 years when the poor were so dependent on food banks when at the same time as employment rates were relatively high I’ll start believing that austerity isn’t hurting.

And that is exactly my point you utter moron.

There are millions of workers in poverty pay. Why? One of the reasons is the devastating impact of an over supply of cheap foreign labour. Do you actually understand the basic law of supply and demand?

Do you know that thanks to an influx of low skilled labour. Legal and illegal. The ability for those least able to protect themselves have been forced to join the race to the bottom on wages.

You Marty, in your cosseted world haven't needed to fret about it though have you!? It hasn't directly affected you has it Marty!?

And let's not forget. When I posted a link showing some horrendous example of illegal people trafficking and modern day slavery. I said that ending free movement of people would help stop exploitation and people trafficking and modern day slavery. But oh No! Marty claimed he had evidence that ending free movement of people would NOT help to stop exploitation and people trafficking. Didn't you Marty!

And guess what? You still haven't been able to provide it from up in that lofty position of yours have you!?

Mike Ashley. Heard of him?

[RingoMcCartney]

So if a person not from the town answers the point what is he/she supposed to say?

By the way you’re still using the word pedantic without really knowing what it means. Not a single person, other than you and your mate, would consider seeing the word ‘Polish’ and thinking it meant Polish as being pedantic.

"Not a single person"

How out of touch are you!?

Rabbit hole.

It's a long long way from Burnley. Apparently.....

[Greenmile]

Head in sand as much as you want, but that's the core fundamental reason for the emergence of Brexit & the nuts & bolts that entail, embrace or ignore, that's upto you, I've got a Horlicks to drink, night.

I agree. People like you being blind and ignorant to cold hard facts and statistics and relying on blind faith instead is certainly one of the reasons for the emergence of Brexit.

[Greenmile]

It’s a bit xenophobic / prejudiced to refer to all Eastern Europeans as Polish, isn’t it? Surely Ringo isn’t saying everyone in Burnley is a xenophobe. Say it ain’t so.

[RocketLawnChair]

I wonder what'll happen to the likes of Ringo if there's a referendum on the final deal and Remain wins. Anyone think he'll practice what he's preached for the past 2 years?

How can Remain win a referendum on a final deal? We will still be leaving the EU hence not remaining in it. I would imagine any future referendum on a final deal will come under new banners outlining the detail of deal choices it certainly wont be Remain or Leave.

[JohnMcGreal]

Ringo is the first to lose his mind when anyone even hints that leave voters are stupid racists, yet here he is banging on about how those who disagree with him live in ivory towers with kept in clover lifestyles in their cosseted worlds.

[ClaretAndJew]

I live in Padiham, I'm from pretty low class. Single parent family, low skill jobs.

I have worked mostly minimum wage jobs my whole life until I've gone on to study, I have had zero hour contracts and temp contracts etc.

I've worked mostly in and around Burnley.

I voted remain.

My Mum (care assistant in a private care home) and my uncle (unemployed and has been most his life) voted leave.

[burnleymik]

Let's be honest, you can't leave the EU, they don't allow it.

How could we possibly sort out deals to organise the ports after brexit? The EU will NOT allow us, under their rules, to organise trade deals or deals with their members, whilst we are part of the EU.

The only possible way is to get a deal with the EU and we have seen how absolutely inflexible they are. It's basically mission impossible and it's solely because of the EU.

We can roll over non-EU deals to ease the burden, but all this scaremongering, blaming Brexit, is actually because the EU make it ridiculously hard to leave.

[Imploding Turtle]

How can Remain win a referendum on a final deal? We will still be leaving the EU hence not remaining in it. I would imagine any future referendum on a final deal will come under new banners outlining the detail of deal choices it certainly wont be Remain or Leave.

Quite easy. More people want to remain than leave under the terms of the deal available. That's how Remain could win a referendum on the final deal.

[martin_p]

Let's be honest, you can't leave the EU, they don't allow it.

How could we possibly sort out deals to organise the ports after brexit? The EU will NOT allow us, under their rules, to organise trade deals or deals with their members, whilst we are part of the EU.

The only possible way is to get a deal with the EU and we have seen how absolutely inflexible they are. It's basically mission impossible and it's solely because of the EU.

We can roll over non-EU deals to ease the burden, but all this scaremongering, blaming Brexit, is actually because the EU make it ridiculously hard to leave.

We can’t organise trade deals with EU members whether we’re a member or not. It’s a trading bloc, the whole world has to deal with the EU on that basis.

[burnleymik]

We can’t organise trade deals with EU members whether we’re a member or not. It’s a trading bloc, the whole world has to deal with the EU on that basis.

Yep, but the rest of it stands.

Shame that a mutually beneficial agreement, to help trade, can't be agreed. Instead it's essentially, agree to our terms or we will let you starve out. Well that is what will happen according to our incessant pro-remain media.

This will clearly hurt both sides, but the EU feel their principles are more important than their members.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo is the first to lose his mind when anyone even hints that leave voters are stupid racists, yet here he is banging on about how those who disagree with him live in ivory towers with kept in clover lifestyles in their cosseted worlds.

1 I'm concerned about the negative financial impact on the the People least able to protect themselves from the effects of mass immigrationn. I'm concerned about the divisive and corrosive effect mass immigration, on an historically unprecedented scale, has had on social cohesion, and on the ambition and life opportunities of the poorest in society. Which includes members of my close family.


2 I hate foreigners.

Can you please confirm that you can see the clear difference of the above two statements?

[martin_p]

1 I'm concerned about the negative financial impact on the the People least able to protect themselves from the effects of mass immigrationn. I'm concerned about the divisive and corrosive effect mass immigration, on an historically unprecedented scale, has had on social cohesion, and on the ambition and life opportunities of the poorest in society. Which includes members of my close family.


2 I hate foreigners.

Can you please confirm that you can see the clear difference of the above two statements?

I can! Only the second one is true

[RingoMcCartney]

I can! Only the second one is true

If only I'd have thought that some body with astonishing levels of wit may come back with a phenomenal response like that, when I posted the question. I wouldn't have posted. That really is me well and trully shot down eh! Totally nullifies the point I was making that does. Should have seen that one coming. Totally blind sided by the UTC message board intellectual behemoth. Strange though, no one was asking him.

Any way, back to reality.......

[JohnMcGreal]

1 I'm concerned about the negative financial impact on the the People least able to protect themselves from the effects of mass immigrationn. I'm concerned about the divisive and corrosive effect mass immigration, on an historically unprecedented scale, has had on social cohesion, and on the ambition and life opportunities of the poorest in society. Which includes members of my close family.


2 I hate foreigners.

Can you please confirm that you can see the clear difference of the above two statements?

As others have already pointed out, you don't seem at all concerned about the negative financial impact that Brexit will have on the people least able to protect themselves, so why should I believe that your concern about the economic effects of migration (which are actually positive) is genuine?

You then go on to blame immigration for holding back your family members and preventing them from having good life opportunities.

It's very hard to dismiss point 2 when you quite openly use immigrants as scapegoats for society's and your relatives problems.

So I can see the difference between points 1 and 2. It's just that I have my doubts over how much genuine concern you have for point 1, but I have fewer doubts about you on point 2.

[RocketLawnChair]

Quite easy. More people want to remain than leave under the terms of the deal available. That's how Remain could win a referendum on the final deal.

Remain was one of the options its not an actual Organisation. If we have a second referendum on a ' Final Deal' Remain cannot possibly win because Leave or Remain will not be the options.

[Jakubclaret]

Remain was one of the options its not an actual Organisation. If we have a second referendum on a ' Final Deal' Remain cannot possibly win because Leave or Remain will not be the options.

Remain or leave won't be entities, A completely different front will be respawned dIsbanding the old Format, think he's being purposely obtuse.

[Lancasterclaret]

Brexit minister says "we need to stockpile food and medicine" - That is the man whose job it is to run the Brexit negotiations, for the UK Government.

Brexiteers - "Project Fear from remainers"

Peak 2018

[kentonclaret]

Theresa May has openly admitted that the government is making contingency plans by stockpiling food and medicines.

How does that fact translate to "scaremongering"?

Only in the minds of Brexiteers.

[DustyBawls]

2016: Brexit will mean an extra £350m a week for the NHS.
2018: Try these 7 surprisingly edible recipes for squirrel meat.

[RingoMcCartney]

As others have already pointed out, you don't seem at all concerned about the negative financial impact that Brexit will have on the people least able to protect themselves, so why should I believe that your concern about the economic effects of migration (which are actually positive) is genuine?

You then go on to blame immigration for holding back your family members and preventing them from having good life opportunities.

It's very hard to dismiss point 2 when you quite openly use immigrants as scapegoats for society's and your relatives problems.

So I can see the difference between points 1 and 2. It's just that I have my doubts over how much genuine concern you have for point 1, but I have fewer doubts about you on point 2.

You simply don't get it do you John?

I've said I don't blame migrants for availing themselves of the opportunity to come here as part of the free movement of people. Not one iota.

However.

Many people I know would love to go to live in Canada, new Zealand, Australia. However they have a limited list of jobs that want filling and in the case of Australia certainly you have to show that you won't be a burden on the state. That's fair enough and I and everybody accepts it as fair. There's a name for that. It's a sensible managed immigration policy that matches the nation's needs and economic requirements without any detrimental effect on the population, their living standards and communities.


The "4 freedoms" goods services finance and people simply make a commodity out of human beings. As a former member of the Labour Party I think the commoditization of human beings is deplorable.

I'm not "blaming immigrants" I'm not "scape goating" anyone

I'm blaming the effects of unprecedented levels of mass immigration on living standards, wages, social cohesion and strains on public services.

Can you see the difference. No , I'll rephrase that.

DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

If you had a flood at your house. Would you be concerned about the the EFFECTS of the damage it caused. Or would you HATE water?

As for "the negative financial impact that Brexit will have on the people least able to protect themselves,"

They've had 40 odd years of EU membership to decide whether or not they thought it was a good thing. 17,400,000 decided it was bad.


You're so convinced by the predictions of economic Armageddon aren't you!? The very same ones that came around when they wanted us to join the single currency. The gullible believed that too!

[martin_p]

If you had a flood at your house. Would you be concerned about the the EFFECTS of the damage it caused. Or would you HATE water?

Well I’d put up some sensible flood defences (as we are entitled to do as part of the EU) not move to the desert!

[RingoMcCartney]

Well I’d put up some sensible flood defences (as we are entitled to do as part of the EU) not move to the desert!

That ship has sailed.

The country has voted to Leave the European Union.

Thanks for you belated input.

[aggi]

I've been on with my son. So I shared a 2 quid Pepsi with him. When you start accusing people of being drunk, it's obvious I've hit a raw nerve with my guess. That like nil desperandum you live quite a cosseted life and have a lifestyle unaffected by cheap foreign labour.

The "facts" you lot are using are SEVEN YEARS out of date.

Since the "facts" you hold so precious were produced there's been a noticeable increase in foreign accents around town. I'm starting to think that not a single one of you live in Burnley. If you did you'd have seen with your own eyes and ears the massive rise in what everybody calls "Polish" whether you like it or not.

I don't blame them from coming here, not one bit. But when ivory towered champagne socialists patronize others and me with their lofty pronouncements. Yet, they themselves live lives shielded from the worst effects of the over supply of cheap foreign labour, I'll point it out.

So you focus on SEVEN year old facts.

I'll point out the I'm alright Jack, **** the proles attitude you lot have.

Apologies, from reading your posts on Juncker I thought it was fine to accuse someone you've never met of being drunk. I didn't realise this only applied when you were the one suggesting people were drunk. To be honest, you'd have probably been better claiming you were drunk though, calling someone a nasty self centred man because they have the temerity to suggest that referring to all Eastern Europeans as Polish isn't correct is more than a bit weird otherwise.

As for all of the other ******** you're spouting, you seem to have a real hang-up about anyone who is slightly different to you.

Let's be honest, if you really cared about your fellow workers you wouldn't be pushing for something that multiple studies has shown will impact the most deprived areas the most (although I guess you don't really believe in that kind of thing).

You wouldn't be supporting a party that made it more difficult for poorly paid workers to take their employers to tribunal, made it more difficult to strike, filibustered a bill that would maintain current EU employment rights, want to scrap the working time directive, the agency workers’ directive, the pregnant workers' directive, want to make it easier to sack people.

But you are, you don't really give a **** about your fellow workers, you're just scared of these foreign people and the fact that it's no longer the 1970s (even though I'm pretty sure you never actually experienced them first-hand).

[RingoMcCartney]

Apologies, from reading your posts on Juncker I thought it was fine to accuse someone you've never met of being drunk. I didn't realise this only applied when you were the one suggesting people were drunk. To be honest, you'd have probably been better claiming you were drunk though, calling someone a nasty self centred man because they have the temerity to suggest that referring to all Eastern Europeans as Polish isn't correct is more than a bit weird otherwise.

As for all of the other ******** you're spouting, you seem to have a real hang-up about anyone who is slightly different to you.

Let's be honest, if you really cared about your fellow workers you wouldn't be pushing for something that multiple studies has shown will impact the most deprived areas the most (although I guess you don't really believe in that kind of thing).

You wouldn't be supporting a party that made it more difficult for poorly paid workers to take their employers to tribunal, made it more difficult to strike, filibustered a bill that would maintain current EU employment rights, want to scrap the working time directive, the agency workers’ directive, the pregnant workers' directive, want to make it easier to sack people.

But you are, you don't really give a **** about your fellow workers, you're just scared of these foreign people and the fact that it's no longer the 1970s (even though I'm pretty sure you never actually experienced them first-hand).

1. Anybody who thinks Drunker isn't p1ssed on the recent footage really isn't living in the real world.

And.

2 "You wouldn't be supporting a party that made it more difficult for poorly paid workers to take their employers to tribunal, made it more difficult to strike, filibustered a bill that would maintain current EU employment rights, want to scrap the working time directive, the agency workers’ directive, the pregnant workers' directive, want to make it easier to sack people."

You are wrong. I don't.

And by the way. New Labour did not repeal a single bit of the anti trade union legislation that Thatcher brought in.

3. "Impact the most deprived areas the most"

Do you mean to tell me that, after 40 odd glorious years of EU membership there are still areas of deprivation in the UK!? How is that possible? With all the "EU money" (we're net contributors so it doesnt exist) and "enrichment" that mass immigration has brought. ? Where are these "most deprived areas?" of which you speak. This must be xenophobic racist propaganda and lies. Surely.

Name some of them. And list the way they voted in the EU referendum.

[TheFamilyCat]

Hey Marty. I've got news for you. It's was those at the bottom that voted in their millions to leave. Those at the bottom that registered and voted for the first time in decades. Because it was their chance to give the political Establishment a big **** off. Places like Burnley. Keighley. Bradford, Hartlepool.

Turkeys voting for Christmas. I wonder if they'd all voted that way if they knew they'd end up worse off.

[RingoMcCartney]

Turkeys voting for Christmas. I wonder if they'd all voted that way if they knew they'd end up worse off.

And you can, without doubt, guarantee that they will be worse off can you?

Let's look at it from the other perspective. 17,400,000 believe that being IN the EU has made them worse off. They've had 40 odd years to make up their minds. But obviously you actually know what's best for them more than they do.

Fair enough.

[Paul Waine]

I'm intrigued by what we mean be "Eastern Europe" and how much of what is being referred to above might more properly be described as "Central Europe."

Yes, I know "East v West" made us think that anywhere on the Eastern side of the Berlin Wall and certainly all the countries within the Soviet Union "sphere of influence" i.e. "Warsaw Pact" must be in "Eastern Europe."

But, take a look at how Wikipedia defines the countries of Central Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Usually the countries considered to be Central European are Austria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland; in the broader sense Romania too, occasionally also Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg."

I've underlined Poland - a nation in Central Europe.


If you are interested in the geography of Central and Eastern Europe there's a useful map here:

https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/ ... pe-map.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Greenmile]

And you can, without doubt, guarantee that they will be worse off can you?

Let's look at it from the other perspective. 17,400,000 believe that being IN the EU has made them worse off. They've had 40 odd years to make up their minds. But obviously you actually know what's best for them more than they do.

Fair enough.

Have you considered that part of the reason they / you are “at the bottom” is that they lack education and critical reasoning skills (through no fault of their own in most cases, I’m sure) and therefore believe the crap fed to them by our intensely anti-EU media for most of that 40 odd years (I can’t believe folk like Burnleymik think our media is pro-remain - do they only ever read the Guardian and the Independent? It kind of backs up my point though). As such, people like TheFamilyCat actually do know what’s best for them more than they do? The same way that a parent knows that their toddler can’t just eat sweets all day.

Now I’m sure you will dismiss this as patronising ivory tower dwelling stuff, and you may be right, but that doesn’t make it any less true, and it’s the truth that matters, not avoiding hurting your feelings.

[Imploding Turtle]

Remain was one of the options its not an actual Organisation. If we have a second referendum on a ' Final Deal' Remain cannot possibly win because Leave or Remain will not be the options.

How do you know?

[burnleymik]

As others have already pointed out, you don't seem at all concerned about the negative financial impact that Brexit will have on the people least able to protect themselves,

Can you quantify this statement? You and others seem to be using it an awful lot, but with no real explanation of how or why.

[dsr]

Well I’m not the one supporting an economically suicidal Brexit which will hit those at the bottom the hardest.

You claim to support ‘those at the bottom’ but I haven’t heard one word of dissent from you on the austerity measures that have disproportionately effected those at the bottom or the benefit cuts that have left families depending on food banks. Now you want to make their lives worse. Even the most ardent a Brexiteer admits that the U.K. will take an economic hit when we leave. Who do you think that will hurt the most? Your concern for ‘those at the bottom’ only seems to peak when it can be used as an excuse to have a go at immigrants. So don’t pretend to care Wrongo, because your concern is very, very transparent!

If things have been getting consistently worse for 40 years so that the poor are at their lowest ebb in all that time, then isn't that evidence that the EU isn't the best option for the poor?

[burnleymik]

Have you considered that part of the reason they / you are “at the bottom” is that they lack education and critical reasoning skills (through no fault of their own in most cases, I’m sure) and therefore believe the crap fed to them by our intensely anti-EU media for most of that 40 odd years (I can’t believe folk like Burnleymik think our media is pro-remain - do they only ever read the Guardian and the Independent? It kind of backs up my point though). As such, people like TheFamilyCat actually do know what’s best for them more than they do? The same way that a parent knows that their toddler can’t just eat sweets all day.

Now I’m sure you will dismiss this as patronising ivory tower dwelling stuff, and you may be right, but that doesn’t make it any less true, and it’s the truth that matters, not avoiding hurting your feelings.

Pro Remain media:

Firstly the most power of organisations is the BBC and according to OFCOM that is where the majority of people get their news:

image (8).png (84.74 KiB) Viewed 2511 times

BBC were undoubtedly Pro-Remain: https://medium.com/@NoahCarl/in-the-lea ... 7233a8f2fc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For instance, of 4,275 guests talking about the EU on BBC Radio 4’s flagship Today programme between 2005 and 2015, only 132 (3.2 per cent) were supporters of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU
Left-wing Eurosceptic views have apparently been particularly marginalised:

There has also been more than a tendency to… downplay the significance of left-wing euroscepticism. In 274 hours of monitored BBC coverage of EU issues between 2002 and 2017, only 14 speakers (0.2 per cent of the total) were left-wing advocates of leaving the EU

On top of the BBC there were:

C4 News
ITV News
The Mirror
Evening Standard
Guardian
Independant
FT
Observer
Huffington Post
The Times


I would even claim that virtually all our TV media outlets supported Remain and have a majority of pro-remain guests on.

[RingoMcCartney]

Have you considered that part of the reason they / you are “at the bottom” is that they lack education and critical reasoning skills (through no fault of their own in most cases, I’m sure) and therefore believe the crap fed to them by our intensely anti-EU media for most of that 40 odd years (I can’t believe folk like Burnleymik think our media is pro-remain - do they only ever read the Guardian and the Independent? It kind of backs up my point though). As such, people like TheFamilyCat actually do know what’s best for them more than they do? The same way that a parent knows that their toddler can’t just eat sweets all day.

Now I’m sure you will dismiss this as patronising ivory tower dwelling stuff, and you may be right, but that doesn’t make it any less true, and it’s the truth that matters, not avoiding hurting your feelings.

Education? - Grammar school educated. HNC in business studies. 2:1 in business and finance. Qualified as a financial and mortgage advisor looking after high net worth clients. I voted Leave.

My daughter has just graduated with a first in psychology from York. She is struggling to find work that pays more than around 16k a year. She voted Leave FWIW. Clearly another "lacking education and critical reasoning skills"

"(I can’t believe folk like Burnleymik think our media is pro-remain - do they only ever read the Guardian and the Independent? It kind of backs up my point though)"

You forgot the Daily Mirror, the Sunday mirror, the Observer, the financial times, the Mail on Sunday, Radio 5, Radio 4, the BBC, channel 4, and the vast majority of London based journalists - James obrian, shelagh Fogarty, Victoria Derbyshire. Your flawed point is utter b******ks.

"As such, people like TheFamilyCat actually do know what’s best for them more than they do?"

Its exactly that condescending attitude that contributed to prompting many to vote Leave.

"Now I’m sure you will dismiss this as patronising ivory tower dwelling stuff, and you may be right, but that doesn’t make it any less true, and it’s the truth that matters, not avoiding hurting your feelings."

For once in your life, you're correct!

You are a patronising, self righteous and sanctimonious ****.. But because I'm the one saying it, doesn't make it any less true. After all, as some pontificating no mark once said, "it’s the truth that matters." not avoiding hurting your feelings."

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm sure you would!

Doesn't make it true though. I can't turn the tv on without seeing Brexiteers repeating unchallenged lies.

If the media properly scrutinised the Brexit supporters, then this would have died on its arse.